Remember that old rumour about Preview coming to the next version of iOS. I didn't think it made a lot of sense at the time but if Apple adds a digitizer to the next iPad it would make a lot more sense as the annotation options become more usable with a stylus. Add tot hat a new frameworks and APIs it could make that a killer feature.
I'm pretty sure WWDC in 12 days will bring a very good response to this product. At least I really hope so, because i'd love to switch to iMac [whatever Apple responds to surface with], instead of MacBook Pro iPad. I could use the iMacs power, but I need a Notebook on the go and I use my iPad to draw, take notes etc.
In the field a separate keyboard is unusable most of the time, so you have to rely on touch and so your apps and OS must be good at that.
MS problem is that they try to support conflicting input methods like touch and mouse at the same time, and fail to see that only one at the time is valid and its even better to have only one.
I cannot even imaging being able to balance the kickstand, front edge of the SP3, and front edge of the keyboard on my lap, in an effort to replace a MBA. And there would *still* be no mouse or trackpad, which is second nature to me when using a keyboard. Having to reach up to touch the screen would be possible, but a very awkward motion. But mainly, my legs just are not long enough nor steady enough to balance all that equipment, and still hope to be productive. And if I'm going to be using a desk, then I don't need the cramped arrangement either. So the SP3 is a complete fail for me, in that regard. Gimme an iPad and an iMac (or MBA, if I'm going to be taking notes and working on my lap).
Does it really have more power? On paper, sure, it's a Core v ARM, but the OS and apps use a good deal of that before the user can do what they want.
LOL... Can you run VS2012 and SQL Server 2012 on your ipad? No? I can (and do) run them just fine on my Surface Pro - and that's the first gen with the i5.
I cannot even imaging being able to balance the kickstand, front edge of the SP3, and front edge of the keyboard on my lap, in an effort to replace a MBA. And there would *still* be no mouse or trackpad, which is second nature to me when using a keyboard. Having to reach up to touch the screen would be possible, but a very awkward motion. But mainly, my legs just are not long enough nor steady enough to balance all that equipment, and still hope to be productive. And if I'm going to be using a desk, then I don't need the cramped arrangement either. So the SP3 is a complete fail for me, in that regard. Gimme an iPad and an iMac (or MBA, if I'm going to be taking notes and working on my lap).
The surface keyboards all have trackpads. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they didn't? They even made improvements on the type cover for the SP3.
As for the ergonomics of touch on a laptop, from my experience you are wrong. The motion of reaching forward to touch is actually very natural. More so, than reaching backwards for a trackpad or sideways for a mouse. On a desktop, I agree with you - the screen is generally to far a way on a desktop. But, on a laptop or small device like the surface, the screen is close. It's actually sort of funny to watch my wife occasionally use someone else's non-touch device - touch has become so second nature that she often will reach and touch the screen and then take a few seconds to realize why nothing happened
LOL... Can you run VS2012 and SQL Server 2012 on your ipad? No? I can (and do) run them just fine on my Surface Pro - and that's the first gen with the i5.
1) SQL Server runs on ARM?
2) What sense does it make to run a server on a confused tablet? You can make the MBA — a comparable example — a server but why would you? This is no different than people running Adobe apps on a netbooks. Sure, it's technically possible but you look foolish when you use it as a talking point.
2) What sense does it make to run a server on a confused tablet? You can make the MBA — a comparable example — a server but why would you? This is no different than people running Adobe apps on a netbooks. Sure, it's technically possible but you look foolish when you use it as a talking point.
1) Of course not - but, you were asking if the surface was really more powerful. The answer is absolutely yes - the iPad has a great ARM processor - but, it is not comparable to a core i5 in computational power.
2) I'm a developer. Visual Studio and SQL Server are some of the tools of my trade. Having them available on my Surface, lets me do a little bit of work when I'm out and about. For me, the surface can and does act as a laptop replacement and a tablet replacement.
