Yes. You guys need to get over the fact that American companies have money and have thus earned their status in the world. It's not some unfair game. Apple brings hundreds of millions of dollars of investment into local economies they establish themselves in (like Ireland), help create new huge markets and hundred million dollar companies like ZAGG and Mophie, etc (not discourage competition as your economically dyslexic politicians claim), and create jobs. That is far better than what your governments would do with the tax dollars you so desperately want from Apple. Whatever 'deals' you complain about are well deserved by a company like Apple. If you don't like it, enjoy the price hikes in your continent. It's simple economics.
What nonsense. There are no Euro "fags" saying that competition is unfair, or that Apple don't deserve their success. But Apple are plenty well rewarded without the need for state aid. Profit is the reward, not corporate welfare.
Many of you goons speak of Apple's case is 'anti-trust' which by definition means anti-competitive. State aid my ass! It's the EU that is trying to get the aid by double dipping of Apple. Apple doesn't have to choose to set up headquarters in Ireland. They could set up in any country they want anywhere and would be welcomed with open arms. Why? Because they make huge investments into local economies. HUGE! Any country in their right mind would, and obviously have, welcomed Apple with open arms. It's not for nothing. They benefit from Apple... Directly. Then the EU wants to come and step on Ireland's toes and tell them they can't do what they clearly want to do. Now. The investments into the local economies in Ireland is not enough for the EU. The EU wants billions in tax dollars from Apple now too. It's called Double Dipping. If Apple drained the EU's resources then I might get it. But they don't. They provide ample benefit. And then you want them to pay more on top of it. So ungrateful and economically illiterate... All because the EU cannot pay its own bills or make the world operate like a Disney fantasy.
What nonsense. There are no Euro "fags" saying that competition is unfair, or that Apple don't deserve their success. But Apple are plenty well rewarded without the need for state aid. Profit is the reward, not corporate welfare.
Many of you goons speak of Apple's case is 'anti-trust' which by definition means anti-competitive. State aid my ass! It's the EU that is trying to get the aid by double dipping of Apple. Apple doesn't have to choose to set up headquarters in Ireland. They could set up in any country they want anywhere and would be welcomed with open arms. Why? Because they make huge investments into local economies. HUGE! Any country in their right mind would, and obviously have, welcomed Apple with open arms. It's not for nothing. They benefit from Apple... Directly. Then the EU wants to come and step on Ireland's toes and tell them they can't do what they clearly want to do. Now. The investments into the local economies in Ireland is not enough for the EU. The EU wants billions in tax dollars from Apple now too. It's called Double Dipping. If Apple drained the EU's resources then I might get it. But they don't. They provide ample benefit. And then you want them to pay more on top of it. So ungrateful and economically illiterate... All because the EU cannot pay its own bills or make the world operate like a Disney fantasy.
You simply do not have a clue as to what the actual issue is or what you are talking about.
The Irish government did a special tax deal with just Apple and gave them a stupidly low tax rate. That gave them a competitive advantage in the EU that other companies could not avail of. Of all the companies on the planet ,Apple needs a leg up less than any other company you could name. The EU has regulations designed to create a level playing field for companies operating in the EU. The agreement between Apple and the Irish government breached these rules. I probably pay more taxes to the Irish government than I ought to because of this deal.
There is NO double dipping. The EU gets no taxes from Apple and wont get any if the Commission finds against the Apple/Ireland deal. The outcome would be Ireland would have to collect the taxes the agreement allowed Apple to avoid paying. Apple will be no worse off than any other company that operaties in Ireland and that pays the nominal corporate tax rate.
Even without the special deal, Ireland has about the lowest corporate tax rates in the EU so Apple isn't and wont be hard done by if they have to pay them in full. They will still be financially better off than they would be elsewhere in the EU. Ireland chose to join the EU, they weren't forced to, so if they breached the EU's rules then the EU isn't stepping on their toes by telling them to knock it off.
Apple don't pay enough tax in the EU, Australia and probably many other countries - which is one of the main reasons they have accumulated as much cash as they have. There is no issue of Apple paying 'more on top of' since they never paid a reasonable amount in the first place.
