Well, it’s identical to what you’re wanting, except it’s real instead of fantasy.
No, it's not.
One has a Retina display, the other doesn't. One has a hard drive, the other uses proprietary solid state storage. One is smaller and lighter than the other. One is much less expensive than the other. There are so many really significant differences that it's impossible to know how much influence, if any, the optical drive had on any buyer's decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
And yes, we do know which is selling better.
Well, be sure to keep it to yourself. No one here wants to know which one wins or how you know.
So, what about the fact that the presence or absence of the ODD may be the LEAST significant difference between the two models, making the comparison pointless?
If they break down their notebooks and desktops in the end of October 10k annual report and their average selling prices for laptops have gone up, that would be an indicator that they are selling better than the previous models at the same price points and vice versa. That wouldn't say whether or not the cMBP sells better than the rMBP though.
Price wil pretty much always be the determining factor for sales volume. The rMBP is the better quality laptop - it has a high resolution IPS, laminated display with low glare, it has SSD storage and will be PCIe in the next version and has dual Thunderbolt ports.
The cMBP still looks like better value to a lot of people. You can get up to 16GB RAM 3rd party, SSD for $0.60/GB 3rd party, you get the extras included: optical, FW800, ethernet and to top it all off, it's $300-400 cheaper.
Does that mean they should go back to the cMBP design? No, it means they need to drop the prices on the rMBP, they should really offer 16GB options in every model with the possible exception of the Air and a 3rd USB port wouldn't go amiss.
Ideally for the transition, they'd have taken out the optical, FW800 and ethernet and added an SSD and IPS display for the same price but for whatever reason, that didn't happen. This happened with the Air too though. They moved from plastic to unibody metal, took out the optical and up went the price with slower processor. It took 3 years for the Air to hit the Macbook price point. I don't think anyone would rather that the plastic Macbook came back to replace the Air.
The usage of space is much better inside the rMBP:
They shaved off more than 1lb of weight too. Once the prices come down, it won't seem quite so bad.
Long on smart-ass mocking, short on any actual information, data and insight. You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
Thanks for nothing.
When you decide it’s time for mommy to stop holding your hand, feel free to look up the information for yourself, please. I’m not going to waste my time only to have it shot down for nothing more than being “from me”, via some made up excuse for why it’s invalid.
When you decide it’s time for mommy to stop holding your hand, feel free to look up the information for yourself, please. I’m not going to waste my time only to have it shot down for nothing more than being “from me”, via some made up excuse for why it’s invalid.
You want to run the argument, YOU bring the data.
Bullshit! I said you DON'T know which one sells better, and that even if you did, it says NOTHING about whether or not Apple customers actually want optical drives in their computers.
You're claiming to know something the rest of us don't, so let's have it. I call. Please, just explain how the **** the existence of both cMBP and rMBP indicate that Apple customers do not want optical drives. Obviously you can't, so please just drop the ridiculous "persecuted enigma" posturing. I'd challenge you to admit to making over-reaching claims, but I fear that honest self-evaluation will always be suppressed by your zealousness and desire for conflict. It's a shame, really, since you're obviously smart and witty. If you'd lighten up a ... lot, you'd probably be a lot of fun.
For now, knock off the condescending insults, would you? Act like an adult ferfuxsake.
The display is certainly quite nice, although it seems that the 13 inch rMBP needs Haswell to regain the smoothness of the cMBP; Apple quadrupled the number of pixels the GPU had to push without increasing GPU power proportionally.
"At 1.1 million units, the new MacBook Airs captured a 40% slice of the company's notebook business and accounted for just over a quarter of its Mac business as a whole."
If you added the Air to the rMBP numbers, they would be much higher than the machines with optical drives.
It's not really about customers wanting them or not, it's whether they are essential or not. Some people want printers but they aren't essential and don't have to be bundled with the machine. A display on the other hand is essential and it's a good idea to make it the best they can.
I agree that the rMBP is an improvement over the previous generation except for:
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for RAM,
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for storage,
- making it impossible for me to replace said storage when it inevitably wears out,
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for the replacement storage, and
- not offering a 17" version.
Other than that, it's gold!