All, I can say is I'm glad my plans to get the Pro 2 got derailed - since, the Pro 3 is much more to my liking. The bigger screen will make a huge difference to me.
The surface keyboards all have trackpads. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they didn't? They even made improvements on the type cover for the SP3.
I was just looking at the picture, and a trackpad didn't register. I have only ever seen one Surface "in the wild" and it did not have a keyboard, so I've never seen or touched the keyboard. (But I see MBA's and iPads all over town.) Upon re-inspection of the photo, I do now see what is probably the trackpad--previously I just saw a large blue bezel. So I'll rescind my objection about lack of trackpad. I still cannot imagine using the whole cantilevered arrangement in my smallish lap, though. But I'm trying to envision using one, so give me credit for keeping an open mind!
1) Of course not - but, you were asking if the surface was really more powerful. The answer is absolutely yes - the iPad has a great ARM processor - but, it is not comparable to a core i5 in computational power.
2) I'm a developer. Visual Studio and SQL Server are some of the tools of my trade. Having them available on my Surface, lets me do a little bit of work when I'm out and about. For me, the surface can and does act as a laptop replacement and a tablet replacement.
All, I can say is I'm glad my plans to get the Pro 2 got derailed - since, the Pro 3 is much more to my liking. The bigger screen will make a huge difference to me.
1) I clearly asked about usability since iOS is much more efficient of an OS as well as being deigned for the HW just as their apps are more efficient and designed for the HW, which is not the case with Windows or its apps. Using SQL Server not only makes no sense in that discussion but hurts any argument you may have. It's like saying I can run Xcode on an 11" MBA with a Core-i5 processor. It's technically accurate but it's a horrible experience.
2) You're a developer that uses Visual Studio so neither iOS nor Mac OS X would work for you so, again, even considering an iPad makes zero sense for this false comparison. No one is saying that weird use case isn't valid, but don't try to make a case that this is some norm and that Apple doesn't "get it" for not supporting Visual Studio on the iPad.
3) Not only a bigger screen but a better aspect ratio for this type of device, but for this to be a market success we'll need to see giving up their tablets and notebooks in order to go all in with this device that is neither a good tablet or good notebook. There is no evidence to support that and it will likely never happen no matter how the HW evolves to allow MS to make a great device in terms of HW if it still has the bloated, inefficient Windows OS and apps for it. It's still not a good experience for a tablet and the HW isn't a good experience as a notebook replacement.
Not that I would instantly hate it - A<span style="line-height:1.4em;">ssuming that it is silent and doesn't rock the device itself. But it does mean moving pars and a higher chance of issues and failure, especially on a device with no seated orientation (but maybe so with Windows?) - something I am very happy Apple eliminated from their tablets.</span>
2) What sense does it make to run a server on a confused tablet? You can make the MBA — a comparable example — a server but why would you? This is no different than people running Adobe apps on a netbooks. Sure, it's technically possible but you look foolish when you use it as a talking point.
1) Of course not - but, you were asking if the surface was really more powerful. The answer is absolutely yes - the iPad has a great ARM processor - but, it is not comparable to a core i5 in computational power.
2) I'm a developer. Visual Studio and SQL Server are some of the tools of my trade. Having them available on my Surface, lets me do a little bit of work when I'm out and about. For me, the surface can and does act as a laptop replacement and a tablet replacement.
All, I can say is I'm glad my plans to get the Pro 2 got derailed - since, the Pro 3 is much more to my liking. The bigger screen will make a huge difference to me.
Wait 'til they come out with Xcode for iPad.
Running that in the 11-12" iPad model that throws it's screen to the 40" Sharp should be interesting...
1) I clearly asked about usability since iOS is much more efficient of an OS as well as being deigned for the HW just as their apps are more efficient and designed for the HW, which is not the case with Windows or its apps. Using SQL Server not only makes no sense in that discussion but hurts any argument you may have. It's like saying I can run Xcode on an 11" MBA with a Core-i5 processor. It's technically accurate but it's a horrible experience.
