Based in the dimensions, which is a very common way to categorise devices, the Macbook Pro 13" is the most similar device from Apple. But when you add a detachable touchscreen, GPU and a stylus, then it's easy to see why it's more expensive. IMO, comparing it to the Macbook Pro 15", a device that is larger and heavier, is not right. Looking at whole picture, there is no device from Apple that compare feature by feature to the Surface Book.
Except for the fact that there is a HUGE price difference between the 13" mbp that they used in their comparison and the surface book that they compared to it. It costs $800 more and it was only faster in one (1) category. In every other category, the speeds were similar.
Then look at what happened when the top of the line surface book was compared to the top of the line MacBook. The surface book wound up spitting gravel.
Like I posted before, let's wait for Apple to release their Macbook 13" with GPU, and then a comparison can be made. Until then, there is no device from Apple that can compare directly to the SB, considering dimensions and specs.
i find it interesting that, when Microsoft is the more expensive one,
that suddenly form factor is important now. There have been all-in-one
PC's with touch screens for ages now. Does having a touchscreen make any
of them a better product or bargain than buying an imac? Nope.
Does it makes sense to you compare a Macbook 1.2Ghz Core M, 8GB with a SurfaceBook, Intel i5, 8Gb, only because both are in the same price range (MB $1599 vs SB $1699?) Because if that's the case, this comparison is not good for the Macbook considering performance.
Microsoft said it was twice as fast as the MacBook Pro. They lied.
Maybe, maybe not. I'll take that from MS with a grain of salt.
1) The iPad pro sold 2 million units since it was launched in November. I don't know how many surfaces sold, but I'm guessing it's not 2 million units based on trends.
2) who wants to pay a subscription to listen to music? I'd rather own my songs and be done with it. I wouldn't say that Microsoft was ahead of its time since there were already music subscription services on the maket before the Zune came out.
3) Microsoft compared an entry level MacBook Pro to a much more expensive non-entry level surface book. How is that a fair or proper comparison? What's next? Showing that women have more upper body strength than men by having Aneta Florczyk arm wrestle Steve Urkel?
4) the surface book is a laptop. Microsoft was the one to compare their surface book to a MacBook FIRST. Microsoft is the one that compares the surface book to MacBooks in their advertising. It doesn't matter that the MacBook Pro is quad core, it costs significantly less than the surface book. You want a comparison to the 13" MacBooks? Ok, tell Microsoft to cut thief price in half for the surface book then.
5) what innovation does Microsoft have around the surface pro? What does the surface pro actually do that has improved upon tablets or 2-in-1's? The idea of a snap-on keyboard isn't new by a long shot. The idea of using an n-trig digital pen for input isn't new either. At least Apple developed their own tech and method to get the Apple pencil to work, what did Microsoft innovate here?
5a) you're complaining about apple's sales but look. Apple's iPhone sales dwarf Windows phone sales by a country mile. iPad sales continue to dwarf surface sales by a country mile. Mac sales are decent for ONE manufacturer. We know that the iPad pro represents 15% of iPad sales. 16.5 million iPads were sold last quarter. That means that 1.9 million iPad pro's sold in its opening quarter. You're talking about being more worried about Apple when Microsoft can't even get any traction? This is bad comedy.
1) Neither Apple or MS released official sales numbers for those devices, so I don't know where your numbers came from. IDC released an estimate. If you want to trust them, be my guest.
2) Agree, nobody wants to pay for music, but still there is Spotify, Apple Music and other subscription services with millions of paying customers. It's true, they were not the first, but had the best offer, unlimited music + 10 DRM free songs per month for $10.00. Isn't that better than what Spotify or Apple Music offers? How many DRM free songs per month Spotify or Apple Music includes?
3) Yes, it's true. In that case, there nothing from Apple to compare to the SB with similar dimensions and specs.
4) Yes, MS compare it to the...Macbook Pro 13", not the 15". Since you mention "thief price", have you seen to cost of the under power Macbook? Now we are talking about "thief pricing".
5) Two examples of innovation are the hybrid cooling, which I haven't seen in other device with the dimensions of the SP4 (but maybe I'm wrong). Another thing is the keyboard, which is great when you consider how thin it is. Compare that to the Macbook and iPad Pro keyboard, which are awful.
5a) Yes, I know MS devices are behind iPhone and iPad. And the two strongest Apple devices are not that strong as before. iPad sales have been down quickly in last two years, even with the release of the iPad Pro. iPhone sales were flat for this quarter, plus they already expect lower sales next quarter. If you think MS can't get any traction, then Apple is losing theirs.
1) FUD 2) well I wouldn't know because I just buy my music outright. It's not about not wanting to pay for music, it is about not wanting to feed a subscription model. 3) SB is a laptop, it got compared to a laptop after Microsoft tried to pull a fast one. 4) that MacBook costs significant;y less than the ENTRY LEVEL surface book that Microsoft tried to pretend that it doesn't exist. Microsoft tested a $2000 surface book against an $1099 entry level MacBook Pro and tried to call it equal. 5) MacBooks have had best in industry trackpads for years and years now but for some reason, PC manufacturers still haven't caught up to that. You complain about both thevipad pro and MacBook keyboard when both are rather nice. 5a) Microsoft still can not get traction and Apple is still leading the pack. Call it what you wish, but there is no way to define what's happened so far as any sort of victory for Microsoft in any real way.
Except for the fact that there is a HUGE price difference between the 13" mbp that they used in their comparison and the surface book that they compared to it. It costs $800 more and it was only faster in one (1) category. In every other category, the speeds were similar.
Then look at what happened when the top of the line surface book was compared to the top of the line MacBook. The surface book wound up spitting gravel.
Like I posted before, let's wait for Apple to release their Macbook 13" with GPU, and then a comparison can be made. Until then, there is no device from Apple that can compare directly to the SB, considering dimensions and specs.
Does it makes sense to you compare a Macbook 1.2Ghz Core M, 8GB with a SurfaceBook, Intel i5, 8Gb, only because both are in the same price range (MB $1599 vs SB $1699?) Because if that's the case, this comparison is not good for the Macbook considering performance.
Maybe, maybe not. I'll take that from MS with a grain of salt.
Microsoft compared the surface book to the non-retina MacBook Pro. That laptop costs $1099 and is running an i5. Look, stop back pedaling. Microsoft goofed and got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Accept it and move on.
When I say top of the line MacBook, I mean top of the line MacBook, that means the i7 MacBook Pro vs the i7 surface pro. Stop playing with semantics.
i don't care about what grain of salt you take. There's already enough salt to go around.
1) Neither Apple or MS released official sales numbers for those devices, so I don't know where your numbers came from. IDC released an estimate. If you want to trust them, be my guest.
2) Agree, nobody wants to pay for music, but still there is Spotify, Apple Music and other subscription services with millions of paying customers. It's true, they were not the first, but had the best offer, unlimited music + 10 DRM free songs per month for $10.00. Isn't that better than what Spotify or Apple Music offers? How many DRM free songs per month Spotify or Apple Music includes?
3) Yes, it's true. In that case, there nothing from Apple to compare to the SB with similar dimensions and specs.
4) Yes, MS compare it to the...Macbook Pro 13", not the 15". Since you mention "thief price", have you seen to cost of the under power Macbook? Now we are talking about "thief pricing".
5) Two examples of innovation are the hybrid cooling, which I haven't seen in other device with the dimensions of the SP4 (but maybe I'm wrong). Another thing is the keyboard, which is great when you consider how thin it is. Compare that to the Macbook and iPad Pro keyboard, which are awful.
5a) Yes, I know MS devices are behind iPhone and iPad. And the two strongest Apple devices are not that strong as before. iPad sales have been down quickly in last two years, even with the release of the iPad Pro. iPhone sales were flat for this quarter, plus they already expect lower sales next quarter. If you think MS can't get any traction, then Apple is losing theirs.
1) FUD 2) well I wouldn't know because I just buy my music outright. It's not about not wanting to pay for music, it is about not wanting to feed a subscription model. 3) SB is a laptop, it got compared to a laptop after Microsoft tried to pull a fast one. 4) that MacBook costs significant;y less than the ENTRY LEVEL surface
book that Microsoft tried to pretend that it doesn't exist. Microsoft
tested a $2000 surface book against an $1099 entry level MacBook Pro and
tried to call it equal 5) MacBooks have had best in industry trackpads for years and years now but for some reason, PC manufacturers still haven't caught up to that. You complain about both thevipad pro and MacBook keyboard when both are rather nice. 5a) Microsoft still can not get traction and Apple is still leading the pack. Call it what you wish, but there is no way to define what's happened so far as any sort of victory for Microsoft in any real way.
1) What does FUD has to do with Apple and MS not releasing their devices sales?
2) Like I said before, no one wants to pay for music. But at the time, Zune gave you 10 DRM-free songs / month with their subscription, something Spotify or Apple Music does. Don't you think that it's a nice benefit?
3) Yes, SB is a laptop. That's the reason MS compares it to the MacBook Pro 13".
4) Does Apple still sell Macbook Pro with the poor screen and slow 500GB
disk? And for $1099 (You used the term "thief pricing" before, right)? If that's the case, then it should be more than 2x time
the performance, when you consider the Surface Book have PCI 3.0 SSD and a GPU with GDDR5. If you see the PC World test of the Surface Book vs the Macbook 13", you'll see that the SB is faster (sometimes close to 2x up to 3x) than the Macbook Pro 13" with applications that depend of GPU's.
Again, it's not a fair comparison because Apple has no GPU option for 13" MacBook Pro. Isn't nice that the Surface Book let's you choose to have a GPU? Apple should do the same, don't you think?
