I'm completely against racism and the exclusion of women. But the population is still made up of a white majority. And a large part of the women in the US still haven't even entered the workforce. So it does seem a little harsh for Mr. Jackson to say that the only reason for most senior officials in US companies being white and male, is racism and discrimination.
Well, sure, if you take out bits and pieces of his post.
If he had said. "I’d rather have all white men who can do the best job than “one of each flavor” who can also do as good of a job."
he didn't... he said 'happily racist' if all white men were on the board. Didn't say how they got there, didn't say why, no validation of the process... just said he'd be happily called that if that were the result. I try not to read much into what people say, but I also learned that their first direct thought is the most accurate one.
"I'm a very big believer in equal opportunity as opposed to equal outcome. I don't believe in equal outcome because unfortunately life's not like that. It would be a pretty boring place if it was. But I really believe in equal opportunity. Equal opportunity to me more than anything means a great education. Maybe even more important than a great family life, but I don't know how to do that. Nobody knows how to do that. But it pains me because we do know how to provide a great education. We really do. We could make sure that every young child in this country got a great education. We fall far short of that. I know from my own education that if I hadn't encountered two or three individuals that spent extra time with me, I'm sure I would have been in jail."
Yet Jesse Jackson's Rainbow coalition is predominantly black, as is the Black Caucus in Washington DC, the NAACP, etc. He preaches equality, but he can't practice it.
Well I think we should have a WET awards and TV station. I mean it's only fair right?
The BET is the perfect example of "hey we don't practice what we preach."
The fact that, especially for African Americans, several generations got no return on their sweat, and even now, a black man with a pristine college degree will more than likely lose out to a white guy with a felony criminal record is telling.
I have to call BS on that. At most companies anyone with a felony record never gets past the HR screening, so your assertion is clearly factually untrue.
The inclusion of 'rather have all white men... and if that makes me racist, I'm happily so' is a telling turn of a phrase.
No, not in the slightest, but feel free to throw your own prejudices into my argument and I’ll feel free to ignore it.
I read that as: I don't care about people not like me, as long as I get and keep mine, and I'll do whatever is necessary to do so'
That’s hilarious.
What's your definition of Racism?
Showing unjustifiable prejudice toward or against any one (or multiple) races to the detriment of all (or one) others.
What’s the definition of “unjustifiable prejudice”, you may ask?
Well, assuming the hiring of a quote majority unquote figure is, in itself, prejudice…
Originally Posted by paxman
Assuming that hiring a person of a different ethnicity (or of different sexual persuasion or sex for that matter), is tantamount to hiring "one of each flavour" who can't do the job is...
…your assumption and yours alone, based in absolutely nothing said or implied by me. So try again.
he didn't... he said 'happily racist' if all white men were on the board. Didn't say how they got there, didn't say why, no validation of the process... just said he'd be happily called that if that were the result. I try not to read much into what people say, but I also learned that their first direct thought is the most accurate one.
Reread his post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I’d rather have all white men who can do the best job than “one of each flavor” who can’t.
If that makes me racist, I’m happily so.
He is saying that if he is racist for hiring the best people for the job that just so happens to be all white people then he will just have to be labeled racist.
While we are at it .... lets also bring diversity into NFL , NBA as well
Why? Say something that at least makes some sense. The Caucasians have all the boardrooms locked up for themselves, so at least leave the sports arenas and fields to the minorities. I'd say that's only fair as the corporations have most of the wealth in America. Tim Cook is going to keep that $160 billion in his own pocket and he's making sure no minorities are ever going to get their hands on it.
My suggestion to Mr. Jackson is instead of complaining to companies about lack of diversity, he should tell young blacks that they should study as hard as they can if they want to be a tech executive. If there were a larger pool of qualified minorities to choose from, there would be more minority tech execs. That's not tech companies' fault.
The Rainbow Coalition is a rather silly name because a rainbow would suggest Jackson and his group support a variety of minorities which is never the case. How many boycotts has he threatened over Asian, Latino, gay, or women issues? The only time Jesse or Al choose to chime in is over perceived slights against blacks. There is no rainbow coalition. This is simply a group that does it's best to extort money from gullible companies as hush money. Didn't Microsoft just hire an Indian born man to be CEO? I believe Blackberry hired a Chinese person as their CEO. I would bet if you consider other minorities besides blacks, the tech companies he is targeting have a much more diverse workforce than most other industries simply because the majority of students graduating from California colleges are indeed minorities. Interesting how all other minorities appear to be invisible to Jesse.
Here is a quote from a very long time ago. Booker T. Washington saw the danger of people like Jesse Jackson over a 100 years ago.
"There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don't want the patient to get well." Booker T. Washington
Thanks for implying I believe otherwise, by the way. That goes over well with people–claiming things about them you cannot possibly know.
