Well of course such potential buyers may want to consider these things.
You are not a compartmentalised box as a person, yet companies can easily be that. I believe that one of the reasons the world is in such a mess is because so many corporations are utterly amoral. Alan Sugar, ex boss of AMSTRAD said "If there was a market for portable nuclear weapons we'd make them". Raytheon doesn't care who dies as long as it gets to sell more weapons to those who can pay for its products. When a company thinks of nothing but it's duty to shareholders and hang people's feelings, the good of the environment or any wider concerns, it can get nasty.
Apple under Tim seems to be a company that takes its responsibility to the world in which it operates very seriously and wants to set an example of best practice in its behaviour as well as its products. Tim, for example, told some guy at a shareholders meeting this year who was worried about Apple's concern over its environmental footprint that he should basically get out of Apple's stock.
In my book, we need far more companies behaving like Apple, who understand that with power, comes responsibility.
I largely agree with your comments, but I also believe it is not Apple's job to fix society or the world. It's their job to provide excellent products to buyers and to keep them coming back, which they continue to do. It's not Apple's place to create the appearance they have a political agenda. If Tim wants to start an organization devoted to gay "rights" or other issues, by all means start an organization and get involved.
So basically you are saying no crime should go punished?
Kill someone. Thats okay. Something wrong with the persons brain.
Steal something. Thats okay thats the way they were 'born'.
If you ever had a friend or relative that was MURDERED you would understand. You obviously don't.
If that is what you read into what i said then there is little possibility of a sensible debate. I specifically said that many innocent people have been railroaded simply to appease families of victims. That should not be the prime motive of dealing with crime. I never said crime should not be dealt with fairly. I also said that a serial killer may well need treatment. Mental illness is another topic we probably better not get into.
My point is two people should not be having 5ex if they are not able to support a child. Because things happen!
OMG dig yourself in deeper. You know the 1950's when those courageous few in Boston worked on the first contraceptive pill had to do it in secret because of crazy ideas like that? It was illegal then for all the same sort of stupid garbage you just said and it's 60 years later.
There's no way this argument reaches resolution, not least because @sog35 has strong fundamentalist religious beliefs that he mistakes for self-evident facts. Agree to differ is the only reasonable outcome.
There's no way this argument reaches resolution, not least because <a data-huddler-embed="href" href="/u/191133/sog35" style="display:inline-block;">@sog35</a>
has strong fundamentalist religious beliefs that he mistakes for self-evident facts. Agree to differ is the only reasonable outcome.
Of course you are correct. But you know, this old atheist loves Christmas
I don't think its a false trade off. I think these things are a distraction and not necessary. We don't need to be talking about Cook's personal life or sexual orientation. And we wouldn't be has he not chosen to make it public.
If you were gay and had just been fired from your job because you were gay, or refused a room in a hotel because you were gay, or violently attacked in the street because you were gay then you might see that some people have a real problem with you and who you are. If Apple can, by example, show that such attitudes are ignorant and damaging then let's have more companies stepping up to the bar. There should be no place, at work or play, for discrimination and inequality in 2014.
There's no way this argument reaches resolution, not least because @sog35 has strong fundamentalist religious beliefs that he mistakes for self-evident facts. Agree to differ is the only reasonable outcome.
So you want your daughter to have kids when shes 15?
I dont consider it strong fundamental beliefs. I considered it common sense.
Look at the statistics. Look at girls who had babies at 15-17 and see how their life turned out. This has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with being responsible.
Throwing straw man arguments at me does not change anything. Adding non sequiturs makes it worse. Of course it is not desirable to have children when immature or otherwise not in a position to support them, but it does not follow that the only solution (or even best solution) is abstinence, and it does not follow that abortion is murder.
....There should be no place, at work or play, for discrimination and inequality in 2014.
Ideally. However, it's really up to the individual. I find that when people work in close quarters with other people, even those whom they disagree, they will usually learn to like something about that other person.
I don't get this whole gay pride thing, seriously I don't.
I'm not "proud" to be a straight, male human being, it's just what I am.
Oh dear.
