Funny that. I had my dead keyboard backlight replaced a few months back and I got my logic board replaced for this exact problem just last week. Total cost? About $600. That's a bit more than $350. Seems like you don't really understand economics. AppleCare is a MUST on MacBooks because parts are very expensive for them.
I agree. For me it was a new battery and logic board. My only regret is I can't buy another three years!
I completely forgot about the 8600M GT. I should have said, in the last five years has there been problems with nVidia but that statement could come back to bite me as well because we do not know how the 2012 rMBP will be a few years from now.
I had the same issue about 2 months ago. Only remedy was to replace the logic board for $550 ($350 if you send it out for repair through an Apple Store -- which I couldn't because it takes 3-4 days and this is a work machine).
I brought in examples from message boards at the time to show this was a bigger issue, but the store said there is no formal warranty program in place for early-2011 15" Macbook Pros so I would have to pay.
Now I see this.
I get you never know the failure rate from message boards (where only the problem cases speak out), but clearly this is a bigger issue than normal wear and tear.
I had a problem with the battery and it was later found to be a firmware issue so they did refund my $180 battery replacement fee after the fact. So Apple does make good on their mistakes. Nobody (no company) is perfect and there is not an unlimited warranty on anything.
But if this is a broader problem then Apple needs to make good for their loyal customers.
I had a GPU fail on a 2010 Pro (nvidia). The integrated worked fine, but whenever it would switch to the dedicated gpu, it would artifact and then crash the video card whenever i tried to play video and/or do anything in photoshop/lightroom.
It was (eventually) replaced by apple, and failed again about 8 months later. They replaced the entire computer with a 2011 AMD, and it lasted about 12-14 months before failing. Exactly the same every time. I get the feeling this is a "form over function issue" with the unibody enclosures not having enough cooling capacity.
Apple was throttling both GPUs and CPUs during the first couple years of the unibody to keep heat down (not sure about 2012 and 2013 models). I don't think they throttled them enough for the limited cooling they use with these computers! Otherwise maybe one of the numerous updates did something to whatever software/firmware was throttling them? The stages of the failure are very consistent with what happens if you put a high-end gaming GPU in a closed mid-tower and don't include any sort of cooling system.
It's one thing to try and point the finger at AMD or Nvidia, but I really think in this case, Apple has maybe put form a little bit ahead of function and these processors are just too "hot" for the unibody design. They've obviously had a hard time balancing the "specs" and putting top-of the line processors in their computers to satisfy the "specs" type consumers while also trying to make the computers as thin as possible. Maybe a less powerful/cooler running GPU would've been a better idea than throttling a hotter one?
I should note that about half the time, I use my computer with the lid closed and 2 external monitors + a keyboard, which doesn't help much with the heat issue. I'd love it if OSX would allow for having the computer "open", but without the built-in monitor running. Windows does this nicely in "projector mode", but OSX is sadly lacking this feature which means clamshell closed = lots of extra heat.
Actually NVidia had a huge problems in MBPs a few years ago. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the move to AMD was the result of that issue. In NVidias case it was a solder joint failure problem. We don't know what is up with the AMD failures but at this point they don't appear to be even close to what owners of those NVidia powered machine experienced.
It will be interesting to see what the root cause is with this stuff. it could be an assembly problem, an AMD design problem or a problem with TSMC processes.
Yeah, I'm one of the users screwed by that nvidia chip package problem. My MacBook Pro 3,1 is now running with no video at all, through screen sharing. This sucks a lot.
Why does there keep being GPU problems? Are these components just poorly engineered due to the quick turnover of the product on the market?
It's one thing to try and point the finger at AMD or Nvidia, but I really think in this case, Apple has maybe put form a little bit ahead of function and these processors are just too "hot" for the unibody design. They've obviously had a hard time balancing the "specs" and putting top-of the line processors in their computers to satisfy the "specs" type consumers while also trying to make the computers as thin as possible. Maybe a less powerful/cooler running GPU would've been a better idea than throttling a hotter one?
