3 million growth (could be less, could be more depending on the channel inventory) for the best company in the world is something to be ashamed of. Apple doesn't need cheaper phones... In fact, Apple could sell even more devices, even more expensive, if those devices were made with the current and future necessities in mind, instead of looking at the past: A bigger screen!
IF they want growth (if) on the smartphone arena (and profits, not market for the sake of it), they need a slightly bigger screen for those that for some reason demand one hand operation as top priority, and another, even if more expensive, iphone line for the 50 million of us that preferred equally expensive devices from other OEMs because they are 100x better as mobile computers. (obviously phones smaller than 5.7", like the note).
Microsoft reported record earnings this month. Would you say MS is growing? If Apple sold even one more phone then lat year they technically grew, but that's not what I consider to be growth. If growth is in the single digits and less than the market, that isn't "growth"
Wall Street didn't have inflated expectations. They had reasonable expectations for growth. Do you really believe Apple had expectations for 6.7% growth? I don't understand how you could think these result are anything but disappointing.
You can't compare the overall growth of the phone market to Apple when Apple doesn't play in every segment. The segment that is growing is the low end, but no one has proven that the low end is profitable.
IMO, Apple's biggest worry should be the large percentage of revenues that come from one product - iPhone. They need something new or need to do something significant with the iPad to increase its share of the pie. It's never good when a company is too dependent on one revenue stream.
3 million growth (could be less, could be more depending on the channel inventory) for the best company in the world is something to be ashamed of. Apple doesn't need cheaper phones... In fact, Apple could sell even more devices, even more expensive, if those devices were made with the current and future necessities in mind, instead of looking at the past: A bigger screen!
IF they want growth (if) on the smartphone arena (and profits, not market for the sake of it), they need a slightly bigger screen for those that for some reason demand one hand operation as top priority, and another, even if more expensive, iphone line for the 50 million of us that preferred equally expensive devices from other OEMs because they are 100x better as mobile computers. (obviously phones smaller than 5.7", like the note).
Apple's fortunes are too dependent on the iphone IMO. I mean they a great quarter but because sales of one product didn't meant wall streets estimates the stock is down 8%. iPhone is over 50% of Apple's revenues. That's not a good thing. I'm curious to see what they will bring to market that can generate enough revenues to bring the iPhone dependence down. I can't see a smart watch or the $99 Apple TV box doing it.
You do realize that numbers can be manipulated by anyone. In the early days of the iPhone it was easy to have 50% growth YoY because there were much fewer iPhones. Now there are millions of iPhones. Growth of 6.7% can easily be the equivalent number of iPhones as 50% was a couple years ago. Apple is selling iPhones but it gets more difficult to sell the same percentage more every year. This is simple math.
The bottom line painful truth for stockholders and Cook makes this very clear by his actions is that they don't care about the stock. Cook and his executives have already cashed out their options as soon as they vested, holding very few options or none at all. They have made 10's and 100's of millions already. Their goal is to keep the company running. Maybe not growing but running. Great products are their goal. Not great numbers. Good for consumers who want their stuff but for shareholders not so great.
Doing a 100B plus buyback at this price as Icahn says is a no brainer. If you owned apple privately and it was you and one partner. The partner comes to you and says he'll offer you 20% more of his share for 8 times net profit you would be crazy to do it. Furthermore he tells you he'll finance the buyout for you at just 3%! This is how incredibly stupid Cook, Oppenheimer and the entire board are regarding this opportunity.
That said, perhaps they all see something nobody else does? A not very bright future for apple. Maybe they feel this is the heyday and bad times await so they do a token buyback to shut people up right now. What other explanation is there. They seem intelligent enough to not be able to understand how this is in fact a no brainer.
Icahn was almost right about the buyback. His original amount was too low. At 500/share apple should go to the finance community, borrow 250B at 3% (comes to 2% net after they expense the interest out) and buy back half the company. EPS would double to 85/share for 2014. A PE of just 10 which is all anyone will give them gets them to 850 and we'll exclude all cash or debt since no investor gives credit for either (yeah they are that stupid and so are the fund managers...really).