5) MacBook trackpads are the best in the market. While the keyboards in the MacBook and the iPad Pro are awful. Many of my customers have Thinkpads, and you'll notice the difference between a good and a bad keyboard. MacBook and iPad Pro are bad, while the Surface Pro is very good considering it's thinness.
5a) I suppose you are talking about mobile devices, and yes Apple is ahead and MS far behind.
Like I posted before, let's wait for Apple to release their Macbook 13" with GPU, and then a comparison can be made. Until then, there is no device from Apple that can compare directly to the SB, considering dimensions and specs.
Does it makes sense to you compare a Macbook 1.2Ghz Core M, 8GB with a SurfaceBook, Intel i5, 8Gb, only because both are in the same price range (MB $1599 vs SB $1699?) Because if that's the case, this comparison is not good for the Macbook considering performance.
Maybe, maybe not. I'll take that from MS with a grain of salt.
Microsoft compared the surface book to the non-retina MacBook Pro. That laptop costs $1099 and is running an i5. Look, stop back pedaling. Microsoft goofed and got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Accept it and move on.
When I say top of the line MacBook, I mean top of the line MacBook, that means the i7 MacBook Pro vs the i7 surface pro. Stop playing with semantics.
i don't care about what grain of salt you take. There's already enough salt to go around.
You'll see that the Surface Book was up to 3x times faster than a Macbook Pro in a specific test, while was considerably faster in GPU dependant applications, while bit slower in others. That shows the benefit of a GPU, something Apple don't have in their 13" models (I think I already mention this many times). And the comparison was made with the Macbook Pro with Retina Display, not the low end model.
You can twist benchmarks to your benefit in many ways. MS did it with the Surface Book vs Macbook Pro 13", and they are right to a some degree when you consider the GPU.
Microsoft compared the surface book to the non-retina MacBook Pro. That laptop costs $1099 and is running an i5. Look, stop back pedaling. Microsoft goofed and got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Accept it and move on.
When I say top of the line MacBook, I mean top of the line MacBook, that means the i7 MacBook Pro vs the i7 surface pro. Stop playing with semantics.
i don't care about what grain of salt you take. There's already enough salt to go around.
You'll see that the Surface Book was up to 3x times faster than a Macbook Pro in a specific test, while was considerably faster in GPU dependant applications, while bit slower in others. That shows the benefit of a GPU, something Apple don't have in their 13" models (I think I already mention this many times). And the comparison was made with the Macbook Pro with Retina Display, not the low end model.
You can twist benchmarks to your benefit in many ways. MS did it with the Surface Book vs Macbook Pro 13", and they are right to a some degree when you consider the GPU.
Again, they compared the surface book to a MacBook which was way less expensive and they completely skipped over the entry level surface book to make a comparison to an entry level MacBook Pro. There's no way around it. The entry level surface book wouldn't beat a MacBook Pro 13 in a benchmark test and it would STILL be more expensive to boot. You're talking about the GPU, but the surface book doesn't have a GPU on the entry level.
1) FUD 2) well I wouldn't know because I just buy my music outright. It's not about not wanting to pay for music, it is about not wanting to feed a subscription model. 3) SB is a laptop, it got compared to a laptop after Microsoft tried to pull a fast one. 4) that MacBook costs significant;y less than the ENTRY LEVEL surface
book that Microsoft tried to pretend that it doesn't exist. Microsoft
tested a $2000 surface book against an $1099 entry level MacBook Pro and
tried to call it equal 5) MacBooks have had best in industry trackpads for years and years now but for some reason, PC manufacturers still haven't caught up to that. You complain about both thevipad pro and MacBook keyboard when both are rather nice. 5a) Microsoft still can not get traction and Apple is still leading the pack. Call it what you wish, but there is no way to define what's happened so far as any sort of victory for Microsoft in any real way.
1) What does FUD has to do with Apple and MS not releasing their devices sales?
2) Like I said before, no one wants to pay for music. But at the time, Zune gave you 10 DRM-free songs / month with their subscription, something Spotify or Apple Music does. Don't you think that it's a nice benefit?
3) Yes, SB is a laptop. That's the reason MS compares it to the MacBook Pro 13".
4) Does Apple still sell Macbook Pro with the poor screen and slow 500GB
disk? And for $1099 (You used the term "thief pricing" before, right)? If that's the case, then it should be more than 2x time
the performance, when you consider the Surface Book have PCI 3.0 SSD and a GPU with GDDR5. If you see the PC World test of the Surface Book vs the Macbook 13", you'll see that the SB is faster (sometimes close to 2x up to 3x) than the Macbook Pro 13" with applications that depend of GPU's.
Again, it's not a fair comparison because Apple has no GPU option for 13" MacBook Pro. Isn't nice that the Surface Book let's you choose to have a GPU? Apple should do the same, don't you think?
5) MacBook trackpads are the best in the market. While the keyboards in the MacBook and the iPad Pro are awful. Many of my customers have Thinkpads, and you'll notice the difference between a good and a bad keyboard. MacBook and iPad Pro are bad, while the Surface Pro is very good considering it's thinness.
5a) I suppose you are talking about mobile devices, and yes Apple is ahead and MS far behind.
1) your argument is FUD 2) I wouldn't know, I don't use Spotify or Apple Music and I wasn't interested in Microsoft's music subscription service. If you are paying for the subscription, you are paying for those 'free tracks. Ever consider that? 3) they compared an entry level MacBook Pro to a non-entry level surface book so that they could claim that the surface book is twice X as fast as a MacBook Pro in their marketing based on one benchmark test. They aren't slick and got busted on this. Also can you shut up about that 'thief prices' bs? It was a TYPO. i was saying that microsocft should cut THEIR prices. 4) again, PC world was comparing an entry level MacBook Pro to a non entry level surface book that costs about twice as much. What part of that don't you understand? 5) the surface pro is bad in terms reliability and practicality.
5a) then why are you wasting our time defending Microsoft's marketing blowing up in their faces reputedly? Microsoft needs to find it's chill and stop embarrassing themselves like this. They need to stop publicly throwing tons of money at their problems and instead make products that are actually good instead of what they've been doing.
You'll see that the Surface Book was up to 3x times faster than a Macbook Pro in a specific test, while was considerably faster in GPU dependant applications, while bit slower in others. That shows the benefit of a GPU, something Apple don't have in their 13" models (I think I already mention this many times). And the comparison was made with the Macbook Pro with Retina Display, not the low end model.
You can twist benchmarks to your benefit in many ways. MS did it with the Surface Book vs Macbook Pro 13", and they are right to a some degree when you consider the GPU.
Again, they compared the surface book to a MacBook which was way less expensive and they completely skipped over the entry level surface book to make a comparison to an entry level MacBook Pro. There's no way around it. The entry level surface book wouldn't beat a MacBook Pro 13 in a benchmark test and it would STILL be more expensive to boot. You're talking about the GPU, but the surface book doesn't have a GPU on the entry level.
From what I have seen and read, MS compared the Surface Book to the Macbook Pro 13" with retina display. But you think other wise. That's the reason I put aside what Ms mention in the keynote and posted the PC World test. In that article they compare the Surface Book i5 w/ GPU and a MBP with Retina display. And when they benchmark Tomb Raider, the SB was 3x faster than the MBP. Same as Adobe Premiere, which was close to 40% faster. At the same time, the MBP was little faster in CPU intensive tests, since they use the 28W cpu, which is faster than the 15W CPU of the SB. One more time, the SB can be more faster than a MBP 13 with Retina when you use GPU intensive apps. I suppose that the 2x faster than MBP 13" from MS is related to the GPU and not with CPU intensive tasks. To a some degree the didn't lie.
Now if we compare the non GPU SB to a MBP 13" with retina display, there is a chance it will be faster in some tasks, like the article mentions. What it's clear is that the SB gives the option of a GPU that can be useful for many professionals, while Apple decided to not include a GPU on any MBP 13". Too bad..
1) What does FUD has to do with Apple and MS not releasing their devices sales?
2) Like I said before, no one wants to pay for music. But at the time, Zune gave you 10 DRM-free songs / month with their subscription, something Spotify or Apple Music does. Don't you think that it's a nice benefit?
3) Yes, SB is a laptop. That's the reason MS compares it to the MacBook Pro 13".
4) Does Apple still sell Macbook Pro with the poor screen and slow 500GB
disk? And for $1099 (You used the term "thief pricing" before, right)? If that's the case, then it should be more than 2x time
the performance, when you consider the Surface Book have PCI 3.0 SSD and a GPU with GDDR5. If you see the PC World test of the Surface Book vs the Macbook 13", you'll see that the SB is faster (sometimes close to 2x up to 3x) than the Macbook Pro 13" with applications that depend of GPU's.
Again, it's not a fair comparison because Apple has no GPU option for 13" MacBook Pro. Isn't nice that the Surface Book let's you choose to have a GPU? Apple should do the same, don't you think?
5) MacBook trackpads are the best in the market. While the keyboards in the MacBook and the iPad Pro are awful. Many of my customers have Thinkpads, and you'll notice the difference between a good and a bad keyboard. MacBook and iPad Pro are bad, while the Surface Pro is very good considering it's thinness.
5a) I suppose you are talking about mobile devices, and yes Apple is ahead and MS far behind.
1) your argument is FUD 2) I wouldn't know, I don't use Spotify or Apple Music and I wasn't interested in Microsoft's music subscription service. If you are paying for the subscription, you are paying for those 'free tracks. Ever consider that? 3) they compared an entry level MacBook Pro to a non-entry level surface book so that they could claim that the surface book is twice X as fast as a MacBook Pro in their marketing based on one benchmark test. They aren't slick and got busted on this. Also can you shut up about that 'thief prices' bs? It was a TYPO. i was saying that microsocft should cut THEIR prices. 4) again, PC world was comparing an entry level MacBook Pro to a non entry level surface book that costs about twice as much. What part of that don't you understand? 5) the surface pro is bad in terms reliability and practicality.
