Had a Chrome Book, it was nice, but so limited only could use the internet on it, NOTHING ELSE! so took it back.. As far as buying pc's for them, guess they want something to work on and fix all the time!
Apple (who's always had this problem) should stop pushing "one size (product) fits all" scenarios on schools (or businesses). For their education programs, set up a deal that lets the schools choose the type of device that fits their needs, and have those choices part of the package that can be easily managed, and the total price mostly unaffected.
In my estimation, the ideal choices for a school deal would be any combination of iPad, iPad mini (with or without keyboards), MacBook Air 11 & 13", along with various software and support options.
"One size fits all" has never been a winning solution.
This would be a very valid point, except that I doubt any more thought went into the adoption of the Chromebooks, how they will be used, what they are good for, etc. It seems more like the standard educational thinking which is, basically, "Hey, we threw some iPads into the classroom without much in the way of planning or support and it didn't revolutionize teaching and learning, so let's throw them out and do Chromebooks instead because they are similarly priced and have a keyboard."
According to the AI article iPads, Chromebooks and in some cases Windows machines were all tested at the same time presumably for the same tasks by some of the schools. Administration, support, screen size, integrated keyboard, perception of it as a work device, along with less expense in both support and upfront costs have all been cited as pluses for the Chromebook. Others here are no doubt familiar with some of the advantages of an iPad over a Chromebook.
My son (two years old) uses a 7" Kindle Fire HDX for learning/alphabet/phonics games. It works perfectly for him because at his age, touch is everything -- and it only cost me $145 new. I can understand the the limited use of tablets (somewhat) in lower grades, but once you start getting up into the middle school/high school grades, a laptop makes infinitely more sense IMHO.
My wife is a second grade teacher, and they have iPads in her grade level that are shared between the four classrooms (only one classroom can use them at a time). The school district basically got some money, bought the iPads and the rolling cart that they use to charge them up overnight. THAT'S IT!! They got some money and said, "Hey, let's buy some iPads."
There's no curriculum based on using the iPads
No guidelines
No approved list of apps
NOTHING
They basically just threw the iPads at the teachers and said "Make sense of this." As if teachers don't have enough on their plates already than to muck around though the sea of free/fremium apps on the App Store to find something relevant to their students.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
The only issue is a lack of proper planning.
If keyboards are necessary then the school district should identify the requirement and include keyboards in the quote.
There are a considerable number of options for mobile device management for Apple iOS devices. Management of mobile devices is another requirement that school districts need to identify prior to general release.
Screen size ...
Mouse ...
Purpose ...
Use ...
Apps ...
These are all planning issues. Seemingly, school districts are buying a solution without having identified a problem.
Having experience at a school that offer one to one iPads, I can not say how right on you both are. The schools can barely afford the technology (and this goes for Windows Laptops, Chromebooks, MacBooks, any and all technology) to begin with, much less have a real clear understanding in the use, upkeep, etc. of all these devices. They do not budget the resources to manage these implementations and ongoing maintenance, so no wonder they are "failing" - It isn't the technology (though that largely becomes the narrative, couldn't be the execution/implementation, could it?) - Sadly, the school districts do not realize that, yes, it is the execution/implementation.
The problem is the way schools teach and the way they want students to learn. It seems to me that they've tried iPads and gone back to the same old, same old with a cheap laptop with a keyboard and mouse because it's what they're more familiar with and what they're used to teaching with.
The education system needs to change and with the introduction of new technologies now is the time. Teachers and students alike both need to adapt to new teaching and learning tools and techniques and something like the iPad is the beginning of this. What's archaic is students sitting in front of a laptop tapping away at the keyboard, they've been doing that for far too long and it needs to evolve. Touchscreens are the new interface and these need to be adopted in a new way to push education in a new direction.
I do understand to some extent where these schools are coming from, but on the other hand I believe that this has more to do with an unwillingness to move forward with technology. Considering that most of these kids probably already have some kind of desktop/laptop situation at home because of their parents, I can't see many situations that would require that much typing at school. For instance, if I were in middle school or high school and was given and iPad, my primary method of taking notes wouldn't be typing them, it would be recording the teacher's lesson with a simple voice recorder app. Or, the teachers could even record themselves with said app and share the audio with every student in their class via Dropbox or Google Docs. That way the entire class lesson can be listened to later and can have much better retention results than typing notes. When you type or write notes you tend to miss things while taking your attention away to do so. With the use of a voice recorder not only would students not miss anything, but it would only require light actual note taking, like maybe in the form of typing out a formula so that you can have a visual to go along with the audio. With that in mind I can't really see anything that a Chromebook could do that you wouldn't actually have a better experience on a iPad.