2) You're a developer that uses Visual Studio so neither iOS nor Mac OS X would work for you so, again, even considering an iPad makes zero sense for this false comparison. No one is saying that weird use case isn't valid, but don't try to make a case that this is some norm and that Apple doesn't "get it" for not supporting Visual Studio on the iPad.
3) Not only a bigger screen but a better aspect ratio for this type of device, but for this to be a market success we'll need to see giving up their tablets and notebooks in order to go all in with this device that is neither a good tablet or good notebook. There is no evidence to support that and it will likely never happen no matter how the HW evolves to allow MS to make a great device in terms of HW if it still has the bloated, inefficient Windows OS and apps for it. It's still not a good experience for a tablet and the HW isn't a good experience as a notebook replacement.
1) You have no idea what your talking about... VS and SQL Server perform quite well on my Surface with an i5 processor. Would I deploy such a thing to production? No. But, it is perfectly usable and adequate for development - which is what I use it for. If XCode can't run on an i5 than that must be one sucky tool.
You didn't say anything about usability - you simply asked if the hardware was really more powerful. Not only is it more powerful, you can do a lot more with it. The iPad is a great tablet. I have nothing against it or Apple - but, it has lots of limitations that don't exist with something like a surface pro. If your fine with that, I'm happy for you - it's all about what fits your needs.
2) I never said anything about apple supporting VS or SQL Server - I never would expect such a thing. Why are you twisting things here? You asked if the surface was really more powerful... My use case was simply to illustrate that is the case. Or do you think it would be possible to write applications that are resource and as processor intensive as these and have them run well on an iPad?
3) You talk about it not being good at being a tablet or a notebook - yet, you likely have never even touched a surface of any variety. I love my pro. I use it as a tablet and a notebook all the time. In fact, I find it way more convenient than my laptop - which I almost never touch anymore since I got it. It's way more portable than the laptop and just as powerful - there's nothing I can do on my laptop that I can't do on my surface. The trade off with the pro (first gen) is that it is heavier than an ios or android tablet - but, if find the kick stand really makes up for that. When I'm on the couch or lazing around, I can just fold back the cover and use it as a base for the kickstand and then set it in my lap, put it on my chest if I'm laying down, or whatever. There are always tradeoffs with technology products, and so yes there are some downsides to the pro - but, the upsides for me more than make up for those downsides. An ipad for me at this point would just be redundant - and a waste of money as it would just sit unused in a drawer somewhere, since it doesn't even have a really good web browser.
Comments
Does it really have more power? On paper, sure, it's a Core v ARM, but the OS and apps use a good deal of that before the user can do what they want.
Why?
Why?
because he hasn't got the SD adapter that sells for 29 bucks
Different use boils down to different input.
In the field a separate keyboard is unusable most of the time, so you have to rely on touch and so your apps and OS must be good at that.
MS problem is that they try to support conflicting input methods like touch and mouse at the same time, and fail to see that only one at the time is valid and its even better to have only one.
I cannot even imaging being able to balance the kickstand, front edge of the SP3, and front edge of the keyboard on my lap, in an effort to replace a MBA. And there would *still* be no mouse or trackpad, which is second nature to me when using a keyboard. Having to reach up to touch the screen would be possible, but a very awkward motion. But mainly, my legs just are not long enough nor steady enough to balance all that equipment, and still hope to be productive. And if I'm going to be using a desk, then I don't need the cramped arrangement either. So the SP3 is a complete fail for me, in that regard. Gimme an iPad and an iMac (or MBA, if I'm going to be taking notes and working on my lap).
Does it really have more power? On paper, sure, it's a Core v ARM, but the OS and apps use a good deal of that before the user can do what they want.
LOL... Can you run VS2012 and SQL Server 2012 on your ipad? No? I can (and do) run them just fine on my Surface Pro - and that's the first gen with the i5.
