You obviously did since you mentioned why repairability reports matter. Seems pertinent to the point you were making doesn't it? No reason to be dismissive of it IMHO.
Nobody cares about your link. I thought that was obvious.
I've heard weak arguments from the habitual forum naysayers that claim unrepairable Apple products = landfill. This bothers me when 1) you can recycle electronics, and 2) most electronics I've recycled are obsolete but still fully functional because they made well enough to last the life of the product. In my mind, glue and low "repairability scores" from the likes of iFixit have little impact to what goes into landfills. A public awareness campaign to recycle EOL electronics will have a greater net positive impact to the environment than making electronics "repairable" by the minority of the population that is DIY inclined.
Reminds me of my parents using my grandmother's old fridge as a second fridge in the basement.... They must have used it for at least 15 more years then unplugged it for an extended period of time and noticing the power usage dropped noticeably (and that house was close to 4000 sq feet and not the best insulated). Probably would have been more environmentally friendly and cheaper to have dumped it earlier
I've heard weak arguments from the habitual forum naysayers that claim unrepairable Apple products = landfill. This bothers me when 1) you can recycle electronics, and 2) most electronics I've recycled are obsolete but still fully functional because they made well enough to last the life of the product. In my mind, glue and low "repairability scores" from the likes of iFixit have little impact to what goes into landfills. A public awareness campaign to recycle EOL electronics will have a greater net positive impact to the environment than making electronics "repairable" by the minority of the population that is DIY inclined.
Most of what they say is BS. It's not just Apple. If people go to ArsTechnica or Anandtech, they'll see many posters agreeing that repairability isn't important to them, but that the advantages of these new highly unrepairable products are preferred. This goes for Samsung and other makers as well. So, complaining about Apple, from the peanut gallery, is silly.
Oh, the link to the site that's also the source for the AI article. That one? OK then.
A link to iFixit in general. They don't tell us anything really important, though sometimes articles using their tear downs are interesting. The reason why no one cares about linking to iFixit is because their tear down articles are all one sided. An article on Ars, or, other site, using their info, is not, and posters give their opinions, which are interesting to read, and give a good idea of what most people think, which is that iFixit is full of it.
Its high FRIKEN quality. The keyboard will probably last more than 5 years and you will probably be able to use it with an iPad Pro3 in a couple of years. While if you buy a POS cheap crap it will break in a year or two.
but if you want to be cheap and have 2nd class goods, well go right ahead and buy some cheap POS.
There is NOTHING in this keyboard that justifies the $100 price increase over Apple's standard keyboard.
A link to iFixit in general. They don't tell us anything really important, though sometimes articles using their tear downs are interesting. The reason why no one cares about linking to iFixit is because their tear down articles are all one sided. An article on Ars, or, other site, using their info, is not, and posters give their opinions, which are interesting to read, and give a good idea of what most people think, which is that iFixit is full of it.
Gotcha.
FWIW I hadn't seen a great number of "complaints" about repairability. What little I've seen has to more with recycling and the difficulty of doing so with some mobile devices. Actual repairability not so much.
The cost of this keyboard is you get what you pay for. I prefer to pay for value. Which Apple delivers every time. The more iOS devices and Mac devices we put into my company the fewer hardware and software issues we have. The devices also last forever. Once we take them out of primary use we move them into secondary uses such as remotes, room marker displays and training media devices. I have peers in our industry that roll their eyes and can't believe we would pay "that much" for "IT Stuff"...I laugh all day long as our profitability has doubled all of theirs for years. It is not all about up front cost people. It is about value.
The profit margin on that thing has got to be epic.
I loved the feel of that keyboard far more than I thought I would, spurring me to add one to my iPad Pro purchase. What I am REALLY wanting to see from Apple now are specialized attachments for the iPad Pro Smart Connector. Specifically, I want to get rid of all current MIDI keyboards to attach directly, I'd love to see a music workstation for producers, something for DJs, plus there has to be someone out there making an editing suite style keyboard for on-site 4K video editors.
FWIW I hadn't seen a great number of "complaints" about repairability. What little I've seen has to more with recycling and the difficulty of doing so with some mobile devices. Actual repairability not so much.
We don't recycle our devices ourselves. We take it in, and they recycle it. Apple's devices, as even Greenpeace agrees, are highly recyclable. That does mean something to me.
People aren't complaining about repairability so much. But when articles of tear downs come out, posters discuss them. Most people would rather have devices that just so happen to rate poorly in iFixit's tear downs. For example, iFixit has complained a lot, and loudly, about the bonding of screen, touch layer and glass. Yes, it's more expensive to replace when the glass gets cracked. But performance is better. The touch is more accurate. Reflections between screen and glass are eliminated for better contrast and shadow detail. There is less distance between the finger, or stylus, and screen. And it's less likely to break when the device is dropped, leading to fewer repairs.
So which is better? Most people agree that bonding is better. Just recently, in tearing down the Fairphone, iFixit stated that they gave a lower level of importance to the bonded screen on this because almost everyone bonds screens these days. I'd rather read this article than go to their site.
