Google I/O 2015 sets a low bar for Apple's WWDC to leap

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  • Reply 81 of 295
    clexmanclexman Posts: 166member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MazeCookie View Post

     

     

    Either trolling or stupid. Regardless I will bite.

     

    Google did not pull out. Do you think they will shy away from harvesting more data? They were forced out. It is not something to brag about.

     

    Apple Maps does not have a long way to go. It needs better search, and in some areas, slightly better accuracy.

     

    Apple is far from a me too company. They are a "let's do it right, when the time is right" company.

    Lets run down your list:

     

    Maps - Google was not first. iPhone OS 1 ran Maps before Android was even announced. It was a collaborative effort between both Google and Apple.

     

    Mobile Payments - an example of when the time is right. Google Wallet sucked, had little to no adoption and insecurely processed cards. Google made software, but cannot execute on a project.

    Then comes along Apple, with a completely different, better approach. They partnered with banks, the payment networks, retailers, and merchants, to create their service. They helped retailers adopt and transition NFC terminals.

    Now Google, the me-too company, has copied like-for-like Apple's implementation, and will use the groundwork Apple has laid with the banks, payment networks and merchants.

     

    Big Phones - Really? Haha. Apple has used a wide variety of screen sizes for decades. Theres an 1.5inch iPod, a 3.5inch iPhone, 4inch iPhone, 7inch iPad, 9inch iPad, 11, 13, 15 and 17 inch MacBook, 21.5inch and 27inch iMac. Do you think Apple is a me too company for choosing a display size for their device? Haha

    One day, if Apple transitions to a quad core processor for their iPhones, will you say they copied again?

     

    Photo editing software that syncs to the web - you mean like with iPhoto and MobileMe?


    Lets see... I've been a Mac user since the original Mac. I moved to Windows until Jobs came back and started making worthwhile products again.

     

    China - Google did pull out. China asked them to censor search, Google said no and left.

     

    Maps - A mapping app only needs to do a couple things. Find what you are looking for and get you there. If you are not the best at it, then why would I use your app. Google Maps has had a mobile app long before the iPhone was even a thought. That's why Apple tapped them for the iPhone. I was using the Google Maps app on my Blackberry and flip phones years before iPhone.

     

    Photos - Before iPhoto and MobileMe (2008) there was Google Picasa (2002).

     

    Phone size - I only bring this up because Steve Jobs notoriously made fun of the large Android phones only to move the iPhone in the same direction.

     

    Me too - The story here touts Apple for innovation and being the first to offer XXX. It also touts them for taking an idea and making it better. You can't talk about it being a big deal to be first AND it being a big deal to not be first in the same breath. The modern Desktop UI was Xerox first and Apple second...

     

    With 2 Retina Macbook Pros, Apple TV, AirPort, TimeCapsule and 5 iPhones in my home, I am 100% Apple fanboy, but just like I don't vote along party lines for any politician, I listen to what both sides offer and make an informed decision.

  • Reply 82 of 295
    People forget that Apple was the first to launch a 17" laptop, and they were (I believe) the first to launch a 30" computer monitor. Apple understands people want bigger screens very well.

    They also forget that a 3.5" phone screen was huge when it launched in 2007.

    Or, more likely, they didn't forget and they're just trolls.

    I guess you forgot about Steve Jobs saying that Apple would never make any phone larger than 4" because that's the perfect size and people wouldn't buy bigger? It's okay for Apple to admit their errors as well because they aren't perfect either
  • Reply 83 of 295
    portcityportcity Posts: 68member
    This article is some pretty bad Google bashing even by Apple's standards. I mainly use Apple services but I do admire other companies innovations as well. The article is missing some very important facts that readers need to be aware of. First off is that Android OS adoption rates are low because outside of the Nexus devices, the update is dependent on the carrier and not the individual. Second, many believe that IOS 9 will more focused on improving the overall experience and security of iOS. Nobody has a problem with this but when Google announces this for Android M there is a problem? Lol. Also, if Google is offering unlimited photo storage for free, why is Apple steal only giving us a measly 5 GB for free?Lastly, not even Apple is at the forefront of every technology. When a new Apple TV and music streaming service is announced next month, people with Roku's and Spotify will be saying "Apple is just now doing that?" There isn't one company that is at the cutting edge of everything. This is good for the consumer and it encourages companies to constantly improve themselves.
  • Reply 84 of 295
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,252member