Agree completely. This is a stockholder issue (and I own Apple stock). I talked to an Apple engineer over the holiday break and he was genuinely excited about the product pipeline. I'm looking forward to more great Apple products, but that doesn't mean Apple is going to make more money. Shareholders were fine with Apple accumulating cash when Apple was growing. Well guess what Tim Cook, Apple isn't growing anymore and we want our money. The CEO works for the shareholders and we don't believe Tim can invest that 160 billion as well as we can. It is our money, not his. Give it back.
This is all such a game to the folks in Wall Street....
Pump up the stock for 2.5 months and tell all their clients they need it have it in their portfolio...
Then on record earnings & and sales tell this same clients they need to dump it ASAP (and they'll be happy to buy it back at $10 to $60 less than they sold it for)
I'd like to know just how much Carl Icahn profited on Apple over the last day - as has been said, "follow the money"
Could some analysts please start expecting sales of 1,000,000,000 iPhones per month? Then Apple stock could crash and I could afford to buy in. Thank you.
Umm, growth was 6.7%, down from mid twenties last year and down from like more than fifty percent the years before that. more importantly it is growing more slowly than the market. So yes, I'm certain the growth story in iPhone is over. Apple makes great phones, but the competition has caught up and people are not motivated by features like fingerprint recognition. Don't get me wrong, owning the most profitable segment of the market is a great thing, but that doesn't change the fact that the growth story is OVER, at least for the iPhone.
So what? Apple has an healthy business. "Growth" should not be the only variable in the analysis of Apple business. "Long term viability" should be considered too. And in this area, I'm pretty confident
Agree completely. This is a stockholder issue (and I own Apple stock). I talked to an Apple engineer over the holiday break and he was genuinely excited about the product pipeline. I'm looking forward to more great Apple products, but that doesn't mean Apple is going to make more money. Shareholders were fine with Apple accumulating cash when Apple was growing. Well guess what Tim Cook, Apple isn't growing anymore and we want our money. The CEO works for the shareholders and we don't believe Tim can invest that 160 billion as well as we can. It is our money, not his. Give it back.
Actually, Apple admitted that it misjudged iPhone 5C sales. That isn't wall street's miscalculation, it's Apple's miscalculation. It was obvious to me that the 5c was priced too high. I understand that Apple didn't want to lose margin. However, this is the classic big business trap....making too much money, can't pivot. Apple will continue to make boatloads of money but growth of the iPhone is over.
I'm looking to iPad for future growth, but it is much much slower than iPhone. iPad will take over the PC at the same rate the PC declines, which will be really slow.
The other interpretation is that they should have just made fewer iPhone 5c and more iPhone 5s at the launch date. Not having product in stock seems to have hit US sales. The risk with making a $400 iPhone 5c is that it cannibalizes sales. Apple, unlike Samsung, isn't in a position to seek market share for the sake of market share.
Actually, Apple admitted that it misjudged iPhone 5C sales. That isn't wall street's miscalculation, it's Apple's miscalculation. It was obvious to me that the 5c was priced too high. I understand that Apple didn't want to lose margin. However, this is the classic big business trap....making too much money, can't pivot. Apple will continue to make boatloads of money but growth of the iPhone is over.
I'm looking to iPad for future growth, but it is much much slower than iPhone. iPad will take over the PC at the same rate the PC declines, which will be really slow.
Relative to the 5S. I believe Cook did say the 5C did relatively better than the 4S in the same qtr last year.
We just have more solid evidence that the growth story at Apple has come to an end. It doesn't mean Apple makes bad products or that Apple is on the decline. It means it has tapped out its market. Since Apple doesn't care to compete in the low end of the market it can't continue to grow.
Agree completely. This is a stockholder issue (and I own Apple stock). I talked to an Apple engineer over the holiday break and he was genuinely excited about the product pipeline. I'm looking forward to more great Apple products, but that doesn't mean Apple is going to make more money. Shareholders were fine with Apple accumulating cash when Apple was growing. Well guess what Tim Cook, Apple isn't growing anymore and we want our money. The CEO works for the shareholders and we don't believe Tim can invest that 160 billion as well as we can. It is our money, not his. Give it back.
You want money, sell your stock. I'm a share holder as well and I demand access to see these top secret products. Apple shouldn't hide secrets from its owners.
