I use a Toshiba. It runs my iTunes fine, unless Apple messes up the iTunes installer. I've had no problems with reliability.
I use a Dell Precision for work, it works fine as well. But for home use and decent pricing on Windows, I'll stay with Toshiba as my home Windows machine.
On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.
If I could not install Windows at all on a MacBook Pro, I would just switch to a Hackintosh instead. As a software engineer that writes multiplatform applications, it is just easier to be able to boot into the operating system of choice.
This likely due to EFI/UEFI. Apple is likely removing CSM and requiring Secure Boot. Windows 7 does not support Secure Boot and would require Apple to make a backward compatible video firmware for lack of CSM. I would expect to see this requirement on all future Macs.
On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.
Apple created & updates bootcamp for a reason. It generates sales, they're not a charity. If this feature did not add to their bottom line it wouldn't exist.
the number of affected mac users is small. The number of Windows users who would buy a Mac Pro only if it supported Win7 is probably smaller (zero... they would have a pile of Win7 systems in their closet).
It's nice fuel for the 'why did apple do this fire' but in the end, it's really not that impactful.
As noted, Apple is ruthless at not supporting a lot of things... the last thing you'd think they'd want to support is a legacy OS from MS. Whether it be a licensing, a HW/Firmware.
If it took 1 HW or SW developer off the cutting edge stuff that Mac HW should be working on... that's 1 too many....
Who cares? Windows 8.1 is much better than Windows 7, and you can boot to desktop by default and disable most of the metro stuff. Windows 7 was released in 2009, it's a 5 year old OS. There's no need for a Mac Pro to support that- and whoever has enough cash for a Mac Pro, and needs to run Windows on it for some reason, can easily pony up the dough for Windows 8. I can understand Apple not wanting to waste resource supporting multiple versions of an OS it doesnt maintain.
Apple created & updates bootcamp for a reason. It generates sales, they're not a charity. If this feature did not add to their bottom line it wouldn't exist.
But does it add to the new Mac Pro Bottom Line? Bootcamp has a purpose, and it's features are market driven, but is it's purpose to run every OS ever built? No. Time marches on.
VMware screams on my nMP with Windows 7. I'm not suggesting it is used for high end PC games but it runs X-Plane for Windows which isn't too shabby. I don't do this normally, it was just an experiment. For normal applications is faster than many PCs I would suspect.
I agree. I've been using VMware since the release 3.x days. As long as one is not using it for hardcore video games, my 2011 MBA runs Windows as fast, if not faster than most dedicated NEW Wintel boxes do. I don't think people realize that virtual machines have come a long way since the VirtualPC days we'd all like to forget.
Also, it says that Apple doesn't "support" Win7 on the Mac Pros. I wonder if it will still load under bootcamp just fine. I'm sure someone is going to try it.
I do agree with the prior poster though. The Mac Pro users are most likely getting it for work reasons, and I think it's stupid that Apple doesn't support Windows 7. Win7 is by-far the best of Microsoft's offerings. Windows 8 is a huge, steaming pile of crap. I used it for six months here at the office and gave up on it after six months. I tried again when 8.1 came out and while it's "better", it still nowhere near useable for the enterprise user. They should create two versions of Win8. A tablet version with Metro (if they must), and one for PC's with every piece of Metro stripped-out and keep it like the Win7 GUI all the time.
Who cares? whoever has enough cash for a Mac Pro, and needs to run Windows on it for some reason, can easily pony up the dough for Windows 8. I can understand Apple not wanting to waste resource supporting multiple versions of an OS it doesnt maintain.
They tend to prefer supporting just the latest version, which I can understand (DirectX 12 might be Windows 8 only for example just like DX11 wasn't made available for XP) but it forces people to pay Microsoft for OS upgrades. People who use Windows only do so because of the Windows monopoly on software. If the software that runs under Windows ran under the Mac side, nobody would need Windows. Forcing upgrades and lining Microsoft's pockets just promotes this. Apple should do everything they can to make the Windows empire as profitless as possible.
There's not much they can do though - if they didn't support 8 then Mac users might miss out on the latest software APIs; if they supported multiple Windows versions, they have to commit to providing more support for a competitor's OS than they probably want to. If VMWare or Parallels could get their software to work completely like native (no software failures at all like detecting non-native environments and graphics not working properly), that would make dealing with Windows so much better. Even if they can unload the GPU from the Mac and let the VM control it for certain instances and then hand it back, that would be fine.
Actually for me, being able to run Windows on a Mac was my tipping point to dive into the Apple world some years ago. I loved the OSX system but my job uses nothing but Windows programs so I couldn't justify buying a laptop that didn't help avoiding the need for 2 laptops.