An easy way to solve this is to just get a portfolio case with a keyboard built in. Then you have both a case an a keyboard.
A Chromebook may seem nice at first, but you'll run into issues down the road, not to mention what apps are you going to use other than Google Docs? At least if you use a Windows tablet you have opportunities to use apps unless its Windows RT. The Google ecosystem is a bad one to get involved with IMO. Yes, Apple's is perfect, but with the way they're organizing things like the Volume Purchase Program, the Device Enrollment Program, and student Apple ID's for children under 13 to me its a no brainer. There are ways around things like keyboards. To me, thats a stupid reason to get Chromebooks. More like, they're just went cheap and got Chromebooks. In the end, it will cost them more to get out of Google's shitty ecosystem.
If there was a way to get the 13" MacBook Air down to around $699 I think it would be a huge seller for K-12 schools. Its just a little more expensive than an iPad, cheaper than a Windows Tablet and will run circles around a Chromebook. The 11" MacBook Air is just too small and useless for educational use.
Sadly, the reference in the article is to East L.A. school district - Isn't this the district where they had some incompetent IT department. How is Chromebook any better than the Windows based Netbook they could have pushed. I think the author missed the point here.
My wife is a second grade teacher, and they have iPads in her grade level that are shared between the four classrooms (only one classroom can use them at a time). The school district basically got some money, bought the iPads and the rolling cart that they use to charge them up overnight. THAT'S IT!! They got some money and said, "Hey, let's buy some iPads."
There's no curriculum based on using the iPads
No guidelines
No approved list of apps
NOTHING
They basically just threw the iPads at the teachers and said "Make sense of this." As if teachers don't have enough on their plates already than to muck around though the sea of free/fremium apps on the App Store to find something relevant to their students.
This is the same problem with many companies as well, they only budget enough money for hardware and hardly ever take the time to come up with a complete plan on what the objective of the purchase is, how they intend to use the "system," and how they intend to support everything (hardware, software, and personnel). Of course, we've also seen what happens when a school or company tries to do the right thing and hires (what ends up being) an expensive consultant only to find most of the money goes to the consultant. My older brother was the computer teacher several years ago at a middle school until they cut his budget. He's very anal (all older brothers, especially first born are) but took his job seriously, researching everything and making sure everything worked properly. Once he was forced to connect to the administration's office system, everything broke because their IT person couldn't do anything.
Apple can only do so much, and they do a lot if they're asked. It's up to the school or company to get the right people together and not throw money at a solution without first figuring out what they want to do. There are people who are more than willing to help, they just need to be asked before the computers are bought.
The problem with curriculum is a chicken and egg problem; curriculum needs to be designed to work on one to several platforms but without knowing what those platforms can and can not do, you can't create the curriculum. As many of us know, books can be like cars, they lose most of their value the minute they are driven off the lot. Unfortunately, many educational books are purchased because someone with the latest idea on how to educate our youth wants to sell their idea and everyone is forced to buy books and other resources that are only lining the pockets of the author and not always educating anyone.
disclaimer: I have 4 brothers, a wife, and 4 sister-in-laws. At one time (some have retired), 3 brothers, my wife, and 3 sister-in-laws were teachers (primary thru middle school). I'm not a teacher although part of my job was teaching people how to use the system we were working on. Teaching is a thankless job and I just wish more teachers were in charge of schools instead of administrators who've never been in a classroom. I also wish more parents wouldn't treat schools as day care.
The problem is the way schools teach and the way they want students to learn. It seems to me that they've tried iPads and gone back to the same old, same old with a cheap laptop with a keyboard and mouse because it's what they're more familiar with and what they're used to teaching with.
The education system needs to change and with the introduction of new technologies now is the time. Teachers and students alike both need to adapt to new teaching and learning tools and techniques and something like the iPad is the beginning of this. What's archaic is students sitting in front of a laptop tapping away at the keyboard, they've been doing that for far too long and it needs to evolve. Touchscreens are the new interface and these need to be adopted in a new way to push education in a new direction.
When writing a 15-page research report for you HS class, would you rather use an iPad or a MacBook Air/ThinkPad?
