Well I think I'm a little tired of waiting now. Apple doesn't deserve it, but they may have another PowerMac sold. I have reached a point where I'm fed up with the constant crashes, sudden quites, freezes, things not working like they should, slowness, etc. of this computer. Sure, if it wasn't so buggy and processor upgrades were more affordable and better then I probably wouldn't look twice at those dual GHz G4s, and I would be content on waiting for the G5. But there comes a point where when I can't run anything and can't get any work done (which SHOULD NOTbe the case with my system) I have to give in. Situation is I'm gonna have a bit of money coming my way so I figure why not work out a game plan. That would be getting a new G4 to keep me happy while I wait, and finding some poor unsuspecting bastard on eBay to pay too much for my machine when the mythical G5s finally make their belated appearance. So yes, a G4 and GF4 Ti 4400 doesn't sound so bad until spring now. Only wish I could have both my burner and the Superdrive in it at the same time. Maybe the new G5 case will solve this. Like I said I'm just giving in and fully feel this is just a stop-gap computer.
Exactly. What worries me a little is the fact that ebcuase the hype has gone overbaord this time round (and apple did nothing to negate this) a great many people will wait for the G5. Many businesses however will not and cannot wait. Given that most of the main software is available for windows many companies will switch.
As the Pmac line is apple's real profit earner I am concerned about where cash will come from for future R&D.
Surely Jobs and co can see that the introduction of the G5 would herald a massive amount of purchasing from the likes of us who have put off buying macs so far?</strong><hr></blockquote>
My company was ready to get 7 new top of line G5's if they came out at MWSF; now we are just upgrading our existing macs and waiting for the G5. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
That's the thing. We do not need it but we want it. A monster SUV of computers. A giant mansionette of a computer. A prime number to the nth degree computing computer. We will not use the power but it's good to have it just in case (it might make us smarter).
(though for me a cinema display would probably make life more enjoyable than a faster processor. I could get rid of these two big hot space hogging flickering pieces of crt washing machine electric consuming equivalent junk)
I think I'm waiting for a G5. I'm waiting to have money, really, but it sucks balls when you end up buying a chip that is about to be phased out. My iMac 333 is just kind of sad, since it was the most behind-for-its-time iMac produced.
However, if history tells me anything, I'll end up waiting either three more years, or until I can get a 4.5 GHz Mac (I upgraded from a Centris 650 68040@25MHz ).
Really, I just want a computer that will run modern apps respectably three years from the purchase date.
I paid $3999 for the Cinema Display when the ADC model came out.... best $4000 I ever spent.
I just hope the G5s have an ADC port...
"Sorry, no more ADC. We've switched to XYZ-DVI. We're sure some third party will come up with a linkage, at some price less than you paid for your car, sometime in the next half-decade," Steve says.
<strong>That's the thing. We do not need it but we want it. A monster SUV of computers. A giant mansionette of a computer. A prime number to the nth degree computing computer. We will not use the power but it's good to have it just in case (it might make us smarter).
(though for me a cinema display would probably make life more enjoyable than a faster processor. I could get rid of these two big hot space hogging flickering pieces of crt washing machine electric consuming equivalent junk)</strong><hr></blockquote>
The cinema display is worth a 30% processor increase. A 30% hard drive speed increase would also be nice.
When the computer I have now is no longer easily able to do what I want to do, I'll look at whatever the options are. I don't need top-of-the-line performance, so I'll prefer something that isn't a big, loud tower if possible.
If I get a computer before then it'll be an iBook, and that probably won't have a G5 in it. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Which is the way most people think, and why we don't need to listen to the doomsayers who insist Apple will go out of business if a 1.6GHz G5 doesn't appear tomorrow.
Oddly, though, I'm currently downgrading.
I just replaced a borrowed-from-work Power Mac G4 with an iMac G4, and if the iBook gets a G4 any time soon, I'll replace my PowerBook G4.
After having initial doubts about the usefulness of AltiVec, I can't live without it now. There are noticable benefits of running FCP3 and most of the audio apps I have with a G4. It's worth it just for the time saved encoding a CD in iTunes.
I've been working on getting my diagnostic apps friendly with AltiVec, and my first enhancement reduced processing time on a typical chunk from almost three hours to less than 45 minutes.
Though I'm interested in the G5, I'm certain we're going to have two years of whining and bitching at Apple, Adobe, Macromedia et al - who've taken two years to get ready for OS X - to get 64-bit versions of their apps out.
