@nht: Maybe you should take time to proof read your work before slinging mud (at an author John Gruber aka Daring Fireball). You took the time to get the link and and reference it in your trashing of DED. Why not take the care to double check your work first? Besides, DED may not even wear a hat ¡
Peace.
First I did not sling mud at Gruber but called DED out for not giving him attribution.
Second, the article has been changed since I posted. The ORIGINAL (incorrect BTW) title was: "Bounden cancels iOS to Android port after finding many Google phones' gyroscopes don't work"
You can also see the first paragraph of the original article has been edited:
"Game Oven, the developer of Bounden, a novel dancing app making use of iPhone's gyroscope, has pulled its Android port after finding that even top tier devices using Google's platform have defective, inconsistent and in some cases "
Now it reads it as just delayed. The internet caches all sorts of stuff. If there's any doubt the original title is also on AI's twitter:
Guber links to DED all the time here on AI. Fair is fair and Gruber is often very complementary. Or perhaps it's Dalrymple that is often complimentary of DED. Or both. Either way it's not nice to leave out the source.
DED is very quick to defend himself. Noticed he hasn't said anything to me?
Next time I'll quote the entire article but it's somewhat annoying for others to do so since the comment was so short and the article long and had pictures. But if I remember maybe I'll take a screen cap. DED isn't the only one but AI is the only site I visit for Apple news besides DF and Loop.
Edit:
Here's a cache of a 2nd paragraph edit without the link tot he blog post from Google cache. Alas the older cache with the original text is gone so I cannot prove that the 2nd paragraph did not have the note about DF in it. Perhaps it even did but certainly the link was not.
In the current version "forced to delay" is a link to the blog post. In the web cache version it is not. I made my comment at 10:41 and this cache is from 12:12. Cityguide noted that the DF attribution existed at 10:54. The article was being tweaked the whole time. Not uncommon but lots of stuff changed from the title, to the wording in the first paragraph to links being added.
Mind you, I'm typing this on a MacBookPro (mid-2013 model), but I have to take issue with this crap:
"1. Android users have no friends, least of all a potential dance partner because they are so hateful towards other people"
My wife says you're full of it. "2. Android users are typically overweight so would have difficulty dancing gracefully"
I'm 6' even and weigh in at 168 lbs. "3. Bounden is a paid app, Android users mostly steal apps or download free apps, I believe a lot of them are baristas"
I don't have such an app, have no need for it, and I'm a Sr. Systems Administrator. I rarely pay for apps on my cheap little Huawei, mostly because I find that very few of them are useful enough to be worth having. Then again, I'm not glued to my phone 24/7 either - the phone, Waze and corporate email are about the complete extent of what I use it for. "4. Android users are lacking in culture and respect for creativity so choreographed dance would be wasted on them"
Currently I'm halfway through re-reading Plato's Republic... for fun. I live in PDX, which has a boundless plethora of culture and music... and yes, this includes a wild variety of choreographed dancing.
Long story short? Generalization of this order makes you look dumb and uneducated, and you should know better. I prefer Apple products where they make sense in my own personal use cases. For a solid-as-hell laptop and OS, well, see the beginning of this missive. For a tablet, a 16GB iPad Wifi-only model makes sense for me. For my phone? Screw it - the little Android device I have is cheap, works well, and does what I want it to do. If it gets stolen or broken, I lose a grand total of $149.00 of investment in the deal, and can easily go get another one. It's a fairly solid little device for what it does, and has lasted about 18 months and counting, so I'm not too awful worried about ROI on it by now.
Then you have proudly spouted ignorance for years. There is no doubt that there are bottom of the barrel Android products. At the same time there are numerous high end Android products. You may not wish to live in a world where the poor can afford a smartphone but that is a market that Android is able to service while also catering to consumers on the high end. If you can't recognize that quality, high end Android phones exist then you are a blind loyalist who is beyond hope. I personally am an Android user and the product works great for me. My phone does things for me that I could never do on an iPhone. Yet, I can appreciate an iPhone and recognize it is a great option for many consumers. I can acknowledge that there are things an iPhone could do for me that I will never be able to do on my Android phone, but for me Android is the better option. It takes a real mental midget to not be able to recognize that both platforms have their pluses and minuses and that there is not one universal answer for the superior product. Congratulations, you are that midget.