Although I use Win7 maybe 10% of the time, that 10% is what generally pays my bills so Apple ripping out support would be an issue especially since 7 is still alive and kicking. Luckily I use Parallels so I can avoid that whole train wreck but it is stupid move by Apple nonetheless- Win8 is atrocious and anyone who says otherwise is in denial.
On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.
Because getting people to make the move from Windows to Mac is easier if they know they can run that one Windows-application if they absolutely need to. Oh, and don't forget about gaming, where the Mac still lags far far behind. Boot Camp gives the Windows user a security blanket. And that helps sales.
No need for a survey or study to point out the obvious.
Maybe I missed the sarcasm here, but this is probably Apple's way of telling MS, "ok, even with the best hardware money can buy, look how crappy your OS is."
Although they're usually not a manufacturer I would jump to, Razer's latest Blade laptop is considerably more powerful and less expensive than a MBPr. It even uses the similar MBP style chassis and has a 3200x1800 IGZO display.
Otherwise I find ASUS and Lenovo offer some great products with industry leading performance and reliability. Not so much a fan of Samsung, HP or Dell.
Everything you just wrote was wrong! sure there is something better than a Mac. the only problem that product doesn't exist!
Everything you just wrote was wrong! sure there is something better than a Mac. the only problem that product doesn't exist!
At first I thought you might just be a rapid Apple fanboy, but after thinking about it, you're more likely just a phony trying to ruin the reputation of Apple fans.
Although they're usually not a manufacturer I would jump to, Razer's latest Blade laptop is considerably more powerful and less expensive than a MBPr. It even uses the similar MBP style chassis and has a 3200x1800 IGZO display.
Otherwise I find ASUS and Lenovo offer some great products with industry leading performance and reliability. Not so much a fan of Samsung, HP or Dell.
Good luck trying to downgrade Windows 8, many manufacturers are not providing drivers for Windows 7 . And in the case of Samsung customers are told you are not allowed by doing something to the boot partition to make restoring only back to Windows 8 and any Windows 7 installations are unusable.
Everything you just wrote was wrong! sure there is something better than a Mac. the only problem that product doesn't exist!
That was not good enough let me put this way: if i go to a store and i want to buy a Mac but some guy starts offer me some suggestions that some PCs are better i'm gonna literally beat that guy
You could say Android it's better than iOS outside or over the internet but Windows pcs better than Mac you can only do it over the internet
Comments
I use a Toshiba. It runs my iTunes fine, unless Apple messes up the iTunes installer. I've had no problems with reliability.
I use a Dell Precision for work, it works fine as well. But for home use and decent pricing on Windows, I'll stay with Toshiba as my home Windows machine.
On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.
If I could not install Windows at all on a MacBook Pro, I would just switch to a Hackintosh instead. As a software engineer that writes multiplatform applications, it is just easier to be able to boot into the operating system of choice.
This likely due to EFI/UEFI. Apple is likely removing CSM and requiring Secure Boot. Windows 7 does not support Secure Boot and would require Apple to make a backward compatible video firmware for lack of CSM. I would expect to see this requirement on all future Macs.
-PopinFRESH
molehill.
the number of affected mac users is small. The number of Windows users who would buy a Mac Pro only if it supported Win7 is probably smaller (zero... they would have a pile of Win7 systems in their closet).
It's nice fuel for the 'why did apple do this fire' but in the end, it's really not that impactful.
As noted, Apple is ruthless at not supporting a lot of things... the last thing you'd think they'd want to support is a legacy OS from MS. Whether it be a licensing, a HW/Firmware.
If it took 1 HW or SW developer off the cutting edge stuff that Mac HW should be working on... that's 1 too many....
Who cares? Windows 8.1 is much better than Windows 7, and you can boot to desktop by default and disable most of the metro stuff. Windows 7 was released in 2009, it's a 5 year old OS. There's no need for a Mac Pro to support that- and whoever has enough cash for a Mac Pro, and needs to run Windows on it for some reason, can easily pony up the dough for Windows 8. I can understand Apple not wanting to waste resource supporting multiple versions of an OS it doesnt maintain.
Apple created & updates bootcamp for a reason. It generates sales, they're not a charity. If this feature did not add to their bottom line it wouldn't exist.
But does it add to the new Mac Pro Bottom Line? Bootcamp has a purpose, and it's features are market driven, but is it's purpose to run every OS ever built? No. Time marches on.
VMware screams on my nMP with Windows 7. I'm not suggesting it is used for high end PC games but it runs X-Plane for Windows which isn't too shabby. I don't do this normally, it was just an experiment. For normal applications is faster than many PCs I would suspect.
