Apple, other tech companies decry North Carolina anti-LGBT law

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  • Reply 121 of 148
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    gloriainexcel said:

     It says you must go the the potty based on gender indicated on your birth certificate.
    In terms of what sex a person is, I think perhaps it should be the sex indicated on their passport or driver's license. You can legally change that, such as the case of Katelin Jenner. You cannot change your birth certificate. 
  • Reply 122 of 148
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    designr said:
    Well, the overlap between politics and social issues and Apple is increasing quite a lot. At some point it may be that almost any article Apple related is political and vice versa.
    Ooh! and then we get to have the fun discussion about the level of government control helmed by corporations and corporate entities in our society.

    Obviously you overturn corporate personhood, but I’ll have to do some more reading to come to a decision about how to legally classify corporations otherwise...
  • Reply 123 of 148
    stourquestourque Posts: 360member
    sleakaj said:
    [fallacies and lies]
    Want to have an actual fucking argument, or do you just get off on your false superiority complex?
    Now that's funny - you accusing someone else of having a superiority complex.
    singularity
  • Reply 124 of 148
    mytdavemytdave Posts: 447member
    designr said:
    volcan said:
    ... Nobody ever complains if a dad takes his female child into the men's room or vise versa... 
    Now there you go using sense and reason. People working together to arrive at suitable solution rather than a specific solution being mandated from on high.
    Nobody complains about an adult taking their young child into the other gender's restroom, because it's not sexual.  Having a pervert/mentally ill person wander into the wrong restroom is.  The scenarios are completely different and you know it.

    Lorin: Liberty is defined quite well in the Constitution, particularly Amendments 1, 2 & 3.  No where does it include the "freedom" to use whatever bathroom you choose.  Liberty doesn't mean you can do whatever the hell you want to do.  Liberty also protects others from being subjected to perversion.
    tallest skilewtheckman
  • Reply 125 of 148
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    tallest skil said:

    For example, the bot shouldn’t post entirely non-Apple articles, but any that involve politics should go to PO by default.
    The articles are posted wherever the author wants them posted. There is no bot making that decision. Sometimes the author probably wants a high comment count on a controversial topic and therefore posts it on the front page. Other times an article might start out without any political overtones whatsoever, but some radically political members might take the topic off on a tangent. It is up to the mods to move the thread at their sole discretion.
  • Reply 126 of 148
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    mytdave said:

    Liberty is defined quite well in the Constitution, particularly Amendments 1, 2 & 3.  No where does it include the "freedom" to use whatever bathroom you choose.  
    Nor does The Constitution provide any language to even designate separate bathrooms, maybe because there were no bathrooms, only outhouses and they were generally shared by both sexes.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 127 of 148
    mytdavemytdave Posts: 447member
    volcan said:
    mytdave said:

    Liberty is defined quite well in the Constitution, particularly Amendments 1, 2 & 3.  No where does it include the "freedom" to use whatever bathroom you choose.  
    Nor does The Constitution provide any language to even designate separate bathrooms, maybe because there were no bathrooms, only outhouses and they were generally shared by both sexes.
    That is true.  Let's all revert back to single use outhouses!  (Like port-a-potties.)  Problem solved!
  • Reply 128 of 148
    designrdesignr Posts: 716member
    mytdave said:
    designr said:
    Now there you go using sense and reason. People working together to arrive at suitable solution rather than a specific solution being mandated from on high.
    Nobody complains about an adult taking their young child into the other gender's restroom, because it's not sexual.  Having a pervert/mentally ill person wander into the wrong restroom is.  The scenarios are completely different and you know it.
    It's possible you've misunderstood what side of the argument I'm on here. Let me clarify: I think that individual organizations and businesses should have the freedom to decide how they want to arrange their facilities, including bathrooms and the rules for use of them. No particular policy should be mandated by government. If you do not like the policies of that company or organization, go elsewhere. In cases like the previous poster outlined, a group of people voluntarily came to a suitable arrangement that worked for all of them.
  • Reply 129 of 148
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    volcan said:
    The articles are posted wherever the author wants them posted. There is no bot making that decision.
    Has the bot ever posted outside of General Discussion? Seems to me like it’s automated.
  • Reply 130 of 148
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    designr said:

