My Office uses are Word focused. I only use simple functions on Excel - and can at least understand how to format output on Numbers - something which has never made sense to me in any version of opaque Excel. Despite trying to figure it out over more years than I care to mention. So a Numbers guy now.
And while PP is functional, Keynote is far superior IMO.
But I create and share a lot of Word Docs with the world. And have already (and unfortunately) experienced what happens when you're in a format most people can't open or edit - I have 10,000 or more "legacy" Word Perfect Docs that require me to have a Boot Camp partition to get at - and one at time imperfect conversions take time I don't have.
So while WordPerfect is still even today a far superior character processing tool, and Pages may be as well, Word's .doc/.docx formats are the world's lingua franca and so Word is the word (since most of us can't easily edit PDFs).
And I can't tell you why in detail, but I find Word 2011 on the Mac far more frustrating/limiting from my perspective than Word 2010 or Word 2007 for Windows.
So parity will be welcome here. As long as I don't have buy into a subscription model to the whole suite to get the one program I use.
Excel: I actually think this is Microsoft's best program - it has never crashed or failed and it has great functionality. But I'll agree that some of the very advanced functionality is opaque and I don't use it, but I do use far more than Numbers can provide. I can't say that I understand how to use every Function in the program, but I know enough that even my daughter's tax accountant couldn't figure out how I got numbers to automatically appear in the correct column based upon the category. I've tried to use Numbers, but IMO, it simply doesn't have enough functionality. The one advantage to Numbers is that it permits you to overlay different spreadsheet "blocks" on the same sheet. Excel doesn't have that and it doesn't look like the new version is going to have it either. I really would have liked that feature because it would better enable me to include different types of data on the same sheet.
Word: While I find that Mac and Windows files are compatible, there are some formatting differences as well as differences with Notes and Review functionality that causes some frustration in versions up until now. But especially on large documents, I find Word Windows to be filled with bugs and design flaws that drive me nuts as well as performance issues. The "Keep with Next" function doesn't always work and if you don't put in enough line spaces before placing an image (like a screen shot when writing documentation), you can wind up with improperly formatted text or the inability to type where you want to. And although I can get the Styles functionality to work, it's non-intuitive and if you change the formatting of a style and you tell it to update all incidences of that Style, it doesn't always update them properly. Numbering doesn't always work correctly either. Table of Contents generation is another area that needs vast UI improvement. And if you're not using Styles and Word tries to automatically apply the correct style, it gets it wrong 90% of the time, even when doing something as simple as Copying and Pasting, in which case it should keep the source style. Etc.
Keynote: Definitely agree that Keynote blows away Powerpoint.
Completely agree with you on legacy issues. I have some old MacWrite Pro documents that I would really like some access to, but I haven't been able to find any conversion programs for them. But I also have some early Mac Excel documents that current Excel will not open. There's no excuse for that. If Microsoft didn't want to include the converter within Excel, they could have at least provided a separate utility.
WARNING ON THE PREVIEW:
I downloaded the preview. Outlook did not work - it tried to import my Outlook data and it claimed there was a problem with the file. Excel seemed to work okay, although aside from some cosmetics (mainly on the sheet Tabs), I don't really see any enhanced functionality or huge differences. Didn't try Word as yet.
While the installation did not overwrite the older versions of the apps, it did change the configuration. In Excel, it changed a bunch of preferences. In Outlook 2011, at first it looked like it thought I was installing it for the first time, but eventually it came up again with all my data, so don't freak out when you go back to 2011 - just let it do its thing. But it also changed numerous preferences such as which fields display and the screen layout. But changing the preferences in the new version doesn't change them in the old. So I'm not sure what they're doing, but I think I'm now sorry I tried the preview.
I give Microsoft credit for taking their time to upgrade Office and giving it new and improved features. I really dislike companies (like Adobe **cough**cough**, er Adobe - whoops, did I say Adobe?) that update apps relentlessly with dubious "improvements" just to cash in on users spending money to "upgrade".
And what new and improved features have you found? Because aside from some font changes in menus and a new look for the bottom Tabs in Excel, I haven't really found any yet, although I haven't spent a hell of a lot of time with the new versions yet.
One thing for sure - I am NOT buying a subscription to get the new version. I have the standalone version of Office 2011 and paid for that just once.
