EU antitrust chief: 'don't hold your breath' for results of Apple-Ireland tax audit

Posted:
in AAPL Investors
The European Commission is unlikely to rule on the legality of Apple's tax arrangement with the Irish government any time in the near future, the EU's lead antitrust watchdog said on Monday.


Source: European Commission


"Don't hold your breath," European Commissioner for Competition Margrethe Vestager said when asked about the status of the investigation, according to Bloomberg. "I'm just warning you."

The European Commission has been looking Apple's Irish tax arrangements for more than a year, first releasing a preliminary finding in late 2014. The Commission is investigating whether the deal, first struck by Apple in 1991 and refreshed in 2007, amounts to illegal state aid.

Apple is one of a number of companies -- mostly U.S. firms -- to have been swept up in a clampdown on such tax agreements around Europe. If found to be in violation of EU law, Apple may be forced to pay as much as $8 billion in back taxes.

The final ruling on Apple's case has already been delayed multiple times, possibly indicating the complexity of auditing a company Apple's size.

Vestager refused to give a new deadline, saying instead that the commission would "wait for the job being done thoroughly and with the quality that we want it to be done with."

"That is what decides the timeline," she added.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    Vestager refused to give a new deadline, saying instead that the commission would "wait for the job being done thoroughly and with the quality that we want it to be done with."

    "That is what decides the timeline," she added.

    Elections may also be driving the timeline. By holding off a decision, some politicians will not feel pre-election heat for being pro/anti Apple on this matter. After being elected into office, the politicians can openly express their leanings without too much fear of being voted out of office for a few years. 
    singularitylymf
  • Reply 2 of 15
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    What is their to audit? It's now common knowledge that Apple had a low tax rate as companies have developed time and time again throughout history.  It's either "State Aid" as they are trying to spin it or it is not. Are their new "Laws" they are trying to sell to the public legitimate or are they not? Yet the EU can't even answer that. It's just another sign that this whole circus is a bunch of bs. 
    edited March 2016 jbdragon
  • Reply 3 of 15
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    latifbp said:
    What is their to audit? It's now common knowledge that Apple had a low tax rate as companies have developed time and time again throughout history.  It's either "State Aid" as they are trying to spin it or it is not. Are their new "Laws" they are trying to sell to the public legitimate or are they not? Yet the EU can't even answer that. It's just another sign that this whole circus is a bunch of bs. 
    Not new laws. They have been in place since 1958 and updated in 1992.
    Considering the complexity of the whole EU tax rules, cross country etc I have seen liability to Apple from a few hundred million to 9 billion being reported.

  • Reply 4 of 15
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Vestager refused to give a new deadline, saying instead that the commission would "wait for the job being done thoroughly and with the quality that we want it to be done with."

    "That is what decides the timeline," she added.

    Elections may also be driving the timeline. By holding off a decision, some politicians will not feel pre-election heat for being pro/anti Apple on this matter. After being elected into office, the politicians can openly express their leanings without too much fear of being voted out of office for a few years. 
    Which elections and what is the timeline?

    There seems to be a number of people who are projecting, based on their perception of  their own national political system and are assuming it has relevance to the way the EU and the Commission operate.
    bobjohnsonsingularity
  • Reply 5 of 15
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    latifbp said:
    What is their to audit? It's now common knowledge that Apple had a low tax rate as companies have developed time and time again throughout history.  It's either "State Aid" as they are trying to spin it or it is not. Are their new "Laws" they are trying to sell to the public legitimate or are they not? Yet the EU can't even answer that. It's just another sign that this whole circus is a bunch of bs. 
    Not new laws. They have been in place since 1958 and updated in 1992.
    Considering the complexity of the whole EU tax rules, cross country etc I have seen liability to Apple from a few hundred million to 9 billion being reported.

    Then why does it take them 10 years to enforce them and over a year to figure out what we have so clearly been discussing here for months? I call bs, and anticipate your old, singular, worn out but repetitively recycled argument.
    jbdragon
  • Reply 6 of 15
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    latifbp said:
    Not new laws. They have been in place since 1958 and updated in 1992.
    Considering the complexity of the whole EU tax rules, cross country etc I have seen liability to Apple from a few hundred million to 9 billion being reported.

    Then why does it take them 10 years to enforce them and over a year to figure out what we have so clearly been discussing here for months? I call bs, and anticipate your old, singular, worn out but repetitively recycled argument.
    Ok you win. It's all a conspiracy to defraud all those innocent angelic companies who have done nothing and should be praised to the sky.
  • Reply 7 of 15
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    latifbp said:
    Then why does it take them 10 years to enforce them and over a year to figure out what we have so clearly been discussing here for months? I call bs, and anticipate your old, singular, worn out but repetitively recycled argument.
    Ok you win. It's all a conspiracy to defraud all those innocent angelic companies who have done nothing and should be praised to the sky.
    No real, substantive answer from you as usual. And, please note, it is the governments that have done wrong by in your view supplying "illegal state aid" to the companies, not the companies who believed they worked out a deal in good faith. Every article is very clear that the companies are not in the wrong, even the EU dopes state that fact, yet you still are implying the companies did wrong. You're either totally out to lunch or being intentionally dense.
    edited March 2016 jbdragon
  • Reply 8 of 15
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    latifbp said:
    Ok you win. It's all a conspiracy to defraud all those innocent angelic companies who have done nothing and should be praised to the sky.
    No real, substantive answer from you as usual. And, please note, it is the governments that have done wrong by in your view supplying "illegal state aid" to the companies, not the companies who believed they worked out a deal in good faith. Every article is very clear that the companies are not in the wrong, even the EU dopes state that fact, yet you still are implying the companies did wrong. You're either totally out to lunch or being intentionally dense.
    I don't imply the companies have done wrong all I have said if any company has been found to have received illegal state aid then the country that has offered it has to reclaim the value of that state aid back.

