Marketshare does not reflect number of customers. It reflects a percentage of customers.
I had a friend who owned a restaurant. He made about $400,000 a year. He didn't have the marketshare that McDonalds has, but the food was better and he acuired new customers through word of mouth. Sure, a few people didn't like the style of cuisine and never came back. So what? And sure, McDonalds is cheaper and quicker and still has more marketshare than my buddy with his one restaurant, but you know what? It didn't matter. He kept making money, he kept charging more for his food and the majority of his customers were happy.
And yes, I realize computing is different than food. The point is you don't have to "rule the world" to exist in it quite happily.
Every PC company other than the glorious Dell have had reduced year over year profits. Dell is having their day. That's cool. Everything that comes eventually goes. Getting to the top isn't the hard part its staying there.
Oh well, you guys can keep saying Apple is doomed. I don't care. It's Friday. You'll believe what you want and probably keep hanging around here for years believing it too.
Good post! We could take a break and come back in three years (and Apple will still being doing well and existing and breaking boundaries and setting the pace), and there will STILL be people here starting threads like this!
"Apple SUX! They're going under this year because my quad G7 is dog-ass sloooooow! I mean we're STILL AT 3.2GHz for crying out loud! Apple blew it...their time has come and gone...they're going under...I'm jumping ship...".
Blah, blah, blah...
(and I'll be on my 1.8GHz 19" LCD Titanium iMac, happy as a clam and still not "getting it").
<strong>And radar still hasn't got his cheap PC running. Leonis' cheap PC is broken (again). And my 3 year old Mac has constantly worked since the day I pulled it out of the box.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
And Eskimo's 3 pc's run 24/7 at 100% cpu load just fine with no need to restart except when I decide to upgrade my operating systems . You ever notice how people who don't know much about fixing cars have cars that break down more often? Same applies to computers. And Apple is like BMW, sure it runs nice for a while, but when you do need to get it repaired its expensive.
You know radar, it's funny that your signature can say "Long live the Mac!", and then you proceed to try and prove that Apple is going to die.
That would be like me keeping my current signature, and bashing the Newton. (BTW, I'm still trying to configure Newtscape to play nice with UBB now that the WaveLan driver is out. )
<strong>There are many, many old threads in Ars Technica's Battlefront showing this.</strong><hr></blockquote>Any chance of a link? I'd like to have a look at the figures.
<strong>Apple will die. It may not be this year, or the year 2005 like I suggested, but like all things, they will die.</strong><hr></blockquote>
yea...in some years some small company is going to create a new OS that is easy, attractive, functional, and powerful. and this company with some skill and some luck will grow and begin to take a strong foothold in the OS...at this point macs will be way more popular with osX on the rise and windows on the fall...but this new OS will catch everybodies attention...and somehow it will grow and grow,and eventally apple will be eaten up.
this made no sense at all....but I don't think apple will simply die...rather they will become something else...
Then use a PC. And why are you here anyway?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Becuase I use and love Macs - always have. I will never jump ship. That's not the problem. The problem is that the time is coming when there may not be any macs left to buy or use. My bosses already are putting pressure on me to dump all my macs for xp stations. What do I do I? find another job? And then when that happens at my next place of work what then? find another job?
Finally when apple no longer have a market share worth any 3rd party develeoper wasting time on where will I be able to buy a mac for my own personal use at home? As their computers get more expensive people who have limited salaries (u would not believe how low wages in the UK are) will not be able to afford them even if they were still on sale.
That's the point. U obviously r a pretty contented fairweather mac user. I would never dream of telling anyone to use a PC - no matter what. People like yourself who are content with the status quo lead to apple's complacency which leads to lack of innovation which leads to stagnation which leads to death.
[quote]My bosses already are putting pressure on me to dump all my macs for xp stations.<hr></blockquote>
You're joking, right? My company is grudgingly moving some workstations over to XP now, and we've found that a TON of stuff is either still in beta or not supported at all. (NAV still has some problems with it). The thing is that our app is part of the .net strategy, so we're doing it, but it's a nightmare to support. :-/
Plus, when you see the future costs of XP and .net, how can you not try and consider other platforms?
[quote]You know radar, it's funny that your signature can say "Long live the Mac!", and then you proceed to try and prove that Apple is going to die. <hr></blockquote>
Funny you should mention that. I still think the Mac is great machine and has its advantages, but it is really not the holy grail you guys make it out to be. For instance, if I was going to buy a laptop, I'd probably get a Mac because they make some of the best. However, their PowerMacs pretty much suck on the hardware front, especially for the enthusiast/gamer market (seriously, $1600 is too much for a decent gaming machine...which it really isn't anyway).