I cannot even imaging being able to balance the kickstand, front edge of the SP3, and front edge of the keyboard on my lap, in an effort to replace a MBA. And there would *still* be no mouse or trackpad, which is second nature to me when using a keyboard. Having to reach up to touch the screen would be possible, but a very awkward motion. But mainly, my legs just are not long enough nor steady enough to balance all that equipment, and still hope to be productive. And if I'm going to be using a desk, then I don't need the cramped arrangement either. So the SP3 is a complete fail for me, in that regard. Gimme an iPad and an iMac (or MBA, if I'm going to be taking notes and working on my lap).
The surface keyboards all have trackpads. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they didn't? They even made improvements on the type cover for the SP3.
As for the ergonomics of touch on a laptop, from my experience you are wrong. The motion of reaching forward to touch is actually very natural. More so, than reaching backwards for a trackpad or sideways for a mouse. On a desktop, I agree with you - the screen is generally to far a way on a desktop. But, on a laptop or small device like the surface, the screen is close. It's actually sort of funny to watch my wife occasionally use someone else's non-touch device - touch has become so second nature that she often will reach and touch the screen and then take a few seconds to realize why nothing happened
because he hasn't got the SD adapter that sells for 29 bucks
I think the question is related to why would you need an SD adapter in the first place? I.e. what possible need do you have for such an archaic thing?
1) SQL Server runs on ARM?
2) What sense does it make to run a server on a confused tablet? You can make the MBA — a comparable example — a server but why would you? This is no different than people running Adobe apps on a netbooks. Sure, it's technically possible but you look foolish when you use it as a talking point.
1) SQL Server runs on ARM?
2) What sense does it make to run a server on a confused tablet? You can make the MBA — a comparable example — a server but why would you? This is no different than people running Adobe apps on a netbooks. Sure, it's technically possible but you look foolish when you use it as a talking point.
1) Of course not - but, you were asking if the surface was really more powerful. The answer is absolutely yes - the iPad has a great ARM processor - but, it is not comparable to a core i5 in computational power.
2) I'm a developer. Visual Studio and SQL Server are some of the tools of my trade. Having them available on my Surface, lets me do a little bit of work when I'm out and about. For me, the surface can and does act as a laptop replacement and a tablet replacement.
All, I can say is I'm glad my plans to get the Pro 2 got derailed - since, the Pro 3 is much more to my liking. The bigger screen will make a huge difference to me.
The surface keyboards all have trackpads. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they didn't? They even made improvements on the type cover for the SP3.
I was just looking at the picture, and a trackpad didn't register. I have only ever seen one Surface "in the wild" and it did not have a keyboard, so I've never seen or touched the keyboard. (But I see MBA's and iPads all over town.) Upon re-inspection of the photo, I do now see what is probably the trackpad--previously I just saw a large blue bezel. So I'll rescind my objection about lack of trackpad. I still cannot imagine using the whole cantilevered arrangement in my smallish lap, though. But I'm trying to envision using one, so give me credit for keeping an open mind!
1) I clearly asked about usability since iOS is much more efficient of an OS as well as being deigned for the HW just as their apps are more efficient and designed for the HW, which is not the case with Windows or its apps. Using SQL Server not only makes no sense in that discussion but hurts any argument you may have. It's like saying I can run Xcode on an 11" MBA with a Core-i5 processor. It's technically accurate but it's a horrible experience.
2) You're a developer that uses Visual Studio so neither iOS nor Mac OS X would work for you so, again, even considering an iPad makes zero sense for this false comparison. No one is saying that weird use case isn't valid, but don't try to make a case that this is some norm and that Apple doesn't "get it" for not supporting Visual Studio on the iPad.