No way will I get on the yearly-fee treadmill.
Um... why not? You get free OneDrive with theoretically unlimited storage, and upgrades are part of the deal... I've been using the latest and greatest version of Outlook for a while now specifically because I'm on the "fee treadmill."
It feels like a win for me.
Your mileage is not the same as mine. You have quite a bit to use it for as I did before I retired. But now it's a "compatibility" thing rather than an everyday one (or even every-week, some weeks).
Does it finally support CalDAV and CardDAV so that it can sync calendars and contacts with iOS devices?
Nope, just tried. Outlook is the same P-O-S, with a different skin. So so disappointing. This is supported on the Windows version and even the iPad version? WTF is going on?
Test the preview. (It is a type of beta)It is free and co exists with your Office 2011. You can always delete it.
My family uses a a variety of phones, iPads, iPods, Mac, Windows tablets, and Windows Computers ( Home, Office and School environments).
Interoperability is, for us, a critical element. iCloud is a critical component for us.
Right now, our iCalendar and contacts list in iCloud work perfectly across all of our platforms. We use OneDrive extensively. Would use iCloud Drive except that Apple has not stepped up to the excellence shown in Microsoft's approach and coverage.
Word and Excel in Office 2016-MAC seem to work very well so far. They are much more look and feel similar to Office 2013 on Windows. HOWEVER OUTLOOK is a problem.
If has a comfortable look and feel , and better that average account set up . However it does not support iCalendar or Contacts and there is no provision for syncing them or even importing them. Also, the import function for existing Outlook.pst files doesn't work ( essentially little was transferred) and the log file is useless in providing diagnostics.
All of this has been communicated to Microsoft in the hope o giving them useful feedback.
If you wish to use Office 2016, Try the Preview and give them feedback. Microsoft has much to gain from supporting the MAC community. Give them a chance to show they can.
Test the preview. (It is a type of beta)It is free and co exists with your Office 2011. You can always delete it.
If has a comfortable look and feel , and better that average account set up . However it does not support iCalendar or Contacts and there is no provision for syncing them or even importing them. Also, the import function for existing Outlook.pst files doesn't work ( essentially little was transferred) and the log file is useless in providing diagnostics.
All of this has been communicated to Microsoft in the hope o giving them useful feedback.
If you wish to use Office 2016, Try the Preview and give them feedback. Microsoft has much to gain from supporting the MAC community. Give them a chance to show they can.
I took it off my Mac. I found it was causing weird bugs in Office 2011. It completely changed my configuration, new Outlook didn't work at all and when Copy/Paste stopped working in Office 2011, I gave up and took it off. Will wait for a less buggy version.
And if Outlook cal and address book still won't sync, I won't need the new version at all. Didn't really notice any new features other than cosmetics.
Most of our computers are windows 8 or 7. Between school and office, we are constantly using Microsoft office. We also have volunteer roles in several not for profits where we maintain and use group email lists to manage communications, newsletter distributions, etc. So any solution that keeps Microsoft office products out of our portfolio is a barrier to our conversions to Mac computers. We have one Mac but due to such barriers, we have not gone further.
We also value interoperability between platforms very highly. So we will probably keep using both Apple and Windows tablets and computers. Long into the future. We have centered in iPhones after suffering with a few androids. Haven't used a windows phone so far, but who knows.
Point being, that I tend to discount opinions that seem to be overly influenced by either love or hate affairs with a product.
The preview Word, PowerPoint and Excel 2016 products seem to be a step forward. They look and feel much like the 2013 products in Windows versions. I feel confident so far that they will be a useful improvement over their 2011 predecessors. I fully expect to either buy office or subscriber to365. Haven't decided.
However cannot say same so far for the previewed Outlook. While it has the improved look and feel, it has no facility for importing contacts or calendars form the windows equivalents, nor does it have any means to sync with iCloud contacts or Calendar. So far Microsoft is silent on whether they ever intend to add these features. (They readily admit the lack of these features in their KB and Faqs). So court is out on whether Outlook is a useful product for anyone valuing interoperability or valuing not retyping all of their contacts and group lists.
Microsoft can and should do better. Anyone listening?
Can not wait to try it. Hopefully this version will be compatible with iCloud especially for Calendar and contacts.