I just have one word "bull". Even many stores close, call it the winter vortex. etc. etc. They are doing well concerning all the odds. man is 50M iphones. they are comparing it with what? samsung... adroit????? which model? The sales of S4 are ridiculous, hell man. Many companies are struggle to make sales. There has to be a point, when analyst make some reality check. there is 1 iphone (4s, 5c, 5s) 1 OS. for 50M I call it bull. The company made so much cash profit, and they are just checking how many phone are sold! That is the reason why SJ hate these part of Apple the stock market. But well is what it is!. And I am not a market geek, but it is billions for 3 phones, 3 models of ipads and it variations, 6 computers. etc. etc. make the calculator work.... wait. use your both hands and count the fingers.
The other interpretation is that they should have just made fewer iPhone 5c and more iPhone 5s at the launch date. Not having product in stock seems to have hit US sales. The risk with making a $400 iPhone 5c is that it cannibalizes sales. Apple, unlike Samsung, isn't in a position to seek market share for the sake of market share.
This is why I always believed that the 5c was meant as a complimentary phone to the 5s... not a phone that was in competition with the 5s. The 5c was meant for a different crowd, another market altogether.
... but the 5c didn't live up to those expectations and sales remained similar to Apple's other 2nd tier phones over the years.
Investors are not that far off this time around. What they see is a slowing in growth of Apple's iPhone sales (not a decrease, so the stock hasn't plummeted). Investors see that, and see that the iPad, while very successful, won't be able, alone, to generate that amount of growth in the future.
Add to that that Apple hasn't yet introduced new products in their lineup and you see why the stock has taken a dip.
Concern doesn't mean catastrophe, but nevertheless, this time around, I see the reasoning behind it and find it very rational as a concern.
In one, maximum 2 years, when the market of people who can afford a smartphone in like the iPhone is saturated, and the differences from one to the next model will be barely noticeable (like it has been between the 5 and 5s where the difference in speed is reduced), sales of the iPhone will decrease.
The stock won't suffer if Apple will have one or several other products to replace the lost revenue. But, for the time being, I don't see anything in this regard. Of course the iPad is a top seller, but not in the same league.
So you can replace a smashing hit with several top sellers, but not with only one of these.
Investors are not that far off this time around. What they see is a slowing in growth of Apple's iPhone sales (not a decrease, so the stock hasn't plummeted). Investors see that, and see that the iPad, while very successful, won't be able, alone, to generate that amount of growth in the future.
Add to that that Apple hasn't yet introduced new products in their lineup and you see why the stock has taken a dip.
Concern doesn't mean catastrophe, but nevertheless, this time around, I see the reasoning behind it and find it very rational as a concern.
In one, maximum 2 years, when the market of people who can afford a smartphone in like the iPhone is saturated, and the differences from one to the next model will be barely noticeable (like it has been between the 5 and 5s where the difference in speed is reduced), sales of the iPhone will decrease.
The stock won't suffer if Apple will have one or several other products to replace the lost revenue. But, for the time being, I don't see anything in this regard. Of course the iPad is a top seller, but not in the same league.
So you can replace a smashing hit with several top sellers, but not with only one of these.
yep. Right now Apple is the iPhone company. They need to change that dynamic. One product shouldn't be over 50% of your revenues. Especially in a market you don't have a monopoly on.
So what? Apple has an healthy business. "Growth" should not be the only variable in the analysis of Apple business. "Long term viability" should be considered too. And in this area, I'm pretty confident
Disagree here as well. Tim Cook's stubbornness with selling a low priced phone is going to hurt Apple long term. The long term story in phones are the services that you sell on top of the phone. Apple needs its platform to be big. The only way it can do that is by selling a lower priced phone that can compete in the market. I realize that taking a hit on margins will actually probably cause the stock to drop in the short term. However, I think in the long term having a large market share will be good for its services business like apps, iTunes, mobile payments, search, etc.
The sign of a good CEO is one that can see the future and do what is best for the company. Based on Tim Cook's response to failing with the iPhone 5C I really question his ability to lead the company. Essentially he is saying, we tried a different pricing structure and it failed so I'm just going to go back to making good products and hope it works out well for us. Talk about a lack of vision. Targeting the high end of the market was the right thing for Apple during the Steve Jobs years. However, it is damn obvious that Apple is in a different situation now and Tim needs to pivot. The "great product strategy" is going to suck for shareholders.
I'd hate to be Tim Cook right now. Wall Street wants his head on a platter. I wouldn't be surprised if we start hearing calls for Cook to be replaced. I think it's nonsense but it won't surprise me.
