No they wouldn't. It has happened before. It takes a lot to get them to be accountable. If the defect doesn't show itself until customer service contracts are concluded, they have no motivation to respond to it... unless it's a big PR problem.
Most big corporations will ignore a large percentage of defects and customers so long as it doesn't hurt their public image. With computer tech, unless the defects get regularly mentioned in magazines and high profile web reviews, where it seems to possibly affect future sales, there's rarely any accommodation or accountability for even mass defects.
I don't agree, at least not as it pertains to Apple specifically. Their history has been to correct problems once they deem it affects a relatively large number of units. Apple has previously had repair programs for similar issues.
I had my motherboard replaced after 2 years. It lasted one year.
I had my second motherboard replaced after 3 years: It lasted 2 weeks.
If we assume the motherboards they are using for replacements are old stock, can we not conclude that the deterioration is an on-the shelf ageing problem, and no amount of replacement boards will solve the problem?
On the shelf aging problem? Highly doubtful. They are probably just defective to begin with.
i have the same problem with my mac 2011 15" and the problem is i bought it from a guy and i live in east africa so unless i fix it my self,i am pretty much screwed.disabling the discrete mode and increasing the fan speed helped a bit!...it crashes but not so often...this is my fourth mac and i am a programmer so i am now stuck with my macbook air for compiling and rendering graphics.just to think i payed all that money for a worthless shit is just infuriating!
Apple replaces their parts with reconditioned ones and sometimes their notebooks also.
Their policies indicate new and refurbished parts are used in warranty repairs. There isn't any way of telling what you're getting, but it's not guaranteed to be one or the other.
It is pot luck with Apple I know this.You are correct.
The parts eventually stop being manufactured so the later the replacement, the more likely they have to use refurbished parts. This probably lengthens the turnaround time for a repair if they can't find a refurbished part and maybe need to have one shipped from another store.
It would be nice if they could even solder a newer lower powered GPU into the same motherboard.Recondition a batch of old boards with new GPUs and they shouldn't get the same problem again and again.
It would be nice if they could even solder a newer lower powered GPU into the same motherboard.Recondition a batch of old boards with new GPUs and they shouldn't get the same problem again and again.
That would be cool, but it has never happened. I suspect there's too much testing and adjustment involved to make it a viable proposition. Otherwise they might have tried the use of a different gpu with the more famous NVidia problem a few years ago.
I have a 2011 MBP 15 inch, first logic board failure was Jan , 2nd LB failure was March . I am now on my 3rd LB failure which happened today. Fortunately the LB is still within 90 warranty. The first and 2nd replaced LBs lasted 75 and 78 days each.
I have a 2011 MBP 15 inch, first logic board failure was Jan , 2nd LB failure was March . I am now on my 3rd LB failure which happened today. Fortunately the LB is still within 90 warranty. The first and 2nd replaced LBs lasted 75 and 78 days each.
Any one else experiencing multiple LB failures ?
That should be logged in their system. Some people with that many failures have been given the option of a new machine, some have been refused further repairs. Take it back and tell them you'd like to get another product, it's a losing battle trying to get that model repeatedly fixed. Even if they give you an entry Macbook Air, it's worth about the same as the 2011 MBP and you can sell it and upgrade to a 15".
That should be logged in their system. Some people with that many failures have been given the option of a new machine, some have been refused further repairs. Take it back and tell them you'd like to get another product, it's a losing battle trying to get that model repeatedly fixed. Even if they give you an entry Macbook Air, it's worth about the same as the 2011 MBP and you can sell it and upgrade to a 15".
Exactly. You may have to turn the screws a bit, but they should give you (him) a new machine. If they refuse, I'd tell them I'm contacting the appropriate federal agencies. I one filed a complaint with the FCC and FTC against Verizon, and it was resolved two weeks later
Some people with that many failures have been given the option of a new machine, some have been refused further repairs.
I always wish companies would more consistent and up front about this sort of thing. It just leads to too much bad blood when they only help the squeakiest wheels.
I always wish companies would more consistent and up front about this sort of thing. It just leads to too much bad blood when they only help the squeakiest wheels.