Have you ever been insulted at in the street because you were straight? Fulminated at and told you'd burn in hell by religious ministers because you were straight? Beaten up and killed because you were straight? Told you were about the same level as paedophiles because you were straight? Refused to be able to see your dying partner in hospital because you were straight? Chucked out of you and your partner's home of 30 years because you were straight and so your relationship was invalid? Offered the choice of chemical castration, as Alan Turing was by the UK government, if you had been straight? Had your children taken from you because you were straight? Lost your job because you were straight? Asked from the age of 12 when you are going to meet a nice boy and settle down? Watched TV programmes filled with only gay couples? Watched films where all the straight lovers met grisly and lonely ends? Read one book after another after another filled with happy gay couples and not a straight couple in sight? Had doctors offer to 'cure' you of your heterosexual attraction? Had your parents disown you and throw you out of your childhood home because you were straight? Lost your best friend because you were straight?
I know what you're saying, but I see labor laws and green initiatives as rather impersonal and not something that will rile up people (for whatever personal reasons they may have).
Well someone pissed on my "trees" yesterday and I went balistic, so you can count me out of that generalization... :smokey:
Would like to take a moment to say thanks for the great debate across all of the topics discussed today in the thread, and for Tim Cook following Steve Jobs' advice, "do what YOU think is right".
Why? Tim Cook proves that ones sexual orientation doesn't matter. It was well known inside the company that he was gay. That didn't stop him from becoming CEO of Apple.
I was thinking the same... Remarkable moment in the history of corporate America will be when statements like this lose importance, because no-one will care any more.
Throwing straw man arguments at me does not change anything. Adding non sequiturs makes it worse. Of course it is not desirable to have children when immature or otherwise not in a position to support them, but it does not follow that the only solution (or even best solution) is abstinence, and it does not follow that abortion is murder.
I was thinking the same... Remarkable moment in the history of corporate America will be when statements like this lose importance, because no-one will care any more.
Throwing straw man arguments at me does not change anything. Adding non sequiturs makes it worse. Of course it is not desirable to have children when immature or otherwise not in a position to support them, but it does not follow that the only solution (or even best solution) is abstinence, and it does not follow that abortion is murder.
The only way to avoid teenage pregnancy is abstinence. PERIOD.
And the only way to guarantee abstinence is....? Right - never been achieved, because it denies a basic, powerful human instinct. So your proposal is both impracticable and onerous to those to whom you seek to deny the behavior. Do you think there were fewer unplanned children before contraception and abortion were available? Luckily there are now other options, even if your religious dogma seeks to discount and criminalize them.
And now I will follow my own advice and just agree to differ, so continue with a monologue if you wish.
And the only way to guarantee abstinence is....? Right - never been achieved, because it denies a basic, powerful human instinct. So your proposal is both impracticable and onerous to those to whom you seek to deny the behavior. Do you think there were fewer unplanned children before contraception and abortion were available? Luckily there are now other options, even if your religious dogma seeks to discount and criminalize them.
And now I will follow my own advice and just agree to differ, so continue with a monologue if you wish.
Not sure where you are but it's nearly 5 here time for a drink Cheers.
Comments
Ye old quote a clichéd term when out of talking points defense.
So many young girls who had children at 15-17 years old have had to deal with emotional scares for decades.
Well of course such potential buyers may want to consider these things.
You are not a compartmentalised box as a person, yet companies can easily be that. I believe that one of the reasons the world is in such a mess is because so many corporations are utterly amoral. Alan Sugar, ex boss of AMSTRAD said "If there was a market for portable nuclear weapons we'd make them". Raytheon doesn't care who dies as long as it gets to sell more weapons to those who can pay for its products. When a company thinks of nothing but it's duty to shareholders and hang people's feelings, the good of the environment or any wider concerns, it can get nasty.
Apple under Tim seems to be a company that takes its responsibility to the world in which it operates very seriously and wants to set an example of best practice in its behaviour as well as its products. Tim, for example, told some guy at a shareholders meeting this year who was worried about Apple's concern over its environmental footprint that he should basically get out of Apple's stock.
In my book, we need far more companies behaving like Apple, who understand that with power, comes responsibility.
I largely agree with your comments, but I also believe it is not Apple's job to fix society or the world. It's their job to provide excellent products to buyers and to keep them coming back, which they continue to do. It's not Apple's place to create the appearance they have a political agenda. If Tim wants to start an organization devoted to gay "rights" or other issues, by all means start an organization and get involved.
If that is what you read into what i said then there is little possibility of a sensible debate. I specifically said that many innocent people have been railroaded simply to appease families of victims. That should not be the prime motive of dealing with crime. I never said crime should not be dealt with fairly. I also said that a serial killer may well need treatment. Mental illness is another topic we probably better not get into.
ok. Something is getting loss in the translation.