You have to understand in a perfect world, where Google and Samsung developed their own IP, you'd be correct, however the 'hate' towards Android from Apple fans is because Google and their software along with their hardware partner in crime, Samsung, ripped off Apple's IP. Hence the animosity. Just check out what you would be using made by Samsung running Android, before the iPhone came out and imagine it now, several years later. Perhaps you'd be using larger plastic keys by now?
4.4 works fine on a Droid Incredible, and doesn't slow it down like iOS 7 on an iPhone 4. You can do your own search for other 2010 phones that run it.
I am not claiming KitKat through ROMs to be a mainstream solution, but the claim above was that Android is engineered to make older phones obsolete and that iOS wasn't. I have presented evidence to the contrary.
I have several friends who now hate their iPhone 4 b/c of iOS 7. My wife took the high road and kept 6 on there until the 5s upgrade, which is a wonderful device.
This may have been possibly true with iOS 7.0, but is completely false since 7.1 (not sure about the exact version). iOS7 did not make the phones slower (it made them faster) but the time durations for animations were too long, which made the phone feel slower. With a subsequent update (again, not sure which version this was) Apple changed the time settings, and animations take much less time, making it a much faster and smoother experience than iOS 6.0.
Or you may be confusing their dislike for the new interface with it making the phone slower.
I am running iOS7 on my iPhone 4 and it is far faster.
So no, you have provided no such evidence. iOS 7 has made my iPhone 4 a much better phone than it was any day between when I bought it and installed iOS 7.
This may have been possibly true with iOS 7.0, but is completely false since 7.1 (not sure about the exact version). iOS7 did not make the phones slower (it made them faster) but the time durations for animations were too long, which made the phone feel slower. With a subsequent update (again, not sure which version this was) Apple changed the time settings, and animations take much less time, making it a much faster and smoother experience than iOS 6.0.
Or you may be confusing their dislike for the new interface with it making the phone slower.
I am running iOS7 on my iPhone 4 and it is far faster.
So no, you have provided no such evidence. iOS 7 has made my iPhone 4 a much better phone than it was any day between when I bought it and installed iOS 7.
There are tons of apple support threads to the contrary, and I have friends who hate their 4 now. Sounds like a fragmented experience.
As Mr. Cook said (in my signature) Android is crap. And, Android device makers build craps on top of crap but copy some stuff from Apple to make their craps look less crappy!
The good news for Android users is that they can say their phones have all the latest features, like 64 bit, a fingerprint reader, and a gyroscope. That these features don't actually work for most Android users is not important to them, otherwise they would have bought an iPhone instead.
Clearly Android is about being able to say, "me too" -- these features are useless status items whose lack of functionality does not lessen sales.
For me personally, I love that my iPhone 4S can run iOS7 flawlessly, and I look forward to upgrading like millions of others soon to a new iPhone that can actually use and integrate the above-mentioned cool capabilities/features.
Fandroid are ashamed to admit that their Gyroscope doesn't work but yet there are ok with Google stealing their data and with all that viruses, malware and lag found on their Cheap OS.
The good news for Android users is that they can say their phones have all the latest features, like 64 bit, a fingerprint reader, and a gyroscope. That these features don't actually work for most Android users is not important to them, otherwise they would have bought an iPhone instead.
Clearly Android is about being able to say, "me too" -- these features are useless status items whose lack of functionality does not lessen sales.
For me personally, I love that my iPhone 4S can run iOS7 flawlessly, and I look forward to upgrading like millions of others soon to a new iPhone that can actually use and integrate the above-mentioned cool capabilities/features.
Tomorrow i gonna buy an iPhone 4S my first smartphone i can't wait, unlike fandroids i do a research before i buy a smartphone
Tomorrow i gonna buy an iPhone 4S my first smartphone i can wait, unlike fandroids i do a research before i buy a smartphone
My son has a 4th gen iPod Touch, and will be getting his first phone in about three weeks. He did tons of research (obsesses about it). Uses Mom's iPhone a lot and Dad's Nexus 4 a lot. Any guesses as to his top pick?
Enjoy your phone though. You can't go wrong when pulling from the top of the heap. I think all the top-tier phones are a joy to use.