Becuase I use and love Macs - always have. I will never jump ship. That's not the problem. The problem is that the time is coming when there may not be any macs left to buy or use. My bosses already are putting pressure on me to dump all my macs for xp stations. What do I do I? find another job? And then when that happens at my next place of work what then? find another job?
Finally when apple no longer have a market share worth any 3rd party develeoper wasting time on where will I be able to buy a mac for my own personal use at home? As their computers get more expensive people who have limited salaries (u would not believe how low wages in the UK are) will not be able to afford them even if they were still on sale.
That's the point. U obviously r a pretty contented fairweather mac user. I would never dream of telling anyone to use a PC - no matter what. People like yourself who are content with the status quo lead to apple's complacency which leads to lack of innovation which leads to stagnation which leads to death.
macs Rule - lets make sure they always do.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Okay, I am going to say what I can here. I know someone (they may or may not be related, doesn?t matter) who works for an Apple Specialist. Now this isn't just ANY Apple Specialist, it's one of the top 3. The owner is very well known in the Apple corporate world. What I mean by that is this person was traveling with the owner, they came to a client that was having some problems with some machines (I am purposely trying to be vague here) and they were getting the very classic Apple runaround. It's the software not the hardware kind of stuff. He gets on the phone with whom? Jobs. Later in the day new systems are shipping. This guy is in the know. For my acquaintance to work for this specialist he had to sign an Apple NDA. Anyway, what I can put together (this person will not tell me anything directly, just gives me enough hints to put things together) Apple is gearing up to make a push into the Enterprise market like we have never seen before. The rack mount servers TS keeps talking about? True. This guy has clients who want to buy 200-300 Power Macs at a time but cannot and will not due to the size of them. Why do I tell you this? Because look at where Apple is going...look at who they are buying. Those apps you listed Spooky...there is a solution on the way. Apple is waiting for two things to come together:
Hardware Architecture - The G5 will bring Apple to the forefront on many levels. The scientific community. The Hollywood / Effects community. The postproduction community. The current Power Mac design is far from being POWER. We all know this and Apple knows this.
Software - When the fruits of Apple's acquisitions all come together, you will say: You STILL use Avid? Why?
There are rendering farms for DV in LA and Orange County that I have seen that just blew me away. A room just filled to the max with nothing but G4's and glowing little lights. These people want to add more, they always want more processing power but they cannot. Apple is working VERY hard to correct this. This person I know has had conversations with higher ups at Apple regarding the marketing direction Apple will take with this. It will be big.
Along with this will be the CAD market. Apple knows that the average business will not spend the extra money for Macs over PC's. But the effects, postproduction and scientific community spend money like water.
What does this all mean? Apple will never be the market share leader and they really do not strive to be. They want to 'increase' some market share, sure. It's good for the stock. They know they are a niche company and they are fine with that. I think Jobs has them going in the right direction. If he can get over 50% of Hollywood editing and rendering on Macs, Apple will be making a lot of money.
So what is comes down to is this. Apple is slow bringing 'some' technologies to market i.e. DDR RAM, while they are far ahead on others i.e. FireWire, USB, and iMovie. But usually when they do release the technology its pretty much works, the bugs have been weeded out. I think that the future of Apple lies with the G5. They don't make enough money on margins on the iMacs or iBooks to keep afloat. The money is in the servers and Power Macs and that is where they are headed and it will pay off and many of the apps you are looking to work on the Mac will eventually work in the Mac or Apple will release software that is as good or better than the one you are using.
<disclaimer> Some of the ideas here are my opinions and some are actual fact.
In 2005 we can look back on this thread and laugh. Granted it may be a laugh full of vile and rage, but it will be a laugh. If you want to go buy a computer made by a company that will be around in the next 100 years, go buy a IBM, and bugger off.
<strong>So between porn and games you can justify the cost of a PC? Porn must carry a lot of weight.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The point is that he can do those things at the third of the price of a mac that can (which in this case, can't). Not only are PC's faster, they're markedly cheaper.