Nope. CardDAV and CalDAV are definitely not supported. In fact, one of their support people said it would be at least a couple of years if they do it at all. (In other news, Microsoft has designed a spacecraft which saves weight by doing away with oxygen systems for the passenger compartment.)
Someone else also noted that it doesn't have scripting, which means that SpamSieve can't work.
When you add up all the new stuff plus these, the new version earns a rating of -3 of 10. What the heck were they thinking?!?
Have been testing the preview. Installed every update offered. Word, excel and PowerPoint are very good. However Outlook still definitely does not support Apple contacts or Calendars. ( same issue exists on the version of Outlook for IOS).
Have provided many reports to Microsoft via their built In Feedback tool. Hopefully they will add, but concerned seeing your comment that they have no plans to do so for " years"
Nope. CardDAV and CalDAV are definitely not supported. In fact, one of their support people said it would be at least a couple of years if they do it at all. (In other news, Microsoft has designed a spacecraft which saves weight by doing away with oxygen systems for the passenger compartment.)
Someone else also noted that it doesn't have scripting, which means that SpamSieve can't work.
When you add up all the new stuff plus these, the new version earns a rating of -3 of 10. What the heck were they thinking?!?
I really don't understand this. What was the point of releasing a new Mac version if I can't keep the cal and address book in sync? Why do we keep taking steps backwards? I don't know whether to blame Apple or Microsoft, but I really don't see why Sync Services can't still work to keep Apple's address book and calendar in sync with Microsoft and then use iCloud to keep the address book and cal in sync with phone, etc. As far as I can tell if you use Sync Services, you can't use iCloud and vice-versa.
Or, I'd be satisfied if an all-Microsoft solution (Outlook for both Mac OS and iOS) kept everything in sync. But something's got to keep it all in sync. I've kept Outlook up until now because I preferred it for business and my clients use Outlook. But I think I'm about ready to give up Outlook and just use Apple Mail. I'm already now only using the Apple address book and Calendar. But I'm not happy about it. I think Apple's calendar is a bit of a mess. This business of having different labeled calendars for the computer and the Cloud is absurd. And you can't get rid of a category without deleting all the calendar events associated with that category. You should be able to do a global search and replace of categories. For all the resources these companies put into these products, they wind up acting like they were designed by two guys in a garage.
For all the resources these companies put into these products, they wind up acting like they were designed by two guys in a garage.
Two guys in a garage would do a better job. (Smaller teams, especially one person, tend to produce more consistent software. Plus they tend to be hungry and anxious for their work to succeed.) It takes a committee to screw it up that bad.
Regarding OneDrive, just to warn you, I stopped using One Drive after I found that it had the usual Microsoft problem of not being able to cope with files that had certain characters in their names. This convention I believe goes all the way back to DOS! Too bad they haven't caught up with the rest of the world.
Comments
My Office uses are Word focused. I only use simple functions on Excel - and can at least understand how to format output on Numbers - something which has never made sense to me in any version of opaque Excel. Despite trying to figure it out over more years than I care to mention. So a Numbers guy now.
And while PP is functional, Keynote is far superior IMO.
But I create and share a lot of Word Docs with the world. And have already (and unfortunately) experienced what happens when you're in a format most people can't open or edit - I have 10,000 or more "legacy" Word Perfect Docs that require me to have a Boot Camp partition to get at - and one at time imperfect conversions take time I don't have.
So while WordPerfect is still even today a far superior character processing tool, and Pages may be as well, Word's .doc/.docx formats are the world's lingua franca and so Word is the word (since most of us can't easily edit PDFs).
And I can't tell you why in detail, but I find Word 2011 on the Mac far more frustrating/limiting from my perspective than Word 2010 or Word 2007 for Windows.
So parity will be welcome here. As long as I don't have buy into a subscription model to the whole suite to get the one program I use.
Excel: I actually think this is Microsoft's best program - it has never crashed or failed and it has great functionality. But I'll agree that some of the very advanced functionality is opaque and I don't use it, but I do use far more than Numbers can provide. I can't say that I understand how to use every Function in the program, but I know enough that even my daughter's tax accountant couldn't figure out how I got numbers to automatically appear in the correct column based upon the category. I've tried to use Numbers, but IMO, it simply doesn't have enough functionality. The one advantage to Numbers is that it permits you to overlay different spreadsheet "blocks" on the same sheet. Excel doesn't have that and it doesn't look like the new version is going to have it either. I really would have liked that feature because it would better enable me to include different types of data on the same sheet.