If the 15" cMBP and rMBP had the same base price, you'd be looking at:
Even if the base price was $1899, that's still really competitive.
The second one has an IPS high-res display, more reliable soldered RAM and will be PCIe storage, which is much faster than SATA (it's roughly double the speed of 3rd party drives):
[VIDEO]
I agree entirely that not being able to replace your own storage may be an issue but as long as it lasts long enough into warranty, it should become cheap enough to replace by Apple. Eventually, all Apple's machines will use the same storage, including the Mac Pro so 3rd parties will have broken machines or spares that they can sell on eBay:
It's expensive now because it's new but in 2-3 years, these will be cheap enough for it to not be a problem. Once Apple can offer a standalone 512GB SSD replacement under $200, it's a non-issue. It's also possible to boot these days over Thunderbolt and USB 3 at speeds that feel like the internal.
I think that if they can bring an Iris Pro 15" rMBP out at $1899, the benefits of the cMBP become irrelevant. It does mean having to upgrade at the time of purchase but usually you'd want to do the upgrades immediately after buying anyway. For opticals, just get a cheap DVDRW/BR drive for $35:
Bullshit! I said you DON'T know which one sells better, and that even if you did, it says NOTHING about whether or not Apple customers actually want optical drives in their computers.
You're claiming to know something the rest of us don't, so let's have it. I call. Please, just explain how the **** the existence of both cMBP and rMBP indicate that Apple customers do not want optical drives. Obviously you can't, so please just drop the ridiculous "persecuted enigma" posturing. I'd challenge you to admit to making over-reaching claims, but I fear that honest self-evaluation will always be suppressed by your zealousness and desire for conflict. It's a shame, really, since you're obviously smart and witty. If you'd lighten up a ... lot, you'd probably be a lot of fun.
For now, knock off the condescending insults, would you? Act like an adult ferfuxsake.
I think there are EXACTLY twelve-trillion, four-hundred thousand and eight Angels on the head of a pin . . .
last time I checked all the kinda high end windows stuff were around that price or higher.
Could well be, but by using universally accepted standard form factors for RAM and storage I have the choice of paying their premium or buying from a third-party and doing it myself.
Since Apple solders in the RAM and uses their own format of storage media, the only option is to pay their egregious prices because there's no DIY alternative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaman
external hard drives exist for a reason you know...
Seriously? Lemme get this straight... we dumped optical drives, soldered in the RAM and went to a cost-prohibitive proprietary storage format all to reduce the size of the machine. How does it make sense to do all that to save a lousy eighth of an inch if the size and weight saving is more than offset by carrying around an external drive?
Computers with reasonable amounts of on-board storage exist for a reason, you know.
Could well be, but by using universally accepted standard form factors for RAM and storage I have the choice of paying their premium or buying from a third-party and doing it myself.
Since Apple solders in the RAM and uses their own format of storage media, the only option is to pay their egregious prices because there's no DIY alternative.
Seriously? Lemme get this straight... we dumped optical drives, soldered in the RAM and went to a cost-prohibitive proprietary storage format all to reduce the size of the machine. How does it make sense to do all that to save a lousy eighth of an inch if the size and weight saving is more than offset by carrying around an external drive?
Computers with reasonable amounts of on-board storage exist for a reason, you know.
Wow v5v, you're still at it - still droning on and on about "size" and stuff. TS pissed in your soup and you drank it. Get over it. You're the real "Energizer Bunny" - are all your 1200+ posts like this?
If you added the Air to the rMBP numbers, they would be much higher than the machines with optical drives.
Oh I get that. I'm not arguing for or against them or guessing at relative numbers. I was responding to the claim that people who buy Apple don't WANT optical drives. That might be true, but we don't have any way of knowing. *IF* there were a machine available with or without we could test that statement, but since all the machines without 'em are also different than the ones that do in ways that are much more significant, no reasonable comparison can be drawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
It's expensive now because it's new but in 2-3 years, these will be cheap enough for it to not be a problem.
I used to think so too, but now I have significant doubts about that. How long has the Air been available? How many replacement storage choices does have a buyer have? What is the cost of that storage compared to three years ago?
