Retailers, payments association side with Australian banks over Apple Pay negotiations

Posted:
in iPhone edited August 2016
Major retailers and payments associations filed letters in support of a regulatory request from Australia's three top banks that would force Apple into collective negotiations over third-party access to iPhone's secure NFC module.




In separate responses to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, Coles Supermarkets, the Australian Retailers Association, Bluechain, the Australian Payments Clearing Association and Australian Settlements Limited all voiced support in favor of establishing digital wallet access standards, ZDNet reports. The letters were posted as the ACCC denied the banks interim approval to negotiate last week.

Australia's "big-three" banks, the Commonwealth Bank of Australia, National Australia Bank and Westpac Banking Corp, along with Bendigo and Adelaide Bank, last month lodged a request with the ACCC to collectively negotiate terms under which Apple would allow installation of third-party digital wallet apps onto iPhone hardware.

The process would require Apple to open its secure NFC technology to third-party applications, presumably bank cards, loyalty cards and other branded assets marketed by the applicant banks. Apple currently restricts iPhone and Apple Watch NFC module access to Apple Pay, a strategy the banks view as anticompetitive.

Coles in its response said NFC is a key technology in furthering mobile wallet solutions, an area of interest for the company since it rolled out NFC enabled point of sale terminals in 2012. The company, which is also a credit card issuer marketing the Coles MasterCard, says a collective negotiation on industry standards and guidelines is in the customer's best interest.

"We note there has been an ongoing movement in Australia to improve the transparency of costs to consumers related to their banking products," said Nikala Busse, Head of Payments at Coles. "We would envisage that activity that supports cost transparency or creates incentives to lower costs for the benefit of consumers would be in the public interest."

Similarly, the ARA believes negotiations would spur competition in the mobile payments space, providing more choice for customers, card issuers and merchants. The group also argues an open standard can stimulate innovation, investment efforts and transparent interchange fees otherwise stymied by closed systems.

"In our view, for as long as Apple Pay remains the only app that can use the iPhone's NFC functionality, the potential for innovation in mobile wallets and mobile payments will be limited," ARA said. "A number of banks and merchants overseas have tried to develop mobile wallets and payment services using alternative technologies, but none have been successful."

Letters from the APCA, ASL and Bluechain read much the same.

PayPal also submitted an opinion, but fell short of endorsing the banks' request for negotiations. Instead, the digital payments giant took issue with the application's definition of "mobile wallet," calling the provided definition too broad. Additionally, PayPal noted the APCA's voluntary Third Party Digital Wallet Security Industry Guidelines should not be mandated without an open discussion on standards.

For its part, Apple contends the banks' ACCC application boils down to competition. Apple Pay, the company says, is perceived as a threat and the banks' request to negotiate an open standard is a strategy meant to "blunt Apple's entry into the Australian market."
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 43
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,289member


    In separate responses to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, Coles Supermarkets, the Australian Retailers Association, Bluechain, the Australian Payments Clearing Association and Australian Settlements Limited all voiced support in favor of establishing digital wallet access standards, ZDNet reports.


    latifbpDeelronmagman1979pscooter63iqatedofracloquiturjbdragonsteveaubadmonk
  • Reply 2 of 43
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,808member
    I guess if I were Apple, I'd just say fuck Australia! Sorry to those who live there and can't use it, but if banks and retailers want to be dipshits then I guess Apple has no choice. 
    s713latifbptopper24hoursrobertwalterlostkiwimagman1979pscooter63SpamSandwichradarthekatksec
  • Reply 3 of 43
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,842moderator
    "The process would require Apple to open its secure NFC technology to third-party applications, presumably bank cards, loyalty cards and other branded assets marketed by the applicant banks."