Word: While I find that Mac and Windows files are compatible, there are some formatting differences as well as differences with Notes and Review functionality that causes some frustration in versions up until now. But especially on large documents, I find Word Windows to be filled with bugs and design flaws that drive me nuts as well as performance issues. The "Keep with Next" function doesn't always work and if you don't put in enough line spaces before placing an image (like a screen shot when writing documentation), you can wind up with improperly formatted text or the inability to type where you want to. And although I can get the Styles functionality to work, it's non-intuitive and if you change the formatting of a style and you tell it to update all incidences of that Style, it doesn't always update them properly. Numbering doesn't always work correctly either. Table of Contents generation is another area that needs vast UI improvement. And if you're not using Styles and Word tries to automatically apply the correct style, it gets it wrong 90% of the time, even when doing something as simple as Copying and Pasting, in which case it should keep the source style. Etc.
Keynote: Definitely agree that Keynote blows away Powerpoint.
Completely agree with you on legacy issues. I have some old MacWrite Pro documents that I would really like some access to, but I haven't been able to find any conversion programs for them. But I also have some early Mac Excel documents that current Excel will not open. There's no excuse for that. If Microsoft didn't want to include the converter within Excel, they could have at least provided a separate utility.
WARNING ON THE PREVIEW:
I downloaded the preview. Outlook did not work - it tried to import my Outlook data and it claimed there was a problem with the file. Excel seemed to work okay, although aside from some cosmetics (mainly on the sheet Tabs), I don't really see any enhanced functionality or huge differences. Didn't try Word as yet.
While the installation did not overwrite the older versions of the apps, it did change the configuration. In Excel, it changed a bunch of preferences. In Outlook 2011, at first it looked like it thought I was installing it for the first time, but eventually it came up again with all my data, so don't freak out when you go back to 2011 - just let it do its thing. But it also changed numerous preferences such as which fields display and the screen layout. But changing the preferences in the new version doesn't change them in the old. So I'm not sure what they're doing, but I think I'm now sorry I tried the preview.
I give Microsoft credit for taking their time to upgrade Office and giving it new and improved features. I really dislike companies (like Adobe **cough**cough**, er Adobe - whoops, did I say Adobe?) that update apps relentlessly with dubious "improvements" just to cash in on users spending money to "upgrade".
And what new and improved features have you found? Because aside from some font changes in menus and a new look for the bottom Tabs in Excel, I haven't really found any yet, although I haven't spent a hell of a lot of time with the new versions yet.
A.
One thing for sure - I am NOT buying a subscription to get the new version. I have the standalone version of Office 2011 and paid for that just once.
No way will I get on the yearly-fee treadmill.
Um... why not? You get free OneDrive with theoretically unlimited storage, and upgrades are part of the deal... I've been using the latest and greatest version of Outlook for a while now specifically because I'm on the "fee treadmill."
It feels like a win for me.
Your mileage is not the same as mine. You have quite a bit to use it for as I did before I retired. But now it's a "compatibility" thing rather than an everyday one (or even every-week, some weeks).
Subscription works for you but not for me.
Does it finally support CalDAV and CardDAV so that it can sync calendars and contacts with iOS devices?
Nope, just tried. Outlook is the same P-O-S, with a different skin. So so disappointing. This is supported on the Windows version and even the iPad version? WTF is going on?
My family uses a a variety of phones, iPads, iPods, Mac, Windows tablets, and Windows Computers ( Home, Office and School environments).
Interoperability is, for us, a critical element. iCloud is a critical component for us.
Right now, our iCalendar and contacts list in iCloud work perfectly across all of our platforms. We use OneDrive extensively. Would use iCloud Drive except that Apple has not stepped up to the excellence shown in Microsoft's approach and coverage.
Word and Excel in Office 2016-MAC seem to work very well so far. They are much more look and feel similar to Office 2013 on Windows. HOWEVER OUTLOOK is a problem.
If has a comfortable look and feel , and better that average account set up . However it does not support iCalendar or Contacts and there is no provision for syncing them or even importing them. Also, the import function for existing Outlook.pst files doesn't work ( essentially little was transferred) and the log file is useless in providing diagnostics.