[quote]seriously, $1600 is too much for a decent gaming machine...which it really isn't anyway<hr></blockquote> Not if gaming is the most enjoyable thing you do. Spending hours a day gaming fully justice it. Just for the record, I don't do games. I'm just pointing out it's up to the individual to decide what it's worth. I guess the new iMac is by the same argument way to expensive for Mr. Joe Sixpack who just used his puter for ordinary consumer tasks such as surfing, changing Email, word processing and ripping Cd's
Comments
<strong>
Actually, it isn't. Apple's worldwide marketshare has been consistently dropping for 2+ years and has been under 3% for over a year.
There are many, many old threads in Ars Technica's Battlefront showing this.
[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: TheAlmightyBabaramm ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Marketshare does not reflect number of customers. It reflects a percentage of customers.
I had a friend who owned a restaurant. He made about $400,000 a year. He didn't have the marketshare that McDonalds has, but the food was better and he acuired new customers through word of mouth. Sure, a few people didn't like the style of cuisine and never came back. So what? And sure, McDonalds is cheaper and quicker and still has more marketshare than my buddy with his one restaurant, but you know what? It didn't matter. He kept making money, he kept charging more for his food and the majority of his customers were happy.
And yes, I realize computing is different than food. The point is you don't have to "rule the world" to exist in it quite happily.
Every PC company other than the glorious Dell have had reduced year over year profits. Dell is having their day. That's cool. Everything that comes eventually goes. Getting to the top isn't the hard part its staying there.
Oh well, you guys can keep saying Apple is doomed. I don't care. It's Friday. You'll believe what you want and probably keep hanging around here for years believing it too.
Have fun!
Good post! We could take a break and come back in three years (and Apple will still being doing well and existing and breaking boundaries and setting the pace), and there will STILL be people here starting threads like this!
"Apple SUX! They're going under this year because my quad G7 is dog-ass sloooooow! I mean we're STILL AT 3.2GHz for crying out loud! Apple blew it...their time has come and gone...they're going under...I'm jumping ship...".
Blah, blah, blah...
(and I'll be on my 1.8GHz 19" LCD Titanium iMac, happy as a clam and still not "getting it").
<strong>And radar still hasn't got his cheap PC running. Leonis' cheap PC is broken (again). And my 3 year old Mac has constantly worked since the day I pulled it out of the box.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
And Eskimo's 3 pc's run 24/7 at 100% cpu load just fine with no need to restart except when I decide to upgrade my operating systems
That would be like me keeping my current signature, and bashing the Newton. (BTW, I'm still trying to configure Newtscape to play nice with UBB now that the WaveLan driver is out.
<strong>There are many, many old threads in Ars Technica's Battlefront showing this.</strong><hr></blockquote>Any chance of a link? I'd like to have a look at the figures.
<strong>Apple will die. It may not be this year, or the year 2005 like I suggested, but like all things, they will die.</strong><hr></blockquote>
yea...in some years some small company is going to create a new OS that is easy, attractive, functional, and powerful. and this company with some skill and some luck will grow and begin to take a strong foothold in the OS...at this point macs will be way more popular with osX on the rise and windows on the fall...but this new OS will catch everybodies attention...and somehow it will grow and grow,and eventally apple will be eaten up.
this made no sense at all....but I don't think apple will simply die...rather they will become something else...
<strong>
Then use a PC. And why are you here anyway?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Becuase I use and love Macs - always have. I will never jump ship. That's not the problem. The problem is that the time is coming when there may not be any macs left to buy or use. My bosses already are putting pressure on me to dump all my macs for xp stations. What do I do I? find another job? And then when that happens at my next place of work what then? find another job?
Finally when apple no longer have a market share worth any 3rd party develeoper wasting time on where will I be able to buy a mac for my own personal use at home? As their computers get more expensive people who have limited salaries (u would not believe how low wages in the UK are) will not be able to afford them even if they were still on sale.
That's the point. U obviously r a pretty contented fairweather mac user. I would never dream of telling anyone to use a PC - no matter what. People like yourself who are content with the status quo lead to apple's complacency which leads to lack of innovation which leads to stagnation which leads to death.
macs Rule - lets make sure they always do.
You're joking, right? My company is grudgingly moving some workstations over to XP now, and we've found that a TON of stuff is either still in beta or not supported at all. (NAV still has some problems with it). The thing is that our app is part of the .net strategy, so we're doing it, but it's a nightmare to support. :-/
Plus, when you see the future costs of XP and .net, how can you not try and consider other platforms?