    So, bragging about Google being locked out of the fastest growing economy in the world is okay. There is no doubt Google is salivating over the billions Apple is earning in China. At the rate Apple is growing in China, Apple's yearly China earnings will surpass Google's worldwide yearly earnings.
    All Google has to do is agree to Chinese rules on censorship and access to citizen accounts. China believes it has an obligation to shield their people from undue influences and if closely monitoring them is a necessary step to protect them from themselves then so be it. Apparently the potential profits, as you put it "the billions they're salivating over" is not yet enough to get Google to change their objections to some of it. Guess they're not salivating enough.

    It's not that the Chinese don't want them there. They have to play by Chinese rules to do so which seems eminently fair. In this case the money is obviously of lesser importance. Other companies have a different outlook on it, which is neither good nor evil. It's just different business goals and plans driving different decisions.
  • Reply 85 of 295
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    clexman wrote: »
    You can't complain about Google stealing ideas from Apple, when Apple is one of the biggest, "Me Too," companies out there. Maps on phones, Google first Apple second. Mobile payments, Google first Apple second. Big phones, Google first Apple second. Photo editing software that syncs to the web, Google first Apple second.

    Incorrect.

    Apple's original iPhone set the bar for maps on phones, it was a choice implementation; android's came after.

    Apple was also first with a quality mobile payments solution using NFC tokenization; android's came after.

    Google didn't release a big phone, you're thinking of Samsung, however size is not a feature, it's an option, like buying an XL shirt. Ive said in he New Yorker interview they tried some years ago with the 4, but they were too thick and clunky at the time; they brought them back now that it's thin enough.

    Apple's mobile/desktop/web archive of editable photos is already out; android's came after.

    ...so, in short, get a clue.
  • Reply 86 of 295
    t0mat0t0mat0 Posts: 58member
    OS version adoption: Fair point - the wiki Android historical version distribution illustration at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history shows the issue - It's been taking ~12 months for an OS to filter through) - so most are getting OS updates via a new handset, or a long wait (if they can get an update at all).
    iOS numbers seem to suggest near saturation of iPhones getting the latest update they can get - (you'd expect a certain percentage unable to go past iOS7 (iPad 1, iPhones up to iPhone 4's).
    Even after the update mess-up they had (CDN issue or otherwise).

    So with L at 10% , it's going to take longer for that to filter through, same for M - basically whilst iOS can do point updates, bug fixes, Android's screwed in that regard - see the glacial update rate for critical security updates.

    Apple historically has been awful at Services and Social. Google's above Apple in both.
    For balance - it's a pity you haven't mentioned their work on VR (and Youtube is a strong video and music entity - streaming video, music service is in some ways ahead of Apple who dropped the ball on streaming in a big way).
    Google's developer pages, A/B testing - their developer side is in some ways ahead - Apple's made a few steps at last WWDC but their are still big frustrations dealing with iOS that Android doesn't have so much.
    Maps - Apple's still playing multi year catch up.
    Granular permissions - now with Android - iOS is lacking a macro change all permissions (eg needed perhaps when starting to deal with all permissions editing for Apple watch notifications).
  • Reply 87 of 295
    gatorguy wrote: »
    All Google has to do is agree to Chinese rules on censorship and access to citizen accounts. China believes it has an obligation to shield their people from undue influences and if closely monitoring them is a necessary step to protect them from themselves then so be it. Apparently the potential profits, as you put it "the billions they're salivating over" is not yet enough to get Google to change their objections to some of it. Guess they're not salivating enough.

    It's not that the Chinese don't want them there. They have to play by Chinese rules to do so which seems eminently fair. In this case the money is obviously of lesser importance. Other companies have a different outlook on it, which is neither good nor evil. It's just different business goals and plans driving different decisions.

    China wanted to have access to Google's customers data and in order to protect their users, Google pulled out as any good company should have done.
  • Reply 88 of 295
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    Didn't Facebook do the same thing? Even if you delete a photo... it still lives on their servers forever?

    What ever happened to that?