They’ve been calling for that since before he became CEO. He couldn’t care less about idiots. " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Originally Posted by ash471
This is a stockholder issue (and I own Apple stock).
That’s absolutely right. YOU are the issue. Not Apple.
I talked to an Apple engineer over the holiday break and he was genuinely excited about the product pipeline.
That’s proof that you should sell.
…that doesn’t mean Apple is going to make more money.
Yeah, they sure didn’t post 13 billion in profit in the recent past or anything.
Shareholders were fine with Apple accumulating cash when Apple was growing.
Which makes zero sense, but you guys are the ones shorting the fourth most successful quarter in human history, so you aren’t known for making sense.
Well guess what Tim Cook, Apple isn't growing anymore and we want our money.
Your money? What did you do for it? Did you come up with the product ideas? Did you design the products? Did you manufacture them? Did you do the coding? Did you figure out how to efficiently ship them? Did you hire the people responsible for any of these?
?Have you done any work whatsoever other than giving an initial investment?
No? Then shut up.
Do you similarly whine when a bank doesn’t increase your interest rate over time? “Oh, interest rates are staying the same; my money is only growing at an even rate; better fire the head of the bank!”
No. You shut up, take your money out, and go somewhere else that fits your needs. Thing about Wall Street is that no one promised you an increasing rate of growth even if you can have one, and the thing about a bank is that you’re not going to get an increasing rate of growth, but at least you won’t lose money. Unless it’s HSBC.
Comments
3 million growth (could be less, could be more depending on the channel inventory) for the best company in the world is something to be ashamed of. Apple doesn't need cheaper phones... In fact, Apple could sell even more devices, even more expensive, if those devices were made with the current and future necessities in mind, instead of looking at the past: A bigger screen!
IF they want growth (if) on the smartphone arena (and profits, not market for the sake of it), they need a slightly bigger screen for those that for some reason demand one hand operation as top priority, and another, even if more expensive, iphone line for the 50 million of us that preferred equally expensive devices from other OEMs because they are 100x better as mobile computers. (obviously phones smaller than 5.7", like the note).
IMO, Apple's biggest worry should be the large percentage of revenues that come from one product - iPhone. They need something new or need to do something significant with the iPad to increase its share of the pie. It's never good when a company is too dependent on one revenue stream.
You do realize that numbers can be manipulated by anyone. In the early days of the iPhone it was easy to have 50% growth YoY because there were much fewer iPhones. Now there are millions of iPhones. Growth of 6.7% can easily be the equivalent number of iPhones as 50% was a couple years ago. Apple is selling iPhones but it gets more difficult to sell the same percentage more every year. This is simple math.
Which is exactly what the other guy said.
Pump up the stock for 2.5 months and tell all their clients they need it have it in their portfolio...
Then on record earnings & and sales tell this same clients they need to dump it ASAP (and they'll be happy to buy it back at $10 to $60 less than they sold it for)
I'd like to know just how much Carl Icahn profited on Apple over the last day - as has been said, "follow the money"
Umm, growth was 6.7%, down from mid twenties last year and down from like more than fifty percent the years before that. more importantly it is growing more slowly than the market. So yes, I'm certain the growth story in iPhone is over. Apple makes great phones, but the competition has caught up and people are not motivated by features like fingerprint recognition. Don't get me wrong, owning the most profitable segment of the market is a great thing, but that doesn't change the fact that the growth story is OVER, at least for the iPhone.
So what? Apple has an healthy business. "Growth" should not be the only variable in the analysis of Apple business. "Long term viability" should be considered too. And in this area, I'm pretty confident
Agree completely. This is a stockholder issue (and I own Apple stock). I talked to an Apple engineer over the holiday break and he was genuinely excited about the product pipeline. I'm looking forward to more great Apple products, but that doesn't mean Apple is going to make more money. Shareholders were fine with Apple accumulating cash when Apple was growing. Well guess what Tim Cook, Apple isn't growing anymore and we want our money. The CEO works for the shareholders and we don't believe Tim can invest that 160 billion as well as we can. It is our money, not his. Give it back.
Would you have said that to S. Jobs?
Actually, Apple admitted that it misjudged iPhone 5C sales. That isn't wall street's miscalculation, it's Apple's miscalculation. It was obvious to me that the 5c was priced too high. I understand that Apple didn't want to lose margin. However, this is the classic big business trap....making too much money, can't pivot. Apple will continue to make boatloads of money but growth of the iPhone is over.