5a) then why are you wasting our time defending Microsoft's marketing blowing up in their faces reputedly? Microsoft needs to find it's chill and stop embarrassing themselves like this. They need to stop publicly throwing tons of money at their problems and instead make products that are actually good instead of what they've been doing.
1) That's your opinion.
2) Spotify and Apple Music customers pay for their subscription and there no free songs to keep. Zune has something ahead of today options, including Spotify and Apple.
3) Read the PC World article I posted, and you'll see there are task where the SB is 3x faster than the rMBP. I miss the typo. Still, the "cut their prices" line easily applies to the Macbook too.
4) The price for the entry level rMBP with 256GB SSD is $1500 ($1300 for the 128GB SSD), while the Surface Book with GPU and 256GB is $1899. That's close to 25% and not two times as you mention.
5) I have read about it and that's one of the reason I held my purchase. Looking forward to it when they fix them.
5A) I don't need defend MS, or any other company. And have no problem criticizing bad products and praising good ones, and Apple and MS have both. Right now, their mobile phone is at their worst, and Windows 10 have it's issues. But Surface Book and Surface Pro are great devices. Same same can be said from their whole cloud business. They are doing products that are good. Now, consider Apple, which has the best phone and tablet in the market, and they release products like,
Macbook: Awful keyboard, poor performance, no expansion and starts in $1300 Apple Watch and Apple Music: Heavily criticized for confusing UI. iPad Pro: Terrible keyboard, and awful ergonomics when using in vertical mode (read this article for more details, http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10)
And I may add the MacPro, iWorks, Photos as a replacement for Aperture, iTunes and the long years of the Macbook Air with it's poor screen and long time without a major upgrade. How is that better than MS embarrassments?
Again, they compared the surface book to a MacBook which was way less expensive and they completely skipped over the entry level surface book to make a comparison to an entry level MacBook Pro. There's no way around it. The entry level surface book wouldn't beat a MacBook Pro 13 in a benchmark test and it would STILL be more expensive to boot. You're talking about the GPU, but the surface book doesn't have a GPU on the entry level.
From what I have seen and read, MS compared the Surface Book to the Macbook Pro 13" with retina display. But you think other wise. That's the reason I put aside what Ms mention in the keynote and posted the PC World test. In that article they compare the Surface Book i5 w/ GPU and a MBP with Retina display. And when they benchmark Tomb Raider, the SB was 3x faster than the MBP. Same as Adobe Premiere, which was close to 40% faster. At the same time, the MBP was little faster in CPU intensive tests, since they use the 28W cpu, which is faster than the 15W CPU of the SB. One more time, the SB can be more faster than a MBP 13 with Retina when you use GPU intensive apps. I suppose that the 2x faster than MBP 13" from MS is related to the GPU and not with CPU intensive tasks. To a some degree the didn't lie.
Now if we compare the non GPU SB to a MBP 13" with retina display, there is a chance it will be faster in some tasks, like the article mentions. What it's clear is that the SB gives the option of a GPU that can be useful for many professionals, while Apple decided to not include a GPU on any MBP 13". Too bad..
it doesn't matter, the surface book that they compared to the MacBook Pro still costs hundreds more than the retina MacBook Pro.
My my point is that Microsoft was FIBBING FIBBING FIBBING when they made their original claim. They have TWO non GPU models that they skipped over to compare to a less expensive MacBook Pro. Then, when compared to a MacBook that has a GPU you call foul.
1) your argument is FUD 2) I wouldn't know, I don't use Spotify or Apple Music and I wasn't interested in Microsoft's music subscription service. If you are paying for the subscription, you are paying for those 'free tracks. Ever consider that? 3) they compared an entry level MacBook Pro to a non-entry level surface book so that they could claim that the surface book is twice X as fast as a MacBook Pro in their marketing based on one benchmark test. They aren't slick and got busted on this. Also can you shut up about that 'thief prices' bs? It was a TYPO. i was saying that microsocft should cut THEIR prices. 4) again, PC world was comparing an entry level MacBook Pro to a non entry level surface book that costs about twice as much. What part of that don't you understand? 5) the surface pro is bad in terms reliability and practicality.
5a) then why are you wasting our time defending Microsoft's marketing blowing up in their faces reputedly? Microsoft needs to find it's chill and stop embarrassing themselves like this. They need to stop publicly throwing tons of money at their problems and instead make products that are actually good instead of what they've been doing.
1) That's your opinion.
2) Spotify and Apple Music customers pay for their subscription and there no free songs to keep. Zune has something ahead of today options, including Spotify and Apple.
3) Read the PC World article I posted, and you'll see there are task where the SB is 3x faster than the rMBP. I miss the typo. Still, the "cut their prices" line easily applies to the Macbook too.
4) The price for the entry level rMBP with 256GB SSD is $1500 ($1300 for the 128GB SSD), while the Surface Book with GPU and 256GB is $1899. That's close to 25% and not two times as you mention.
5) I have read about it and that's one of the reason I held my purchase. Looking forward to it when they fix them.
5A) I don't need defend MS, or any other company. And have no problem criticizing bad products and praising good ones, and Apple and MS have both. Right now, their mobile phone is at their worst, and Windows 10 have it's issues. But Surface Book and Surface Pro are great devices. Same same can be said from their whole cloud business. They are doing products that are good. Now, consider Apple, which has the best phone and tablet in the market, and they release products like,
Macbook: Awful keyboard, poor performance, no expansion and starts in $1300 Apple Watch and Apple Music: Heavily criticized for confusing UI. iPad Pro: Terrible keyboard, and awful ergonomics when using in vertical mode (read this article for more details, http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10)
And I may add the MacPro, iWorks, Photos as a replacement for Aperture, iTunes and the long years of the Macbook Air with it's poor screen and long time without a major upgrade. How is that better than MS embarrassments?
1) no, it is my observation. 2) why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Sounds like Apple and Spotify made a shrewd business decision unlike Microsoft which believes in holding a fire sale to try and buy customers. 3) the only task that was 3x faster on the SB was running tomb raider and that's because it had a dedicated GPU while the significantly cheaper MacBook Pro does not. It was also faster f\running premiere pro because (gasp) the surface book had a dGPU while the significantly less expensive MacBook Pro did not. 4) the entry level surface book has 128gb of storage. It costs $1500. The entry level MacBook retina has 128gb of storage and costs $200 less. The surface book that was used in the Microsoft test costs AT LEAST $1900 if not more. the point is that Microsoft completely and PURPOSEFULLY skipped over the non dGPU versions of the surface pro to specifically bench it against a MacBook Pro that they know doesn't have a dGPU to make a bogus claim that the surface book is faster than the MacBook Pro. Even your article does this when they go out of their way to test a dGPU surface book against a non dGPU MacBook Pro, going as far as to borrow the dGPU keyboard from an i7 Surface book! 5) if you wait for Microsoft to not be poor quality then you'll never buy Microsoft products. 5a) the surface pro and surface book are not great products. Both are rife with bugs and design flaws as well as a sub-par digital pen. The surface book itself only has a three hour battery life when in tablet mode and the base can't be used to charge the tablet section.
-You complain about the macbook's and iPad's keyboard,Chet I've used both and they feel great. -You complain about the Apple Watch, but Apple has moved more Apple watches in one year than Microsoft has moved surface devices in the totality of the product line. -You mention the iWork, but there's NOTHING wrong with iWork. Just learn the interface and it's great. I prefer it over MS Office with Microsoft's typically poor rendering engine. I can actually make print ready layouts in pages that won't come out all dithered with streaks or look like they were obviously made in word using some sort of template or something. -There's really nothing wrong with the Mac Pro. Workstations have a long update cycle. -I don't have any problems with iTunes.
how is that better than Microsoft embarrassments? Ok.
let's see.
-Microsoft remains #3 in a 3 system console market after losing billions for years on the Xbox 360 -anyone remember all their vaporware? I sure do. Remember their original surface, which was a table? How about their dual screen tablet that never materialized? Or the origami. Anyone remember that?
-anyone remember the zune? Zune hd? -how about Windows phone? Remember that? How about the Kin? I remember Microsoft fanboys singing the praises of that while claiming it will kill the iPhone. -when was the last time anyone used Bing? Remember that? -How about the surface RT? -Remember Vista? Remember Windows 8? Remember Windows ME? -Speaking of Windows, how do you like Windows phoning home with hashes of the images you look at? -how about the numerous times Microsoft was caught red-handed using shills and astroturfing?
-how about that time Steve ballmer laughed at the iPhone just to be proven do very very wrong less than a year later? -Clippy... Need I say more? -how about 2010 CES when Microsoft and it's partners slapped together some terrible slate tablets and tried to sell people on Windows slate tablets right before the iPad came out a month later and blew them clean away?
From what I have seen and read, MS compared the Surface Book to the Macbook Pro 13" with retina display. But you think other wise. That's the reason I put aside what Ms mention in the keynote and posted the PC World test. In that article they compare the Surface Book i5 w/ GPU and a MBP with Retina display. And when they benchmark Tomb Raider, the SB was 3x faster than the MBP. Same as Adobe Premiere, which was close to 40% faster. At the same time, the MBP was little faster in CPU intensive tests, since they use the 28W cpu, which is faster than the 15W CPU of the SB. One more time, the SB can be more faster than a MBP 13 with Retina when you use GPU intensive apps. I suppose that the 2x faster than MBP 13" from MS is related to the GPU and not with CPU intensive tasks. To a some degree the didn't lie.