They are, Apple offers warranty protection for a time period required by consumer law and offers to extend it for a fee.
These machines are outside both of those.
The only legal reason outside this period would be due to a safety issue e.g. cars, I doubt this falls under that category.
Apple usually is good about replacing their bad machines.They have excellent customer service as I know from my own experience with Mac Book Pros.
That depends on with whom you speak, both with the customer and Apple reps. I've had both very good service, and very poor (and unreasonable) service. I've had them swap out a year-old iPhone because a button intermittently didn't work, no questions asked. I've also had them tell me they "weren't interested" in replacing an 8 month old removable Macbook/Powerbook battery because it being a 50% performance was "normal" and it was a "consumable item." I called back later and got a totally different response. You just never know. In this case, you're dealing with machines that often malfunction outside of the warranty (extended or otherwise) period. People are upset because they claim it is a known issue. It's a tricky issue, because we've seen other cases where Apple institutes a repair/replace program for known defective products. In other cases, it seems to ignore problems. I think what we have here is a situation that falls on the borderline of critical mass. There are a significant number of people who have this issue, but not enough to warrant a recall or similar action 3 years from date of purchase. They (Apple) likely figure it's easier to repair and replace on a case by case basis until the issue just goes away as people naturally replace their hardware.
They are, Apple offers warranty protection for a time period required by consumer law and offers to extend it for a fee.
These machines are outside both of those.
The only legal reason outside this period would be due to a safety issue e.g. cars, I doubt this falls under that category.
Anything Apple chooses to do is voluntary.
I agree entirely that Apple's not obligated to help, but "voluntary" doesn't have to entail "arbitrary" and "meant to appease those who whine most successfully." The next note after yours relates such an experience: one rep denied a battery replacement, and the next one permitted it, with no change in circumstances. Apple's policies ought to be such that it's clear what they'll do and won't do in such situations, and not a result of which customer service rep answers the phone and how the customer words the request.
I agree entirely that Apple's not obligated to help, but "voluntary" doesn't have to entail "arbitrary" and "meant to appease those who whine most successfully." The next note after yours relates such an experience: one rep denied a battery replacement, and the next one permitted it, with no change in circumstances. Apple's policies ought to be such that it's clear what they'll do and won't do in such situations, and not a result of which customer service rep answers the phone and how the customer words the request.
I'll go further: It really depends on the nature of the defect. Apple may be legally responsible, depending on the circumstances. For example, what if a company knowingly released defective products and then refused to replace/repair them right after the warranty ended? A class action lawsuit might be filed. Depending on outcome (settlement or trial), the company may be held legally responsible.
What we have here, as I said, is a situation that really falls through the cracks. Apple knows about the issue, but has opted to deal with it on a case by case basis. That is probably because of the warranty periods being over and the number of complaints they've gotten. If this affected 50,000 machines, you might have a different story. I don't know the number, but I expect it's a few thousand units, maybe a little more.
Thought I'd share my find after countless forums and message boards with the same problem only to have apple genius tell all the same thing - that it's a logic board issue and that the graphics chip or processor is possibly damaged.
Well I found through other such cases that the logic board doesn't necessarily have to be replaced as the apple geniuses would have us all believing. Apparently pc users get the same problem too, and according to techs that fix pc's all the time, this screen problem and inability to boot is an easy and fast fix, it's generally related to a graphics chip problem where the soder that binds the chip to the logic board has softened due to overheating. If you take your mbp to a pc tech who also deals in fixing Macs, he will be able to do what's called a reflow, which is a process of rebinding or resodering any loose pins back to the logic board. According to them this is a simple fix. Only takes two hours max to complete! Do as I did, find yourselves a Computer tech in your neighborhood using yelp, mine quoted me only $80, and only need to pay if he's able to fix it and if thats the only issue! Of course, for some people, your chip may be cracked or fried, therefore only a new board would be advised, but please try this first before letting apple genius convince you to turn yours in for some rediculous fees and dollar amounts of up to $1200 in some cases I've read.
The logic board is repairable folks if it's only loose soder...just as long as there's nothing else wrong with the graphics chip and nothing else is cracked or damaged like the board itself, connectors, the drive, etc...there may be hope yet! So find yourself a pc tech who also repair macs, and who knows about doing a reflow...this may solve your problem!
