Apple, other tech companies decry North Carolina anti-LGBT law

12346

Comments

  • Reply 101 of 131
    mytdave said:
    It's not an "anti-LGBT" law, it's a pro-liberty and pro-religious liberty law. 
    Define "liberty." What does that word mean to you? Does it include the freedom to use whatever bathroom you choose?

    As for the decision being pro-religion, in my view that's a negative outcome (if that's even really what it is). Religion is routinely used as justification for oppression, creating divisions among people instead of uniting them, and even murder. Just ask an ISIS leader. Should we allow slavery and stoning of blasphemers? The Bible says we should, right? Is that a society you want to live in, or would you prefer to impose certain limits on "religious freedom?"
  • Reply 102 of 131
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    Some people are just a lot more uptight than others. Personally, I don't see any problem sharing bathrooms.

    When I was in college, our building, which was engineering and computer science, had a men's room on the second floor and a women's room on the ground floor. The classrooms were mostly on the second floor. Sometimes the women would go down stairs only to find a queue, so we discussed allowing them to use the men's room upstairs since it was a lot more convenient and rarely a queue. Worked out fine and nobody seemed to mind.

    If an organization or government really wanted to accommodate transgenders, it seems the only answer is create some extra gender neutral bathrooms like they often have in international airports which are mostly intended for families with children/infants so they can change diapers, etc. Children should never be allowed to use public bathrooms without adult supervision anyway. Nobody ever complains if a dad takes his female child into the men's room or vise versa. Besides, if the bathroom is labeled unisex, when people use it, they should still expect adequate privacy since there would only be stalls.
    edited March 2016 designr
  • Reply 103 of 131
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    tallest skil said:

    It’s an Apple website. This isn’t even tangentially related to Apple.
    Except that Apple itself chose to publicly comment on the topic.
    singularity
  • Reply 104 of 131
    The first male that pulls his rod out in the ladies restroom, in front of my 8 year old daughter is going to take a trip to the hospital.  I don't care if it is Timothy Cook.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 105 of 131
    dipdog3 said:
    Rename bathrooms to Penis & Non-Penis. Whatever you got, that's where you go. Problem solved!
    That is what the bill does.  It says you must go the the potty based on gender indicated on your birth certificate.  Too much common sense for liberals.  
  • Reply 106 of 131
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    volcan said:
    Except that Apple itself chose to publicly comment on the topic.
    You’re right, that was too far; you know what I mean, though, right? For example, the bot shouldn’t post entirely non-Apple articles, but any that involve politics should go to PO by default.
  • Reply 107 of 131
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    gloriainexcel said:

     It says you must go the the potty based on gender indicated on your birth certificate.
    In terms of what sex a person is, I think perhaps it should be the sex indicated on their passport or driver's license. You can legally change that, such as the case of Katelin Jenner. You cannot change your birth certificate. 
  • Reply 108 of 131
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    designr said:
    Well, the overlap between politics and social issues and Apple is increasing quite a lot. At some point it may be that almost any article Apple related is political and vice versa.
    Ooh! and then we get to have the fun discussion about the level of government control helmed by corporations and corporate entities in our society.

    Obviously you overturn corporate personhood, but I’ll have to do some more reading to come to a decision about how to legally classify corporations otherwise...
  • Reply 109 of 131
    stourquestourque Posts: 364member
    sleakaj said:
    [fallacies and lies]
    Want to have an actual fucking argument, or do you just get off on your false superiority complex?
    Now that's funny - you accusing someone else of having a superiority complex.
    singularity
  • Reply 110 of 131
    mytdavemytdave Posts: 447member
    designr said:
    volcan said:
    ... Nobody ever complains if a dad takes his female child into the men's room or vise versa... 
    Now there you go using sense and reason. People working together to arrive at suitable solution rather than a specific solution being mandated from on high.
    Nobody complains about an adult taking their young child into the other gender's restroom, because it's not sexual.  Having a pervert/mentally ill person wander into the wrong restroom is.  The scenarios are completely different and you know it.

    Lorin: Liberty is defined quite well in the Constitution, particularly Amendments 1, 2 & 3.  No where does it include the "freedom" to use whatever bathroom you choose.  Liberty doesn't mean you can do whatever the hell you want to do.  Liberty also protects others from being subjected to perversion.
    tallest skilewtheckman
  • Reply 111 of 131
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    tallest skil said:

    For example, the bot shouldn’t post entirely non-Apple articles, but any that involve politics should go to PO by default.
    The articles are posted wherever the author wants them posted. There is no bot making that decision. Sometimes the author probably wants a high comment count on a controversial topic and therefore posts it on the front page. Other times an article might start out without any political overtones whatsoever, but some radically political members might take the topic off on a tangent. It is up to the mods to move the thread at their sole discretion.
  • Reply 112 of 131
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    mytdave said:

    Liberty is defined quite well in the Constitution, particularly Amendments 1, 2 & 3.  No where does it include the "freedom" to use whatever bathroom you choose.  
    Nor does The Constitution provide any language to even designate separate bathrooms, maybe because there were no bathrooms, only outhouses and they were generally shared by both sexes.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 113 of 131
    mytdavemytdave Posts: 447member
    volcan said:
    mytdave said:

    Liberty is defined quite well in the Constitution, particularly Amendments 1, 2 & 3.  No where does it include the "freedom" to use whatever bathroom you choose.  
    Nor does The Constitution provide any language to even designate separate bathrooms, maybe because there were no bathrooms, only outhouses and they were generally shared by both sexes.
    That is true.  Let's all revert back to single use outhouses!  (Like port-a-potties.)  Problem solved!
  • Reply 114 of 131
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    volcan said:
    The articles are posted wherever the author wants them posted. There is no bot making that decision.
    Has the bot ever posted outside of General Discussion? Seems to me like it’s automated.
  • Reply 115 of 131
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    designr said:

    No particular policy should be mandated by government. If you do not like the policies of that company or organization, go elsewhere.
    The government is also an organization and they should establish policies regarding the use public restrooms where applicable, however, I agree that they should not dictate policy for public/private corporation owned bathrooms. They do have jurisdiction over public buildings such as government offices or state universities. They can also set policy for any organization that receives public funding even if it is privately owned.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 116 of 131
    mactacmactac Posts: 316member
    You were born with certain plumbing. Just because your brain doesn't recognize it, doesn't mean its not there. No way in hell am I going to let a male with a penis go into the ladies restroom when my wife is in there.
    tallest skil
  • Reply 117 of 131
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    volcan said:
    The articles are posted wherever the author wants them posted. There is no bot making that decision.
    Has the bot ever posted outside of General Discussion? Seems to me like it’s automated.
    Sure, all the time. For example they post to /Home/iPhone/ or any of the subcategories nested within. The posting process is automated to the extent that the Appleinsider member is probably using something similar to the old Kasper Automated Slave which moves the article contents from www.appleinsider.com to forums.appleinsider.com but it appears to me to be under the complete control of a human.
    edited March 2016 tallest skil
  • Reply 118 of 131
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    mactac said:
    No way in hell am I going to let a male with a penis go into the ladies restroom when my wife is in there.
    You have no idea that isn't already happening. Would you rather have the penis police outside the women's room frisking up your wife and daughter to make sure they weren't cross dressers?
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 119 of 131
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    volcan said:
    Would you rather have the penis police outside the women's room frisking up your wife and daughter to make sure they weren't cross dressers?
    I’d rather the mentally ill get actual help rather than enabling. We don’t give pedophiles children and we don’t give sadists people to cut on.
  • Reply 120 of 131
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,310moderator
    The truth is that trannies are mentally ill and have no special “rights” except the right to the psychological counseling they need to get over their delusions.
    There are different stages and kinds of transexuals. The following would be closer to who you are talking about:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/12/30/comedian-who-came-out-as-transgender-reverts-back-to-a-man/



    They are people at an early stage of transitioning with mostly cross-dressing and could easily go back again as that person did.

    There are fully transitioned post-op transexuals like the following model:






    Full body images and videos at the following links:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3510131/Transgender-model-Andreja-Peji-flaunts-slender-figure-nude-toned-bra-panties.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3453804/Transgender-model-Andreja-Pejic-cover-Marie-Claire-Spain.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3383913/Andreja-Pejic-displays-model-physique-red-triangle-bikini-ushers-New-Year-Miami-Beach.html

    Other examples here:

    http://transsexualdateonline.com/beautiful-transsexuals-charming-sexy-west-world/



    There's a couple here who both switched gender:

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/799313.shtml



    There's a wide mixture here:

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/storywall/transgender-today

    I don't think anyone would say that a man could put on a dress, call themselves transexual like the first person above and be allowed to use facilities of the opposite gender so whatever laws are made need to have limits but for people who have fully transitioned, they can't be expected to go back again and have surgery reversed. While you could argue that nobody should be allowed to transition to begin with, sometimes people look and behave more like the other sex than would be typical for how they are born, some have the gender changed at a very young age, some hermaphrodites will be assigned a gender and it may have been wrong.

    There are cases where the outcome doesn't look natural:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-leagues-first-transgender-woman-7115310



    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/storywall/transgender-today/stories/melissa-chapman



    http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2012/08/02/vancouverite-makes-transition-from-john-to-kelly.html



    http://kotaku.com/5909038/a-transgender-transition-inside-ea-sports-will-everyone-stare-at-me





    http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Hires+Veteran+Hacker+Who+Delayed+Windows+Vista/article29366.htm



    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2111259/The-man-given-birth-times-With-broad-smiles-Beaties-look-like-normal-happy-family-Nothing-truth-.html



    People being beside them in intimate settings could easily feel threatened by them. To suggest they get mental help implies they haven't had this already. They do have to go through psychological evaluation and have to live like the gender they want for years before a doctor will agree to perform any surgery and hormone therapy.

    There are all sorts of complications that arise with this, how to deal with gender-based competitions, how to deal with legal status, how to handle the transition. The easy answer to arrive at is that they just get forced into living the way were born but they have gone through that process for years and they still wanted to change. Maybe the result will have to be that there are special facilities for some of them or for some periods of transition. The early stages of transition would be awkward no matter which facilities they use.

    For some that have fully transitioned successfully, usually at a younger age, people would find it very hard to tell so they'd never know anything was different and they'll continue to use the facilities of the gender they have transitioned to. For the ones that stand out or are starting transitioning, it could be distressing for people around them and there's going to have to be laws that cover these scenarios. A singular set of guidelines for all the above people would never work. It can't be that only the attractive ones get a free pass either.

    The law will not be able to force the issue entirely because other people will just stop using facilities where they feel uncomfortable and businesses will respond to that.
    stourque
Sign In or Register to comment.