Now if we compare the non GPU SB to a MBP 13" with retina display, there is a chance it will be faster in some tasks, like the article mentions. What it's clear is that the SB gives the option of a GPU that can be useful for many professionals, while Apple decided to not include a GPU on any MBP 13". Too bad..
it doesn't matter, the surface book that they compared to the MacBook Pro still costs hundreds more than the retina MacBook Pro.
My my point is that Microsoft was FIBBING FIBBING FIBBING when they made their original claim. They have TWO non GPU models that they skipped over to compare to a less expensive MacBook Pro. Then, when compared to a MacBook that has a GPU you call foul.
If you noticed I already mention that there is a chance MS took advantage of the Surface Book GPU to say that it's 2x faster than a rMBP, and PC World tests seem support that in specific tests with applications that benefit of a GPU. So looks like MS didn't lie. rMBP vs Surface Book without GPU will be a different story since the rMBP has a 28W CPU with higher clock speed. But based in the same PC World article, the rMBP advantage was minimum in the tests they did. Maybe Apple should consider a rMBP 13" with a GPU, which benefits many professionals.
Now you want to compare the 13.5" Surface Book to the 15.4" rMBP, (which is heavier and larger, GPU), because the price difference between devices (rMBP 13" less expensive, rMBP 15"similar pricing). Your criteria means that I should compare the high end Macbook w 12" screen and Core M processor to the Surface Book i5 w/o GPU since both have similar pricing ($1599 / $1699). What do you think of this comparison? I can easily say that the Surface Book is faster than the Macbook. Still, they are two completely different devices, even though pricing is similar. Pricing is one criteria among others that defines how a devices is categorised, including dimensions, weight and the market it was designed for (home, business, CAD/CAM, etc). For me it means that the Surface Book is very similar to the rMBP 13" (I use the term "similar" because there is no Apple device that compares to the Surface Book 1-to-1), and you'll see many articles doing the same comparison. But you can have your own criteria to compare devices that don't have to be same as mine.
2) Spotify and Apple Music customers pay for their subscription and there no free songs to keep. Zune has something ahead of today options, including Spotify and Apple.
3) Read the PC World article I posted, and you'll see there are task where the SB is 3x faster than the rMBP. I miss the typo. Still, the "cut their prices" line easily applies to the Macbook too.
4) The price for the entry level rMBP with 256GB SSD is $1500 ($1300 for the 128GB SSD), while the Surface Book with GPU and 256GB is $1899. That's close to 25% and not two times as you mention.
5) I have read about it and that's one of the reason I held my purchase. Looking forward to it when they fix them.
5A) I don't need defend MS, or any other company. And have no problem criticizing bad products and praising good ones, and Apple and MS have both. Right now, their mobile phone is at their worst, and Windows 10 have it's issues. But Surface Book and Surface Pro are great devices. Same same can be said from their whole cloud business. They are doing products that are good. Now, consider Apple, which has the best phone and tablet in the market, and they release products like,
Macbook: Awful keyboard, poor performance, no expansion and starts in $1300 Apple Watch and Apple Music: Heavily criticized for confusing UI. iPad Pro: Terrible keyboard, and awful ergonomics when using in vertical mode (read this article for more details, http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10)
And I may add the MacPro, iWorks, Photos as a replacement for Aperture, iTunes and the long years of the Macbook Air with it's poor screen and long time without a major upgrade. How is that better than MS embarrassments?
1) no, it is my observation. 2) why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Sounds like Apple and Spotify made a shrewd business decision unlike Microsoft which believes in holding a fire sale to try and buy customers. 3) the only task that was 3x faster on the SB was running tomb raider and that's because it had a dedicated GPU while the significantly cheaper MacBook Pro does not. It was also faster f\running premiere pro because (gasp) the surface book had a dGPU while the significantly less expensive MacBook Pro did not. 4) the entry level surface book has 128gb of storage. It costs $1500. The entry level MacBook retina has 128gb of storage and costs $200 less. The surface book that was used in the Microsoft test costs AT LEAST $1900 if not more. the point is that Microsoft completely and PURPOSEFULLY skipped over the non dGPU versions of the surface pro to specifically bench it against a MacBook Pro that they know doesn't have a dGPU to make a bogus claim that the surface book is faster than the MacBook Pro. Even your article does this when they go out of their way to test a dGPU surface book against a non dGPU MacBook Pro, going as far as to borrow the dGPU keyboard from an i7 Surface book! 5) if you wait for Microsoft to not be poor quality then you'll never buy Microsoft products. 5a) the surface pro and surface book are not great products. Both are rife with bugs and design flaws as well as a sub-par digital pen. The surface book itself only has a three hour battery life when in tablet mode and the base can't be used to charge the tablet section.
1) Your observation is based in an opinion.
2) From a business POV, Spotify and Apple decision was better for them, while MS offer was better for customers. Too bad the best option for the customer didn't win, don't you think?
3) I have been saying this all the time.
4) The $200 price difference between the two entry options is easy to undestand, since the Surface Book has a 3000x2000 detachable touch screen and includes the stylus. You can only assume what model MS use for their benchmark and comparison, and since neither do I, I'll not comment on that since I don't know all details. That's the reason I refer to the PC World article which confirm 3x in TR and 40% in Adobe Premiere. So it looks like MS didn't lie at all, if you consider they may have use GPU optimized applications. BTW, don't you think it's nice that you can switch the GPU base between the i5 and i7 display?
5) Yes, they have their issues with Surface Book and SP4. BTW, you consider Apple quality poor when they released iOS 7, iOS 8, OS X 10.7 - 10.9 with the long list of bugs? I remember when some articles compare OS X 10.7 to Windows Vista. That's awful, don't you think? Even more recent articles mention how Apple quality has been downhill.
I suppose you don't have MS, neither Apple product because of their poor quality, right?
5a) Yes, both SB and SP4 are great devices, even their recent missteps. I have read that the Pencil is better than the Pen, but I haven't read that it is sub-par. And now that you mention sub-par accessories, do you want to talk about the iPad Pro keyboard? And yes, too bad the SB screen has a low battery life and cannot be charged from the station. I hope these two issues are solved with v2.0
-You complain about the macbook's and iPad's keyboard,Chet I've used both and they feel great. -You
complain about the Apple Watch, but Apple has moved more Apple watches
in one year than Microsoft has moved surface devices in the totality of
the product line. -You mention the iWork, but there's NOTHING wrong
with iWork. Just learn the interface and it's great. I prefer it over MS
Office with Microsoft's typically poor rendering engine. I can actually
make print ready layouts in pages that won't come out all dithered with
streaks or look like they were obviously made in word using some sort
of template or something. -There's really nothing wrong with the Mac Pro. Workstations have a long update cycle. -I don't have any problems with iTunes.
- Both of them are awful, and from what I have read in many article is that you have get use to it. Since when do I have get use to a good keyboard? I didn't have to get use to Macbooks trackpads becase they are good. The same is for keyboards, don't you think.
- Quantity =/= Quality
- Yes, there is a lot wrong with iWork, specially in business / enterprise environments. Did you notice that even Apple didn't show iWorks in the iPad Pro keynote?
- Yes, there is a lot wrong with it. Starting with poor expansion and just a single CPU. Compare that to a HP Z-workstation and you'll see what's wrong.
- So do you suppose because you don't have problems with iTunes, then other people have the same experience.
how is that better than Microsoft embarrassments? Ok.
let's see.
-Microsoft remains #3 in a 3 system console market after losing billions for years on the Xbox 360 -anyone
remember all their vaporware? I sure do. Remember their original
surface, which was a table? How about their dual screen tablet that
never materialized? Or the origami. Anyone remember that?
-anyone remember the zune? Zune hd? -how
about Windows phone? Remember that? How about the Kin? I remember
Microsoft fanboys singing the praises of that while claiming it will
kill the iPhone. -when was the last time anyone used Bing? Remember that? -How about the surface RT? -Remember Vista? Remember Windows 8? Remember Windows ME? -Speaking of Windows, how do you like Windows phoning home with hashes of the images you look at? -how about the numerous times Microsoft was caught red-handed using shills and astroturfing?
-how about that time Steve ballmer laughed at the iPhone just to be proven do very very wrong less than a year later? -Clippy... Need I say more? -how
about 2010 CES when Microsoft and it's partners slapped together some
terrible slate tablets and tried to sell people on Windows slate tablets
right before the iPad came out a month later and blew them clean away?
- If you are talking about current gen, XOne is #2, and their sales are x2 over previous generations. BTW, what it has to do with the quality of the console and games? - The original Surface is now the Surface Hub, and it's going to be released in Q1. Is that vaporware to you? And the Courier, that was sad to see it goes. I hope to see it's features implemented in a Surface app. That would be nice.
- From what I have read, they were great devices. Too bad they went away. - Isn't Apple using Bing for Siri results? - Surface RT as a devices is dead, as a concept, still many of it's ideas in the SP4. - Those three releases of Windows were not MS highlights. But you know that OS X 10.7 was considered as bad or worst that Vista? http://www.zdnet.com/article/os-x-10-7-lion-is-more-painful-than-vista/ And I never thought it was possible to be worst than Vista, and some way Apple made it happen. - Too bad when it happen. Hope it won't happen again. - That's the reason MS lost the mobile phone market and Ballmer is no more. - Great idea, bad implementation. Now it evolved in Office 2016 with Tell Me. - Another reason Ballmer is no more. I have noticed tables are turning. Do you remember the Apple June event, with Apple Music? That was one of the most boring events I have seen. And compare that to the SP4 / Surface Book event, that was praised in many articles. I hope Apple recover from that event while MS keep doing what they did in their last one.