    thus in this case if Apple has received illegal state valued at 9 billion then they would have to repay that or nothing if that what it is valued at.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 9 of 15
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    latifbp said:
    No real, substantive answer from you as usual. And, please note, it is the governments that have done wrong by in your view supplying "illegal state aid" to the companies, not the companies who believed they worked out a deal in good faith. Every article is very clear that the companies are not in the wrong, even the EU dopes state that fact, yet you still are implying the companies did wrong. You're either totally out to lunch or being intentionally dense.
    I don't imply the companies have done wrong all I have said if any company has been found to have received illegal state aid then the country that has offered it has to reclaim the value of that state aid back.

    thus in this case if Apple has received illegal state valued at 9 billion then they would have to repay that or nothing if that what it is valued at.
    innocent angelic companies who have done nothing and should be praised to the sky."- is this some sort or Eurocentric form of humor or something? Your statement now makes more sense
  • Reply 10 of 15
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,056member
    EU tax law is an epic failure. Why don't they just rewrite it and make it relevant. Apple took advantage of what were written in EU tax codes. If now EU just figured it out, too bad...it's EU problem. 
    Now, let say all the US companies pull out of EU and move to Asia...lol. EU would be fcked. I know the countries in South East Asia are more than willing to have zero tax for these companies to move to their countries for at least 10 years. 
    jbdragon
  • Reply 11 of 15
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,289member
    fallenjt said:
    EU tax law is an epic failure. Why don't they just rewrite it and make it relevant. Apple took advantage of what were written in EU tax codes. If now EU just figured it out, too bad...it's EU problem. 
    Now, let say all the US companies pull out of EU and move to Asia...lol. EU would be fcked. I know the countries in South East Asia are more than willing to have zero tax for these companies to move to their countries for at least 10 years. 
    Singapore is a good choice. I wouldn't say zero tax, but it's gonna be competitive with what Euro could offer. Besides, the country has better infrastructure, security and financial program.
  • Reply 12 of 15
    They must tread carefully, as the $8B windfall may pale in comparison with the political cost of the job losses when Apple moves its business units back to the US.
    Singapore? I'm sure Tim Cook would be delighted to bring business to this hateful, bigoted, fascist, homophobic dump.
  • Reply 13 of 15
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    fallenjt said:
    EU tax law is an epic failure. Why don't they just rewrite it and make it relevant. Apple took advantage of what were written in EU tax codes. If now EU just figured it out, too bad...it's EU problem. 
    Now, let say all the US companies pull out of EU and move to Asia...lol. EU would be fcked. I know the countries in South East Asia are more than willing to have zero tax for these companies to move to their countries for at least 10 years. 
    What EU tax law?

    Guess why US companies are in the EU and don't want to leave?
  • Reply 14 of 15
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    They must tread carefully, as the $8B windfall may pale in comparison with the political cost of the job losses when Apple moves its business units back to the US.
    Singapore? I'm sure Tim Cook would be delighted to bring business to this hateful, bigoted, fascist, homophobic dump.
    Apple is not going to be following your suggestion and abandon a market in excess of 500 M people, or get out of the EU and start paying import duties on all their products which would no longer be ludicrously classed as being of EU origin. The worst case scenario for Apple is that it will end up having to pay Irish corporate tax of 12% instead of the less than 2% they have been getting away with.  Why do you think it would be financially advantageous for Apple to pull out the EU and move to the US where instead of 12% tax, it will be paying 30%?  I'm sure Apple's accountants have their pens eagerly poised to take notes.


  • Reply 15 of 15
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    kevin kee said:
    fallenjt said:
    EU tax law is an epic failure. Why don't they just rewrite it and make it relevant. Apple took advantage of what were written in EU tax codes. If now EU just figured it out, too bad...it's EU problem. 
    Now, let say all the US companies pull out of EU and move to Asia...lol. EU would be fcked. I know the countries in South East Asia are more than willing to have zero tax for these companies to move to their countries for at least 10 years. 
    Singapore is a good choice. I wouldn't say zero tax, but it's gonna be competitive with what Euro could offer. Besides, the country has better infrastructure, security and financial program.

    Ireland is Apples EU tax base. Do you really think Apple could make Singapore it's EU tax base, and have all other aspects remain the same?  You're not seeing any obvious issue with that?
    edited March 2016 singularity
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