Then you have proudly spouted ignorance for years. There is no doubt that there are bottom of the barrel Android products. At the same time there are numerous high end Android products. You may not wish to live in a world where the poor can afford a smartphone but that is a market that Android is able to service while also catering to consumers on the high end. If you can't recognize that quality, high end Android phones exist then you are a blind loyalist who is beyond hope. I personally am an Android user and the product works great for me. My phone does things for me that I could never do on an iPhone. Yet, I can appreciate an iPhone and recognize it is a great option for many consumers. I can acknowledge that there are things an iPhone could do for me that I will never be able to do on my Android phone, but for me Android is the better option. It takes a real mental midget to not be able to recognize that both platforms have their pluses and minuses and that there is not one universal answer for the superior product. Congratulations, you are that midget.
Nice try.
I'm not some "blind loyalist". I actually want great, bonafide competition from others that are trying to make a difference. WebOS, Microsoft, Nokia, RIM... they all tried to make a difference to compete against Apple with REAL products, using their own stuff. That's great and I loved it.
Then there is the trash that Android is. No, I am not criticizing people that can't afford a high-end smartphone. What does irk me is that there are many people that do purchase an Android device, yet expect Apple reliability and/or expectations. Almost all of my Android-owning friends bought one as their first smartphone, only to switch to iPhones after the reality of just how bad Android is. Others wanted a "cheap" phone, and just accept that they lock up, freeze, lag, etc... because if it breaks (which they always do) then simply buy another cheap phone.
They buy an app and complain it doesn't work right. Blame the developer, but not the maker of the phone because they half-a$$ed on the hardware that perhaps the user didn't know about.
Blame Android fanboys that try passing off the countless garbage Android devices as "choice and competition". I'm so happy that Apple doesn't compete in that market and stain its reputation.
I wouldn't ever use an Android phone as my primary phone. Not just because I think Android is ripped-off IP, but also because it downright sucks for what my needs are for. We have a BYOD here at corporate and it's our job to get the devices to work. Most are iPhones. Guess which ones cause us to pull our hair out? Android phones, and many are Samsung's junk. They are just horrible to work with in the enterprise. So don't even imply I'm expressing ignorance. I use them way more than I want to.
My 2nd choice would be a Windows phone. At least Microsoft had a decent amount of sense to polish the OS more than Android. Shame on the entire Google ecosystem and its apologists. Raise your standards and expectations will ya?
This is why I can't stand Android on the whole, and it's users. The hardware is mostly cheap junk, even the ones that look like higher quality on the surface, and most of the users are not people I would ever choose to associate myself with, and this exemplifies my line of reasoning.
If you categorise people based upon the mobile operating system they use, then you have big problems, my friend.
And what's with the constant use of the word 'Fandroid'? When I used the word 'fanboy' in the context of an Apple user, my post was promptly deleted. Maybe if there wasn't such an intellectual vacuum at the core of this forum then you wouldn't need to apply such double standards.
You have to understand in a perfect world, where Google and Samsung developed their own IP, you'd be correct, however the 'hate' towards Android from Apple fans is because Google and their software along with their hardware partner in crime, Samsung, ripped off Apple's IP. Hence the animosity. Just check out what you would be using made by Samsung running Android, before the iPhone came out and imagine it now, several years later. Perhaps you'd be using larger plastic keys by now?
Can we possibly get passed the ripped off IP diatribe? Steve Jobs famously ripped off Xerox IP but who cares? Everyone is ripping off everyone. Is it blind luck Iphones have a drop down notification panel just like Android had for years. If future IPads run simultaneous apps side by side will you be up in arms at Samsung? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Both sides pick what is best to copy and in other areas make their own attempts at meaningful innovation. I hope this cycle continues. We get the best of everything. All of that being said, I am not naive. I am fully aware Android would be far different were it not for the Iphone's revolutionary design. But we would be remiss to not acknowledge that current IPhones would not be as great as they are were it not for Android.
Can we possibly get passed the ripped off IP diatribe? Steve Jobs famously ripped off Xerox IP but who cares? Everyone is ripping off everyone. Is it blind luck Iphones have a drop down notification panel just like Android had for years. If future IPads run simultaneous apps side by side will you be up in arms at Samsung? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Both sides pick what is best to copy and in other areas make their own attempts at meaningful innovation. I hope this cycle continues. We get the best of everything. All of that being said, I am not naive. I am fully aware Android would be far different were it not for the Iphone's revolutionary design. But we would be remiss to not acknowledge that current IPhones would not be as great as they are were it not for Android.