I was laughing so hard when this happened and wondered if DED would make an article. Was not disappointed.
Honestly they'd be better served with iPad Pros.
It really doesn't matter what they use, the front end system is not the problem it's the back end. Though I agree, a Surface Pro 4 seems like an overkill when a device running a mobile OS would probably be more than suffice.
1) no, it is my observation. 2) why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Sounds like Apple and Spotify made a shrewd business decision unlike Microsoft which believes in holding a fire sale to try and buy customers. 3) the only task that was 3x faster on the SB was running tomb raider and that's because it had a dedicated GPU while the significantly cheaper MacBook Pro does not. It was also faster f\running premiere pro because (gasp) the surface book had a dGPU while the significantly less expensive MacBook Pro did not. 4) the entry level surface book has 128gb of storage. It costs $1500. The entry level MacBook retina has 128gb of storage and costs $200 less. The surface book that was used in the Microsoft test costs AT LEAST $1900 if not more. the point is that Microsoft completely and PURPOSEFULLY skipped over the non dGPU versions of the surface pro to specifically bench it against a MacBook Pro that they know doesn't have a dGPU to make a bogus claim that the surface book is faster than the MacBook Pro. Even your article does this when they go out of their way to test a dGPU surface book against a non dGPU MacBook Pro, going as far as to borrow the dGPU keyboard from an i7 Surface book! 5) if you wait for Microsoft to not be poor quality then you'll never buy Microsoft products. 5a) the surface pro and surface book are not great products. Both are rife with bugs and design flaws as well as a sub-par digital pen. The surface book itself only has a three hour battery life when in tablet mode and the base can't be used to charge the tablet section.
1) Your observation is based in an opinion.
2) From a business POV, Spotify and Apple decision was better for them, while MS offer was better for customers. Too bad the best option for the customer didn't win, don't you think?
3) I have been saying this all the time.
4) The $200 price difference between the two entry options is easy to undestand, since the Surface Book has a 3000x2000 detachable touch screen and includes the stylus. You can only assume what model MS use for their benchmark and comparison, and since neither do I, I'll not comment on that since I don't know all details. That's the reason I refer to the PC World article which confirm 3x in TR and 40% in Adobe Premiere. So it looks like MS didn't lie at all, if you consider they may have use GPU optimized applications. BTW, don't you think it's nice that you can switch the GPU base between the i5 and i7 display?
5) Yes, they have their issues with Surface Book and SP4. BTW, you consider Apple quality poor when they released iOS 7, iOS 8, OS X 10.7 - 10.9 with the long list of bugs? I remember when some articles compare OS X 10.7 to Windows Vista. That's awful, don't you think? Even more recent articles mention how Apple quality has been downhill.
I suppose you don't have MS, neither Apple product because of their poor quality, right?
5a) Yes, both SB and SP4 are great devices, even their recent missteps. I have read that the Pencil is better than the Pen, but I haven't read that it is sub-par. And now that you mention sub-par accessories, do you want to talk about the iPad Pro keyboard? And yes, too bad the SB screen has a low battery life and cannot be charged from the station. I hope these two issues are solved with v2.0 - Both of them are awful, and from what I have read in many article is that you have get use to it. Since when do I have get use to a good keyboard? I didn't have to get use to Macbooks trackpads becase they are good. The same is for keyboards, don't you think.
- Quantity =/= Quality
- Yes, there is a lot wrong with iWork, specially in business / enterprise environments. Did you notice that even Apple didn't show iWorks in the iPad Pro keynote?
- Yes, there is a lot wrong with it. Starting with poor expansion and just a single CPU. Compare that to a HP Z-workstation and you'll see what's wrong.
- So do you suppose because you don't have problems with iTunes, then other people have the same experience.
- If you are talking about current gen, XOne is #2, and their sales are x2 over previous generations. BTW, what it has to do with the quality of the console and games? - The original Surface is now the Surface Hub, and it's going to be released in Q1. Is that vaporware to you? And the Courier, that was sad to see it goes. I hope to see it's features implemented in a Surface app. That would be nice.
- From what I have read, they were great devices. Too bad they went away. - Isn't Apple using Bing for Siri results? - Surface RT as a devices is dead, as a concept, still many of it's ideas in the SP4. - Those three releases of Windows were not MS highlights. But you know that OS X 10.7 was considered as bad or worst that Vista? http://www.zdnet.com/article/os-x-10-7-lion-is-more-painful-than-vista/ And I never thought it was possible to be worst than Vista, and some way Apple made it happen. - Too bad when it happen. Hope it won't happen again. - That's the reason MS lost the mobile phone market and Ballmer is no more. - Great idea, bad implementation. Now it evolved in Office 2016 with Tell Me. - Another reason Ballmer is no more. I have noticed tables are turning. Do you remember the Apple June event, with Apple Music? That was one of the most boring events I have seen. And compare that to the SP4 / Surface Book event, that was praised in many articles. I hope Apple recover from that event while MS keep doing what they did in their last one.
1) my observation of your behavior. 2) buying a zune and getting wrapped up with Microsoft was not the best option for the consumer. 3) then hush. 4) it doesn't matter. The surface book costs more and doesn't perform as well. 5) the issues with the surface pro and surface book dwarf any that Apple had with their products. If Apple products released with that laundry list of issues, the yelling over it would have been deafening and endless. Also, for the record, the verge is a well known anti-apple publication. 5a) define great. The n-trig based surface pen is worse than a Wacom and the Apple pencil. I used the Smart keyboard and it worked well for me. There's really not much to complain about from my experience.
-Microsoft doesn't have quantity OR quality here. That's the issue. -Well Apple didn't talk about i#ork because there's really nothing new to say. What are they going to say? It's bigger? Still at the end of the day, iWork is great. -those are just your opinions of the Mac Pro bro. As a computer it is just fine and the smaller size of it has its uses. -Xbox one sales = 10 million / Wii U sales = 12.6 million / PlayStation 4 = 36 million - mine uses google. You know, because that's my preferred search engine in safari and Siri goes off of your preferred search engine. -oh, I'm sure that there's no shortage of articles badmouthing Apple. Especially on zdnet. -well it's still happening but ok. -Microsoft is still doing ballmer did then. -Clippy will always be a bad idea -keep in mind that the iPad pro came out and blew the entire surface line away on its debut quarter.
it doesn't matter, the surface book that they compared to the MacBook Pro still costs hundreds more than the retina MacBook Pro.
My my point is that Microsoft was FIBBING FIBBING FIBBING when they made their original claim. They have TWO non GPU models that they skipped over to compare to a less expensive MacBook Pro. Then, when compared to a MacBook that has a GPU you call foul.
If you noticed I already mention that there is a chance MS took advantage of the Surface Book GPU to say that it's 2x faster than a rMBP, and PC World tests seem support that in specific tests with applications that benefit of a GPU. So looks like MS didn't lie. rMBP vs Surface Book without GPU will be a different story since the rMBP has a 28W CPU with higher clock speed. But based in the same PC World article, the rMBP advantage was minimum in the tests they did. Maybe Apple should consider a rMBP 13" with a GPU, which benefits many professionals.
Now you want to compare the 13.5" Surface Book to the 15.4" rMBP, (which is heavier and larger, GPU), because the price difference between devices (rMBP 13" less expensive, rMBP 15"similar pricing). Your criteria means that I should compare the high end Macbook w 12" screen and Core M processor to the Surface Book i5 w/o GPU since both have similar pricing ($1599 / $1699). What do you think of this comparison? I can easily say that the Surface Book is faster than the Macbook. Still, they are two completely different devices, even though pricing is similar. Pricing is one criteria among others that defines how a devices is categorised, including dimensions, weight and the market it was designed for (home, business, CAD/CAM, etc). For me it means that the Surface Book is very similar to the rMBP 13" (I use the term "similar" because there is no Apple device that compares to the Surface Book 1-to-1), and you'll see many articles doing the same comparison. But you can have your own criteria to compare devices that don't have to be same as mine.
Look, Microsoft made a broken comparison, I suggested ways to fix it.
1) compare the entry level MacBook Pro to an entry level surface book 2) compare the GPU surface book to the MacBook Pro that has a GPU.
comparing the entry level MacBook Pro to a mid-tier surface book is nothing but smoke and mirrors and Microsoft set themselves up to get called on their BS. There's no way around it. They said that the surface book was faster than MacBook Pro. Well they were proven wrong. Learn to live with it.
If you noticed I already mention that there is a chance MS took advantage of the Surface Book GPU to say that it's 2x faster than a rMBP, and PC World tests seem support that in specific tests with applications that benefit of a GPU. So looks like MS didn't lie. rMBP vs Surface Book without GPU will be a different story since the rMBP has a 28W CPU with higher clock speed. But based in the same PC World article, the rMBP advantage was minimum in the tests they did. Maybe Apple should consider a rMBP 13" with a GPU, which benefits many professionals.
Now you want to compare the 13.5" Surface Book to the 15.4" rMBP, (which is heavier and larger, GPU), because the price difference between devices (rMBP 13" less expensive, rMBP 15"similar pricing). Your criteria means that I should compare the high end Macbook w 12" screen and Core M processor to the Surface Book i5 w/o GPU since both have similar pricing ($1599 / $1699). What do you think of this comparison? I can easily say that the Surface Book is faster than the Macbook. Still, they are two completely different devices, even though pricing is similar. Pricing is one criteria among others that defines how a devices is categorised, including dimensions, weight and the market it was designed for (home, business, CAD/CAM, etc). For me it means that the Surface Book is very similar to the rMBP 13" (I use the term "similar" because there is no Apple device that compares to the Surface Book 1-to-1), and you'll see many articles doing the same comparison. But you can have your own criteria to compare devices that don't have to be same as mine.