I'm sitting on a pile of cash. I'm not necessarily waiting on the G5, though. I am waiting on something from Apple.
My situation is complicated by the fact that I see almost equivalent value (what you get for your money) from PowerMacs as from PowerBooks. PowerMacs get you more performance for less money and they're more easily expandable. PowerBooks are small and portable. For me, in my situation, an even trade. This means I need to look at the whole "pro" section of Apple's matrix to make my decision.
I think I'm somewhat unique in this regard. Most people either want a PowerBook or a PowerMac. Some want both at the same time, but I don't think many could opt for one or the other.
So, I want to see what, if anything, is going to happen to the PowerBook soon. If there's a big enough bump there, I'll probably get one. Otherwise, I'll probably buy whatever new PowerMac is released at MWNY - assuming new MoBo and case.
This is the first time in my 10+ years of buying Macs that I've stalled like this. Every other time, I've been able to identify a current, shipping Mac that I could take without waiting to see what was coming.
[quote]Athlon price: $2200. more or less (prices seem to be dropping every day on Athlons)<hr></blockquote>
You can build a dual-Athlon MP 1900+ (1.6GHz) for considerably less than $2200 depending on how you equip it. Maybe less than $1200 if it's just a dedicated render box.
[quote]You can build a dual-Athlon MP 1900+ (1.6GHz) for considerably less than $2200 depending on how you equip it. Maybe less than $1200 if it's just a dedicated render box.<hr></blockquote>
You're right, but I was pricing higher end stuff, starting with the case, fans and power supply. If I were to do this (don't want to!), it won't be a render box, it'll be my primary modeling and rendering station.
I'm going to pay my credit card down for a couple months and keep my ear to the rumor sites. Then I'll see how optimistic I feel about a G5 with all new innards in mid April. Decide then. Maybe Steve will pull a rabbit out of Moto's hat.
I want a G5 because I need a computer that will last me at least three years. I don't see a G4 doing that right now, partially because of the SDRAM and the slower clock speed (And don't give me that "it doesn't matter" crap. It does matter, although not totally). If I wanted the absolute fastest system out there, I would have run a linux box, plain and simple. But I want OS X. I don't need a shiny computer, and I don't want an LCD, so that at least cuts $2200 off for buying a 21" CRT instead of an Cinema Display.
I need a system that is highly scalable, as well. Right now I have an AMD K5-based computer that I am using as a storage server. Know why? It's cheap scalability. I am currently working on assembling a 480GB ATA-100 RAID array in there. Know why? Because dollar-for-dollar it will be cheaper and almost as affective as doing the same thing in a PowerMac. In fact, right now, I wouldn't even be able to do that because the case, despite looking really, really cool, doesn't have the 7 drive bays I would need. PLUS, whenever I am doing something on my main computer, that box is still sitting over there, and the other computers in the house can get data off of it w/out having to worry about any sort of slowdown.
I simply refuse to remain blinded by the 'Macs Are Better' screen. I like them a lot, a lot more than I could like a Wintel machine. But I live in the real world, and I have to pay for this stuff. I will have the money to buy a new comp this fall, and it will either go to individual manufacturers or to Apple. Their call.
Actually, that brings up another thing...They charge way too much for standard parts...If I had to buy a PM right now, because of what is charged, I would want it w/ no hd, video card, or RAM...I could easily save several hundred dollars by buying it myself.
And about the lazy ass. You see new Apple hardware for each line released every 6 months is seems. PC makers do that ever 6 weeks. I don't care of their components aren't the same quality, it is NOT that hard to simply up this or up that...once the design is in place, if it is done correctly, new stuff should just drop in (well, almost, I know).
<strong>...I will have the money to buy a new comp this fall, and it will either go to individual manufacturers or to Apple. Their call.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I can already tell you what they're going to say: "Our computers (will always) cost more than buying and putting together the same thing (ha, ha, whatever that means) from other manufacturers. Sorry. You are not who we're trying to sell to. Sorry. We do not wish to attempt to enter that particular market. Sorry. Yes, we realize that market encompasses part of 'the other 95%'."
Re-read your own post. Do you honestly think Apple is ever going to make a Mac that satisfies your requirements (including price)?
If you need that stuff (like a fast 7 disk RAID in one box), relatively cheap, you'd better get used to having a mix of platforms and Frankenstein boxes. It isn't all that bad, as you've discovered. It's easier once you decide that's the way it is and stop waiting for Apple.