The 2012 NVidia GPUs do a better job and don't seem to overheat at all so from now on, the unibody enclosure shouldn't be a problem. I think they will have at least one model with Iris Pro this time. When you see the real-time performance, it's very close to the 650M/750M:
The gap widens to as much as 50% difference at higher quality there but NVidia has proprietary anti-aliasing that runs very quickly. Turning off anti-aliasing should help even it out a bit - they have to use the in-game presets for consistent comparisons. OpenCL performance is the same or higher. I could see them going Iris Pro in the whole MBP line and it would be a good move. Any performance hit would be negligible, it would run cooler, last longer on battery life and Intel's CPUs pretty much never fail.
IMO a 14" Retina Iris Pro MBP with a quad-core i7 for $1599 and a 16GB RAM option for $200 (it's soldered) would be a great laptop.
I just want to add that i always have been treated well by Apple when having an issue with an iPhone or mac or even a cinema screen for that matter. The reason why I continue to use macs is among others that the hardware delivers. In the 9 years I have been using mainly mac I only have had issues with one 2007 MBP (one ram slot ceased to work) and now this. And I have had plenty of MBP and Mac Pros in the studio.
I am looking forward to hear what their verdict is but I am pretty sure it is the gfx card. And hopefully the repair will not be too expensive.
Does anybody know if flat-rate repair programs covers the 17" MBP?
What bothers me most is not getting the applecare since the mbp has 2,5 years. Especially after reading about continuos issues with 15"/17" unibody motherboards.
The late 2011 MBP 15" that I have runs a lot cooler than the early 17"MBP. So hopefully it will not die on me in 6 months.
However the fried motherboard/gfx card issues seems to not be mbp only. I have two friends both with a 2012 mba 13" that had to get their motherboards replaced after a certain black screen and dead on reboot happening (Apple did the change at no cost - one even was more than 1 year old but was covered due to the 2 years EU warranty ).
Clearly it is not fair to conclude from such a small test audience. But it worries me if it is the choice of cheaper components that shortens the lifetime (think Samsung, using very cheap capacitors shortening the lifespan of your tv but keeps the price to a minimum).
Did anybody notice if the graphics on the 17" MBP looked interlaced? Mine had this interlace issue - every second line was a bit dimmer. ( just like the powerbook g4 1,67ghz some 7 years back...with ati gfx) Not in clear colors but in mixed colors it showed up all the time.
I've had the discrete GPU problem happen to me THREE TIMES already. And last time I got my computer back from depot, they swapped the screen assembly and put an incorrect one (lower res) on. All in all my computer has been in Apple's possession (and therefore, away from me) for a running total of about 6 weeks now. Completely unacceptable for a machine of this $.
Speaking as an IT technician that has to fix those $400 notebooks you're full of crap.
Failure rate of MacBook Pros are CONSIDERABLY less than the failure rate of a $400 laptop.
There's still the elephant in the room though. That $400 notebook is still running a crap OS... even with Linux on it (Yes I damn well went there).
How do you know, when you fix PC notebooks? Most people bring their Macs into Apple stores, or send them back to the company to get fixed. Why is every pro-Mac source actually recommending that people buy the extra $250+ warranty plan in case their Retina Macbooks bite the big one? As for failure rates....that only makes sense given that Apple holds a 6.7% share of the computer market, as opposed to 92.27% on the PC front. If your competitor sells 1,000,000 units in a year, and you sell 10,000, guess who is going to have a higher list of reported failures?
Nothing new. It's only "sporadic" failures. Tell me any other laptop won't have this sporadic failures?
2.5 yo laptop needs to be replaced anyway. $600 logic board replacement is reasonable for an over $1200 laptop.
Tell it to my wife who is still happily soldiering on with her rock-solid MSI G laptop that she bought in fall of 2008. Not a single hiccup, crash, lockup, or hardware issue.
I had the same issue about 2 months ago. Only remedy was to replace the logic board for $550 ($350 if you send it out for repair through an Apple Store -- which I couldn't because it takes 3-4 days and this is a work machine).
I brought in examples from message boards at the time to show this was a bigger issue, but the store said there is no formal warranty program in place for early-2011 15" Macbook Pros so I would have to pay.
Now I see this.
I get you never know the failure rate from message boards (where only the problem cases speak out), but clearly this is a bigger issue than normal wear and tear.