Comments
No they wouldn't. It has happened before. It takes a lot to get them to be accountable. If the defect doesn't show itself until customer service contracts are concluded, they have no motivation to respond to it... unless it's a big PR problem.
Most big corporations will ignore a large percentage of defects and customers so long as it doesn't hurt their public image. With computer tech, unless the defects get regularly mentioned in magazines and high profile web reviews, where it seems to possibly affect future sales, there's rarely any accommodation or accountability for even mass defects.
I don't agree, at least not as it pertains to Apple specifically. Their history has been to correct problems once they deem it affects a relatively large number of units. Apple has previously had repair programs for similar issues.
Macbook Pro 17" 2011
I had my motherboard replaced after 2 years. It lasted one year.
I had my second motherboard replaced after 3 years: It lasted 2 weeks.
If we assume the motherboards they are using for replacements are old stock, can we not conclude that the deterioration is an on-the shelf ageing problem, and no amount of replacement boards will solve the problem?
On the shelf aging problem? Highly doubtful. They are probably just defective to begin with.
On the shelf aging problem? Highly doubtful. They are probably just defective to begin with.
Indeed. The second motherboard was probably reconditioned, and therefore used.
Apple replaces their parts with reconditioned ones and sometimes their notebooks also.
Apple replaces their parts with reconditioned ones and sometimes their notebooks also.
Their policies indicate new and refurbished parts are used in warranty repairs. There isn't any way of telling what you're getting, but it's not guaranteed to be one or the other.
It is pot luck with Apple I know this.You are correct.
The parts eventually stop being manufactured so the later the replacement, the more likely they have to use refurbished parts. This probably lengthens the turnaround time for a repair if they can't find a refurbished part and maybe need to have one shipped from another store.
It would be nice if they could even solder a newer lower powered GPU into the same motherboard.Recondition a batch of old boards with new GPUs and they shouldn't get the same problem again and again.
It would be nice if they could even solder a newer lower powered GPU into the same motherboard.Recondition a batch of old boards with new GPUs and they shouldn't get the same problem again and again.
That would be cool, but it has never happened. I suspect there's too much testing and adjustment involved to make it a viable proposition. Otherwise they might have tried the use of a different gpu with the more famous NVidia problem a few years ago.
I have a 2011 MBP 15 inch, first logic board failure was Jan , 2nd LB failure was March . I am now on my 3rd LB failure which happened today. Fortunately the LB is still within 90 warranty. The first and 2nd replaced LBs lasted 75 and 78 days each.
Any one else experiencing multiple LB failures ?
That should be logged in their system. Some people with that many failures have been given the option of a new machine, some have been refused further repairs. Take it back and tell them you'd like to get another product, it's a losing battle trying to get that model repeatedly fixed. Even if they give you an entry Macbook Air, it's worth about the same as the 2011 MBP and you can sell it and upgrade to a 15".
That should be logged in their system. Some people with that many failures have been given the option of a new machine, some have been refused further repairs. Take it back and tell them you'd like to get another product, it's a losing battle trying to get that model repeatedly fixed. Even if they give you an entry Macbook Air, it's worth about the same as the 2011 MBP and you can sell it and upgrade to a 15".
Exactly. You may have to turn the screws a bit, but they should give you (him) a new machine. If they refuse, I'd tell them I'm contacting the appropriate federal agencies. I one filed a complaint with the FCC and FTC against Verizon, and it was resolved two weeks later
Some people with that many failures have been given the option of a new machine, some have been refused further repairs.
I always wish companies would more consistent and up front about this sort of thing. It just leads to too much bad blood when they only help the squeakiest wheels.
Apple usually is good about replacing their bad machines.They have excellent customer service as I know from my own experience with Mac Book Pros.
I always wish companies would more consistent and up front about this sort of thing. It just leads to too much bad blood when they only help the squeakiest wheels.
They are, Apple offers warranty protection for a time period required by consumer law and offers to extend it for a fee.
These machines are outside both of those.