Look, Microsoft made a broken comparison, I suggested ways to fix it.
1) compare the entry level MacBook Pro to an entry level surface book 2) compare the GPU surface book to the MacBook Pro that has a GPU.
comparing the entry level MacBook Pro to a mid-tier surface book is nothing but smoke and mirrors and Microsoft set themselves up to get called on their BS. There's no way around it. They said that the surface book was faster than MacBook Pro. Well they were proven wrong. Learn to live with it.
Based in the PC World article,
1) rMBP has a slight advantage over the Surface Book. 2) 28W Quad core CPU + GPU has big advantage over the Surface Book 15W Dual Core + GPU.
I'll add a third one,
3) rMBP 13" vs Surface Book (similar as MS comparison from keynote), gives an advantage to rMBP in CPU intensive tasks while Surface Book has a massive advantage in GPU dependant applications. Considering PC World you can say to a some degree that MS didn't lie, right?
2) From a business POV, Spotify and Apple decision was better for them, while MS offer was better for customers. Too bad the best option for the customer didn't win, don't you think?
3) I have been saying this all the time.
4) The $200 price difference between the two entry options is easy to undestand, since the Surface Book has a 3000x2000 detachable touch screen and includes the stylus. You can only assume what model MS use for their benchmark and comparison, and since neither do I, I'll not comment on that since I don't know all details. That's the reason I refer to the PC World article which confirm 3x in TR and 40% in Adobe Premiere. So it looks like MS didn't lie at all, if you consider they may have use GPU optimized applications. BTW, don't you think it's nice that you can switch the GPU base between the i5 and i7 display?
5) Yes, they have their issues with Surface Book and SP4. BTW, you consider Apple quality poor when they released iOS 7, iOS 8, OS X 10.7 - 10.9 with the long list of bugs? I remember when some articles compare OS X 10.7 to Windows Vista. That's awful, don't you think? Even more recent articles mention how Apple quality has been downhill.
I suppose you don't have MS, neither Apple product because of their poor quality, right?
5a) Yes, both SB and SP4 are great devices, even their recent missteps. I have read that the Pencil is better than the Pen, but I haven't read that it is sub-par. And now that you mention sub-par accessories, do you want to talk about the iPad Pro keyboard? And yes, too bad the SB screen has a low battery life and cannot be charged from the station. I hope these two issues are solved with v2.0 - Both of them are awful, and from what I have read in many article is that you have get use to it. Since when do I have get use to a good keyboard? I didn't have to get use to Macbooks trackpads becase they are good. The same is for keyboards, don't you think.
- Quantity =/= Quality
- Yes, there is a lot wrong with iWork, specially in business / enterprise environments. Did you notice that even Apple didn't show iWorks in the iPad Pro keynote?
- Yes, there is a lot wrong with it. Starting with poor expansion and just a single CPU. Compare that to a HP Z-workstation and you'll see what's wrong.
- So do you suppose because you don't have problems with iTunes, then other people have the same experience.
- If you are talking about current gen, XOne is #2, and their sales are x2 over previous generations. BTW, what it has to do with the quality of the console and games? - The original Surface is now the Surface Hub, and it's going to be released in Q1. Is that vaporware to you? And the Courier, that was sad to see it goes. I hope to see it's features implemented in a Surface app. That would be nice.
- From what I have read, they were great devices. Too bad they went away. - Isn't Apple using Bing for Siri results? - Surface RT as a devices is dead, as a concept, still many of it's ideas in the SP4. - Those three releases of Windows were not MS highlights. But you know that OS X 10.7 was considered as bad or worst that Vista? http://www.zdnet.com/article/os-x-10-7-lion-is-more-painful-than-vista/ And I never thought it was possible to be worst than Vista, and some way Apple made it happen. - Too bad when it happen. Hope it won't happen again. - That's the reason MS lost the mobile phone market and Ballmer is no more. - Great idea, bad implementation. Now it evolved in Office 2016 with Tell Me. - Another reason Ballmer is no more. I have noticed tables are turning. Do you remember the Apple June event, with Apple Music? That was one of the most boring events I have seen. And compare that to the SP4 / Surface Book event, that was praised in many articles. I hope Apple recover from that event while MS keep doing what they did in their last one.
1) my observation of your behavior. 2) buying a zune and getting wrapped up with Microsoft was not the best option for the consumer. 3) then hush. 4) it doesn't matter. The surface book costs more and doesn't perform as well. 5) the issues with the surface pro and surface book dwarf any that Apple had with their products. If Apple products released with that laundry list of issues, the yelling over it would have been deafening and endless. Also, for the record, the verge is a well known anti-apple publication. 5a) define great. The n-trig based surface pen is worse than a Wacom and the Apple pencil. I used the Smart keyboard and it worked well for me. There's really not much to complain about from my experience.
-Microsoft doesn't have quantity OR quality here. That's the issue. -Well Apple didn't talk about i#ork because there's really nothing new to say. What are they going to say? It's bigger? Still at the end of the day, iWork is great. -those are just your opinions of the Mac Pro bro. As a computer it is just fine and the smaller size of it has its uses. -Xbox one sales = 10 million / Wii U sales = 12.6 million / PlayStation 4 = 36 million - mine uses google. You know, because that's my preferred search engine in safari and Siri goes off of your preferred search engine. -oh, I'm sure that there's no shortage of articles badmouthing Apple. Especially on zdnet. -well it's still happening but ok. -Microsoft is still doing ballmer did then. -Clippy will always be a bad idea -keep in mind that the iPad pro came out and blew the entire surface line away on its debut quarter.
1) If it's "your" observation then it's "your" opinion.
2) The 10 DRM free songs per month was great for consumers. Those people still can hear those songs in their favorite devices today. Beautiful, isn't? Again, how many songs do I get free with Spotify or Apple Music? How many songs do I keep if I cancel the subscription?
3) If you said so...
4) Yes, it cost more and PC World say it performs very well specially with GPU.
5) Do you have any link with specific numbers about SB / SP4 problems vs Apple devices? I haven't seen any. BTW, Apple is offering free repairs for the 2013 Macbook Pro with problems like problems like "distorted or non-existent graphics, as well as freezing, reboots, sudden shutdowns, or even a system failing to start".
So we have a device that starts a $3000, with major problems and after 3yrs Apple decide to fix it. Is that the quality you are talking about? You know what, I prefer the MS way of being open about the problem while working the fix than keep customer for 3yrs with problems without any kind of information. Interesting that this is not the first time. Remember when it happen with the Macbook Pro?
Is this the company you defend so much? I love and have Apple devices, but I have no problem pointing this kind of issues (same as for MS with Surface). And you? Like I said before, both companies have things to praise and other to criticize. Don't you agree?
5a) Pencil being better doesn't makes Pen a bad accessory. Completely different from the Smart Keyboard with it's, shallow keys, single angle position, no backlight and no trackpad,which makes using the iPad Pro awkward when it's used in vertical. (At least that was what SJ said based considering studies Apple made years ago, ). Apple decide to ignore those studies and release the Smart Keyboard. Compare that to the SP4 keyboard which has very good tactile feeling, trackpad and backlight. Looks like SP4 keyboard is better.
- That depends. For example, iPhone is miles ahead of Windows Phone in quality and quantity. The same can be said of Office 2016 / 365 vs iWorks or Windows Server vs OS X Server. I can write a longer list, but I think you got my point.
- It's nice to hear that iWorks works for you. But MS Office still the best, and there is nothing close to it.
- I suppose there is people what are fine with a Mac Pro. But what about high end users how need large quantity of RAM, more expansion and multiples CPU's? They have to look elsewhere, like HP, for high end workstations.
- I haven't seen any recent reports. Can you post links?
- No, today MS is very different from the Ballmer MS. Same as today's Apple is different from past Apple, and not necessary for the better.
- Don't worry, Clippy is no more, now is Tell Me. Same as iTunes Ping was a bad idea, and it's no more. It happens to every company.
- Maybe, maybe not. Like I posted before, those were IDC estimates. I won't comment on sales since Apple neither MS release any numbers. I don't get why Apple didn't release specific numbers since the iPad Pro sold so well. Strange, isn't? What I can say is that iPad Pro didn't stop iPad sales from going down again.
"Struggling product"
Who wrote this? Surface products are selling like hotcakes. Your example of how Surface failed was Surface RT. Yes, RT was an objective failure, however the x86 implementations of Surface have been resounding commercial successes. The fact that you use this as an example shows that you are either hideously biased, or don't know what you're writing about. Plus you're going to quote NFL players and coaches on technology issues? What do they know? If it's a network or server issue the same thing would happen with any device. If you're not going to be objective or knowledgeable, don't be a journalist.
lol.... hotcakes ? Less than 2 millions in the last quarter. Even the iPad Pro sold more than that.
Microsoft compared the surface book to the non-retina MacBook Pro. That laptop costs $1099 and is running an i5. Look, stop back pedaling. Microsoft goofed and got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Accept it and move on.
When I say top of the line MacBook, I mean top of the line MacBook, that means the i7 MacBook Pro vs the i7 surface pro. Stop playing with semantics.
i don't care about what grain of salt you take. There's already enough salt to go around.
You'll see that the Surface Book was up to 3x times faster than a Macbook Pro in a specific test, while was considerably faster in GPU dependant applications, while bit slower in others. That shows the benefit of a GPU, something Apple don't have in their 13" models (I think I already mention this many times). And the comparison was made with the Macbook Pro with Retina Display, not the low end model.