[edit: messed up tags and added smiley - didn't mean for this message to seem flamey]
Oh, I know it's gonna cost more. I never said it wasn't
I've worked with macs a lot in the past (school), and I was converted about a year ago. At the school where I was a tech aide, the building was about a 50/50 split of PCs and Macs...We ended up just giving up on security on the dells and reimaged them at least once a week, but the macs were so nice, despite being the five flavors imacs, that they converted me. Now I just need a PowerMac with a new chip design to back up that conversion
Comments
Would settle for 1.4GHz or faster G4 IF it has DDR RAM/faster mobo, etc.
Gotta get a new comp soon though. Want G5, will buy top end shortly after MWNY.
<strong>
Exactly. What worries me a little is the fact that ebcuase the hype has gone overbaord this time round (and apple did nothing to negate this) a great many people will wait for the G5. Many businesses however will not and cannot wait. Given that most of the main software is available for windows many companies will switch.
As the Pmac line is apple's real profit earner I am concerned about where cash will come from for future R&D.
Surely Jobs and co can see that the introduction of the G5 would herald a massive amount of purchasing from the likes of us who have put off buying macs so far?</strong><hr></blockquote>
My company was ready to get 7 new top of line G5's if they came out at MWSF; now we are just upgrading our existing macs and waiting for the G5. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
(though for me a cinema display would probably make life more enjoyable than a faster processor. I could get rid of these two big hot space hogging flickering pieces of crt washing machine electric consuming equivalent junk)
However, if history tells me anything, I'll end up waiting either three more years, or until I can get a 4.5 GHz Mac (I upgraded from a Centris 650 68040@25MHz
Really, I just want a computer that will run modern apps respectably three years from the purchase date.
Any more questions?
[ 02-10-2002: Message edited by: GolferGuy1 ]</p>
I paid $3999 for the Cinema Display when the ADC model came out.... best $4000 I ever spent.
I just hope the G5s have an ADC port...
"Sorry, no more ADC. We've switched to XYZ-DVI. We're sure some third party will come up with a linkage, at some price less than you paid for your car, sometime in the next half-decade," Steve says.
<strong>That's the thing. We do not need it but we want it. A monster SUV of computers. A giant mansionette of a computer. A prime number to the nth degree computing computer. We will not use the power but it's good to have it just in case (it might make us smarter).
(though for me a cinema display would probably make life more enjoyable than a faster processor. I could get rid of these two big hot space hogging flickering pieces of crt washing machine electric consuming equivalent junk)</strong><hr></blockquote>
The cinema display is worth a 30% processor increase. A 30% hard drive speed increase would also be nice.
I won't be in a position to buy new hardware for at least 18 months, and will most likely buy whatever's current when that time comes.
<strong>I'm not waiting.
When the computer I have now is no longer easily able to do what I want to do, I'll look at whatever the options are. I don't need top-of-the-line performance, so I'll prefer something that isn't a big, loud tower if possible.
If I get a computer before then it'll be an iBook, and that probably won't have a G5 in it.
Which is the way most people think, and why we don't need to listen to the doomsayers who insist Apple will go out of business if a 1.6GHz G5 doesn't appear tomorrow.
Oddly, though, I'm currently downgrading.
I just replaced a borrowed-from-work Power Mac G4 with an iMac G4, and if the iBook gets a G4 any time soon, I'll replace my PowerBook G4.
After having initial doubts about the usefulness of AltiVec, I can't live without it now. There are noticable benefits of running FCP3 and most of the audio apps I have with a G4. It's worth it just for the time saved encoding a CD in iTunes.
I've been working on getting my diagnostic apps friendly with AltiVec, and my first enhancement reduced processing time on a typical chunk from almost three hours to less than 45 minutes.
Though I'm interested in the G5, I'm certain we're going to have two years of whining and bitching at Apple, Adobe, Macromedia et al - who've taken two years to get ready for OS X - to get 64-bit versions of their apps out.
It's also going to be fun downloading shareware:
shareware-68k.sit.bin
shareware-PPC.sit.bin
shareware-Fat.sit.bin
shareware-Carbon.sit.bin
shareware-64bit.sit.bin
Mac price: $2999.
Athlon price: $2200. more or less (prices seem to be dropping every day on Athlons)
Speed does make a diffence. The only reason I hesitate is Windows. (For some add'l money, I'm sure I could get someone to build and test it, too.)