    FB sucks, too. if FB is the bar for Google, it ain't good.
  • Reply 89 of 295
    nolamacguy wrote: »
    Incorrect.

    Apple's original iPhone set the bar for maps on phones, it was a choice implementation; android's came after.

    Apple was also first with a quality mobile payments solution using NFC tokenization; android's came after.

    Google didn't release a big phone, you're thinking of Samsung, however size is not a feature, it's an option, like buying an XL shirt.

    Apple's web archive of editable photos is already out; android's came after.

    ...so, in short, get a clue.

    To be fair Google has had a Web photo platform for much longer than Apple. This newest release is just a more updated one.
  • Reply 90 of 295
    This whole article is one big fanboy Google bashing. Is this really what being an Apple customer is supposed to be about?
  • Reply 91 of 295
    mazecookiemazecookie Posts: 163member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by clexman View Post

     

    Lets see... I've been a Mac user since the original Mac. I moved to Windows until Jobs came back and started making worthwhile products again.

     

    China - Google did pull out. China asked them to censor search, Google said no and left.

     

    Maps - A mapping app only needs to do a couple things. Find what you are looking for and get you there. If you are not the best at it, then why would I use your app. Google Maps has had a mobile app long before the iPhone was even a thought. That's why Apple tapped them for the iPhone. I was using the Google Maps app on my Blackberry and flip phones years before iPhone.

     

    Photos - Before iPhoto and MobileMe (2008) there was Google Picasa (2002).

     

    Phone size - I only bring this up because Steve Jobs notoriously made fun of the large Android phones only to move the iPhone in the same direction.

     

    Me too - The story here touts Apple for innovation and being the first to offer XXX. It also touts them for taking an idea and making it better. You can't talk about it being a big deal to be first AND it being a big deal to not be first in the same breath. The modern Desktop UI was Xerox first and Apple second...

     

    With 2 Retina Macbook Pros, Apple TV, AirPort, TimeCapsule and 5 iPhones in my home, I am 100% Apple fanboy, but just like I don't vote along party lines for any politician, I listen to what both sides offer and make an informed decision.




    I have no idea what the first and last paragraphs of your post have to do with your argument, but anyway.

     

    See it how you like, China blocked Google, Google pulled out. It's the same thing. China and Google did not reach an agreement.

    Also, as much as the Google and the mainstream media reported it was due to censorship, it was clearly due to the request for all data harvested by Google to stay in China in a Chinese datacenter, which Google said no to.

     

    The Maps app on the iPhone, and the ones included on a Blackberry are words apart. We are having a discussion around how Apple copied, remember, not the idea of having maps on a mobile device.

     

    With the larger sized displays - please do not confuse Jobs being wrong, and the idea of copying. They are very different.

     

    With photos, "Google" Picasa was not Google Picasa in 2002. Google bought Picasa in 2004. If you had been a longtime Apple user, you would be aware MobileMe was .mac before 2008.



    Listen, I'm not having a pissing contest here, it's ridiculous. I'm defending 4 idiotic points around how Apple apparently copied, yet clearly did not.

  • Reply 92 of 295
    What struck me as the most interesting were the areas Google is following Apple in "things just working".

    Now on Tap is a step forward in intelligence and being even more context aware. So queries can be even less directed as it'll understand what you're doing.

    Photos with unlimited storage means you can stop thinking about photo backups. And the scary recognition and tagging layers means you can stop worrying about manual naming, categorization etc. Going back through 10000 photos over 5 years is just unusable today.

    Offline maps is huge as a new yorker. Being able to search, lookup locations, etc while on the subway or around any of our overly congested neighborhoods is going to be great. Also for tablets without cellular.