    No particular policy should be mandated by government. If you do not like the policies of that company or organization, go elsewhere.
    The government is also an organization and they should establish policies regarding the use public restrooms where applicable, however, I agree that they should not dictate policy for public/private corporation owned bathrooms. They do have jurisdiction over public buildings such as government offices or state universities. They can also set policy for any organization that receives public funding even if it is privately owned.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 131 of 148
    mactacmactac Posts: 315member
    You were born with certain plumbing. Just because your brain doesn't recognize it, doesn't mean its not there. No way in hell am I going to let a male with a penis go into the ladies restroom when my wife is in there.
    tallest skil
  • Reply 132 of 148
    designrdesignr Posts: 716member
    volcan said:
    designr said:

    No particular policy should be mandated by government. If you do not like the policies of that company or organization, go elsewhere.
    The government is also an organization and they should establish policies regarding the use public restrooms where applicable, however, I agree that they should not dictate policy for public/private corporation owned bathrooms. They do have jurisdiction over public buildings such as government offices or state universities. They can also set policy for any organization that receives public funding even if it is privately owned.
    I agree. And if, as an organization, you don't want to be subject to such government mandates, then don't make a deal with the devil by taking their money. Where it might get a little tricky is when people suggest that something like the tax-exempt status of a church or other similar organization is a "subsidy" and thus they are "taking money from the government". This a weak argument, but I've seen it made more than once.
  • Reply 133 of 148
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    volcan said:
    The articles are posted wherever the author wants them posted. There is no bot making that decision.
    Has the bot ever posted outside of General Discussion? Seems to me like it’s automated.
    Sure, all the time. For example they post to /Home/iPhone/ or any of the subcategories nested within. The posting process is automated to the extent that the Appleinsider member is probably using something similar to the old Kasper Automated Slave which moves the article contents from www.appleinsider.com to forums.appleinsider.com but it appears to me to be under the complete control of a human.
    edited March 2016 tallest skil
  • Reply 134 of 148
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    mactac said:
    No way in hell am I going to let a male with a penis go into the ladies restroom when my wife is in there.
    You have no idea that isn't already happening. Would you rather have the penis police outside the women's room frisking up your wife and daughter to make sure they weren't cross dressers?
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 135 of 148
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    volcan said:
    Would you rather have the penis police outside the women's room frisking up your wife and daughter to make sure they weren't cross dressers?
    I’d rather the mentally ill get actual help rather than enabling. We don’t give pedophiles children and we don’t give sadists people to cut on.
  • Reply 136 of 148
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,779moderator
    The truth is that trannies are mentally ill and have no special “rights” except the right to the psychological counseling they need to get over their delusions.
    There are different stages and kinds of transexuals. The following would be closer to who you are talking about:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/12/30/comedian-who-came-out-as-transgender-reverts-back-to-a-man/



    They are people at an early stage of transitioning with mostly cross-dressing and could easily go back again as that person did.

    There are fully transitioned post-op transexuals like the following model:






    Full body images and videos at the following links:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3510131/Transgender-model-Andreja-Peji-flaunts-slender-figure-nude-toned-bra-panties.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3453804/Transgender-model-Andreja-Pejic-cover-Marie-Claire-Spain.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3383913/Andreja-Pejic-displays-model-physique-red-triangle-bikini-ushers-New-Year-Miami-Beach.html

    Other examples here:

    http://transsexualdateonline.com/beautiful-transsexuals-charming-sexy-west-world/



    There's a couple here who both switched gender:

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/799313.shtml



    There's a wide mixture here:

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/storywall/transgender-today

    I don't think anyone would say that a man could put on a dress, call themselves transexual like the first person above and be allowed to use facilities of the opposite gender so whatever laws are made need to have limits but for people who have fully transitioned, they can't be expected to go back again and have surgery reversed. While you could argue that nobody should be allowed to transition to begin with, sometimes people look and behave more like the other sex than would be typical for how they are born, some have the gender changed at a very young age, some hermaphrodites will be assigned a gender and it may have been wrong.