My situation is complicated by the fact that I see almost equivalent value (what you get for your money) from PowerMacs as from PowerBooks. PowerMacs get you more performance for less money and they're more easily expandable. PowerBooks are small and portable. For me, in my situation, an even trade. This means I need to look at the whole "pro" section of Apple's matrix to make my decision.
I think I'm somewhat unique in this regard. Most people either want a PowerBook or a PowerMac. Some want both at the same time, but I don't think many could opt for one or the other.
So, I want to see what, if anything, is going to happen to the PowerBook soon. If there's a big enough bump there, I'll probably get one. Otherwise, I'll probably buy whatever new PowerMac is released at MWNY - assuming new MoBo and case.
This is the first time in my 10+ years of buying Macs that I've stalled like this. Every other time, I've been able to identify a current, shipping Mac that I could take without waiting to see what was coming.
You can build a dual-Athlon MP 1900+ (1.6GHz) for considerably less than $2200 depending on how you equip it. Maybe less than $1200 if it's just a dedicated render box.
You're right, but I was pricing higher end stuff, starting with the case, fans and power supply. If I were to do this (don't want to!), it won't be a render box, it'll be my primary modeling and rendering station.
I'm going to pay my credit card down for a couple months and keep my ear to the rumor sites. Then I'll see how optimistic I feel about a G5 with all new innards in mid April. Decide then. Maybe Steve will pull a rabbit out of Moto's hat.
I want a G5 because I need a computer that will last me at least three years. I don't see a G4 doing that right now, partially because of the SDRAM and the slower clock speed (And don't give me that "it doesn't matter" crap. It does matter, although not totally). If I wanted the absolute fastest system out there, I would have run a linux box, plain and simple. But I want OS X. I don't need a shiny computer, and I don't want an LCD, so that at least cuts $2200 off for buying a 21" CRT instead of an Cinema Display.
I need a system that is highly scalable, as well. Right now I have an AMD K5-based computer that I am using as a storage server. Know why? It's cheap scalability. I am currently working on assembling a 480GB ATA-100 RAID array in there. Know why? Because dollar-for-dollar it will be cheaper and almost as affective as doing the same thing in a PowerMac. In fact, right now, I wouldn't even be able to do that because the case, despite looking really, really cool, doesn't have the 7 drive bays I would need. PLUS, whenever I am doing something on my main computer, that box is still sitting over there, and the other computers in the house can get data off of it w/out having to worry about any sort of slowdown.
I simply refuse to remain blinded by the 'Macs Are Better' screen. I like them a lot, a lot more than I could like a Wintel machine. But I live in the real world, and I have to pay for this stuff. I will have the money to buy a new comp this fall, and it will either go to individual manufacturers or to Apple. Their call.
Actually, that brings up another thing...They charge way too much for standard parts...If I had to buy a PM right now, because of what is charged, I would want it w/ no hd, video card, or RAM...I could easily save several hundred dollars by buying it myself.
And about the lazy ass. You see new Apple hardware for each line released every 6 months is seems. PC makers do that ever 6 weeks. I don't care of their components aren't the same quality, it is NOT that hard to simply up this or up that...once the design is in place, if it is done correctly, new stuff should just drop in (well, almost, I know).
<strong>...I will have the money to buy a new comp this fall, and it will either go to individual manufacturers or to Apple. Their call.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I can already tell you what they're going to say: "Our computers (will always) cost more than buying and putting together the same thing (ha, ha, whatever that means) from other manufacturers. Sorry. You are not who we're trying to sell to. Sorry. We do not wish to attempt to enter that particular market. Sorry. Yes, we realize that market encompasses part of 'the other 95%'."
Re-read your own post. Do you honestly think Apple is ever going to make a Mac that satisfies your requirements (including price)?
If you need that stuff (like a fast 7 disk RAID in one box), relatively cheap, you'd better get used to having a mix of platforms and Frankenstein boxes. It isn't all that bad, as you've discovered. It's easier once you decide that's the way it is and stop waiting for Apple.
[edit: messed up tags and added smiley - didn't mean for this message to seem flamey]
[edit2: tags still messed up]
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: spotbug ]
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: spotbug ]</p>
I've worked with macs a lot in the past (school), and I was converted about a year ago. At the school where I was a tech aide, the building was about a 50/50 split of PCs and Macs...We ended up just giving up on security on the dells and reimaged them at least once a week, but the macs were so nice, despite being the five flavors imacs, that they converted me. Now I just need a PowerMac with a new chip design to back up that conversion