I pay proportionally over 1300 % more tax than Apple does, which is just insane, so personally I will be glad if the EU sticks it to the Irish government.
How dare the EU try and insist that all companies and countries actually comply to the law and then have the temerity to investigate an allegation.
It's upto Ireland and Apple to show why they haven't contravened the regulations. If they can do that then nothing changes and no added money goes to Ireland. If they can't then Ireland gets to collect the cash not the EU.
If you hadn't noticed Bernie Sanders has become quite popular here
Yeah, 70 years of being indoctrinated with Marxist beliefs will do that to a population.
I agree with Crowley. "Uncool Bernie Sanders" is a redundancy.
I don't like his economic policies, much the same as I don't like the EU's attempts at a literate economic policy, but whether you like him or not Bernie is very cool, and the EU's attempt at a Bernie Sanders impression is not only philosophically devoid of economic sense, but actually sounds very lame (as compared to Bernie's populist narrative which captured the hearts of many). I thought as much as you hate socialism you and I might actually be on the same side for once
Many of you goons speak of Apple's case is 'anti-trust' which by definition means anti-competitive. State aid my ass! It's the EU that is trying to get the aid by double dipping of Apple. Apple doesn't have to choose to set up headquarters in Ireland. They could set up in any country they want anywhere and would be welcomed with open arms. Why? Because they make huge investments into local economies. HUGE! Any country in their right mind would, and obviously have, welcomed Apple with open arms. It's not for nothing. They benefit from Apple... Directly. Then the EU wants to come and step on Ireland's toes and tell them they can't do what they clearly want to do. Now. The investments into the local economies in Ireland is not enough for the EU. The EU wants billions in tax dollars from Apple now too. It's called Double Dipping. If Apple drained the EU's resources then I might get it. But they don't. They provide ample benefit. And then you want them to pay more on top of it. So ungrateful and economically illiterate... All because the EU cannot pay its own bills or make the world operate like a Disney fantasy.
You simply do not have a clue as to what the actual issue is or what you are talking about.
The Irish government did a special tax deal with just Apple and gave them a stupidly low tax rate. That gave them a competitive advantage in the EU that other companies could not avail of. Of all the companies on the planet ,Apple needs a leg up less than any other company you could name. The EU has regulations designed to create a level playing field for companies operating in the EU. The agreement between Apple and the Irish government breached these rules. I probably pay more taxes to the Irish government than I ought to because of this deal.
There is NO double dipping. The EU gets no taxes from Apple and wont get any if the Commission finds against the Apple/Ireland deal. The outcome would be Ireland would have to collect the taxes the agreement allowed Apple to avoid paying. Apple will be no worse off than any other company that operaties in Ireland and that pays the nominal corporate tax rate.
Even without the special deal, Ireland has about the lowest corporate tax rates in the EU so Apple isn't and wont be hard done by if they have to pay them in full. They will still be financially better off than they would be elsewhere in the EU. Ireland chose to join the EU, they weren't forced to, so if they breached the EU's rules then the EU isn't stepping on their toes by telling them to knock it off.
Apple don't pay enough tax in the EU, Australia and probably many other countries - which is one of the main reasons they have accumulated as much cash as they have. There is no issue of Apple paying 'more on top of' since they never paid a reasonable amount in the first place.
I pay proportionally over 1300 % more tax than Apple does, which is just insane, so personally I will be glad if the EU sticks it to the Irish government.
Who the hell in Europe has ever been a direct competitor of Apple? Even when Apple was almost bankrupt (and had no competitive advantage)... Name one.
I don't like his economic policies, much the same as I don't like the EU's attempts at a literate economic policy, but whether you like him or not Bernie is very cool, and the EU's attempt at a Bernie Sanders impression is not only philosophically devoid of economic sense, but actually sounds very lame (as compared to Bernie's populist narrative which captured the hearts of many). I thought as much as you hate socialism you and I might actually be on the same side for once
No, I completely agree with you about his economic policies. He wants the next step beyond the EU's garbage, but fortunately he doesn't have a prayer of being elected, even when Clinton is found legally invalidated.
You simply do not have a clue as to what the actual issue is or what you are talking about.