I'm looking to iPad for future growth, but it is much much slower than iPhone. iPad will take over the PC at the same rate the PC declines, which will be really slow.
The other interpretation is that they should have just made fewer iPhone 5c and more iPhone 5s at the launch date. Not having product in stock seems to have hit US sales. The risk with making a $400 iPhone 5c is that it cannibalizes sales. Apple, unlike Samsung, isn't in a position to seek market share for the sake of market share.
Would you have said that to S. Jobs?
Didn't have to.
Relative to the 5S. I believe Cook did say the 5C did relatively better than the 4S in the same qtr last year.
China Mobile
You want money, sell your stock. I'm a share holder as well and I demand access to see these top secret products. Apple shouldn't hide secrets from its owners.
The other interpretation is that they should have just made fewer iPhone 5c and more iPhone 5s at the launch date. Not having product in stock seems to have hit US sales. The risk with making a $400 iPhone 5c is that it cannibalizes sales. Apple, unlike Samsung, isn't in a position to seek market share for the sake of market share.
This is why I always believed that the 5c was meant as a complimentary phone to the 5s... not a phone that was in competition with the 5s. The 5c was meant for a different crowd, another market altogether.
... but the 5c didn't live up to those expectations and sales remained similar to Apple's other 2nd tier phones over the years.
Add to that that Apple hasn't yet introduced new products in their lineup and you see why the stock has taken a dip.
Concern doesn't mean catastrophe, but nevertheless, this time around, I see the reasoning behind it and find it very rational as a concern.
In one, maximum 2 years, when the market of people who can afford a smartphone in like the iPhone is saturated, and the differences from one to the next model will be barely noticeable (like it has been between the 5 and 5s where the difference in speed is reduced), sales of the iPhone will decrease.
The stock won't suffer if Apple will have one or several other products to replace the lost revenue. But, for the time being, I don't see anything in this regard. Of course the iPad is a top seller, but not in the same league.
So you can replace a smashing hit with several top sellers, but not with only one of these.
no more calls. we have a winner.
So what? Apple has an healthy business. "Growth" should not be the only variable in the analysis of Apple business. "Long term viability" should be considered too. And in this area, I'm pretty confident
Disagree here as well. Tim Cook's stubbornness with selling a low priced phone is going to hurt Apple long term. The long term story in phones are the services that you sell on top of the phone. Apple needs its platform to be big. The only way it can do that is by selling a lower priced phone that can compete in the market. I realize that taking a hit on margins will actually probably cause the stock to drop in the short term. However, I think in the long term having a large market share will be good for its services business like apps, iTunes, mobile payments, search, etc.
The sign of a good CEO is one that can see the future and do what is best for the company. Based on Tim Cook's response to failing with the iPhone 5C I really question his ability to lead the company. Essentially he is saying, we tried a different pricing structure and it failed so I'm just going to go back to making good products and hope it works out well for us. Talk about a lack of vision. Targeting the high end of the market was the right thing for Apple during the Steve Jobs years. However, it is damn obvious that Apple is in a different situation now and Tim needs to pivot. The "great product strategy" is going to suck for shareholders.
They’ve been calling for that since before he became CEO. He couldn’t care less about idiots.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
That’s absolutely right. YOU are the issue. Not Apple.
That’s proof that you should sell.
Yeah, they sure didn’t post 13 billion in profit in the recent past or anything.
Which makes zero sense, but you guys are the ones shorting the fourth most successful quarter in human history, so you aren’t known for making sense.
Your money? What did you do for it? Did you come up with the product ideas? Did you design the products? Did you manufacture them? Did you do the coding? Did you figure out how to efficiently ship them? Did you hire the people responsible for any of these?
?Have you done any work whatsoever other than giving an initial investment?
No? Then shut up.
Do you similarly whine when a bank doesn’t increase your interest rate over time? “Oh, interest rates are staying the same; my money is only growing at an even rate; better fire the head of the bank!”
No. You shut up, take your money out, and go somewhere else that fits your needs. Thing about Wall Street is that no one promised you an increasing rate of growth even if you can have one, and the thing about a bank is that you’re not going to get an increasing rate of growth, but at least you won’t lose money. Unless it’s HSBC.
Get over it and sell. There’s your money back.