Can we possibly get passed folks like you rewriting history. Steve Jobs did not "rip off" Xerox in any which way, shape or form. He got a license, free-and-clear, from Xerox to do whatever they want, and Xerox got a bunch of Apple stock from it. Stop having a hissy-fit because the truth is not the way you want it to be.
I'll give Blackberry, Microsoft, (former)Palm much more respect in helping push forward mobile tech along with Apple because at least they tried developing their own OS from the ground up.
My son has a 4th gen iPod Touch, and will be getting his first phone in about three weeks. He did tons of research (obsesses about it). Uses Mom's iPhone a lot and Dad's Nexus 4 a lot. Any guesses as to his top pick?
Enjoy your phone though. You can't go wrong when pulling from the top of the heap. I think all the top-tier phones are a joy to use.
I want it to buy iPhone 5 but you know..and iPhone 5s is really expensive were i live 16GB 700 Euro.. so i have to go with iPhone 4s. it's good phone is more powerfull than Samsung S3 despite of benchmarks results, way better camera, and offcourse the design. even HTC One or Moto X owners got it admit the iPhone 4 looks better
Comments
@nht: Maybe you should take time to proof read your work before slinging mud (at an author John Gruber aka Daring Fireball). You took the time to get the link and and reference it in your trashing of DED. Why not take the care to double check your work first? Besides, DED may not even wear a hat ¡
Peace.
First I did not sling mud at Gruber but called DED out for not giving him attribution.
Second, the article has been changed since I posted. The ORIGINAL (incorrect BTW) title was: "Bounden cancels iOS to Android port after finding many Google phones' gyroscopes don't work"
You can see this in this aggregator link:
http://www.thenewscommenter.com/news/Bounden-cancels-iOS-to-Android-port-after-finding-many-Google-phones-gyroscopes-dont-work/113815 ;
You can also see the first paragraph of the original article has been edited:
"Game Oven, the developer of Bounden, a novel dancing app making use of iPhone's gyroscope, has pulled its Android port after finding that even top tier devices using Google's platform have defective, inconsistent and in some cases "
Now it reads it as just delayed. The internet caches all sorts of stuff. If there's any doubt the original title is also on AI's twitter:
https://twitter.com/appleinsider
Guber links to DED all the time here on AI. Fair is fair and Gruber is often very complementary. Or perhaps it's Dalrymple that is often complimentary of DED. Or both. Either way it's not nice to leave out the source.
DED is very quick to defend himself. Noticed he hasn't said anything to me?
Next time I'll quote the entire article but it's somewhat annoying for others to do so since the comment was so short and the article long and had pictures. But if I remember maybe I'll take a screen cap. DED isn't the only one but AI is the only site I visit for Apple news besides DF and Loop.
Edit:
Here's a cache of a 2nd paragraph edit without the link tot he blog post from Google cache. Alas the older cache with the original text is gone so I cannot prove that the 2nd paragraph did not have the note about DF in it. Perhaps it even did but certainly the link was not.
In the current version "forced to delay" is a link to the blog post. In the web cache version it is not. I made my comment at 10:41 and this cache is from 12:12. Cityguide noted that the DF attribution existed at 10:54. The article was being tweaked the whole time. Not uncommon but lots of stuff changed from the title, to the wording in the first paragraph to links being added.
Think of it as humor. Then it won't hurt so much.
You have to understand in a perfect world, where Google and Samsung developed their own IP, you'd be correct, however the 'hate' towards Android from Apple fans is because Google and their software along with their hardware partner in crime, Samsung, ripped off Apple's IP. Hence the animosity. Just check out what you would be using made by Samsung running Android, before the iPhone came out and imagine it now, several years later. Perhaps you'd be using larger plastic keys by now?
4.4 works fine on a Droid Incredible, and doesn't slow it down like iOS 7 on an iPhone 4. You can do your own search for other 2010 phones that run it.
I am not claiming KitKat through ROMs to be a mainstream solution, but the claim above was that Android is engineered to make older phones obsolete and that iOS wasn't. I have presented evidence to the contrary.
I have several friends who now hate their iPhone 4 b/c of iOS 7. My wife took the high road and kept 6 on there until the 5s upgrade, which is a wonderful device.