The Irish government did a special tax deal with just Apple and gave them a stupidly low tax rate. That gave them a competitive advantage in the EU that other companies could not avail of. Of all the companies on the planet ,Apple needs a leg up less than any other company you could name. The EU has regulations designed to create a level playing field for companies operating in the EU. The agreement between Apple and the Irish government breached these rules. I probably pay more taxes to the Irish government than I ought to because of this deal.
There is NO double dipping. The EU gets no taxes from Apple and wont get any if the Commission finds against the Apple/Ireland deal. The outcome would be Ireland would have to collect the taxes the agreement allowed Apple to avoid paying. Apple will be no worse off than any other company that operaties in Ireland and that pays the nominal corporate tax rate.
Even without the special deal, Ireland has about the lowest corporate tax rates in the EU so Apple isn't and wont be hard done by if they have to pay them in full. They will still be financially better off than they would be elsewhere in the EU. Ireland chose to join the EU, they weren't forced to, so if they breached the EU's rules then the EU isn't stepping on their toes by telling them to knock it off.
Apple don't pay enough tax in the EU, Australia and probably many other countries - which is one of the main reasons they have accumulated as much cash as they have. There is no issue of Apple paying 'more on top of' since they never paid a reasonable amount in the first place.
I pay proportionally over 1300 % more tax than Apple does, which is just insane, so personally I will be glad if the EU sticks it to the Irish government.
Who the hell in Europe has ever been a direct competitor of Apple? Even when Apple was almost bankrupt (and had no competitive advantage)... Name one.
Microsoft, Nokia, amstrad, Sony and any other computer, phone and software company that operates in the EU and EFTA areas.
Who the hell in Europe has ever been a direct competitor of Apple? Even when Apple was almost bankrupt (and had no competitive advantage)... Name one.
Microsoft, Nokia, amstrad, Sony and any other computer, phone and software company that operates in the EU and EFTA areas.
Microsoft is not a Europen company. They bought Nokia and Nokia still failed. Ericcson was bought by Sony, a Japanese company, and failed. Not because of Apple's tax deals (Microsoft had tax deals too). No real competitors in the EU or on the horizon for the EU because the EU has TOO MANY REGULATIONS WHICH MAKE IT BURDENSOME FOR BUSINESSES TO START SO THEY CANNOT SUCCEED. EU companies will never be able to compete with U.S. companies because of the regulatory burdens you boneheads insist upon. Boneheads because you are sabatoging your own potential success and throwing a frickin' tantrum because we are kicking your ass economically, and we will continue to kick your ass even if your half-baked tax schemes work... Though it has still taken you idiots two years and still nothing yet.
Microsoft, Nokia, amstrad, Sony and any other computer, phone and software company that operates in the EU and EFTA areas.
Microsoft is not a Europen company. They bought Nokia and Nokia still failed. Ericcson was bought by Sony, a Japanese company, and failed. Not because of Apple's tax deals (Microsoft had tax deals too). No real competitors in the EU or on the horizon for the EU because the EU has TOO MANY REGULATIONS WHICH MAKE IT BURDENSOME FOR BUSINESSES TO START SO THEY CANNOT SUCCEED. EU companies will never be able to compete with U.S. companies because of the regulatory burdens you boneheads insist upon. Boneheads because you are sabatoging your own potential success and throwing a frickin' tantrum because we are kicking your ass economically, and we will continue to kick your ass even if your half-baked tax schemes work... Though it has still taken you idiots two years and still nothing yet.
I know ms isn't an European company but that isn't relevant. What is relevant is other companies didn't get the deal Apple has been alleged to have got. Where the parent company is incorporated doesn't matter. What matters is they do business in the EU and thus have to comply to EU regulations. Don't want to comply then you can't do business. I would rather have the burden of EU regulations than the wild west you have in the USA where companies blackmail states into accepting having them where the taxpayers lose out time and time again but hey if it's good for you, enjoy it.