Having experience at a school that offer one to one iPads, I can not say how right on you both are. The schools can barely afford the technology (and this goes for Windows Laptops, Chromebooks, MacBooks, any and all technology) to begin with, much less have a real clear understanding in the use, upkeep, etc. of all these devices. They do not budget the resources to manage these implementations and ongoing maintenance, so no wonder they are "failing" - It isn't the technology (though that largely becomes the narrative, couldn't be the execution/implementation, could it?) - Sadly, the school districts do not realize that, yes, it is the execution/implementation.
Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book
Don't know much about the French I took
What I do know is healthcare
and how poorly Managers fair
When they get iPads for free
They just don't know for what they be
If they think iPads have shortcomings, wait till they try Chromebooks. Chromebooks only give you the web, and no programs at all. If keyboards are the issue, that would have been a cheaper solution.
For my uses, a Chromebook wouldn't be useful but I can see how it could be the right choice for a school. My wife runs her school's learning resource center and while the kids enjoy the iPads, they are continuing jumping through hoops when it comes to sharing/distributing work and managing apps.
I know people here do not like windows but I always thought apple should take a play out of those 3 in 1 windows laptops. Make a dock of sorts for the ipad that the ipad clicks into which turns the ipad into the monitor and the OS switches to OSX. It would be perfect for schools.
So you say a keyboard for the 9.7" iPad is the solution, however, later you say an 11" MBA is still too small for education purposes.
I'm confused.
Using iOS and OS X are two different things. The 11" screen on the MBA makes everything very tiny and it doesn't meet the requirements of certain state mandates for testing. iOS is made for the size of screen its on as are the apps.
That's way cheaper than trying to run touch enabled software on a laptop or chromebook
Been there, done that. I tried using a Bluetooth keyboard with my iPad mini as a substitute for my 15" Retina MacBook Pro on the road and failed miserably. My daily workload requires me to have a word processor, Photoshop, email program, Twitter, and about 20 tabs open in Safari at once (I could see a similar situation for a student doing research work).
The back and forth between typing and then reaching to touch the screen, swiping, tapping, back to the keyboard, etc. was enough to drive me batty as hell. I ended that experiment right away.
The keyboard issue is surely the easiest problem to solve, no? With a keyboard case the iPad becomes hugely more functional for text / spreadsheet input and editing.
I have always thought Apple should have created a transparent software layer that would allow for mouse use - show cursor movement and translate a mouse click into a 'touch'. Cmnd-Tab to flip apps would also be very useful.
Sounds to me like Apple dropped the ball here. In their arrogance, they've not bothered to do their homework. I.e., they should have sent teams out to pilot schools and organizations, and found out what these problems are in advance, and then fixed them. SHOW the way to connect keyboards, OR offer the MBA. Provide seamless integration with existing educational software, SHOWING that the device works and how it is administered. TRAIN school IT admins in how to deploy and maintain the software. TEACH developers of edu software how to code and design their apps for the iPad and/or MBA. ENSURE that "problems" are designed so that they can be viewed on an iPad easily. Apple left too much up to chance here. That's what I mean by "arrogance". And once they get everything working properly, then send teams out on roadshows to DEMONSTRATE FUNCTION and EASE.
Instead, it seems Apple has squandered a good bit of goodwill.
Comments
In my estimation, the ideal choices for a school deal would be any combination of iPad, iPad mini (with or without keyboards), MacBook Air 11 & 13", along with various software and support options.
"One size fits all" has never been a winning solution.
According to the AI article iPads, Chromebooks and in some cases Windows machines were all tested at the same time presumably for the same tasks by some of the schools. Administration, support, screen size, integrated keyboard, perception of it as a work device, along with less expense in both support and upfront costs have all been cited as pluses for the Chromebook. Others here are no doubt familiar with some of the advantages of an iPad over a Chromebook.
My son (two years old) uses a 7" Kindle Fire HDX for learning/alphabet/phonics games. It works perfectly for him because at his age, touch is everything -- and it only cost me $145 new. I can understand the the limited use of tablets (somewhat) in lower grades, but once you start getting up into the middle school/high school grades, a laptop makes infinitely more sense IMHO.
My wife is a second grade teacher, and they have iPads in her grade level that are shared between the four classrooms (only one classroom can use them at a time). The school district basically got some money, bought the iPads and the rolling cart that they use to charge them up overnight. THAT'S IT!! They got some money and said, "Hey, let's buy some iPads."
There's no curriculum based on using the iPads
No guidelines
No approved list of apps
NOTHING
They basically just threw the iPads at the teachers and said "Make sense of this." As if teachers don't have enough on their plates already than to muck around though the sea of free/fremium apps on the App Store to find something relevant to their students.