You can twist benchmarks to your benefit in many ways. MS did it with the Surface Book vs Macbook Pro 13", and they are right to a some degree when you consider the GPU.
Am I the only one seeing your blind defense of the Surface Flop as utterly ridiculous ?
Using PCword as backup for a Microsoft defense, lol
Comments
Does it makes sense to you compare a Macbook 1.2Ghz Core M, 8GB with a SurfaceBook, Intel i5, 8Gb, only because both are in the same price range (MB $1599 vs SB $1699?) Because if that's the case, this comparison is not good for the Macbook considering performance.
Maybe, maybe not. I'll take that from MS with a grain of salt.
2) well I wouldn't know because I just buy my music outright. It's not about not wanting to pay for music, it is about not wanting to feed a subscription model.
3) SB is a laptop, it got compared to a laptop after Microsoft tried to pull a fast one.
4) that MacBook costs significant;y less than the ENTRY LEVEL surface book that Microsoft tried to pretend that it doesn't exist. Microsoft tested a $2000 surface book against an $1099 entry level MacBook Pro and tried to call it equal.
5) MacBooks have had best in industry trackpads for years and years now but for some reason, PC manufacturers still haven't caught up to that. You complain about both thevipad pro and MacBook keyboard when both are rather nice.
5a) Microsoft still can not get traction and Apple is still leading the pack. Call it what you wish, but there is no way to define what's happened so far as any sort of victory for Microsoft in any real way.
Microsoft compared the surface book to the non-retina MacBook Pro. That laptop costs $1099 and is running an i5. Look, stop back pedaling. Microsoft goofed and got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Accept it and move on.
When I say top of the line MacBook, I mean top of the line MacBook, that means the i7 MacBook Pro vs the i7 surface pro. Stop playing with semantics.
i don't care about what grain of salt you take. There's already enough salt to go around.
2) Like I said before, no one wants to pay for music. But at the time, Zune gave you 10 DRM-free songs / month with their subscription, something Spotify or Apple Music does. Don't you think that it's a nice benefit?
3) Yes, SB is a laptop. That's the reason MS compares it to the MacBook Pro 13".
4) Does Apple still sell Macbook Pro with the poor screen and slow 500GB disk? And for $1099 (You used the term "thief pricing" before, right)? If that's the case, then it should be more than 2x time the performance, when you consider the Surface Book have PCI 3.0 SSD and a GPU with GDDR5. If you see the PC World test of the Surface Book vs the Macbook 13", you'll see that the SB is faster (sometimes close to 2x up to 3x) than the Macbook Pro 13" with applications that depend of GPU's.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2995599/laptop-computers/surface-book-vs-macbook-pro-it-isnt-twice-as-fast-its-three-times-as-fast.html
Again, it's not a fair comparison because Apple has no GPU option for 13" MacBook Pro. Isn't nice that the Surface Book let's you choose to have a GPU? Apple should do the same, don't you think?
5) MacBook trackpads are the best in the market. While the keyboards in the MacBook and the iPad Pro are awful. Many of my customers have Thinkpads, and you'll notice the difference between a good and a bad keyboard. MacBook and iPad Pro are bad, while the Surface Pro is very good considering it's thinness.
5a) I suppose you are talking about mobile devices, and yes Apple is ahead and MS far behind.
You'll see that the Surface Book was up to 3x times faster than a Macbook Pro in a specific test, while was considerably faster in GPU dependant applications, while bit slower in others. That shows the benefit of a GPU, something Apple don't have in their 13" models (I think I already mention this many times). And the comparison was made with the Macbook Pro with Retina Display, not the low end model.
You can twist benchmarks to your benefit in many ways. MS did it with the Surface Book vs Macbook Pro 13", and they are right to a some degree when you consider the GPU.
1) your argument is FUD
2) I wouldn't know, I don't use Spotify or Apple Music and I wasn't interested in Microsoft's music subscription service. If you are paying for the subscription, you are paying for those 'free tracks. Ever consider that?
3) they compared an entry level MacBook Pro to a non-entry level surface book so that they could claim that the surface book is twice X as fast as a MacBook Pro in their marketing based on one benchmark test. They aren't slick and got busted on this. Also can you shut up about that 'thief prices' bs? It was a TYPO. i was saying that microsocft should cut THEIR prices.
4) again, PC world was comparing an entry level MacBook Pro to a non entry level surface book that costs about twice as much. What part of that don't you understand?
5) the surface pro is bad in terms reliability and practicality.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/microsoft-says-sorry-surface-pro-4-surface-book-issues/
5a) then why are you wasting our time defending Microsoft's marketing blowing up in their faces reputedly? Microsoft needs to find it's chill and stop embarrassing themselves like this. They need to stop publicly throwing tons of money at their problems and instead make products that are actually good instead of what they've been doing.
Now if we compare the non GPU SB to a MBP 13" with retina display, there is a chance it will be faster in some tasks, like the article mentions. What it's clear is that the SB gives the option of a GPU that can be useful for many professionals, while Apple decided to not include a GPU on any MBP 13". Too bad..
2) Spotify and Apple Music customers pay for their subscription and there no free songs to keep. Zune has something ahead of today options, including Spotify and Apple.
3) Read the PC World article I posted, and you'll see there are task where the SB is 3x faster than the rMBP. I miss the typo. Still, the "cut their prices" line easily applies to the Macbook too.
4) The price for the entry level rMBP with 256GB SSD is $1500 ($1300 for the 128GB SSD), while the Surface Book with GPU and 256GB is $1899. That's close to 25% and not two times as you mention.
5) I have read about it and that's one of the reason I held my purchase. Looking forward to it when they fix them.
5A) I don't need defend MS, or any other company. And have no problem criticizing bad products and praising good ones, and Apple and MS have both. Right now, their mobile phone is at their worst, and Windows 10 have it's issues. But Surface Book and Surface Pro are great devices. Same same can be said from their whole cloud business. They are doing products that are good. Now, consider Apple, which has the best phone and tablet in the market, and they release products like,
Macbook: Awful keyboard, poor performance, no expansion and starts in $1300
Apple Watch and Apple Music: Heavily criticized for confusing UI.
iPad Pro: Terrible keyboard, and awful ergonomics when using in vertical mode (read this article for more details, http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10)
And I may add the MacPro, iWorks, Photos as a replacement for Aperture, iTunes and the long years of the Macbook Air with it's poor screen and long time without a major upgrade. How is that better than MS embarrassments?
My my point is that Microsoft was FIBBING FIBBING FIBBING when they made their original claim. They have TWO non GPU models that they skipped over to compare to a less expensive MacBook Pro. Then, when compared to a MacBook that has a GPU you call foul.
1) no, it is my observation.
2) why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Sounds like Apple and Spotify made a shrewd business decision unlike Microsoft which believes in holding a fire sale to try and buy customers.
3) the only task that was 3x faster on the SB was running tomb raider and that's because it had a dedicated GPU while the significantly cheaper MacBook Pro does not. It was also faster f\running premiere pro because (gasp) the surface book had a dGPU while the significantly less expensive MacBook Pro did not.
4) the entry level surface book has 128gb of storage. It costs $1500. The entry level MacBook retina has 128gb of storage and costs $200 less. The surface book that was used in the Microsoft test costs AT LEAST $1900 if not more. the point is that Microsoft completely and PURPOSEFULLY skipped over the non dGPU versions of the surface pro to specifically bench it against a MacBook Pro that they know doesn't have a dGPU to make a bogus claim that the surface book is faster than the MacBook Pro. Even your article does this when they go out of their way to test a dGPU surface book against a non dGPU MacBook Pro, going as far as to borrow the dGPU keyboard from an i7 Surface book!
5) if you wait for Microsoft to not be poor quality then you'll never buy Microsoft products.
5a) the surface pro and surface book are not great products. Both are rife with bugs and design flaws as well as a sub-par digital pen. The surface book itself only has a three hour battery life when in tablet mode and the base can't be used to charge the tablet section.
-You complain about the macbook's and iPad's keyboard,Chet I've used both and they feel great.
-You complain about the Apple Watch, but Apple has moved more Apple watches in one year than Microsoft has moved surface devices in the totality of the product line.
-You mention the iWork, but there's NOTHING wrong with iWork. Just learn the interface and it's great. I prefer it over MS Office with Microsoft's typically poor rendering engine. I can actually make print ready layouts in pages that won't come out all dithered with streaks or look like they were obviously made in word using some sort of template or something.
-There's really nothing wrong with the Mac Pro. Workstations have a long update cycle.
-I don't have any problems with iTunes.
how is that better than Microsoft embarrassments? Ok.
let's see.
-Microsoft remains #3 in a 3 system console market after losing billions for years on the Xbox 360
-anyone remember all their vaporware? I sure do. Remember their original surface, which was a table? How about their dual screen tablet that never materialized? Or the origami. Anyone remember that?
-anyone remember the zune? Zune hd?
-how about Windows phone? Remember that? How about the Kin? I remember Microsoft fanboys singing the praises of that while claiming it will kill the iPhone.
-when was the last time anyone used Bing? Remember that?
-How about the surface RT?
-Remember Vista? Remember Windows 8? Remember Windows ME?
-Speaking of Windows, how do you like Windows phoning home with hashes of the images you look at?
-how about the numerous times Microsoft was caught red-handed using shills and astroturfing?
http://techrights.org/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2365060/microsoft-caught-astroturfing-bloggers-again-to-promote-internet-explorer.html
-how about that time Steve ballmer laughed at the iPhone just to be proven do very very wrong less than a year later?
-Clippy... Need I say more?
-how about 2010 CES when Microsoft and it's partners slapped together some terrible slate tablets and tried to sell people on Windows slate tablets right before the iPad came out a month later and blew them clean away?