I had a problem with the battery and it was later found to be a firmware issue so they did refund my $180 battery replacement fee after the fact. So Apple does make good on their mistakes. Nobody (no company) is perfect and there is not an unlimited warranty on anything.
But if this is a broader problem then Apple needs to make good for their loyal customers.
You obviously werent' around during the 2008/2009 twin-year class action lawsuits against Apple for these very same GPU issues. Macbooks and iMacs were arriving by the truckloads to users who reported yellow-tinted or corrupted screens, or D.O.A. GPUs. They refused to fix these problems, prompting the class action lawsuit. Precisely one year later during the 2009 Christmas season, it happened AGAIN. Apple making good on their mistakes? Hardly. When something goes wrong, I expect my company to honor their warranties, not say "you were holding it wrong."
Nothing new. It's only "sporadic" failures. Tell me any other laptop won't have this sporadic failures?
2.5 yo laptop needs to be replaced anyway. $600 logic board replacement is reasonable for an over $1200 laptop.
I'm not sure that most of the affected users would consider their experiences "sporadic" - a machine that only boots to a pinstriped screen, or crashes whenever you run anything graphics-intensive can render a computer completely useless. I'm not sure the title of this thread really captures the experiences documented by thousands of posts over the last 3 years. Perhaps it's "sporadic" in that users are suddenly affected after months or years of ownership?
And while this is just getting more visibility now, there were plenty of affected users in 2011 and 2012 as well. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a $2000 laptop to need $600 repairs within a year or two after purchase. Personally, I also don't think a 2011 MacBook Pro should need replacing already - these are still very capable machines, and the hardware in them should last a lot longer than 2 years. Mechanical parts such as hard drives or fans may have a limited average lifespan, but a GPU/logic board that fails after a couple of years is not the quality of hardware that I'd expect to find in a $2000+ Apple laptop. Those parts should not rapidly degrade within the first few years of use, especially not in thousands of units.
All right, I will admit when I'm wrong. No one quoted the second post I made however. I had said that I believed nVidia hadn't had issues since 2008 but I was wrong there too as it was pointed out to me that the GeForce 330M had issues as well.
Im having the problem!!! Just picked it up today and decided not to spend the money besides the fact that I rely on the GPU to make a living (Architect / Int Designer) Hope they launch a Replacement Program ASAP
Comments
I agree. For me it was a new battery and logic board. My only regret is I can't buy another three years!
I completely forgot about the 8600M GT. I should have said, in the last five years has there been problems with nVidia but that statement could come back to bite me as well because we do not know how the 2012 rMBP will be a few years from now.
I had my logic board replaced under this;
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS4088
Mine has been rock solid. Watch it fail once my AppleCare expires in June 2014. Maybe they'll have a recall by then or something.
I had the same issue about 2 months ago. Only remedy was to replace the logic board for $550 ($350 if you send it out for repair through an Apple Store -- which I couldn't because it takes 3-4 days and this is a work machine).
I brought in examples from message boards at the time to show this was a bigger issue, but the store said there is no formal warranty program in place for early-2011 15" Macbook Pros so I would have to pay.
Now I see this.
I get you never know the failure rate from message boards (where only the problem cases speak out), but clearly this is a bigger issue than normal wear and tear.
I had a problem with the battery and it was later found to be a firmware issue so they did refund my $180 battery replacement fee after the fact. So Apple does make good on their mistakes. Nobody (no company) is perfect and there is not an unlimited warranty on anything.
But if this is a broader problem then Apple needs to make good for their loyal customers.
I had a GPU fail on a 2010 Pro (nvidia). The integrated worked fine, but whenever it would switch to the dedicated gpu, it would artifact and then crash the video card whenever i tried to play video and/or do anything in photoshop/lightroom.
It was (eventually) replaced by apple, and failed again about 8 months later. They replaced the entire computer with a 2011 AMD, and it lasted about 12-14 months before failing. Exactly the same every time. I get the feeling this is a "form over function issue" with the unibody enclosures not having enough cooling capacity.