    Is it any surprise that mature markets are converging in features?
  • Reply 93 of 295
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,252member
    nolamacguy wrote: »
    Incorrect.... Apple was also first with a quality mobile payments solution using NFC tokenization; android's came after.
    .
    Not exactly. Google started down the mobile payments road in 2010 with NFC on the Nexus
    http://www.nfcworld.com/2010/12/07/35385/google-unveils-first-android-nfc-phone-but-nexus-s-is-limited-to-tag-reading-only-for-now/

    The following year, 2011, they rolled out the NFC-based Google Wallet and utilizing the same general hardware-based secure element within a chipset along with tokanization that Apple now uses for Apple Pay.
    http://www.nfcworld.com/2011/05/26/37720/google-wallet-day-one-for-nfc/
    http://www.nfc.cc/2011/12/30/galaxy-nexus-accessing-the-embedded-secure-element-and-insights-into-google-wallet/

    It really doesn't matter except for accuracy tho. Apple did what Google could not: Get everyone on the same page and push it thru. Touch ID was frosting on the cake. Now that the blockade is broken Google is carrying on with what they had originally envisioned several years ago. They can thank Apple for the assist.
    nolamacguy wrote: »
    Apple's original iPhone set the bar for maps on phones, it was a choice implementation; android's came after.
    LOL. Well of course Android came after. There was no Android phone to put it on. As for Google Maps on mobile phones Google had offered them since 2005, plainly the reason Apple wanted Google's assist with the first iPhone mapping application. Again of no real importance, Apple did great, except apparently to some folks that always want their favored OS to always have been first as tho it gives them something more than bragging rights.
    https://www.mattcutts.com/blog/google-maps-on-your-phone/
  • Reply 94 of 295
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    clexman wrote: »
    If Appleinsider wants to be a news source, they need to be impartial. Just saying Google sucks and Apple is awesome gets old.

    I'd suggest you look up the definition of the word "editorial". Hint: it has nothing to do with being an impartial news source.
  • Reply 95 of 295
    ericthehalfbeeericthehalfbee Posts: 4,298member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by singularity View Post

     

    Corrected for accuracy


     

    No, the original was correct. There have been several Google I/O vs WWDC articles on various sites lately and a LOT of people (specifically on the Android side) who seem to think these two events are similar in scope. Some even think I/O is superior. They are not even close.

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by singularity View Post

     

    looking very similar to me and would guarantee solicitors a lot of money if you wanted to challenge any difference in your opinion of applicability and legal standing.


     

    Really? I spotted one huge difference right off (and I'm not even a lawyer).

     

     

    Quote:

    Google: When you upload, submit, store, send or receive content to or through our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones.


     

    Quote:

     Apple: by submitting or posting such Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public or other users with whom you consent to share such Content, you grant Apple a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Service solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available, without any compensation or obligation to you.


     

    Seems pretty clear to me. Since I'm the one uploading the content, and my purpose is to store my photos and share them with family or friends, then Apple is restricted in how they can use my photos because they have to abide by my wishes/intent/purpose that I uploaded the photos for in the first place.

  • Reply 96 of 295
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Not exactly. Google started down the mobile payments road in 2010 with NFC on the Nexus
    http://www.nfcworld.com/2010/12/07/35385/google-unveils-first-android-nfc-phone-but-nexus-s-is-limited-to-tag-reading-only-for-now/

    The following year, 2011, they rolled out the NFC-based Google Wallet and utilizing the same general hardware-based secure element within a chipset along with tokanization that Apple now uses for Apple Pay.
    http://www.nfcworld.com/2011/05/26/37720/google-wallet-day-one-for-nfc/
    http://www.nfc.cc/2011/12/30/galaxy-nexus-accessing-the-embedded-secure-element-and-insights-into-google-wallet/

    It really doesn't matter except for accuracy tho. Apple did what Google could not: Get everyone on the same page and push it thru. Touch ID was frosting on the cake. Now that the blockade is broken Google is carrying on with what they had originally envisioned several years ago. They can thank Apple for the assist.

    We all know NFC phones existed. But your links don't seem to show that Google wallet used tokenized payments in lieu of your credit card number, which they kept on file.

    to say they thought of it first and Apple assisted them is just more of your nonsense. ideas are worthless, implementation is all that matters.
  • Reply 97 of 295
    thewhitefalconthewhitefalcon Posts: 4,453member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MathieuLLF View Post





    I guess you forgot about Steve Jobs saying that Apple would never make any phone larger than 4" because that's the perfect size and people wouldn't buy bigger? It's okay for Apple to admit their errors as well because they aren't perfect either



    Congrats! You win the "take things out of context" award for the day!

     

    Quote:


     Steve took the opportunity to rip on bigger rivals, saying that making a phone so big "you can't get your hand around it" helps, but that "no one's going to buy that."