3) Not only a bigger screen but a better aspect ratio for this type of device, but for this to be a market success we'll need to see giving up their tablets and notebooks in order to go all in with this device that is neither a good tablet or good notebook. There is no evidence to support that and it will likely never happen no matter how the HW evolves to allow MS to make a great device in terms of HW if it still has the bloated, inefficient Windows OS and apps for it. It's still not a good experience for a tablet and the HW isn't a good experience as a notebook replacement.
Fans = power consumption.
Wait 'til they come out with Xcode for iPad.
Running that in the 11-12" iPad model that throws it's screen to the 40" Sharp should be interesting...
But it won't be Visual Studio so the iPad will still be a "toy" that isn't fit for "real" users.
But it won't be Visual Studio so the iPad will still be a "toy" that isn't fit for "real" users.
And the Apple camp will just keep saying that everything MS does is crap that's stuck in the 90s. It's an endless cycle of hate.
What camp does that make me when I say MS's developer documentation is as far from Apple's as Apple's is from Android's?
What camp does that make me when I say MS's developer documentation is as far from Apple's as Apple's is from Android's?
No idea. People should pick their own camps! Best one is the "all-platforms-have-their-ups-and-downs-and-people-should-use-what-they-like" camp.
1) I clearly asked about usability since iOS is much more efficient of an OS as well as being deigned for the HW just as their apps are more efficient and designed for the HW, which is not the case with Windows or its apps. Using SQL Server not only makes no sense in that discussion but hurts any argument you may have. It's like saying I can run Xcode on an 11" MBA with a Core-i5 processor. It's technically accurate but it's a horrible experience.
2) You're a developer that uses Visual Studio so neither iOS nor Mac OS X would work for you so, again, even considering an iPad makes zero sense for this false comparison. No one is saying that weird use case isn't valid, but don't try to make a case that this is some norm and that Apple doesn't "get it" for not supporting Visual Studio on the iPad.
3) Not only a bigger screen but a better aspect ratio for this type of device, but for this to be a market success we'll need to see giving up their tablets and notebooks in order to go all in with this device that is neither a good tablet or good notebook. There is no evidence to support that and it will likely never happen no matter how the HW evolves to allow MS to make a great device in terms of HW if it still has the bloated, inefficient Windows OS and apps for it. It's still not a good experience for a tablet and the HW isn't a good experience as a notebook replacement.
1) You have no idea what your talking about... VS and SQL Server perform quite well on my Surface with an i5 processor. Would I deploy such a thing to production? No. But, it is perfectly usable and adequate for development - which is what I use it for. If XCode can't run on an i5 than that must be one sucky tool.
You didn't say anything about usability - you simply asked if the hardware was really more powerful. Not only is it more powerful, you can do a lot more with it. The iPad is a great tablet. I have nothing against it or Apple - but, it has lots of limitations that don't exist with something like a surface pro. If your fine with that, I'm happy for you - it's all about what fits your needs.
2) I never said anything about apple supporting VS or SQL Server - I never would expect such a thing. Why are you twisting things here? You asked if the surface was really more powerful... My use case was simply to illustrate that is the case. Or do you think it would be possible to write applications that are resource and as processor intensive as these and have them run well on an iPad?
3) You talk about it not being good at being a tablet or a notebook - yet, you likely have never even touched a surface of any variety. I love my pro. I use it as a tablet and a notebook all the time. In fact, I find it way more convenient than my laptop - which I almost never touch anymore since I got it. It's way more portable than the laptop and just as powerful - there's nothing I can do on my laptop that I can't do on my surface. The trade off with the pro (first gen) is that it is heavier than an ios or android tablet - but, if find the kick stand really makes up for that. When I'm on the couch or lazing around, I can just fold back the cover and use it as a base for the kickstand and then set it in my lap, put it on my chest if I'm laying down, or whatever. There are always tradeoffs with technology products, and so yes there are some downsides to the pro - but, the upsides for me more than make up for those downsides. An ipad for me at this point would just be redundant - and a waste of money as it would just sit unused in a drawer somewhere, since it doesn't even have a really good web browser.