Funny you should mention that. I still think the Mac is great machine and has its advantages, but it is really not the holy grail you guys make it out to be. For instance, if I was going to buy a laptop, I'd probably get a Mac because they make some of the best. However, their PowerMacs pretty much suck on the hardware front, especially for the enthusiast/gamer market (seriously, $1600 is too much for a decent gaming machine...which it really isn't anyway).
<strong>
Becuase I use and love Macs - always have. I will never jump ship. That's not the problem. The problem is that the time is coming when there may not be any macs left to buy or use. My bosses already are putting pressure on me to dump all my macs for xp stations. What do I do I? find another job? And then when that happens at my next place of work what then? find another job?
Finally when apple no longer have a market share worth any 3rd party develeoper wasting time on where will I be able to buy a mac for my own personal use at home? As their computers get more expensive people who have limited salaries (u would not believe how low wages in the UK are) will not be able to afford them even if they were still on sale.
That's the point. U obviously r a pretty contented fairweather mac user. I would never dream of telling anyone to use a PC - no matter what. People like yourself who are content with the status quo lead to apple's complacency which leads to lack of innovation which leads to stagnation which leads to death.
macs Rule - lets make sure they always do.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Okay, I am going to say what I can here. I know someone (they may or may not be related, doesn?t matter) who works for an Apple Specialist. Now this isn't just ANY Apple Specialist, it's one of the top 3. The owner is very well known in the Apple corporate world. What I mean by that is this person was traveling with the owner, they came to a client that was having some problems with some machines (I am purposely trying to be vague here) and they were getting the very classic Apple runaround. It's the software not the hardware kind of stuff. He gets on the phone with whom? Jobs. Later in the day new systems are shipping. This guy is in the know. For my acquaintance to work for this specialist he had to sign an Apple NDA. Anyway, what I can put together (this person will not tell me anything directly, just gives me enough hints to put things together) Apple is gearing up to make a push into the Enterprise market like we have never seen before. The rack mount servers TS keeps talking about? True. This guy has clients who want to buy 200-300 Power Macs at a time but cannot and will not due to the size of them. Why do I tell you this? Because look at where Apple is going...look at who they are buying. Those apps you listed Spooky...there is a solution on the way. Apple is waiting for two things to come together:
- Hardware Architecture - The G5 will bring Apple to the forefront on many levels. The scientific community. The Hollywood / Effects community. The postproduction community. The current Power Mac design is far from being POWER. We all know this and Apple knows this.
- Software - When the fruits of Apple's acquisitions all come together, you will say: You STILL use Avid? Why?
There are rendering farms for DV in LA and Orange County that I have seen that just blew me away. A room just filled to the max with nothing but G4's and glowing little lights. These people want to add more, they always want more processing power but they cannot. Apple is working VERY hard to correct this. This person I know has had conversations with higher ups at Apple regarding the marketing direction Apple will take with this. It will be big.Along with this will be the CAD market. Apple knows that the average business will not spend the extra money for Macs over PC's. But the effects, postproduction and scientific community spend money like water.
What does this all mean? Apple will never be the market share leader and they really do not strive to be. They want to 'increase' some market share, sure. It's good for the stock. They know they are a niche company and they are fine with that. I think Jobs has them going in the right direction. If he can get over 50% of Hollywood editing and rendering on Macs, Apple will be making a lot of money.
So what is comes down to is this. Apple is slow bringing 'some' technologies to market i.e. DDR RAM, while they are far ahead on others i.e. FireWire, USB, and iMovie. But usually when they do release the technology its pretty much works, the bugs have been weeded out. I think that the future of Apple lies with the G5. They don't make enough money on margins on the iMacs or iBooks to keep afloat. The money is in the servers and Power Macs and that is where they are headed and it will pay off and many of the apps you are looking to work on the Mac will eventually work in the Mac or Apple will release software that is as good or better than the one you are using.
<disclaimer> Some of the ideas here are my opinions and some are actual fact.
[ 04-06-2002: Message edited by: Bodhi ]</p>
I wholeheartedly agree. One should not be spending more than $300 on any device to exclusively play games.
Well, I also plan to do, umm...some internet browsing on my new PC...uh huh, that's right...
<strong>So between porn and games you can justify the cost of a PC? Porn must carry a lot of weight.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The point is that he can do those things at the third of the price of a mac that can (which in this case, can't). Not only are PC's faster, they're markedly cheaper.
<strong>Most porn on the internet is just straight up nasty.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There's plenty of good stuff too.