    Are you sure about that?  See macxpress' comment, above.
    edited August 2016 latifbptopper24hoursrobertwalterpscooter63jony0badmonk
  • Reply 4 of 43
    Yep, time to tell Australia to pound sand and remove ApplePay from there.
    latifbprobertwalterlostkiwimagman1979pscooter63mwhiteradarthekatjahbladejony0jbdragon
  • Reply 5 of 43
    Not really a surprise. 3 out of 4 banks that form a cartel trying to control the market. Coles Supermarket - 1 of 2 Duopoly jumping on the bandwagon to control their rewards programs and credit cards. Reduces their ability to mine data from purchases if Apple controls the payments mechanism. No need to leave Australia though. You think they should leave every country that puts up a fight? Its called disruption for a reason.
    lolliverDeelronrobertwalterlostkiwidouglas baileyfracksecbrucemcjahbladejony0
  • Reply 6 of 43
    chiachia Posts: 713member
    I fail to understand the reasoning of these Australian Banks and the retailers.
    Why do they feel they have the right to Apple's NFC chip and software?

    There is no monopoly of Apple Pay, the consumer is not forced to use Apple Pay to make transactions, other means are available: cash, ordinary and contactless cards, even Android Pay!

    I suspect this arguing is either:
    a. A very hardline negotiating tactic to drive down the Apple Pay transaction fees.
    or
    b. Just some strawman argument by these groups to justify keeping Apple Pay, potentially a competitive rival, out of the Australian card transaction system.

    Such antics may well spectacularly backfire  for the Australian cartel colluding to protect the status quo: rather than abandon the Australian market, Apple may well acquire or even set up a payment processing company of its own as a service to its customers.

    Such a processor can handle all cards, not just the Apple Pay; any refusal by the Australian banks to do deal with it will be a red flag for anti-competitive behaviour.
    edited August 2016 EsquireCatsDeelronrobertwalterlostkiwipscooter63brucemcjony0waverboybig
  • Reply 7 of 43
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,073member
    The only 'innovations' that 'retailers' want to implement are all to do with how to track the customer and how to use any bit of data that are irrelevant to the transaction in order to invade the customers' privacy for the sole purpose of marketing over security and usability.
    EsquireCatslolliverDeelrontopper24hourslostkiwimagman1979pscooter63frantisekwilliamlondonjony0
  • Reply 8 of 43
    red oakred oak Posts: 1,088member
    Australia's whole population is less than the city of Shanghai, China.  I expect Apple is prepared to walk alway here if necessary 


    robertwalterlostkiwipscooter63brucemcjony0big
  • Reply 9 of 43
    These retailers and banks should build their own phone. Why should Apple be forced to open its technology just because others failed to make a compelling platform/device of their own that people want to use?

    No one forces the software powering a microwave oven to be open for others to write on, nor is BMW forced to open its iDrive media console software software to others.
    jkichlineEsquireCatslatifbplolliverDeelronrobertwalterlostkiwimagman1979mwhiteradarthekat
  • Reply 10 of 43
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,958member
    I trust Apple with my Security, not random Aussie supermarkets and banks who claim they are even too clueless to develop their own wallets. But they want to muck around with Apple's chip. G'dye and goodbye. 
    latifbptopper24hoursrobertwalterlostkiwimagman1979pscooter63radarthekatksecjony0Dan Andersen
  • Reply 11 of 43
    Would this force Apple to open its Secure Enclave to 3rd parties too?  That'd be dangerous.

    The (future) ruling probably would not require this, since the article says nothing about it, but Apple Pay uses the Secure Enclave, so I could see 3rd parties crying, "We want to use that too!"  Forcing manufacturers to allow 3rd party access to their assets is a very slippery slope...
    latifbpDeelronrobertwaltermagman1979pscooter63radarthekatksecbig
  • Reply 12 of 43
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,369member
    Good luck with that, Australia. Apple would sooner become a bank and put you all out of business before it bows to an anti-privacy and insecure solution.
    latifbpDeelronrobertwalterlostkiwimagman1979pscooter63SpamSandwichmwhiteksec80s_Apple_Guy
  • Reply 13 of 43
    EsquireCatsEsquireCats Posts: 1,268member
    How surprising, anticompetitive companies *which are also under investigation from the ACCC* are lending support to other anticompetitive companies which are also under investigation from ASIC. *eye roll*
    latifbplolliverDeelronrobertwalterlostkiwimagman1979pscooter63xiamenbillgtrradarthekat
  • Reply 14 of 43
    lolliverlolliver Posts: 494member
    macxpress said:
    I guess if I were Apple, I'd just say fuck Australia! Sorry to those who live there and can't use it, but if banks and retailers want to be dipshits then I guess Apple has no choice. 
    Yep, time to tell Australia to pound sand and remove ApplePay from there.