The only issue is a lack of proper planning.
If keyboards are necessary then the school district should identify the requirement and include keyboards in the quote.
There are a considerable number of options for mobile device management for Apple iOS devices. Management of mobile devices is another requirement that school districts need to identify prior to general release.
Screen size ...
Mouse ...
Purpose ...
Use ...
Apps ...
These are all planning issues. Seemingly, school districts are buying a solution without having identified a problem.
Having experience at a school that offer one to one iPads, I can not say how right on you both are. The schools can barely afford the technology (and this goes for Windows Laptops, Chromebooks, MacBooks, any and all technology) to begin with, much less have a real clear understanding in the use, upkeep, etc. of all these devices. They do not budget the resources to manage these implementations and ongoing maintenance, so no wonder they are "failing" - It isn't the technology (though that largely becomes the narrative, couldn't be the execution/implementation, could it?) - Sadly, the school districts do not realize that, yes, it is the execution/implementation.
The problem is the way schools teach and the way they want students to learn. It seems to me that they've tried iPads and gone back to the same old, same old with a cheap laptop with a keyboard and mouse because it's what they're more familiar with and what they're used to teaching with.
The education system needs to change and with the introduction of new technologies now is the time. Teachers and students alike both need to adapt to new teaching and learning tools and techniques and something like the iPad is the beginning of this. What's archaic is students sitting in front of a laptop tapping away at the keyboard, they've been doing that for far too long and it needs to evolve. Touchscreens are the new interface and these need to be adopted in a new way to push education in a new direction.
I do understand to some extent where these schools are coming from, but on the other hand I believe that this has more to do with an unwillingness to move forward with technology. Considering that most of these kids probably already have some kind of desktop/laptop situation at home because of their parents, I can't see many situations that would require that much typing at school. For instance, if I were in middle school or high school and was given and iPad, my primary method of taking notes wouldn't be typing them, it would be recording the teacher's lesson with a simple voice recorder app. Or, the teachers could even record themselves with said app and share the audio with every student in their class via Dropbox or Google Docs. That way the entire class lesson can be listened to later and can have much better retention results than typing notes. When you type or write notes you tend to miss things while taking your attention away to do so. With the use of a voice recorder not only would students not miss anything, but it would only require light actual note taking, like maybe in the form of typing out a formula so that you can have a visual to go along with the audio. With that in mind I can't really see anything that a Chromebook could do that you wouldn't actually have a better experience on a iPad.
An easy way to solve this is to just get a portfolio case with a keyboard built in. Then you have both a case an a keyboard.
A Chromebook may seem nice at first, but you'll run into issues down the road, not to mention what apps are you going to use other than Google Docs? At least if you use a Windows tablet you have opportunities to use apps unless its Windows RT. The Google ecosystem is a bad one to get involved with IMO. Yes, Apple's is perfect, but with the way they're organizing things like the Volume Purchase Program, the Device Enrollment Program, and student Apple ID's for children under 13 to me its a no brainer. There are ways around things like keyboards. To me, thats a stupid reason to get Chromebooks. More like, they're just went cheap and got Chromebooks. In the end, it will cost them more to get out of Google's shitty ecosystem.
If there was a way to get the 13" MacBook Air down to around $699 I think it would be a huge seller for K-12 schools. Its just a little more expensive than an iPad, cheaper than a Windows Tablet and will run circles around a Chromebook. The 11" MacBook Air is just too small and useless for educational use.
My wife is a second grade teacher, and they have iPads in her grade level that are shared between the four classrooms (only one classroom can use them at a time). The school district basically got some money, bought the iPads and the rolling cart that they use to charge them up overnight. THAT'S IT!! They got some money and said, "Hey, let's buy some iPads."
There's no curriculum based on using the iPads
No guidelines
No approved list of apps
NOTHING
They basically just threw the iPads at the teachers and said "Make sense of this." As if teachers don't have enough on their plates already than to muck around though the sea of free/fremium apps on the App Store to find something relevant to their students.
This is the same problem with many companies as well, they only budget enough money for hardware and hardly ever take the time to come up with a complete plan on what the objective of the purchase is, how they intend to use the "system," and how they intend to support everything (hardware, software, and personnel). Of course, we've also seen what happens when a school or company tries to do the right thing and hires (what ends up being) an expensive consultant only to find most of the money goes to the consultant. My older brother was the computer teacher several years ago at a middle school until they cut his budget. He's very anal (all older brothers, especially first born are) but took his job seriously, researching everything and making sure everything worked properly. Once he was forced to connect to the administration's office system, everything broke because their IT person couldn't do anything.