I'm not confident that cost and availability will improve appreciably over time. Apple doesn't have enough market share to attract major players and unless Apple can persuade other vendors to use their form factor we'll never realize the economies of scale we enjoy with 2.5" devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
It's also possible to boot these days over Thunderbolt and USB 3 at speeds that feel like the internal.
True, but all but irrelevant. Neither you nor I are going to accept being forced to boot a portable computer from an external drive because the internal storage is worn out.
Wow v5v, you're still at it - still droning on and on about "size" and stuff. TS pissed in your soup and you drank it. Get over it. You're the real "Energizer Bunny" - are all your 1200+ posts like this?
Have we met? Who the hell are you and why the hell should I care?
As for your suggestion that TS somehow "pissed in my soup" (whatever that means) how about you try reading the freakin' thread before spouting off, m'kay? It's painfully obvious that you only skimmed most of it and just jumped in at the end because you have no f?cking clue what you're talking about. If you wanna act all superior you should probably start with not looking like an idiot.
*IF* there were a machine available with or without we could test that statement, but since all the machines without 'em are also different than the ones that do in ways that are much more significant, no reasonable comparison can be drawn.
If all other parts were equal, the one with the optical would have to cost more as it has an extra part. I estimate the retail difference would be $100. If it was between $1799 for a machine without and $1899 for a machine with an optical drive, I doubt the majority would go for the optical. Price is typically the deciding factor in sales volume as it was with the anti-glare option. People weren't willing to pay the extra for anti-glare coating and so they eventually dropped it anyway. If you think the majority would pay the extra given that option for an optical, that's perfectly valid but I'd say the popularity of the Air suggests it's not an important consideration for buyers these days.
I used to think so too, but now I have significant doubts about that. How long has the Air been available? How many replacement storage choices does have a buyer have? What is the cost of that storage compared to three years ago?
3 years ago, moving from 128GB to 256GB cost $300 in the Air. It now costs $200. On top of that, the 128GB model used to be $1199 and is now $999. So if that continues, in 3 years, I'd expect 256GB in the entry Air with a $150 upgrade to 512GB and potentially 512GB entry in the MBP. This could mean a full 512GB drive replacement is $300 outside of warranty, but this is below 3rd party prices just now.
True, but all but irrelevant. Neither you nor I are going to accept being forced to boot a portable computer from an external drive because the internal storage is worn out.
For a laptop used as a desktop replacement, it wouldn't matter much but not for a laptop moved around and there is a shortage of ports as it is. A $200-300 replacement fee would be ok though. It would be nice if Apple sold parts like this on their store so that you wouldn't have to send your computer away for them to fix. If the SSD broke or started acting up, you'd just buy the SSD blade from the store, install it yourself and they can give a simple USB 3 or TB to PCIe adaptor to read the old drive if possible.
[...] I'd say the popularity of the Air suggests it's not an important consideration for buyers these days.
True. Still, it's funny when people who wave their hands dismissively at the notion of an optical drive suddenly realize, as my friend did yesterday, that some of the software he already owns is on DVD and installing it on his shiny new Air means having to buy an external borrow mine! " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
3 years ago, moving from 128GB to 256GB cost $300 in the Air. It now costs $200. On top of that, the 128GB model used to be $1199 and is now $999. So if that continues, in 3 years, I'd expect 256GB in the entry Air with a $150 upgrade to 512GB and potentially 512GB entry in the MBP. This could mean a full 512GB drive replacement is $300 outside of warranty, but this is below 3rd party prices just now.
Wow, you is city-feller smart! I is thoroughly impressed with yer analysis and hope that you is right.
it's funny when people who wave their hands dismissively at the notion of an optical drive suddenly realize, as my friend did yesterday, that some of the software he already owns is on DVD and installing it on his shiny new Air means having to buy an external borrow mine!