    Good thing Apple isn't as weak as you two. I highly doubt they would just give up and walk away as you would suggest.

    Did they close down the iBooks store due to the legal issues they had to faced in the US? Did Apple leave the US market due to all the legal cases they have faced in the US due to patent trolls? Tim Cook has also said numerous times they are still planning to open up their online stores (iTunes Movies and iBooks) in China that they had to close down earlier this year. Apple are still progressing with the rollout of Apple Pay in the US despite numerous large retail chains refusing to support it.

    This case is still in the early days and I highly doubt Apple will be forced to open up access to their NFC chip. It's just the banks trying to negotiate more favourable terms for themselves because they know they have no way to compete with Apple on innovation or customer satisfaction.

    Apple already have support from ANZ and AMEX in Australia and it's only a matter of time before the other big banks are forced to adopt Apple Pay or see their iPhone carrying customers change banks.

    Apple hasn't forgotten what it's like to be the underdog when entering new markets and I'm sure they won't just walk away like cowards...

    topper24hourskevin keelostkiwimontrosemacsxiamenbilldouglas baileyksecwaverboy
  • Reply 15 of 43
    jakebjakeb Posts: 562member

    Apple: Hey Australia! We built a phone and made an operating system and added the ability to pay for things electronically without risk of fraud validated by a fingerprint.

    Australia: That's cool, we're going to sue you and make you let us profit from it. 

    Apple: ...
    kevin keelostkiwiksecnolamacguyicoco3
  • Reply 16 of 43
    saltyzipsaltyzip Posts: 193member
    It's a pure negotiation tactic over fees which I guess is why android pay isn't referenced in this article. Apple want to cream 15c for every $100 worth of transactions, whereas Google don't charge.

    https://www.android.com/intl/en_au/pay-supported-networks/
    edited August 2016 lollivercnocbui
  • Reply 17 of 43
    It will be so delicious when Apple opens up a multi offering finance arm and beats these turds into the dust. 
  • Reply 18 of 43
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,054member
    macxpress said:
    I guess if I were Apple, I'd just say fuck Australia! Sorry to those who live there and can't use it, but if banks and retailers want to be dipshits then I guess Apple has no choice. 
    Same here. I would give Australia banks a middle finger and walk away!
    magman1979pscooter63
  • Reply 19 of 43
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,958member
    saltyzip said:
    It's a pure negotiation tactic over fees which I guess is why android pay isn't referenced in this article. Apple want to cream 15c for every $100 worth of transactions, whereas Google don't charge.

    https://www.android.com/intl/en_au/pay-supported-networks/
    Depends on what is meant by "charge." I'd rather be charged up front for something instead of having my personal data sold to the highest bidder for the offerer of a "free" service to make their profit. 
    lollivermagman1979kevin keenolamacguyDan Andersen
  • Reply 20 of 43
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,293member
    saltyzip said:
    It's a pure negotiation tactic over fees which I guess is why android pay isn't referenced in this article. Apple want to cream 15c for every $100 worth of transactions, whereas Google don't charge.

    https://www.android.com/intl/en_au/pay-supported-networks/

    That's because Google get's its payday from monetizing the usage data of the dumb shleps foolish enough to still be using that piece of shit OS...
    lolliverkevin keepscooter63iqatedomwhitewilliamlondonai46Dan Andersen
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