Now you want to compare the 13.5" Surface Book to the 15.4" rMBP, (which is heavier and larger, GPU), because the price difference between devices (rMBP 13" less expensive, rMBP 15"similar pricing). Your criteria means that I should compare the high end Macbook w 12" screen and Core M processor to the Surface Book i5 w/o GPU since both have similar pricing ($1599 / $1699). What do you think of this comparison? I can easily say that the Surface Book is faster than the Macbook. Still, they are two completely different devices, even though pricing is similar. Pricing is one criteria among others that defines how a devices is categorised, including dimensions, weight and the market it was designed for (home, business, CAD/CAM, etc). For me it means that the Surface Book is very similar to the rMBP 13" (I use the term "similar" because there is no Apple device that compares to the Surface Book 1-to-1), and you'll see many articles doing the same comparison. But you can have your own criteria to compare devices that don't have to be same as mine.
2) From a business POV, Spotify and Apple decision was better for them, while MS offer was better for customers. Too bad the best option for the customer didn't win, don't you think?
3) I have been saying this all the time.
4) The $200 price difference between the two entry options is easy to undestand, since the Surface Book has a 3000x2000 detachable touch screen and includes the stylus. You can only assume what model MS use for their benchmark and comparison, and since neither do I, I'll not comment on that since I don't know all details. That's the reason I refer to the PC World article which confirm 3x in TR and 40% in Adobe Premiere. So it looks like MS didn't lie at all, if you consider they may have use GPU optimized applications. BTW, don't you think it's nice that you can switch the GPU base between the i5 and i7 display?
5) Yes, they have their issues with Surface Book and SP4. BTW, you consider Apple quality poor when they released iOS 7, iOS 8, OS X 10.7 - 10.9 with the long list of bugs? I remember when some articles compare OS X 10.7 to Windows Vista. That's awful, don't you think? Even more recent articles mention how Apple quality has been downhill.
http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/3/10900612/walt-mossberg-apple-iphone-ios-mac-osx-app-problems
I suppose you don't have MS, neither Apple product because of their poor quality, right?
5a) Yes, both SB and SP4 are great devices, even their recent missteps. I have read that the Pencil is better than the Pen, but I haven't read that it is sub-par. And now that you mention sub-par accessories, do you want to talk about the iPad Pro keyboard? And yes, too bad the SB screen has a low battery life and cannot be charged from the station. I hope these two issues are solved with v2.0
- Both of them are awful, and from what I have read in many article is that you have get use to it. Since when do I have get use to a good keyboard? I didn't have to get use to Macbooks trackpads becase they are good. The same is for keyboards, don't you think.
- Quantity =/= Quality
- Yes, there is a lot wrong with iWork, specially in business / enterprise environments. Did you notice that even Apple didn't show iWorks in the iPad Pro keynote?
- Yes, there is a lot wrong with it. Starting with poor expansion and just a single CPU. Compare that to a HP Z-workstation and you'll see what's wrong.
- So do you suppose because you don't have problems with iTunes, then other people have the same experience.
- If you are talking about current gen, XOne is #2, and their sales are x2 over previous generations. BTW, what it has to do with the quality of the console and games?
- The original Surface is now the Surface Hub, and it's going to be released in Q1. Is that vaporware to you? And the Courier, that was sad to see it goes. I hope to see it's features implemented in a Surface app. That would be nice.
- From what I have read, they were great devices. Too bad they went away.
- Isn't Apple using Bing for Siri results?
- Surface RT as a devices is dead, as a concept, still many of it's ideas in the SP4.
- Those three releases of Windows were not MS highlights. But you know that OS X 10.7 was considered as bad or worst that Vista? http://www.zdnet.com/article/os-x-10-7-lion-is-more-painful-than-vista/ And I never thought it was possible to be worst than Vista, and some way Apple made it happen.
- Too bad when it happen. Hope it won't happen again.
- That's the reason MS lost the mobile phone market and Ballmer is no more.
- Great idea, bad implementation. Now it evolved in Office 2016 with Tell Me.
- Another reason Ballmer is no more. I have noticed tables are turning. Do you remember the Apple June event, with Apple Music? That was one of the most boring events I have seen. And compare that to the SP4 / Surface Book event, that was praised in many articles. I hope Apple recover from that event while MS keep doing what they did in their last one.
2) buying a zune and getting wrapped up with Microsoft was not the best option for the consumer.
3) then hush.
4) it doesn't matter. The surface book costs more and doesn't perform as well.
5) the issues with the surface pro and surface book dwarf any that Apple had with their products. If Apple products released with that laundry list of issues, the yelling over it would have been deafening and endless. Also, for the record, the verge is a well known anti-apple publication.
5a) define great. The n-trig based surface pen is worse than a Wacom and the Apple pencil. I used the Smart keyboard and it worked well for me. There's really not much to complain about from my experience.
-Microsoft doesn't have quantity OR quality here. That's the issue.
-Well Apple didn't talk about i#ork because there's really nothing new to say. What are they going to say? It's bigger? Still at the end of the day, iWork is great.
-those are just your opinions of the Mac Pro bro. As a computer it is just fine and the smaller size of it has its uses.
-Xbox one sales = 10 million / Wii U sales = 12.6 million / PlayStation 4 = 36 million
- mine uses google. You know, because that's my preferred search engine in safari and Siri goes off of your preferred search engine.
-oh, I'm sure that there's no shortage of articles badmouthing Apple. Especially on zdnet.
-well it's still happening but ok.
-Microsoft is still doing ballmer did then.
-Clippy will always be a bad idea
-keep in mind that the iPad pro came out and blew the entire surface line away on its debut quarter.
Look, Microsoft made a broken comparison, I suggested ways to fix it.
1) compare the entry level MacBook Pro to an entry level surface book
2) compare the GPU surface book to the MacBook Pro that has a GPU.
comparing the entry level MacBook Pro to a mid-tier surface book is nothing but smoke and mirrors and Microsoft set themselves up to get called on their BS. There's no way around it. They said that the surface book was faster than MacBook Pro. Well they were proven wrong. Learn to live with it.
Based in the PC World article,
1) rMBP has a slight advantage over the Surface Book.
2) 28W Quad core CPU + GPU has big advantage over the Surface Book 15W Dual Core + GPU.
I'll add a third one,
3) rMBP 13" vs Surface Book (similar as MS comparison from keynote), gives an advantage to rMBP in CPU intensive tasks while Surface Book has a massive advantage in GPU dependant applications. Considering PC World you can say to a some degree that MS didn't lie, right?
2) The 10 DRM free songs per month was great for consumers. Those people still can hear those songs in their favorite devices today. Beautiful, isn't? Again, how many songs do I get free with Spotify or Apple Music? How many songs do I keep if I cancel the subscription?
3) If you said so...
4) Yes, it cost more and PC World say it performs very well specially with GPU.
5) Do you have any link with specific numbers about SB / SP4 problems vs Apple devices? I haven't seen any. BTW, Apple is offering free repairs for the 2013 Macbook Pro with problems like problems like "distorted or non-existent graphics, as well as freezing, reboots, sudden shutdowns, or even a system failing to start".
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/02/06/apple-offers-free-repairs-for-2013-mac-pros-with-defective-video-cards
So we have a device that starts a $3000, with major problems and after 3yrs Apple decide to fix it. Is that the quality you are talking about? You know what, I prefer the MS way of being open about the problem while working the fix than keep customer for 3yrs with problems without any kind of information. Interesting that this is not the first time. Remember when it happen with the Macbook Pro?
http://www.macrumors.com/2015/02/19/2011-macbook-pro-repair-program-apple/
Is this the company you defend so much? I love and have Apple devices, but I have no problem pointing this kind of issues (same as for MS with Surface). And you? Like I said before, both companies have things to praise and other to criticize. Don't you agree?
5a) Pencil being better doesn't makes Pen a bad accessory. Completely different from the Smart Keyboard with it's, shallow keys, single angle position, no backlight and no trackpad,which makes using the iPad Pro awkward when it's used in vertical. (At least that was what SJ said based considering studies Apple made years ago,
- That depends. For example, iPhone is miles ahead of Windows Phone in quality and quantity. The same can be said of Office 2016 / 365 vs iWorks or Windows Server vs OS X Server. I can write a longer list, but I think you got my point.
- It's nice to hear that iWorks works for you. But MS Office still the best, and there is nothing close to it.
- I suppose there is people what are fine with a Mac Pro. But what about high end users how need large quantity of RAM, more expansion and multiples CPU's? They have to look elsewhere, like HP, for high end workstations.
- No, Xbox One sales are close to 18m.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-sales-reach-at-least-18-million-units-rep/1100-6433643/
- I prefer Google search engine too. You just ask about Bing and I just pointed how Apple went with it as a default engine for Siri.
- Ok, you don't like ZD Net, so here are other articles,
http://lowendmac.com/2013/mac-osx-10-7-lion-the-vista-of-the-mac-world/
http://osxdaily.com/2014/02/18/still-running-old-os-x-upgrade-to-mavericks/
- I haven't seen any recent reports. Can you post links?
- No, today MS is very different from the Ballmer MS. Same as today's Apple is different from past Apple, and not necessary for the better.
- Don't worry, Clippy is no more, now is Tell Me. Same as iTunes Ping was a bad idea, and it's no more. It happens to every company.
- Maybe, maybe not. Like I posted before, those were IDC estimates. I won't comment on sales since Apple neither MS release any numbers. I don't get why Apple didn't release specific numbers since the iPad Pro sold so well. Strange, isn't? What I can say is that iPad Pro didn't stop iPad sales from going down again.
Using PCword as backup for a Microsoft defense, lol