It's undeniably essential when you need one. That's why I compare them to printers because when you need one, there's no substitute. How many people have dusty inkjets sitting around somewhere for that occasion when you have to print out a form and mail it to someone? Frequency of use is an important consideration. When it comes to things like the SD card reader, that might be used infrequently but it takes up hardly any space, whereas an optical takes up about 1/4-1/3 of the laptop. I always wished that SD cards would have taken over from opticals because they can be fully read/write, there's no mechanical parts and they store a lot of data in a small physical space. If NAND was $0.10/GB, a DVD equivalent would be about $0.85. Add that to the cost of a commercial movie and it's a negligible amount. It can be an H.265 format that stores 1080p close to Blu-Ray quality and have read speeds above 40MB/s so can play back at over 20x real-time and instant seek times, no drive noise, no skipping, no disc scratching and it can be made to work in tablets and can also be used for video games.
It's a bit late though because Blu-Ray has taken hold for one thing and internet speeds are high enough for those kind of bitrates for movies. I just wish Sony had taken the initiative to develop that cost-effectivly than keep pushing discs. It just doesn't bear considering burning a write-once Blu-Ray with 25GB of data because it takes too long and it really needs to be verified after burning so for temporary personal storage, it's pointless. SD cards on the other hand can go as high capacity as they like.
IMO future distribution media should consist of SD cards + internet and nothing else. If you need to send source video across the world (it'll probably be a while before 100GB+ uploads will be feasible), you'd load up an SD card, encrypt it if necessary, pay for shipping through Amazon or something online, drop it into a local depot (vending machine?) and off it goes with a whole other bunch of media.
iPad's 32% market share decreasing every day to Samsung's (currently 22%), so no, the tablet market isn't going to help Apple's representation against the PC. Apple is making the same mistake it made when it lost the operating system war against Microsoft. They keep their systems in isolation, and get left behind by superior technology and marketing. They have, and always will, think they can get away with not licensing out clones. Ask Nintendo where that left them, too. The fad is over. There is nothing but irrelevancy in the future of Apple.
Comments
Well, it’s identical to what you’re wanting, except it’s real instead of fantasy.
No, it's not.
One has a Retina display, the other doesn't. One has a hard drive, the other uses proprietary solid state storage. One is smaller and lighter than the other. One is much less expensive than the other. There are so many really significant differences that it's impossible to know how much influence, if any, the optical drive had on any buyer's decision.
Quote:
And yes, we do know which is selling better.
Well, be sure to keep it to yourself. No one here wants to know which one wins or how you know.
…influence, if any, the optical drive had…
Hey, you’ve found it!
Hey, you’ve found it!
Oh yeah, you're a riot, Alice...
So, what about the fact that the presence or absence of the ODD may be the LEAST significant difference between the two models, making the comparison pointless?
Which version is selling better?
How do you know which model is selling better?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Long on smart-ass mocking, short on any actual information, data and insight. You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
Thanks for nothing.
If they break down their notebooks and desktops in the end of October 10k annual report and their average selling prices for laptops have gone up, that would be an indicator that they are selling better than the previous models at the same price points and vice versa. That wouldn't say whether or not the cMBP sells better than the rMBP though.
Price wil pretty much always be the determining factor for sales volume. The rMBP is the better quality laptop - it has a high resolution IPS, laminated display with low glare, it has SSD storage and will be PCIe in the next version and has dual Thunderbolt ports.
The cMBP still looks like better value to a lot of people. You can get up to 16GB RAM 3rd party, SSD for $0.60/GB 3rd party, you get the extras included: optical, FW800, ethernet and to top it all off, it's $300-400 cheaper.
Does that mean they should go back to the cMBP design? No, it means they need to drop the prices on the rMBP, they should really offer 16GB options in every model with the possible exception of the Air and a 3rd USB port wouldn't go amiss.
Ideally for the transition, they'd have taken out the optical, FW800 and ethernet and added an SSD and IPS display for the same price but for whatever reason, that didn't happen. This happened with the Air too though. They moved from plastic to unibody metal, took out the optical and up went the price with slower processor. It took 3 years for the Air to hit the Macbook price point. I don't think anyone would rather that the plastic Macbook came back to replace the Air.
The usage of space is much better inside the rMBP:
They shaved off more than 1lb of weight too. Once the prices come down, it won't seem quite so bad.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Long on smart-ass mocking, short on any actual information, data and insight. You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
Thanks for nothing.