With Apple's products getting smaller and smaller, thinner and thinner, I think this apparent penchant for "repairability" is getting rather silly.
I, frankly, couldn't care less.
For example, last year, I bought an iPhone 6+ under AT&T's Next 12 program. And this year, I happily turned it in for a 6S+.
I want the latest and greatest, and I want to benefit from the new features, both hardware and software.
Let Apple deal with any repairs they wish to make. Or let them recycle parts and materials. And let me always get Apple Care in case something malfunctions at my end.
I'm really salivating over this iPad Pro and looking forward to using both keyboard and Pencil along with Adobe's iOS app offerings. The "iPad as graphics tablet" idea is also intriguing, bypassing the whole Wacom thing.
End users are not the only people who read iFixit.
God it's so frustrating while people like myself order it minutes after available to order and STILL don't have it these bozos get stuff and rip it to hell just so they can give it a score of "1" for unrepairable. Can't Apple block them from getting it or at least be the last ones to get it so people who actually want and need to use it get theirs first? Is that too much to ask??
I agree. I got the Logitech CREATE keyboard cover in the meantime and because I thought it'd be complementary to Apple's Smart Keyboard and it has worked out very well. It really makes the iPad Pro much more like a laptop than a tablet. It's somewhat bulky and heavy but offers good protection, the keyboard feels like a MBP or MBA keyboards that I'm used to, has backlighting which is nice and also the extra row of function keys on top which is really useful. I really wish Apple could have figured out a way to put those keys on theirs but, alas, wasn't meant to be. It just makes the Logitech more useful.
I liked the Apple Smart Keyboard when I tested it at the local Apple Store. The keys took a little while to get used to but I'm sure I'll get used to the feel with repeated use. I see the combination of the Apple keyboard and case as the "local" mobile device for one day outings and the Logitech keyboard/case as the airplane and overnight or multi-day trip option. For long business trips to Asia, I'll still be taking my MBP r13" but the iPad Pro with either keyboard will be perfect for the day outings visiting suppliers and customers.
You are aactually fine with a $169 price for that thing?
Maybe Apple i paying $80 apiece to have it manufactured or something.
Apple supply chain is like Walmart's. Prices are cheap as they squeeze the hell out of them like Walmart does.
The real question is: are enough iPad Pro owners "aactually fine" paying $169 for "that thing."
Because they'll answer with their wallets. And that's all that matters. If you disagree, you are free to buy something cheaper.
All this guessing about Apple's BOM, which doesn't include the cost of design, engineering and marketing, is just the fool's way of trying to sound like they're experts on Apple's supply chain; nobody knows Apple's BOM.
The real question is: are enough iPad Pro owners "aactually fine" paying $169 for "that thing."
Because they'll answer with their wallets. And that's all that matters. If you disagree, you are free to buy something cheaper.
All this guessing about Apple's BOM, which doesn't include the cost of design, engineering and marketing, is just the fool's way of trying to sound like they're experts on Apple's supply chain; nobody knows Apple's BOM.
Yes, it is expensive. After spending $1000+ for an iPad Pro/128GB storage.... the difference between spending $129 (Microsoft), $150 Logitech, or $169 Apple is not that much in the overall scheme of things. If the price is too much you can always cobble together your own inferior solutions by getting a cheap kickstand and a bluetooth keyboard.... of course when the screen topples over and lands badly..... you might be cursing yourself for being so cheap
Looks really nice and high-quality like all of Apple's products. Should definitely last longer than similar keyboards. I wonder how the butterfly mechanism feels compared to a standard MacBook Pro keyboard though. Still haven't had a chance to try one out.
Comments
Nobody cares about your link. I thought that was obvious.
I've heard weak arguments from the habitual forum naysayers that claim unrepairable Apple products = landfill. This bothers me when 1) you can recycle electronics, and 2) most electronics I've recycled are obsolete but still fully functional because they made well enough to last the life of the product. In my mind, glue and low "repairability scores" from the likes of iFixit have little impact to what goes into landfills. A public awareness campaign to recycle EOL electronics will have a greater net positive impact to the environment than making electronics "repairable" by the minority of the population that is DIY inclined.
Reminds me of my parents using my grandmother's old fridge as a second fridge in the basement.... They must have used it for at least 15 more years then unplugged it for an extended period of time and noticing the power usage dropped noticeably (and that house was close to 4000 sq feet and not the best insulated). Probably would have been more environmentally friendly and cheaper to have dumped it earlier
Most of what they say is BS. It's not just Apple. If people go to ArsTechnica or Anandtech, they'll see many posters agreeing that repairability isn't important to them, but that the advantages of these new highly unrepairable products are preferred. This goes for Samsung and other makers as well. So, complaining about Apple, from the peanut gallery, is silly.
A link to iFixit in general. They don't tell us anything really important, though sometimes articles using their tear downs are interesting. The reason why no one cares about linking to iFixit is because their tear down articles are all one sided. An article on Ars, or, other site, using their info, is not, and posters give their opinions, which are interesting to read, and give a good idea of what most people think, which is that iFixit is full of it.