Racism Definition:
The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
"Theories of Racism" - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Post-cism Definition:
The belief that a thread poster possesses characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that post, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another post or posts.
"Theories of Post-cism" - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different post based on the belief that one's own post is superior.
I agree that firms should hire the best people for the job without regard to race, age, sex etc.
Which is what I suspect Apple does.
However, I also think that there are real inequities in society that need to be addressed, and that in far too many cases people who say what you said (and what I agree with) pretend those inequities don't exist or are opposed to every single idea for addressing them.
Yeah some people are born stupid, you don't expect them to get promoted or work their way up the corporate ladder. As to African Americans , how many are in the tech industry to begin with, especially the computing related areas? Not many from what I can see. I've meet a few mechanical and electrical engineers but few focused on this industry.
As to inequalities I really think you blow things out of proportion. I've meant many African Americans working in the trenches so to speak just like me. Like me many don't want to involve themselves in the corporate ladder climbing community.
So I think that if one rejects one idea, then there is some burden on the rejector to suggest an alternative.
The alternative is simple, get off your dead ass and work for it. That is if you really want it.
The alternative I suggest is to focus on economic inequality rather than racial/gender/etc inequality, and use mildly redistributionist policies to address those inequities. By "mildly redistributionist" I mean taxing the rich at a higher marginal rate than the middle class and poor, and using that money to support things like the earned income tax credit and education and health care for the poor. In other words, I support the types of policies that the mainstream Democratic party supports, and that the Republican party is constantly trying to eliminate.
This is exactly what is wrong with the country right now and why I reject this non sense. Frankly I'm not even a republican but do believe I have enough social experience that handouts solve nothing. In fact they create more problems than they eliminate. The worst result of such policies is the placement of idiots in positions they can't handle.
He is saying that if he is racist for hiring the best people for the job that just so happens to be all white people then he will just have to be labeled racist.
Thanks. I didn’t figure I had to say “just so happens”, but…
Originally Posted by GTR
Post-cism Definition:
The belief that a thread poster possesses characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that post, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another post or posts.
“Theories of Post-cism" - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different post based on the belief that one's own post is superior.
Next we’ll have trolls claiming we’re being opinionist (or, rather, paid-ist) for banning them.
Gotta Fill the pool. This isn't about taking some schmoe off the street and putting him on the Board. This is executive grooming. Large Corps pride themselves in their executive development (Apple, actually doesn't do what the military and GE do, which transfer their protege's into other divisions to get a feel of the 'whole company' - they are very 'up from the bottom' mode).
The problem won't be solved tomorrow. But the solution can be started today.
I agree with your, and that was my point. Lack of diversity on corporate boards is a symptom of lack of diversity at other levels of society. African Americans are less likely to complete HS, less likely to attend college, less likely to graduate from college, less likely to major in the sciences, etc. So why is it a surprise that tech companies don't have large number of African American developers, middle managers, and executives?
This is like arguing that the Nobel Prize in Medicine is racist because (I assume) most winners have been white or Asian.
Comments
[VIDEO]
A lot more White congressmen have done far worse... so what your saying is non-white congressmen are no different than white congressmen?
So they are qualified to sit on boards just like white ex-congressmen?
Well, sure, if you take out bits and pieces of his post.
If he had said. "I’d rather have all white men who can do the best job than “one of each flavor” who can also do as good of a job."
he didn't... he said 'happily racist' if all white men were on the board. Didn't say how they got there, didn't say why, no validation of the process... just said he'd be happily called that if that were the result. I try not to read much into what people say, but I also learned that their first direct thought is the most accurate one.
"I'm a very big believer in equal opportunity as opposed to equal outcome. I don't believe in equal outcome because unfortunately life's not like that. It would be a pretty boring place if it was. But I really believe in equal opportunity. Equal opportunity to me more than anything means a great education. Maybe even more important than a great family life, but I don't know how to do that. Nobody knows how to do that. But it pains me because we do know how to provide a great education. We really do. We could make sure that every young child in this country got a great education. We fall far short of that. I know from my own education that if I hadn't encountered two or three individuals that spent extra time with me, I'm sure I would have been in jail."
http://americanhistory.si.edu/comphist/sj1.html
http://www.theonion.com/articles/jesse-jackson-honored-for-providing-innercity-yout,505/
He's outdated:
Yet Jesse Jackson's Rainbow coalition is predominantly black, as is the Black Caucus in Washington DC, the NAACP, etc. He preaches equality, but he can't practice it.
Well I think we should have a WET awards and TV station. I mean it's only fair right?
The BET is the perfect example of "hey we don't practice what we preach."