When you decide it’s time for mommy to stop holding your hand, feel free to look up the information for yourself, please. I’m not going to waste my time only to have it shot down for nothing more than being “from me”, via some made up excuse for why it’s invalid.
You want to run the argument, YOU bring the data.
When you decide it’s time for mommy to stop holding your hand, feel free to look up the information for yourself, please. I’m not going to waste my time only to have it shot down for nothing more than being “from me”, via some made up excuse for why it’s invalid.
You want to run the argument, YOU bring the data.
Bullshit! I said you DON'T know which one sells better, and that even if you did, it says NOTHING about whether or not Apple customers actually want optical drives in their computers.
You're claiming to know something the rest of us don't, so let's have it. I call. Please, just explain how the **** the existence of both cMBP and rMBP indicate that Apple customers do not want optical drives. Obviously you can't, so please just drop the ridiculous "persecuted enigma" posturing. I'd challenge you to admit to making over-reaching claims, but I fear that honest self-evaluation will always be suppressed by your zealousness and desire for conflict. It's a shame, really, since you're obviously smart and witty. If you'd lighten up a ... lot, you'd probably be a lot of fun.
For now, knock off the condescending insults, would you? Act like an adult ferfuxsake.
[...] Once the prices come down, it won't seem quite so bad.
I agree that the rMBP is an improvement over the previous generation except for:
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for RAM,
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for storage,
- making it impossible for me to replace said storage when it inevitably wears out,
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for the replacement storage, and
- not offering a 17" version.
Other than that, it's gold!
I agree that the rMBP is an improvement over the previous generation except for:
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for RAM,
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for storage,
- making it impossible for me to replace said storage when it inevitably wears out,
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for the replacement storage, and
- not offering a 17" version.
Other than that, it's gold!
last time I checked all the kinda high end windows stuff were around that price or higher.
external hard drives exist for a reason you know...
I agree that the rMBP is an improvement over the previous generation except for:
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for RAM,
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for storage,
- making it impossible for me to replace said storage when it inevitably wears out,
- forcing me to pay WAAAAY too much for the replacement storage, and
- not offering a 17" version.
Other than that, it's gold!
The display is certainly quite nice, although it seems that the 13 inch rMBP needs Haswell to regain the smoothness of the cMBP; Apple quadrupled the number of pixels the GPU had to push without increasing GPU power proportionally.
I think the Air is their best-selling laptop though, even when the Macbook was around, it was a strong seller:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/03/05/apple_ships_over_1_million_macbook_airs_in_new_notebooks_first_quarter
"At 1.1 million units, the new MacBook Airs captured a 40% slice of the company's notebook business and accounted for just over a quarter of its Mac business as a whole."
If you added the Air to the rMBP numbers, they would be much higher than the machines with optical drives.
It's not really about customers wanting them or not, it's whether they are essential or not. Some people want printers but they aren't essential and don't have to be bundled with the machine. A display on the other hand is essential and it's a good idea to make it the best they can.
If the 15" cMBP and rMBP had the same base price, you'd be looking at:
cMBP = $1799
16GB RAM = $164
512GB SSD = $340
Total = $2303
price-matched rMBP = $1799
16GB RAM = $200
512GB SSD = $300
Total = $2299
Even if the base price was $1899, that's still really competitive.
The second one has an IPS high-res display, more reliable soldered RAM and will be PCIe storage, which is much faster than SATA (it's roughly double the speed of 3rd party drives):
[VIDEO]
I agree entirely that not being able to replace your own storage may be an issue but as long as it lasts long enough into warranty, it should become cheap enough to replace by Apple. Eventually, all Apple's machines will use the same storage, including the Mac Pro so 3rd parties will have broken machines or spares that they can sell on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Macbook-Air-2013-Samsung-SSD-256GB-MZ-JPU256T-655-1803A-/281188679054
It's expensive now because it's new but in 2-3 years, these will be cheap enough for it to not be a problem. Once Apple can offer a standalone 512GB SSD replacement under $200, it's a non-issue. It's also possible to boot these days over Thunderbolt and USB 3 at speeds that feel like the internal.