I agree. I've been using VMware since the release 3.x days. As long as one is not using it for hardcore video games, my 2011 MBA runs Windows as fast, if not faster than most dedicated NEW Wintel boxes do. I don't think people realize that virtual machines have come a long way since the VirtualPC days we'd all like to forget.
Also, it says that Apple doesn't "support" Win7 on the Mac Pros. I wonder if it will still load under bootcamp just fine. I'm sure someone is going to try it.
I do agree with the prior poster though. The Mac Pro users are most likely getting it for work reasons, and I think it's stupid that Apple doesn't support Windows 7. Win7 is by-far the best of Microsoft's offerings. Windows 8 is a huge, steaming pile of crap. I used it for six months here at the office and gave up on it after six months. I tried again when 8.1 came out and while it's "better", it still nowhere near useable for the enterprise user. They should create two versions of Win8. A tablet version with Metro (if they must), and one for PC's with every piece of Metro stripped-out and keep it like the Win7 GUI all the time.
They tend to prefer supporting just the latest version, which I can understand (DirectX 12 might be Windows 8 only for example just like DX11 wasn't made available for XP) but it forces people to pay Microsoft for OS upgrades. People who use Windows only do so because of the Windows monopoly on software. If the software that runs under Windows ran under the Mac side, nobody would need Windows. Forcing upgrades and lining Microsoft's pockets just promotes this. Apple should do everything they can to make the Windows empire as profitless as possible.
There's not much they can do though - if they didn't support 8 then Mac users might miss out on the latest software APIs; if they supported multiple Windows versions, they have to commit to providing more support for a competitor's OS than they probably want to. If VMWare or Parallels could get their software to work completely like native (no software failures at all like detecting non-native environments and graphics not working properly), that would make dealing with Windows so much better. Even if they can unload the GPU from the Mac and let the VM control it for certain instances and then hand it back, that would be fine.
Although I use Win7 maybe 10% of the time, that 10% is what generally pays my bills so Apple ripping out support would be an issue especially since 7 is still alive and kicking. Luckily I use Parallels so I can avoid that whole train wreck but it is stupid move by Apple nonetheless- Win8 is atrocious and anyone who says otherwise is in denial.
On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.
Because getting people to make the move from Windows to Mac is easier if they know they can run that one Windows-application if they absolutely need to. Oh, and don't forget about gaming, where the Mac still lags far far behind. Boot Camp gives the Windows user a security blanket. And that helps sales.
No need for a survey or study to point out the obvious.
Apple does really dumb shit sometimes.
Maybe I missed the sarcasm here, but this is probably Apple's way of telling MS, "ok, even with the best hardware money can buy, look how crappy your OS is."
Although they're usually not a manufacturer I would jump to, Razer's latest Blade laptop is considerably more powerful and less expensive than a MBPr. It even uses the similar MBP style chassis and has a 3200x1800 IGZO display.
Otherwise I find ASUS and Lenovo offer some great products with industry leading performance and reliability. Not so much a fan of Samsung, HP or Dell.
Everything you just wrote was wrong! sure there is something better than a Mac. the only problem that product doesn't exist!
Everything you just wrote was wrong! sure there is something better than a Mac. the only problem that product doesn't exist!
At first I thought you might just be a rapid Apple fanboy, but after thinking about it, you're more likely just a phony trying to ruin the reputation of Apple fans.
Get out fakeboy!
I'm primarily a Windows developer and I can tell you when I attend MS dedicated conventions, the majority of laptops are MBPs.
Apple does really dumb shit sometimes.
Why is it Apple's fault if Windows 8 is Microsoft's dumb shit.
Oh please post a picture of all those glowing Apples at a dedicated MS convention.
Although they're usually not a manufacturer I would jump to, Razer's latest Blade laptop is considerably more powerful and less expensive than a MBPr. It even uses the similar MBP style chassis and has a 3200x1800 IGZO display.
Otherwise I find ASUS and Lenovo offer some great products with industry leading performance and reliability. Not so much a fan of Samsung, HP or Dell.
Good luck trying to downgrade Windows 8, many manufacturers are not providing drivers for Windows 7 . And in the case of Samsung customers are told you are not allowed by doing something to the boot partition to make restoring only back to Windows 8 and any Windows 7 installations are unusable.
Everything you just wrote was wrong! sure there is something better than a Mac. the only problem that product doesn't exist!
That was not good enough let me put this way: if i go to a store and i want to buy a Mac but some guy starts offer me some suggestions that some PCs are better i'm gonna literally beat that guy
You could say Android it's better than iOS outside or over the internet but Windows pcs better than Mac you can only do it over the internet