Microsoft is not a Europen company. They bought Nokia and Nokia still failed. Ericcson was bought by Sony, a Japanese company, and failed. Not because of Apple's tax deals (Microsoft had tax deals too). No real competitors in the EU or on the horizon for the EU because the EU has TOO MANY REGULATIONS WHICH MAKE IT BURDENSOME FOR BUSINESSES TO START SO THEY CANNOT SUCCEED. EU companies will never be able to compete with U.S. companies because of the regulatory burdens you boneheads insist upon. Boneheads because you are sabatoging your own potential success and throwing a frickin' tantrum because we are kicking your ass economically, and we will continue to kick your ass even if your half-baked tax schemes work... Though it has still taken you idiots two years and still nothing yet.
I know ms isn't an European company but that isn't relevant. What is relevant is other companies didn't get the deal Apple has been alleged to have got. Where the parent company is incorporated doesn't matter. What matters is they do business in the EU and thus have to comply to EU regulations. Don't want to comply then you can't do business. I would rather have the burden of EU regulations than the wild west you have in the USA where companies blackmail states into accepting having them where the taxpayers lose out time and time again but hey if it's good for you, enjoy it.
How do the taxpayers supposedly lose out? Euros will lose out when they have to start paying more for Apple products to make up for the costs involved. I know very well you don't like that big corporations who provide jobs and economic investment and in turn garner a lower tax burden for their investment, Wild West or whatever you want to call it. But you still haven't identified any Apple competitors in the EU that are EU based and losing out because of the tax deals. You cannot because your regulation-happy society is shooting itself in the foot by making it impossible for businesses to start up and grow.
Microsoft, Nokia, amstrad, Sony and any other computer, phone and software company that operates in the EU and EFTA areas.
Microsoft is not a Europen company. They bought Nokia and Nokia still failed. Ericcson was bought by Sony, a Japanese company, and failed. Not because of Apple's tax deals (Microsoft had tax deals too). No real competitors in the EU or on the horizon for the EU because the EU has TOO MANY REGULATIONS WHICH MAKE IT BURDENSOME FOR BUSINESSES TO START SO THEY CANNOT SUCCEED. EU companies will never be able to compete with U.S. companies because of the regulatory burdens you boneheads insist upon. Boneheads because you are sabatoging your own potential success and throwing a frickin' tantrum because we are kicking your ass economically, and we will continue to kick your ass even if your half-baked tax schemes work... Though it has still taken you idiots two years and still nothing yet.
The lesson is obvious, European companies should stop selling up to foreign multinationals who ride them into the ground. Sounds like we need some good regulation there.
What nonsense. There are no Euro "fags" saying that competition is unfair, or that Apple don't deserve their success. But Apple are plenty well rewarded without the need for state aid. Profit is the reward, not corporate welfare.
Many of you goons speak of Apple's case is 'anti-trust' which by definition means anti-competitive.
You seem a bit confused. Any antitrust case against Apple is not anti-competitive, it'll be accusing Apple of being anti-competitive by abusing a market position to the detriment of other competition. I'm not sure what case you're talking about exactly, so can't elaborate any more, but that's what an antitrust action is.
Microsoft is not a Europen company. They bought Nokia and Nokia still failed. Ericcson was bought by Sony, a Japanese company, and failed. Not because of Apple's tax deals (Microsoft had tax deals too). No real competitors in the EU or on the horizon for the EU because the EU has TOO MANY REGULATIONS WHICH MAKE IT BURDENSOME FOR BUSINESSES TO START SO THEY CANNOT SUCCEED. EU companies will never be able to compete with U.S. companies because of the regulatory burdens you boneheads insist upon. Boneheads because you are sabatoging your own potential success and throwing a frickin' tantrum because we are kicking your ass economically, and we will continue to kick your ass even if your half-baked tax schemes work... Though it has still taken you idiots two years and still nothing yet.
The lesson is obvious, European companies should stop selling up to foreign multinationals who ride them into the ground. Sounds like we need some good regulation there.