All of this has been communicated to Microsoft in the hope o giving them useful feedback.
If you wish to use Office 2016, Try the Preview and give them feedback. Microsoft has much to gain from supporting the MAC community. Give them a chance to show they can.
I took it off my Mac. I found it was causing weird bugs in Office 2011. It completely changed my configuration, new Outlook didn't work at all and when Copy/Paste stopped working in Office 2011, I gave up and took it off. Will wait for a less buggy version.
And if Outlook cal and address book still won't sync, I won't need the new version at all. Didn't really notice any new features other than cosmetics.
We also value interoperability between platforms very highly. So we will probably keep using both Apple and Windows tablets and computers. Long into the future. We have centered in iPhones after suffering with a few androids. Haven't used a windows phone so far, but who knows.
Point being, that I tend to discount opinions that seem to be overly influenced by either love or hate affairs with a product.
The preview Word, PowerPoint and Excel 2016 products seem to be a step forward. They look and feel much like the 2013 products in Windows versions. I feel confident so far that they will be a useful improvement over their 2011 predecessors. I fully expect to either buy office or subscriber to365. Haven't decided.
However cannot say same so far for the previewed Outlook. While it has the improved look and feel, it has no facility for importing contacts or calendars form the windows equivalents, nor does it have any means to sync with iCloud contacts or Calendar. So far Microsoft is silent on whether they ever intend to add these features. (They readily admit the lack of these features in their KB and Faqs). So court is out on whether Outlook is a useful product for anyone valuing interoperability or valuing not retyping all of their contacts and group lists.
Microsoft can and should do better. Anyone listening?
Can not wait to try it. Hopefully this version will be compatible with iCloud especially for Calendar and contacts.
Nope. CardDAV and CalDAV are definitely not supported. In fact, one of their support people said it would be at least a couple of years if they do it at all. (In other news, Microsoft has designed a spacecraft which saves weight by doing away with oxygen systems for the passenger compartment.)
Someone else also noted that it doesn't have scripting, which means that SpamSieve can't work.
When you add up all the new stuff plus these, the new version earns a rating of -3 of 10. What the heck were they thinking?!?
Have provided many reports to Microsoft via their built In Feedback tool. Hopefully they will add, but concerned seeing your comment that they have no plans to do so for " years"
Nope. CardDAV and CalDAV are definitely not supported. In fact, one of their support people said it would be at least a couple of years if they do it at all. (In other news, Microsoft has designed a spacecraft which saves weight by doing away with oxygen systems for the passenger compartment.)
Someone else also noted that it doesn't have scripting, which means that SpamSieve can't work.
When you add up all the new stuff plus these, the new version earns a rating of -3 of 10. What the heck were they thinking?!?
I really don't understand this. What was the point of releasing a new Mac version if I can't keep the cal and address book in sync? Why do we keep taking steps backwards? I don't know whether to blame Apple or Microsoft, but I really don't see why Sync Services can't still work to keep Apple's address book and calendar in sync with Microsoft and then use iCloud to keep the address book and cal in sync with phone, etc. As far as I can tell if you use Sync Services, you can't use iCloud and vice-versa.
Or, I'd be satisfied if an all-Microsoft solution (Outlook for both Mac OS and iOS) kept everything in sync. But something's got to keep it all in sync. I've kept Outlook up until now because I preferred it for business and my clients use Outlook. But I think I'm about ready to give up Outlook and just use Apple Mail. I'm already now only using the Apple address book and Calendar. But I'm not happy about it. I think Apple's calendar is a bit of a mess. This business of having different labeled calendars for the computer and the Cloud is absurd. And you can't get rid of a category without deleting all the calendar events associated with that category. You should be able to do a global search and replace of categories. For all the resources these companies put into these products, they wind up acting like they were designed by two guys in a garage.
For all the resources these companies put into these products, they wind up acting like they were designed by two guys in a garage.
Two guys in a garage would do a better job. (Smaller teams, especially one person, tend to produce more consistent software. Plus they tend to be hungry and anxious for their work to succeed.) It takes a committee to screw it up that bad.
Regarding OneDrive, just to warn you, I stopped using One Drive after I found that it had the usual Microsoft problem of not being able to cope with files that had certain characters in their names. This convention I believe goes all the way back to DOS! Too bad they haven't caught up with the rest of the world.