Apple can only do so much, and they do a lot if they're asked. It's up to the school or company to get the right people together and not throw money at a solution without first figuring out what they want to do. There are people who are more than willing to help, they just need to be asked before the computers are bought.
The problem with curriculum is a chicken and egg problem; curriculum needs to be designed to work on one to several platforms but without knowing what those platforms can and can not do, you can't create the curriculum. As many of us know, books can be like cars, they lose most of their value the minute they are driven off the lot. Unfortunately, many educational books are purchased because someone with the latest idea on how to educate our youth wants to sell their idea and everyone is forced to buy books and other resources that are only lining the pockets of the author and not always educating anyone.
disclaimer: I have 4 brothers, a wife, and 4 sister-in-laws. At one time (some have retired), 3 brothers, my wife, and 3 sister-in-laws were teachers (primary thru middle school). I'm not a teacher although part of my job was teaching people how to use the system we were working on. Teaching is a thankless job and I just wish more teachers were in charge of schools instead of administrators who've never been in a classroom. I also wish more parents wouldn't treat schools as day care.
When writing a 15-page research report for you HS class, would you rather use an iPad or a MacBook Air/ThinkPad?
Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book
Don't know much about the French I took
What I do know is healthcare
and how poorly Managers fair
When they get iPads for free
They just don't know for what they be
You can already get DOOM for the iPad...
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/doom-classic/id336347946?mt=8
...and it's a great educational tool too!
An easy way to solve this is to just get a portfolio case with a keyboard built in. Then you have both a case an a keyboard.
[…]
The 11" MacBook Air is just too small and useless for educational use.
So you say a keyboard for the 9.7" iPad is the solution, however, later you say an 11" MBA is still too small for education purposes.
I'm confused.
If they think iPads have shortcomings, wait till they try Chromebooks. Chromebooks only give you the web, and no programs at all. If keyboards are the issue, that would have been a cheaper solution.
For starters, online might be all they need for in-class work, anyway. Secondly, Chrome allows for offline work: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2453999/chromebooks-beyond-the-cloud-everything-chromebooks-can-do-offline.html
For my uses, a Chromebook wouldn't be useful but I can see how it could be the right choice for a school. My wife runs her school's learning resource center and while the kids enjoy the iPads, they are continuing jumping through hoops when it comes to sharing/distributing work and managing apps.
So you say a keyboard for the 9.7" iPad is the solution, however, later you say an 11" MBA is still too small for education purposes.
I'm confused.
Using iOS and OS X are two different things. The 11" screen on the MBA makes everything very tiny and it doesn't meet the requirements of certain state mandates for testing. iOS is made for the size of screen its on as are the apps.
Been there, done that. I tried using a Bluetooth keyboard with my iPad mini as a substitute for my 15" Retina MacBook Pro on the road and failed miserably. My daily workload requires me to have a word processor, Photoshop, email program, Twitter, and about 20 tabs open in Safari at once (I could see a similar situation for a student doing research work).
The back and forth between typing and then reaching to touch the screen, swiping, tapping, back to the keyboard, etc. was enough to drive me batty as hell. I ended that experiment right away.
The keyboard issue is surely the easiest problem to solve, no? With a keyboard case the iPad becomes hugely more functional for text / spreadsheet input and editing.
I have always thought Apple should have created a transparent software layer that would allow for mouse use - show cursor movement and translate a mouse click into a 'touch'. Cmnd-Tab to flip apps would also be very useful.
Sounds to me like Apple dropped the ball here. In their arrogance, they've not bothered to do their homework. I.e., they should have sent teams out to pilot schools and organizations, and found out what these problems are in advance, and then fixed them. SHOW the way to connect keyboards, OR offer the MBA. Provide seamless integration with existing educational software, SHOWING that the device works and how it is administered. TRAIN school IT admins in how to deploy and maintain the software. TEACH developers of edu software how to code and design their apps for the iPad and/or MBA. ENSURE that "problems" are designed so that they can be viewed on an iPad easily. Apple left too much up to chance here. That's what I mean by "arrogance". And once they get everything working properly, then send teams out on roadshows to DEMONSTRATE FUNCTION and EASE.
Instead, it seems Apple has squandered a good bit of goodwill.