    Guess what? Apple didn't make a big phone until they got it thin enough for it to work. No one bought the big phones he was talking about at the time. But hey, troll on, right?

  • Reply 98 of 295

    Congrats! You win the "take things out of context" award for the day!

    Guess what? Apple didn't make a big phone until they got it thin enough for it to work. No one bought the big phones he was talking about at the time. But hey, troll on, right?

    Actually thinness isn't what makes it usable. Apple didn't think that large phones were going to sell and when Apple saw sales stagnating a bit they realized that they needed one as well. Even Ive had negative things to say about large phones previously.

    PS you still can't wrap your hand around an iPhone 6+ no matter how thin it is.
  • Reply 99 of 295
    ericthehalfbeeericthehalfbee Posts: 4,298member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Not exactly. Google started down the mobile payments road in 2010 with NFC on the Nexus

    http://www.nfcworld.com/2010/12/07/35385/google-unveils-first-android-nfc-phone-but-nexus-s-is-limited-to-tag-reading-only-for-now/



    The following year, 2011, they rolled out the NFC-based Google Wallet and utilizing the same general hardware-based secure element within a chipset along with tokanization that Apple now uses for Apple Pay.

    http://www.nfcworld.com/2011/05/26/37720/google-wallet-day-one-for-nfc/

    http://www.nfc.cc/2011/12/30/galaxy-nexus-accessing-the-embedded-secure-element-and-insights-into-google-wallet/



    It really doesn't matter except for accuracy tho. Apple did what Google could not: Get everyone on the same page and push it thru. Touch ID was frosting on the cake. Now that the blockade is broken Google is carrying on with what they had originally envisioned several years ago. They can thank Apple for the assist.

     

    Wow, how many times has this been discussed here and you still don't get it?

     

    Apple's version of a secure element is vastly different from everyone else. Apple uses a custom designed section of their A7/A8 processor as their secure element (Secure Enclave). Google uses a mix of SIM cards OR on-device secure element. The specifications for the SIM card secure element are well known (and documented) making the possibility of someone hacking it greater than Apple's Secure Enclave, which is 100% proprietary and only known to Apple. Further, with Android source code also being available, potential hackers have a significant head start when trying to determine how Android and Apps interact with the secure element.

     

    As for tokenization, this has also been explained. Apple Pay uses the latest (and superior) version of network tokenization. You can't assume that because two systems use tokens that they are somehow equal.

     

    On another note, Samsung Pay (LoopPay) will also be using the same tokenization system as Apple Pay, which will make Samsung Pay superior as well (in this regard, anyway). The rest of Samsung Pay is a bit of a joke, however.

  • Reply 100 of 295
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,278member
    Some of you guys are just embarrassing. Enjoy all products from everyone. I want different thoughts from different people from different backgrounds to make things and life more interesting. Some say Apple created, invented, is first and is the only company on earth to ever make anything the best and all others wait and follow Apple and even then it sucks. That's just not true. Google bad, Apple good. Apple has made some pretty shitty products before that have failed miserably. It's like some of you only think and talk about what Apple does well and everything else is swept under the rug.

    Apple would not even be Apple it is today without many companies including Google. The iPhone would not have been successful and still be successful if it were not for Google. Tons of people who use iOS devices absolutely rely on Google services for thier day to day business including me. If Google and other companies didn't come up with things Apple could not push forward either. Apple needs other companies to thrive. They can't and will never do it by themselves. Heck, most of the services or features are companies that Apple bought like Siri.

    Yes Apple is great at what they do and many people enjoy what that put together including me. Although, Apple still needs other companies to push forward with all types of tech. It would be a boring freaking world with no innovative products if only Apple existed in the mobile world. If a company like Apple doesn't have competition and other innovatived products coming out from other companies, Apple could not make a fraction of what they have right now.

    Steve disliked the current mp3 players on the market at the time. So he had an idea to make one better. That idea could not have manifested without the prior innovation and hard work of many other companies. Same goes for the iPhone and the watch and the supposed car. Apple would not have suddenly just come up with all this stuff.

    You should want other companies to try and make things better than what the others have so that Apple can come up with better products.
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