Apple was throttling both GPUs and CPUs during the first couple years of the unibody to keep heat down (not sure about 2012 and 2013 models). I don't think they throttled them enough for the limited cooling they use with these computers! Otherwise maybe one of the numerous updates did something to whatever software/firmware was throttling them? The stages of the failure are very consistent with what happens if you put a high-end gaming GPU in a closed mid-tower and don't include any sort of cooling system.
It's one thing to try and point the finger at AMD or Nvidia, but I really think in this case, Apple has maybe put form a little bit ahead of function and these processors are just too "hot" for the unibody design. They've obviously had a hard time balancing the "specs" and putting top-of the line processors in their computers to satisfy the "specs" type consumers while also trying to make the computers as thin as possible. Maybe a less powerful/cooler running GPU would've been a better idea than throttling a hotter one?
I should note that about half the time, I use my computer with the lid closed and 2 external monitors + a keyboard, which doesn't help much with the heat issue. I'd love it if OSX would allow for having the computer "open", but without the built-in monitor running. Windows does this nicely in "projector mode", but OSX is sadly lacking this feature which means clamshell closed = lots of extra heat.
Yeah, I'm one of the users screwed by that nvidia chip package problem. My MacBook Pro 3,1 is now running with no video at all, through screen sharing. This sucks a lot.
Why does there keep being GPU problems? Are these components just poorly engineered due to the quick turnover of the product on the market?
The 2012 NVidia GPUs do a better job and don't seem to overheat at all so from now on, the unibody enclosure shouldn't be a problem. I think they will have at least one model with Iris Pro this time. When you see the real-time performance, it's very close to the 650M/750M:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7399/215inch-imac-late-2013-review-iris-pro-driving-an-accurate-display/3
The gap widens to as much as 50% difference at higher quality there but NVidia has proprietary anti-aliasing that runs very quickly. Turning off anti-aliasing should help even it out a bit - they have to use the in-game presets for consistent comparisons. OpenCL performance is the same or higher. I could see them going Iris Pro in the whole MBP line and it would be a good move. Any performance hit would be negligible, it would run cooler, last longer on battery life and Intel's CPUs pretty much never fail.
IMO a 14" Retina Iris Pro MBP with a quad-core i7 for $1599 and a 16GB RAM option for $200 (it's soldered) would be a great laptop.
I just want to add that i always have been treated well by Apple when having an issue with an iPhone or mac or even a cinema screen for that matter. The reason why I continue to use macs is among others that the hardware delivers. In the 9 years I have been using mainly mac I only have had issues with one 2007 MBP (one ram slot ceased to work) and now this. And I have had plenty of MBP and Mac Pros in the studio.
I am looking forward to hear what their verdict is but I am pretty sure it is the gfx card. And hopefully the repair will not be too expensive.
Does anybody know if flat-rate repair programs covers the 17" MBP?
What bothers me most is not getting the applecare since the mbp has 2,5 years. Especially after reading about continuos issues with 15"/17" unibody motherboards.
The late 2011 MBP 15" that I have runs a lot cooler than the early 17"MBP. So hopefully it will not die on me in 6 months.
However the fried motherboard/gfx card issues seems to not be mbp only. I have two friends both with a 2012 mba 13" that had to get their motherboards replaced after a certain black screen and dead on reboot happening (Apple did the change at no cost - one even was more than 1 year old but was covered due to the 2 years EU warranty ).
Clearly it is not fair to conclude from such a small test audience. But it worries me if it is the choice of cheaper components that shortens the lifetime (think Samsung, using very cheap capacitors shortening the lifespan of your tv but keeps the price to a minimum).
Did anybody notice if the graphics on the 17" MBP looked interlaced? Mine had this interlace issue - every second line was a bit dimmer. ( just like the powerbook g4 1,67ghz some 7 years back...with ati gfx) Not in clear colors but in mixed colors it showed up all the time.
I wish this topic would get more traction
Nothing new. It's only "sporadic" failures. Tell me any other laptop won't have this sporadic failures?
2.5 yo laptop needs to be replaced anyway. $600 logic board replacement is reasonable for an over $1200 laptop.
I had this issue 2 months ago. It started with some graphical glitches and it worsen by the week. In the end it would freeze minutes after a reboot.