The fact that, especially for African Americans, several generations got no return on their sweat, and even now, a black man with a pristine college degree will more than likely lose out to a white guy with a felony criminal record is telling.
I have to call BS on that. At most companies anyone with a felony record never gets past the HR screening, so your assertion is clearly factually untrue.
The inclusion of 'rather have all white men... and if that makes me racist, I'm happily so' is a telling turn of a phrase.
No, not in the slightest, but feel free to throw your own prejudices into my argument and I’ll feel free to ignore it.
That’s hilarious.
Showing unjustifiable prejudice toward or against any one (or multiple) races to the detriment of all (or one) others.
What’s the definition of “unjustifiable prejudice”, you may ask?
Well, assuming the hiring of a quote majority unquote figure is, in itself, prejudice…
…your assumption and yours alone, based in absolutely nothing said or implied by me. So try again.
he didn't... he said 'happily racist' if all white men were on the board. Didn't say how they got there, didn't say why, no validation of the process... just said he'd be happily called that if that were the result. I try not to read much into what people say, but I also learned that their first direct thought is the most accurate one.
Reread his post:
I’d rather have all white men who can do the best job than “one of each flavor” who can’t.
If that makes me racist, I’m happily so.
He is saying that if he is racist for hiring the best people for the job that just so happens to be all white people then he will just have to be labeled racist.
While we are at it .... lets also bring diversity into NFL , NBA as well
Why? Say something that at least makes some sense. The Caucasians have all the boardrooms locked up for themselves, so at least leave the sports arenas and fields to the minorities. I'd say that's only fair as the corporations have most of the wealth in America. Tim Cook is going to keep that $160 billion in his own pocket and he's making sure no minorities are ever going to get their hands on it.
/s
I'm sorry but the best people for the job can't be all of one race. Again, it's the opportunity that is missing.
That's your assertion that you're trying to label as a fact. Where's the data to support your assertion?"
Look at high school graduation rates: that's a very tough impediment.
The Rainbow Coalition is a rather silly name because a rainbow would suggest Jackson and his group support a variety of minorities which is never the case. How many boycotts has he threatened over Asian, Latino, gay, or women issues? The only time Jesse or Al choose to chime in is over perceived slights against blacks. There is no rainbow coalition. This is simply a group that does it's best to extort money from gullible companies as hush money. Didn't Microsoft just hire an Indian born man to be CEO? I believe Blackberry hired a Chinese person as their CEO. I would bet if you consider other minorities besides blacks, the tech companies he is targeting have a much more diverse workforce than most other industries simply because the majority of students graduating from California colleges are indeed minorities. Interesting how all other minorities appear to be invisible to Jesse.
Here is a quote from a very long time ago. Booker T. Washington saw the danger of people like Jesse Jackson over a 100 years ago.
"There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don't want the patient to get well." Booker T. Washington
Racism Definition:
The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
"Theories of Racism" - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Post-cism Definition:
The belief that a thread poster possesses characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that post, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another post or posts.
"Theories of Post-cism" - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different post based on the belief that one's own post is superior.
As to inequalities I really think you blow things out of proportion. I've meant many African Americans working in the trenches so to speak just like me. Like me many don't want to involve themselves in the corporate ladder climbing community. The alternative is simple, get off your dead ass and work for it. That is if you really want it.
This is exactly what is wrong with the country right now and why I reject this non sense. Frankly I'm not even a republican but do believe I have enough social experience that handouts solve nothing. In fact they create more problems than they eliminate. The worst result of such policies is the placement of idiots in positions they can't handle.
He is saying that if he is racist for hiring the best people for the job that just so happens to be all white people then he will just have to be labeled racist.
Thanks. I didn’t figure I had to say “just so happens”, but…
The belief that a thread poster possesses characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that post, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another post or posts.
“Theories of Post-cism" - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different post based on the belief that one's own post is superior.
Next we’ll have trolls claiming we’re being opinionist (or, rather, paid-ist) for banning them.
Satya Nadella is Indian and he's CEO of Microsoft.
Gotta Fill the pool. This isn't about taking some schmoe off the street and putting him on the Board. This is executive grooming. Large Corps pride themselves in their executive development (Apple, actually doesn't do what the military and GE do, which transfer their protege's into other divisions to get a feel of the 'whole company' - they are very 'up from the bottom' mode).
The problem won't be solved tomorrow. But the solution can be started today.
I agree with your, and that was my point. Lack of diversity on corporate boards is a symptom of lack of diversity at other levels of society. African Americans are less likely to complete HS, less likely to attend college, less likely to graduate from college, less likely to major in the sciences, etc. So why is it a surprise that tech companies don't have large number of African American developers, middle managers, and executives?
This is like arguing that the Nobel Prize in Medicine is racist because (I assume) most winners have been white or Asian.