I think that if they can bring an Iris Pro 15" rMBP out at $1899, the benefits of the cMBP become irrelevant. It does mean having to upgrade at the time of purchase but usually you'd want to do the upgrades immediately after buying anyway. For opticals, just get a cheap DVDRW/BR drive for $35:
http://www.amazon.com/Blu-Ray-Player-External-Laptop-Burner/dp/B001TVAU0E
Apple would never bundle Blu-Ray support anyway so at least now you'd have to choose what you want. Burners are $85:
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SE-506BB-TSBD-External-Blu-ray/dp/B00AO1XFM0
An external is a hassle for people who need them every day but they add bulk for people who don't.
Bullshit! I said you DON'T know which one sells better, and that even if you did, it says NOTHING about whether or not Apple customers actually want optical drives in their computers.
You're claiming to know something the rest of us don't, so let's have it. I call. Please, just explain how the **** the existence of both cMBP and rMBP indicate that Apple customers do not want optical drives. Obviously you can't, so please just drop the ridiculous "persecuted enigma" posturing. I'd challenge you to admit to making over-reaching claims, but I fear that honest self-evaluation will always be suppressed by your zealousness and desire for conflict. It's a shame, really, since you're obviously smart and witty. If you'd lighten up a ... lot, you'd probably be a lot of fun.
For now, knock off the condescending insults, would you? Act like an adult ferfuxsake.
I think there are EXACTLY twelve-trillion, four-hundred thousand and eight Angels on the head of a pin . . .
last time I checked all the kinda high end windows stuff were around that price or higher.
Could well be, but by using universally accepted standard form factors for RAM and storage I have the choice of paying their premium or buying from a third-party and doing it myself.
Since Apple solders in the RAM and uses their own format of storage media, the only option is to pay their egregious prices because there's no DIY alternative.
external hard drives exist for a reason you know...
Seriously? Lemme get this straight... we dumped optical drives, soldered in the RAM and went to a cost-prohibitive proprietary storage format all to reduce the size of the machine. How does it make sense to do all that to save a lousy eighth of an inch if the size and weight saving is more than offset by carrying around an external drive?
Computers with reasonable amounts of on-board storage exist for a reason, you know.
Could well be, but by using universally accepted standard form factors for RAM and storage I have the choice of paying their premium or buying from a third-party and doing it myself.
Since Apple solders in the RAM and uses their own format of storage media, the only option is to pay their egregious prices because there's no DIY alternative.
Seriously? Lemme get this straight... we dumped optical drives, soldered in the RAM and went to a cost-prohibitive proprietary storage format all to reduce the size of the machine. How does it make sense to do all that to save a lousy eighth of an inch if the size and weight saving is more than offset by carrying around an external drive?
Computers with reasonable amounts of on-board storage exist for a reason, you know.
Wow v5v, you're still at it - still droning on and on about "size" and stuff. TS pissed in your soup and you drank it. Get over it. You're the real "Energizer Bunny" - are all your 1200+ posts like this?
If you added the Air to the rMBP numbers, they would be much higher than the machines with optical drives.
Oh I get that. I'm not arguing for or against them or guessing at relative numbers. I was responding to the claim that people who buy Apple don't WANT optical drives. That might be true, but we don't have any way of knowing. *IF* there were a machine available with or without we could test that statement, but since all the machines without 'em are also different than the ones that do in ways that are much more significant, no reasonable comparison can be drawn.
It's expensive now because it's new but in 2-3 years, these will be cheap enough for it to not be a problem.
I used to think so too, but now I have significant doubts about that. How long has the Air been available? How many replacement storage choices does have a buyer have? What is the cost of that storage compared to three years ago?
I'm not confident that cost and availability will improve appreciably over time. Apple doesn't have enough market share to attract major players and unless Apple can persuade other vendors to use their form factor we'll never realize the economies of scale we enjoy with 2.5" devices.
It's also possible to boot these days over Thunderbolt and USB 3 at speeds that feel like the internal.
True, but all but irrelevant. Neither you nor I are going to accept being forced to boot a portable computer from an external drive because the internal storage is worn out.
Wow v5v, you're still at it - still droning on and on about "size" and stuff. TS pissed in your soup and you drank it. Get over it. You're the real "Energizer Bunny" - are all your 1200+ posts like this?