Took to an Apple Store, PRAM reset got me an extra week until all the problems returned. Had to fork over £400 to get the motherboard replaced
Should have sold it on ebay after the PRAM reset.
Oh no.....wait, I'm wrong. There were TWO class-action lawsuits, two years in a row. My mistake.
Speaking as an IT technician that has to fix those $400 notebooks you're full of crap.
Failure rate of MacBook Pros are CONSIDERABLY less than the failure rate of a $400 laptop.
There's still the elephant in the room though. That $400 notebook is still running a crap OS... even with Linux on it (Yes I damn well went there).
How do you know, when you fix PC notebooks? Most people bring their Macs into Apple stores, or send them back to the company to get fixed. Why is every pro-Mac source actually recommending that people buy the extra $250+ warranty plan in case their Retina Macbooks bite the big one? As for failure rates....that only makes sense given that Apple holds a 6.7% share of the computer market, as opposed to 92.27% on the PC front. If your competitor sells 1,000,000 units in a year, and you sell 10,000, guess who is going to have a higher list of reported failures?
Simple math, Mr. I.T. Technician.
Nothing new. It's only "sporadic" failures. Tell me any other laptop won't have this sporadic failures?
2.5 yo laptop needs to be replaced anyway. $600 logic board replacement is reasonable for an over $1200 laptop.
Tell it to my wife who is still happily soldiering on with her rock-solid MSI G laptop that she bought in fall of 2008. Not a single hiccup, crash, lockup, or hardware issue.
I had the same issue about 2 months ago. Only remedy was to replace the logic board for $550 ($350 if you send it out for repair through an Apple Store -- which I couldn't because it takes 3-4 days and this is a work machine).
I brought in examples from message boards at the time to show this was a bigger issue, but the store said there is no formal warranty program in place for early-2011 15" Macbook Pros so I would have to pay.
Now I see this.
I get you never know the failure rate from message boards (where only the problem cases speak out), but clearly this is a bigger issue than normal wear and tear.
I had a problem with the battery and it was later found to be a firmware issue so they did refund my $180 battery replacement fee after the fact. So Apple does make good on their mistakes. Nobody (no company) is perfect and there is not an unlimited warranty on anything.
But if this is a broader problem then Apple needs to make good for their loyal customers.
You obviously werent' around during the 2008/2009 twin-year class action lawsuits against Apple for these very same GPU issues. Macbooks and iMacs were arriving by the truckloads to users who reported yellow-tinted or corrupted screens, or D.O.A. GPUs. They refused to fix these problems, prompting the class action lawsuit. Precisely one year later during the 2009 Christmas season, it happened AGAIN. Apple making good on their mistakes? Hardly. When something goes wrong, I expect my company to honor their warranties, not say "you were holding it wrong."
Nothing new. It's only "sporadic" failures. Tell me any other laptop won't have this sporadic failures?
2.5 yo laptop needs to be replaced anyway. $600 logic board replacement is reasonable for an over $1200 laptop.
I'm not sure that most of the affected users would consider their experiences "sporadic" - a machine that only boots to a pinstriped screen, or crashes whenever you run anything graphics-intensive can render a computer completely useless. I'm not sure the title of this thread really captures the experiences documented by thousands of posts over the last 3 years. Perhaps it's "sporadic" in that users are suddenly affected after months or years of ownership?
And while this is just getting more visibility now, there were plenty of affected users in 2011 and 2012 as well. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a $2000 laptop to need $600 repairs within a year or two after purchase. Personally, I also don't think a 2011 MacBook Pro should need replacing already - these are still very capable machines, and the hardware in them should last a lot longer than 2 years. Mechanical parts such as hard drives or fans may have a limited average lifespan, but a GPU/logic board that fails after a couple of years is not the quality of hardware that I'd expect to find in a $2000+ Apple laptop. Those parts should not rapidly degrade within the first few years of use, especially not in thousands of units.
Any chance we will see an extended repair program like the C2D Macbook Pro's from a few years ago?
Pretty disappointing to have 2 $3000 laptops in a row that need logic board replacements from faulty components.
*shrugs* It is what it is.
Hope they launch a Replacement Program ASAP