International companies did not run them into the ground. They swooped in to save their ass as it is impossible to start up a globally successful company in Europe due to all your Tinkerbell regulations. Microsoft and Sony got beat purely by how good iPhone was. Windows phone came too late to the game and Sony/Ericcson got caught with their d-cks in their hands not ready at all for the smartphone era because they didn't have the appropriate approach to software, or completely ancient software plans. Euro companies were already hobbled by your own self-defeating regulations. American and Japanese companies came in either too late or got surprised by iPhones innovation. If feature phones remained the standard Nokia and Ericcson may have still been strong. But that is not reality. Smartphones are the reality and Apple plain smoked MS/Nokia and Sony/Ericcson. You got beat fair and square and even this feeble attempt to cut Apple down to try to help your companies compete won't help Euro companies compete. Computers and smartphones are too big a market and it is not possible to thrive as a tech company with such self-defeating regulations in Europe. You guys should stick with selling coffee. The EU is good at that.
Many of you goons speak of Apple's case is 'anti-trust' which by definition means anti-competitive.
You seem a bit confused. Any antitrust case against Apple is not anti-competitive, it'll be accusing Apple of being anti-competitive by abusing a market position to the detriment of other competition. I'm not sure what case you're talking about exactly, so can't elaborate any more, but that's what an antitrust action is.
That's exactly what I'm referring to. The biggest EU nuts have likened Apple's tax deal to being anti-trust, meaning Apple is acting anti-competitive, which is a total joke.
The lesson is obvious, European companies should stop selling up to foreign multinationals who ride them into the ground. Sounds like we need some good regulation there.
International companies did not run them into the ground. They swooped in to save their ass as it is impossible to start up a globally successful company in Europe due to all your Tinkerbell regulations. Microsoft and Sony got beat purely by how good iPhone was. Windows phone came too late to the game and Sony/Ericcson got caught with their d-cks in their hands not ready at all for the smartphone era because they didn't have the appropriate approach to software, or completely ancient software plans. Euro companies were already hobbled by your own self-defeating regulations. American and Japanese companies came in either too late or got surprised by iPhones innovation. If feature phones remained the standard Nokia and Ericcson may have still been strong. But that is not reality. Smartphones are the reality and Apple plain smoked MS/Nokia and Sony/Ericcson. You got beat fair and square and even this feeble attempt to cut Apple down to try to help your companies compete won't help Euro companies compete. Computers and smartphones are too big a market and it is not possible to thrive as a tech company with such self-defeating regulations in Europe. You guys should stick with selling coffee. The EU is good at that.
Do you have a single example of a regulation that hobbled any of those companies? They were managed into bad positions (something that happens with US companies regularly too, see HP, Atari, Commodore and many more outside of tech), then took bad mergers/takeovers that destroyed what remained of their business. Very little or nothing to do with regulation. The fact that Nokia and Ericsson came about in the first place, and that both of them have moderately successful continuing businesses outside of the smartphone industry (apparently the only thing that you think is important) is a further nail in the coffin of your absurdly reductive theory. Btw, Ericsson wasn't bought by Sony, they're still a patent-rich billion dollar player in telecoms, Sony-Ericsson was a joint venture.
Methinks you're viewing this with far too much of an Us-vs-Them attitude, and you don't actually know all that much about the regulatory climate that you're bashing.
You seem a bit confused. Any antitrust case against Apple is not anti-competitive, it'll be accusing Apple of being anti-competitive by abusing a market position to the detriment of other competition. I'm not sure what case you're talking about exactly, so can't elaborate any more, but that's what an antitrust action is.
That's exactly what I'm referring to. The biggest EU nuts have likened Apple's tax deal to being anti-trust, meaning Apple is acting anti-competitive, which is a total joke.
Well that isn't a case against Apple, it's a case against the Irish government, so you're pretty misinformed there.
That's exactly what I'm referring to. The biggest EU nuts have likened Apple's tax deal to being anti-trust, meaning Apple is acting anti-competitive, which is a total joke.
Well that isn't a case against Apple, it's a case against the Irish government, so you're pretty misinformed there.
Is Echolalia unique to Europeans. You really enjoying saying people are misinformed. All I've stated above is that your peeps are misinformed and saying stupid stuff. Both you and Gwydion both like to repeat the same crap over and over.