And thats why the keyboard cost $169.
Its high FRIKEN quality. The keyboard will probably last more than 5 years and you will probably be able to use it with an iPad Pro3 in a couple of years. While if you buy a POS cheap crap it will break in a year or two.
but if you want to be cheap and have 2nd class goods, well go right ahead and buy some cheap POS.
There is NOTHING in this keyboard that justifies the $100 price increase over Apple's standard keyboard.
It's nice to know that you based your nuanced opinion on your years of industrial design and manufacturing experience. You did, didn't you?
FWIW I hadn't seen a great number of "complaints" about repairability. What little I've seen has to more with recycling and the difficulty of doing so with some mobile devices. Actual repairability not so much.
I loved the feel of that keyboard far more than I thought I would, spurring me to add one to my iPad Pro purchase. What I am REALLY wanting to see from Apple now are specialized attachments for the iPad Pro Smart Connector. Specifically, I want to get rid of all current MIDI keyboards to attach directly, I'd love to see a music workstation for producers, something for DJs, plus there has to be someone out there making an editing suite style keyboard for on-site 4K video editors.
We don't recycle our devices ourselves. We take it in, and they recycle it. Apple's devices, as even Greenpeace agrees, are highly recyclable. That does mean something to me.
People aren't complaining about repairability so much. But when articles of tear downs come out, posters discuss them. Most people would rather have devices that just so happen to rate poorly in iFixit's tear downs. For example, iFixit has complained a lot, and loudly, about the bonding of screen, touch layer and glass. Yes, it's more expensive to replace when the glass gets cracked. But performance is better. The touch is more accurate. Reflections between screen and glass are eliminated for better contrast and shadow detail. There is less distance between the finger, or stylus, and screen. And it's less likely to break when the device is dropped, leading to fewer repairs.
So which is better? Most people agree that bonding is better. Just recently, in tearing down the Fairphone, iFixit stated that they gave a lower level of importance to the bonded screen on this because almost everyone bonds screens these days. I'd rather read this article than go to their site.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/11/ifixit-gives-modular-fairphone-2-a-rare-10-out-of-10-for-repairability/
With Apple's products getting smaller and smaller, thinner and thinner, I think this apparent penchant for "repairability" is getting rather silly.
I, frankly, couldn't care less.
For example, last year, I bought an iPhone 6+ under AT&T's Next 12 program. And this year, I happily turned it in for a 6S+.
I want the latest and greatest, and I want to benefit from the new features, both hardware and software.
Let Apple deal with any repairs they wish to make. Or let them recycle parts and materials. And let me always get Apple Care in case something malfunctions at my end.
I'm really salivating over this iPad Pro and looking forward to using both keyboard and Pencil along with Adobe's iOS app offerings. The "iPad as graphics tablet" idea is also intriguing, bypassing the whole Wacom thing.
End users are not the only people who read iFixit.
onlypeople who read iFixit.TFTFY.
It's nice to know that you based your nuanced opinion on your years of industrial design and manufacturing experience. You did, didn't you?
You are aactually fine with a $169 price for that thing?
Maybe Apple i paying $80 apiece to have it manufactured or something.
Apple supply chain is like Walmart's. Prices are cheap as they squeeze the hell out of them like Walmart does.
I liked the Apple Smart Keyboard when I tested it at the local Apple Store. The keys took a little while to get used to but I'm sure I'll get used to the feel with repeated use. I see the combination of the Apple keyboard and case as the "local" mobile device for one day outings and the Logitech keyboard/case as the airplane and overnight or multi-day trip option. For long business trips to Asia, I'll still be taking my MBP r13" but the iPad Pro with either keyboard will be perfect for the day outings visiting suppliers and customers.
The real question is: are enough iPad Pro owners "aactually fine" paying $169 for "that thing."
Because they'll answer with their wallets. And that's all that matters. If you disagree, you are free to buy something cheaper.
All this guessing about Apple's BOM, which doesn't include the cost of design, engineering and marketing, is just the fool's way of trying to sound like they're experts on Apple's supply chain; nobody knows Apple's BOM.
The real question is: are enough iPad Pro owners "aactually fine" paying $169 for "that thing."
Because they'll answer with their wallets. And that's all that matters. If you disagree, you are free to buy something cheaper.
All this guessing about Apple's BOM, which doesn't include the cost of design, engineering and marketing, is just the fool's way of trying to sound like they're experts on Apple's supply chain; nobody knows Apple's BOM.
Yes, it is expensive. After spending $1000+ for an iPad Pro/128GB storage.... the difference between spending $129 (Microsoft), $150 Logitech, or $169 Apple is not that much in the overall scheme of things. If the price is too much you can always cobble together your own inferior solutions by getting a cheap kickstand and a bluetooth keyboard.... of course when the screen topples over and lands badly..... you might be cursing yourself for being so cheap