This may have been possibly true with iOS 7.0, but is completely false since 7.1 (not sure about the exact version). iOS7 did not make the phones slower (it made them faster) but the time durations for animations were too long, which made the phone feel slower. With a subsequent update (again, not sure which version this was) Apple changed the time settings, and animations take much less time, making it a much faster and smoother experience than iOS 6.0.
Or you may be confusing their dislike for the new interface with it making the phone slower.
I am running iOS7 on my iPhone 4 and it is far faster.
So no, you have provided no such evidence. iOS 7 has made my iPhone 4 a much better phone than it was any day between when I bought it and installed iOS 7.
This may have been possibly true with iOS 7.0, but is completely false since 7.1 (not sure about the exact version). iOS7 did not make the phones slower (it made them faster) but the time durations for animations were too long, which made the phone feel slower. With a subsequent update (again, not sure which version this was) Apple changed the time settings, and animations take much less time, making it a much faster and smoother experience than iOS 6.0.
Or you may be confusing their dislike for the new interface with it making the phone slower.
I am running iOS7 on my iPhone 4 and it is far faster.
So no, you have provided no such evidence. iOS 7 has made my iPhone 4 a much better phone than it was any day between when I bought it and installed iOS 7.
There are tons of apple support threads to the contrary, and I have friends who hate their 4 now. Sounds like a fragmented experience.
As Mr. Cook said (in my signature) Android is crap. And, Android device makers build craps on top of crap but copy some stuff from Apple to make their craps look less crappy!
And, Android fan boys love ...
The good news for Android users is that they can say their phones have all the latest features, like 64 bit, a fingerprint reader, and a gyroscope. That these features don't actually work for most Android users is not important to them, otherwise they would have bought an iPhone instead.
Clearly Android is about being able to say, "me too" -- these features are useless status items whose lack of functionality does not lessen sales.
For me personally, I love that my iPhone 4S can run iOS7 flawlessly, and I look forward to upgrading like millions of others soon to a new iPhone that can actually use and integrate the above-mentioned cool capabilities/features.
Fandroid are ashamed to admit that their Gyroscope doesn't work but yet there are ok with Google stealing their data and with all that viruses, malware and lag found on their Cheap OS.
Typical Droids!
The good news for Android users is that they can say their phones have all the latest features, like 64 bit, a fingerprint reader, and a gyroscope. That these features don't actually work for most Android users is not important to them, otherwise they would have bought an iPhone instead.
Clearly Android is about being able to say, "me too" -- these features are useless status items whose lack of functionality does not lessen sales.
For me personally, I love that my iPhone 4S can run iOS7 flawlessly, and I look forward to upgrading like millions of others soon to a new iPhone that can actually use and integrate the above-mentioned cool capabilities/features.
Tomorrow i gonna buy an iPhone 4S my first smartphone i can't wait, unlike fandroids i do a research before i buy a smartphone
Tomorrow i gonna buy an iPhone 4S my first smartphone i can wait, unlike fandroids i do a research before i buy a smartphone
My son has a 4th gen iPod Touch, and will be getting his first phone in about three weeks. He did tons of research (obsesses about it). Uses Mom's iPhone a lot and Dad's Nexus 4 a lot. Any guesses as to his top pick?
Enjoy your phone though. You can't go wrong when pulling from the top of the heap. I think all the top-tier phones are a joy to use.
Then you have proudly spouted ignorance for years. There is no doubt that there are bottom of the barrel Android products. At the same time there are numerous high end Android products. You may not wish to live in a world where the poor can afford a smartphone but that is a market that Android is able to service while also catering to consumers on the high end. If you can't recognize that quality, high end Android phones exist then you are a blind loyalist who is beyond hope. I personally am an Android user and the product works great for me. My phone does things for me that I could never do on an iPhone. Yet, I can appreciate an iPhone and recognize it is a great option for many consumers. I can acknowledge that there are things an iPhone could do for me that I will never be able to do on my Android phone, but for me Android is the better option. It takes a real mental midget to not be able to recognize that both platforms have their pluses and minuses and that there is not one universal answer for the superior product. Congratulations, you are that midget.
Nice try.
I'm not some "blind loyalist". I actually want great, bonafide competition from others that are trying to make a difference. WebOS, Microsoft, Nokia, RIM... they all tried to make a difference to compete against Apple with REAL products, using their own stuff. That's great and I loved it.