    There are cases where the outcome doesn't look natural:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-leagues-first-transgender-woman-7115310



    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/storywall/transgender-today/stories/melissa-chapman



    http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2012/08/02/vancouverite-makes-transition-from-john-to-kelly.html



    http://kotaku.com/5909038/a-transgender-transition-inside-ea-sports-will-everyone-stare-at-me





    http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Hires+Veteran+Hacker+Who+Delayed+Windows+Vista/article29366.htm



    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2111259/The-man-given-birth-times-With-broad-smiles-Beaties-look-like-normal-happy-family-Nothing-truth-.html



    People being beside them in intimate settings could easily feel threatened by them. To suggest they get mental help implies they haven't had this already. They do have to go through psychological evaluation and have to live like the gender they want for years before a doctor will agree to perform any surgery and hormone therapy.

    There are all sorts of complications that arise with this, how to deal with gender-based competitions, how to deal with legal status, how to handle the transition. The easy answer to arrive at is that they just get forced into living the way were born but they have gone through that process for years and they still wanted to change. Maybe the result will have to be that there are special facilities for some of them or for some periods of transition. The early stages of transition would be awkward no matter which facilities they use.

    For some that have fully transitioned successfully, usually at a younger age, people would find it very hard to tell so they'd never know anything was different and they'll continue to use the facilities of the gender they have transitioned to. For the ones that stand out or are starting transitioning, it could be distressing for people around them and there's going to have to be laws that cover these scenarios. A singular set of guidelines for all the above people would never work. It can't be that only the attractive ones get a free pass either.

    The law will not be able to force the issue entirely because other people will just stop using facilities where they feel uncomfortable and businesses will respond to that.
    stourque
  • Reply 137 of 148
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    designr said:

    I agree. And if, as an organization, you don't want to be subject to such government mandates, then don't make a deal with the devil by taking their money. 
    Actually I slightly misstated that earlier comment. It is not just receiving public funding but also contracting on government projects. I'll give you an example: Say you have a video editing business creating a television advertisement to promote a government program. It is possible for the government to require certain stipulations be abided to or you don't get the job. Regarding bathrooms, unlikely, but possible. It is sort like them requiring you have insurance and a reseller ID but to a much more extreme degree.
  • Reply 138 of 148
    designrdesignr Posts: 716member
    volcan said:
    designr said:

    I agree. And if, as an organization, you don't want to be subject to such government mandates, then don't make a deal with the devil by taking their money. 
    Actually I slightly misstated that earlier comment. It is not just receiving public funding but also contracting on government projects. I'll give you an example: Say you have a video editing business creating a television advertisement to promote a government program. It is possible for the government to require certain stipulations be abided to or you don't get the job. Regarding bathrooms, unlikely, but possible. It is sort like them requiring you have insurance and a reseller ID but to a much more extreme degree.
    Sure, and I agree with that as well. If you decide to deal with the devil, you play by its rules.

    I think the more important issue here is that people want the government to mandate certain kinds of rules like this for everyone.
  • Reply 139 of 148
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    tallest skil said:

    I’d rather the mentally ill get actual help rather than enabling. 
    You better than anyone should know that testing people to see if they are cross dressers and need therapy takes away everyone's personal freedom.
  • Reply 140 of 148
    xbitxbit Posts: 357member
    mytdave said:

    As for the elephant in the room: If you have a Y chromosome you're a man, damnit, and you have no business using the same restroom that my wife and daughter use!
    Watch out, I'm about to blow your mind...

    In Europe, some places have gender neutral restrooms! The cubicles mean that no-one sees genitalia that they don't want to see. Do you have cubicles where you live or do people shit in a hole?
    edited March 2016 singularity
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