International companies did not run them into the ground. They swooped in to save their ass as it is impossible to start up a globally successful company in Europe due to all your Tinkerbell regulations. Microsoft and Sony got beat purely by how good iPhone was. Windows phone came too late to the game and Sony/Ericcson got caught with their d-cks in their hands not ready at all for the smartphone era because they didn't have the appropriate approach to software, or completely ancient software plans. Euro companies were already hobbled by your own self-defeating regulations. American and Japanese companies came in either too late or got surprised by iPhones innovation. If feature phones remained the standard Nokia and Ericcson may have still been strong. But that is not reality. Smartphones are the reality and Apple plain smoked MS/Nokia and Sony/Ericcson. You got beat fair and square and even this feeble attempt to cut Apple down to try to help your companies compete won't help Euro companies compete. Computers and smartphones are too big a market and it is not possible to thrive as a tech company with such self-defeating regulations in Europe. You guys should stick with selling coffee. The EU is good at that.
Do you have a single example of a regulation that hobbled any of those companies? They were managed into bad positions (something that happens with US companies regularly too, see HP, Atari, Commodore and many more outside of tech), then took bad mergers/takeovers that destroyed what remained of their business. Very little or nothing to do with regulation. The fact that Nokia and Ericsson came about in the first place, and that both of them have moderately successful continuing businesses outside of the smartphone industry (apparently the only thing that you think is important) is a further nail in the coffin of your absurdly reductive theory. Btw, Ericsson wasn't bought by Sony, they're still a patent-rich billion dollar player in telecoms, Sony-Ericsson was a joint venture.
Methinks you're viewing this with far too much of an Us-vs-Them attitude, and you don't actually know all that much about the regulatory climate that you're bashing.
That's exactly what I'm referring to. The biggest EU nuts have likened Apple's tax deal to being anti-trust, meaning Apple is acting anti-competitive, which is a total joke.
Well that isn't a case against Apple, it's a case against the Irish government, so you're pretty misinformed there.
Why is there no new growth coming out of Eurocorpse? I was using smartphone ms as an example, since it has been the biggest driver of growth in the last decade. Us versus them when you're trying to get Apple to part with 8 billion dollars to give to politicians to do what they will with, you better believe it! Short of that I've actually had a long history of liking Europe.
Comments
The Irish government did a special tax deal with just Apple and gave them a stupidly low tax rate. That gave them a competitive advantage in the EU that other companies could not avail of. Of all the companies on the planet ,Apple needs a leg up less than any other company you could name. The EU has regulations designed to create a level playing field for companies operating in the EU. The agreement between Apple and the Irish government breached these rules. I probably pay more taxes to the Irish government than I ought to because of this deal.
There is NO double dipping. The EU gets no taxes from Apple and wont get any if the Commission finds against the Apple/Ireland deal. The outcome would be Ireland would have to collect the taxes the agreement allowed Apple to avoid paying. Apple will be no worse off than any other company that operaties in Ireland and that pays the nominal corporate tax rate.
Even without the special deal, Ireland has about the lowest corporate tax rates in the EU so Apple isn't and wont be hard done by if they have to pay them in full. They will still be financially better off than they would be elsewhere in the EU. Ireland chose to join the EU, they weren't forced to, so if they breached the EU's rules then the EU isn't stepping on their toes by telling them to knock it off.
Apple don't pay enough tax in the EU, Australia and probably many other countries - which is one of the main reasons they have accumulated as much cash as they have. There is no issue of Apple paying 'more on top of' since they never paid a reasonable amount in the first place.
I pay proportionally over 1300 % more tax than Apple does, which is just insane, so personally I will be glad if the EU sticks it to the Irish government.
I agree with Crowley. "Uncool Bernie Sanders" is a redundancy.
It's upto Ireland and Apple to show why they haven't contravened the regulations. If they can do that then nothing changes and no added money goes to Ireland. If they can't then Ireland gets to collect the cash not the EU.
I would rather have the burden of EU regulations than the wild west you have in the USA where companies blackmail states into accepting having them where the taxpayers lose out time and time again but hey if it's good for you, enjoy it.
Methinks you're viewing this with far too much of an Us-vs-Them attitude, and you don't actually know all that much about the regulatory climate that you're bashing.