Then there is the trash that Android is. No, I am not criticizing people that can't afford a high-end smartphone. What does irk me is that there are many people that do purchase an Android device, yet expect Apple reliability and/or expectations. Almost all of my Android-owning friends bought one as their first smartphone, only to switch to iPhones after the reality of just how bad Android is. Others wanted a "cheap" phone, and just accept that they lock up, freeze, lag, etc... because if it breaks (which they always do) then simply buy another cheap phone.
They buy an app and complain it doesn't work right. Blame the developer, but not the maker of the phone because they half-a$$ed on the hardware that perhaps the user didn't know about.
Blame Android fanboys that try passing off the countless garbage Android devices as "choice and competition". I'm so happy that Apple doesn't compete in that market and stain its reputation.
I wouldn't ever use an Android phone as my primary phone. Not just because I think Android is ripped-off IP, but also because it downright sucks for what my needs are for. We have a BYOD here at corporate and it's our job to get the devices to work. Most are iPhones. Guess which ones cause us to pull our hair out? Android phones, and many are Samsung's junk. They are just horrible to work with in the enterprise. So don't even imply I'm expressing ignorance. I use them way more than I want to.
My 2nd choice would be a Windows phone. At least Microsoft had a decent amount of sense to polish the OS more than Android. Shame on the entire Google ecosystem and its apologists. Raise your standards and expectations will ya?
This is why I can't stand Android on the whole, and it's users. The hardware is mostly cheap junk, even the ones that look like higher quality on the surface, and most of the users are not people I would ever choose to associate myself with, and this exemplifies my line of reasoning.
If you categorise people based upon the mobile operating system they use, then you have big problems, my friend.
And what's with the constant use of the word 'Fandroid'? When I used the word 'fanboy' in the context of an Apple user, my post was promptly deleted. Maybe if there wasn't such an intellectual vacuum at the core of this forum then you wouldn't need to apply such double standards.
Vent your rage at this Apple site fragmentation is the result when costs are cut to the bone by manufacturers who are mainly losing money.
Good ol'DED. No hat tip to Gruber from where he probably first noticed this nor a link to the actual blog post. Which is here:
http://gameovenstudios.com/bounden-on-android-delayed/
Quote:
plagiarism *is* the sincerest form of flattery (or something like that). it's also the source of so many appleinsider articles.
In the 3rd paragraph: "However, as noted by Daring Fireball,..."
I always wondered why so many Android users don't know which way is up. Now I know.
"Game Oven was immediately attacked by a series of Android fans who accused the small developer of being "anti-Android" and "biased"
This just makes the answer easier.
So does not reading a thread before posting on it.
Can we possibly get passed the ripped off IP diatribe? Steve Jobs famously ripped off Xerox IP but who cares? Everyone is ripping off everyone. Is it blind luck Iphones have a drop down notification panel just like Android had for years. If future IPads run simultaneous apps side by side will you be up in arms at Samsung? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Both sides pick what is best to copy and in other areas make their own attempts at meaningful innovation. I hope this cycle continues. We get the best of everything. All of that being said, I am not naive. I am fully aware Android would be far different were it not for the Iphone's revolutionary design. But we would be remiss to not acknowledge that current IPhones would not be as great as they are were it not for Android.
Can we possibly get passed folks like you rewriting history. Steve Jobs did not "rip off" Xerox in any which way, shape or form. He got a license, free-and-clear, from Xerox to do whatever they want, and Xerox got a bunch of Apple stock from it. Stop having a hissy-fit because the truth is not the way you want it to be.
I'll give Blackberry, Microsoft, (former)Palm much more respect in helping push forward mobile tech along with Apple because at least they tried developing their own OS from the ground up.
My son has a 4th gen iPod Touch, and will be getting his first phone in about three weeks. He did tons of research (obsesses about it). Uses Mom's iPhone a lot and Dad's Nexus 4 a lot. Any guesses as to his top pick?
Enjoy your phone though. You can't go wrong when pulling from the top of the heap. I think all the top-tier phones are a joy to use.
I want it to buy iPhone 5 but you know..and iPhone 5s is really expensive were i live 16GB 700 Euro.. so i have to go with iPhone 4s. it's good phone is more powerfull than Samsung S3 despite of benchmarks results, way better camera, and offcourse the design. even HTC One or Moto X owners got it admit the iPhone 4 looks better