My point is two people should not be having 5ex if they are not able to support a child. Because things happen!
OMG dig yourself in deeper. You know the 1950's when those courageous few in Boston worked on the first contraceptive pill had to do it in secret because of crazy ideas like that? It was illegal then for all the same sort of stupid garbage you just said and it's 60 years later.
There's no way this argument reaches resolution, not least because @sog35 has strong fundamentalist religious beliefs that he mistakes for self-evident facts. Agree to differ is the only reasonable outcome.
to here ...?
Of course you are correct. But you know, this old atheist loves Christmas
If you were gay and had just been fired from your job because you were gay, or refused a room in a hotel because you were gay, or violently attacked in the street because you were gay then you might see that some people have a real problem with you and who you are. If Apple can, by example, show that such attitudes are ignorant and damaging then let's have more companies stepping up to the bar. There should be no place, at work or play, for discrimination and inequality in 2014.
There's no way this argument reaches resolution, not least because @sog35 has strong fundamentalist religious beliefs that he mistakes for self-evident facts. Agree to differ is the only reasonable outcome.
So you want your daughter to have kids when shes 15?
I dont consider it strong fundamental beliefs. I considered it common sense.
Look at the statistics. Look at girls who had babies at 15-17 and see how their life turned out. This has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with being responsible.
Throwing straw man arguments at me does not change anything. Adding non sequiturs makes it worse. Of course it is not desirable to have children when immature or otherwise not in a position to support them, but it does not follow that the only solution (or even best solution) is abstinence, and it does not follow that abortion is murder.
....There should be no place, at work or play, for discrimination and inequality in 2014.
Ideally. However, it's really up to the individual. I find that when people work in close quarters with other people, even those whom they disagree, they will usually learn to like something about that other person.
Oh dear.
Have you ever been insulted at in the street because you were straight? Fulminated at and told you'd burn in hell by religious ministers because you were straight? Beaten up and killed because you were straight? Told you were about the same level as paedophiles because you were straight? Refused to be able to see your dying partner in hospital because you were straight? Chucked out of you and your partner's home of 30 years because you were straight and so your relationship was invalid? Offered the choice of chemical castration, as Alan Turing was by the UK government, if you had been straight? Had your children taken from you because you were straight? Lost your job because you were straight? Asked from the age of 12 when you are going to meet a nice boy and settle down? Watched TV programmes filled with only gay couples? Watched films where all the straight lovers met grisly and lonely ends? Read one book after another after another filled with happy gay couples and not a straight couple in sight? Had doctors offer to 'cure' you of your heterosexual attraction? Had your parents disown you and throw you out of your childhood home because you were straight? Lost your best friend because you were straight?
No? Didn't think so.
Would like to take a moment to say thanks for the great debate across all of the topics discussed today in the thread, and for Tim Cook following Steve Jobs' advice, "do what YOU think is right".
I was thinking the same... Remarkable moment in the history of corporate America will be when statements like this lose importance, because no-one will care any more.
Here take the baton ...
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That's the truth.
Sadly, you're probably right. Imagine, if, as a gay man, I were to refuse to buy products from any companies with a straight CEO.
Doesn't that sound weird?
Throwing straw man arguments at me does not change anything. Adding non sequiturs makes it worse. Of course it is not desirable to have children when immature or otherwise not in a position to support them, but it does not follow that the only solution (or even best solution) is abstinence, and it does not follow that abortion is murder.
The only way to avoid teenage pregnancy is abstinence. PERIOD.
And the only way to guarantee abstinence is....? Right - never been achieved, because it denies a basic, powerful human instinct. So your proposal is both impracticable and onerous to those to whom you seek to deny the behavior. Do you think there were fewer unplanned children before contraception and abortion were available? Luckily there are now other options, even if your religious dogma seeks to discount and criminalize them.
And now I will follow my own advice and just agree to differ, so continue with a monologue if you wish.
What a silly thing to say.
I don't practice Buddhism. I certainly don't think it looks stupid.
Buddhism is better classified as a philosophy. Note the lack of an anthropomorphized creator.
How do you feel about Judaism and Islam, both of which are sandwiching the other Abrahamic religion you practice?
I don't practice Catholicism, either. Neither do I think that the Catholic faith looks stupid.
Not sure where you are but it's nearly 5 here time for a drink