Have we met? Who the hell are you and why the hell should I care?
As for your suggestion that TS somehow "pissed in my soup" (whatever that means) how about you try reading the freakin' thread before spouting off, m'kay? It's painfully obvious that you only skimmed most of it and just jumped in at the end because you have no f?cking clue what you're talking about. If you wanna act all superior you should probably start with not looking like an idiot.
If all other parts were equal, the one with the optical would have to cost more as it has an extra part. I estimate the retail difference would be $100. If it was between $1799 for a machine without and $1899 for a machine with an optical drive, I doubt the majority would go for the optical. Price is typically the deciding factor in sales volume as it was with the anti-glare option. People weren't willing to pay the extra for anti-glare coating and so they eventually dropped it anyway. If you think the majority would pay the extra given that option for an optical, that's perfectly valid but I'd say the popularity of the Air suggests it's not an important consideration for buyers these days.
3 years ago, moving from 128GB to 256GB cost $300 in the Air. It now costs $200. On top of that, the 128GB model used to be $1199 and is now $999. So if that continues, in 3 years, I'd expect 256GB in the entry Air with a $150 upgrade to 512GB and potentially 512GB entry in the MBP. This could mean a full 512GB drive replacement is $300 outside of warranty, but this is below 3rd party prices just now.
For a laptop used as a desktop replacement, it wouldn't matter much but not for a laptop moved around and there is a shortage of ports as it is. A $200-300 replacement fee would be ok though. It would be nice if Apple sold parts like this on their store so that you wouldn't have to send your computer away for them to fix. If the SSD broke or started acting up, you'd just buy the SSD blade from the store, install it yourself and they can give a simple USB 3 or TB to PCIe adaptor to read the old drive if possible.
[...] I'd say the popularity of the Air suggests it's not an important consideration for buyers these days.
True. Still, it's funny when people who wave their hands dismissively at the notion of an optical drive suddenly realize, as my friend did yesterday, that some of the software he already owns is on DVD and installing it on his shiny new Air means having to buy an external borrow mine!
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3 years ago, moving from 128GB to 256GB cost $300 in the Air. It now costs $200. On top of that, the 128GB model used to be $1199 and is now $999. So if that continues, in 3 years, I'd expect 256GB in the entry Air with a $150 upgrade to 512GB and potentially 512GB entry in the MBP. This could mean a full 512GB drive replacement is $300 outside of warranty, but this is below 3rd party prices just now.
Wow, you is city-feller smart! I is thoroughly impressed with yer analysis and hope that you is right.
It's undeniably essential when you need one. That's why I compare them to printers because when you need one, there's no substitute. How many people have dusty inkjets sitting around somewhere for that occasion when you have to print out a form and mail it to someone? Frequency of use is an important consideration. When it comes to things like the SD card reader, that might be used infrequently but it takes up hardly any space, whereas an optical takes up about 1/4-1/3 of the laptop. I always wished that SD cards would have taken over from opticals because they can be fully read/write, there's no mechanical parts and they store a lot of data in a small physical space. If NAND was $0.10/GB, a DVD equivalent would be about $0.85. Add that to the cost of a commercial movie and it's a negligible amount. It can be an H.265 format that stores 1080p close to Blu-Ray quality and have read speeds above 40MB/s so can play back at over 20x real-time and instant seek times, no drive noise, no skipping, no disc scratching and it can be made to work in tablets and can also be used for video games.
It's a bit late though because Blu-Ray has taken hold for one thing and internet speeds are high enough for those kind of bitrates for movies. I just wish Sony had taken the initiative to develop that cost-effectivly than keep pushing discs. It just doesn't bear considering burning a write-once Blu-Ray with 25GB of data because it takes too long and it really needs to be verified after burning so for temporary personal storage, it's pointless. SD cards on the other hand can go as high capacity as they like.
IMO future distribution media should consist of SD cards + internet and nothing else. If you need to send source video across the world (it'll probably be a while before 100GB+ uploads will be feasible), you'd load up an SD card, encrypt it if necessary, pay for shipping through Amazon or something online, drop it into a local depot (vending machine?) and off it goes with a whole other bunch of media.