The only legal reason outside this period would be due to a safety issue e.g. cars, I doubt this falls under that category.
Anything Apple chooses to do is voluntary.
Apple usually is good about replacing their bad machines.They have excellent customer service as I know from my own experience with Mac Book Pros.
That depends on with whom you speak, both with the customer and Apple reps. I've had both very good service, and very poor (and unreasonable) service. I've had them swap out a year-old iPhone because a button intermittently didn't work, no questions asked. I've also had them tell me they "weren't interested" in replacing an 8 month old removable Macbook/Powerbook battery because it being a 50% performance was "normal" and it was a "consumable item." I called back later and got a totally different response. You just never know. In this case, you're dealing with machines that often malfunction outside of the warranty (extended or otherwise) period. People are upset because they claim it is a known issue. It's a tricky issue, because we've seen other cases where Apple institutes a repair/replace program for known defective products. In other cases, it seems to ignore problems. I think what we have here is a situation that falls on the borderline of critical mass. There are a significant number of people who have this issue, but not enough to warrant a recall or similar action 3 years from date of purchase. They (Apple) likely figure it's easier to repair and replace on a case by case basis until the issue just goes away as people naturally replace their hardware.
They are, Apple offers warranty protection for a time period required by consumer law and offers to extend it for a fee.
These machines are outside both of those.
The only legal reason outside this period would be due to a safety issue e.g. cars, I doubt this falls under that category.
Anything Apple chooses to do is voluntary.
I agree entirely that Apple's not obligated to help, but "voluntary" doesn't have to entail "arbitrary" and "meant to appease those who whine most successfully." The next note after yours relates such an experience: one rep denied a battery replacement, and the next one permitted it, with no change in circumstances. Apple's policies ought to be such that it's clear what they'll do and won't do in such situations, and not a result of which customer service rep answers the phone and how the customer words the request.
I agree entirely that Apple's not obligated to help, but "voluntary" doesn't have to entail "arbitrary" and "meant to appease those who whine most successfully." The next note after yours relates such an experience: one rep denied a battery replacement, and the next one permitted it, with no change in circumstances. Apple's policies ought to be such that it's clear what they'll do and won't do in such situations, and not a result of which customer service rep answers the phone and how the customer words the request.
I'll go further: It really depends on the nature of the defect. Apple may be legally responsible, depending on the circumstances. For example, what if a company knowingly released defective products and then refused to replace/repair them right after the warranty ended? A class action lawsuit might be filed. Depending on outcome (settlement or trial), the company may be held legally responsible.
What we have here, as I said, is a situation that really falls through the cracks. Apple knows about the issue, but has opted to deal with it on a case by case basis. That is probably because of the warranty periods being over and the number of complaints they've gotten. If this affected 50,000 machines, you might have a different story. I don't know the number, but I expect it's a few thousand units, maybe a little more.
Well I found through other such cases that the logic board doesn't necessarily have to be replaced as the apple geniuses would have us all believing. Apparently pc users get the same problem too, and according to techs that fix pc's all the time, this screen problem and inability to boot is an easy and fast fix, it's generally related to a graphics chip problem where the soder that binds the chip to the logic board has softened due to overheating. If you take your mbp to a pc tech who also deals in fixing Macs, he will be able to do what's called a reflow, which is a process of rebinding or resodering any loose pins back to the logic board. According to them this is a simple fix. Only takes two hours max to complete! Do as I did, find yourselves a Computer tech in your neighborhood using yelp, mine quoted me only $80, and only need to pay if he's able to fix it and if thats the only issue! Of course, for some people, your chip may be cracked or fried, therefore only a new board would be advised, but please try this first before letting apple genius convince you to turn yours in for some rediculous fees and dollar amounts of up to $1200 in some cases I've read.
The logic board is repairable folks if it's only loose soder...just as long as there's nothing else wrong with the graphics chip and nothing else is cracked or damaged like the board itself, connectors, the drive, etc...there may be hope yet! So find yourself a pc tech who also repair macs, and who knows about doing a reflow...this may solve your problem!
https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/timothy-d-cook-replace-or-fix-all-early-2011-macbook-pro-with-graphics-failure