President-elect Trump considers potential Apple manufacturing in US a 'real achievement'

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 133
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,739member
    crowley said:
    I love liberal thinking... Raise minimum wage to $15. Can't manufacture iPhones here, wages are too high.
    Apple should get into the US prison business. Lots of cheap labour there, and from the sound of it it's only going to increase under the Don.
    We should replicate the Russian gulags, Alaska might be a swell place for the majority of them.

    We could send all of the protesters, anarchists, liberals and freeloaders there to serve out their sentences.
    tallest skil
  • Reply 62 of 133
    There were none to rebut.
    Thanks for playing, then. When you have an actual reply, let us know.
    crowley said:
    [it’s mathematically simple, therefore it can’t be the source of the problem]
    Not an argument.

    apple ][ said:
    We should replicate the Russian gulags
    Soviet. Russians were the ones sent there.
    edited November 2016 apple ][gtr
  • Reply 63 of 133
    Rayz2016 said:
    I have high hopes for Trump. I voted for him because I truly believe he can bring changes that are need here stateside. I also think good advisers will temper his extreme talk. He is just candid like I am. Doesn't mean he is bad. Just has to choose his words differently depending on who he is addressing. 
    Right.

    So during a conversation about women during whicy he said, "You can do anything. Grab them by the p###y," which words should he have chosen?

    When he went past that 14-year-old girl and said to an adviser that he would be dating her in ten years, would it have been better if he said he'd be dating her in twelve years?
    Stop being a pussy. I don't see anything wrong with those comments.
    Here's the difficulty with your position on Trump's documented behavior.   If I grab your wife's hoo hah or say that about your daughter, you'd not take offense?  I don't believe you!  You'd probably deck me, as well you should.  Accordingly, if you can't see the inherent contradiction in your thinking, then you're an idiot or delusional or both.
    singularityanantksundarampalomine
  • Reply 64 of 133
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,739member
    Soviet. Russians were the ones sent there.
    I guess that the USSR does not exist anymore of course, but I always thought that it was Russia and Russians that were behind the creation of the USSR in the first place. I admit that Russian history is not something that I've read an awful lot about.
    tallest skil
  • Reply 65 of 133
    kamilton said:
    Here's the difficulty with your position on Trump's documented behavior.   If I grab your wife's hoo hah or say that about your daughter, you'd not take offense?  I don't believe you!  You'd probably deck me, as well you should.  Accordingly, if you can't see the inherent contradiction in your thinking, then you're an idiot or delusional or both.

    If you are a male, have you ever talked that way around other guys -- I did!

    If you are a female, have you ever talked that way around girls -- my late wife* did -- she even coined the p word:  pFuck... and Hornery!

    * very staunch religious girl


    AIR, the word wussy was first used by waitress Carla on the Cheers TV show -- it was clear what she meant, but it was acceptable to the censors.


    edited November 2016 apple ][gtrtallest skil
  • Reply 66 of 133
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,739member
    kamilton said:
    Here's the difficulty with your position on Trump's documented behavior.   If I grab your wife's hoo hah or say that about your daughter, you'd not take offense?  I don't believe you!  You'd probably deck me, as well you should.  Accordingly, if you can't see the inherent contradiction in your thinking, then you're an idiot or delusional or both.
    It was a private conversation between 2 men.

    You do know that men (straight men) do like pussy, don't you?

    Anybody who claims to be shocked by it is a liar and a hypocrite.






    tallest skil
  • Reply 67 of 133
    Trump is missing the point. It's not possible because there aren't enough people with the necessary skills. One example previously talked about by Cook were tool & die makers, an essential part of any product assembly (where you're making a large number of devices). People just aren't going into this trade in the US simply because most products are made overseas. There's no job market.

    Is Trump going to allow Apple to bring in thousands of foreign workers because there aren't enough in the US? Is he going to create incentives for people in the US to choose these as a career? Will he allow Apple to delay manufacturing until such time that there are enough people in the US trained in the various disciplines required (which would take years)?

    This is not something you can do overnight (if you can at all).
    There aren't enough people with the necessary skills because the jobs aren't here to train them. And now the training really isn't necessary because most of those jobs are going to robots.
  • Reply 68 of 133
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,739member

    AIR, the word wussy was first used by waitress Carla on the Cheers TV show -- it was clear what she meant, but it was acceptable to the censors.
    Things were different before in my opinion.

    No way would a movie like Blazing Saddles for example be allowed to be made today. Things are much more PC today, there's censorship and outrage everywhere but I feel that things are changing again. The pendulum is swinging in the other direction now, and I think that's a great thing. 

    tallest skil
  • Reply 69 of 133
    Manufacturing engineers.  Of the one million people making iPhones, how many of them are manufacturing engineers?  In the ten years time that one billion iPhones have been built, let's say a couple hundred thousand manufacturing engineers have been trained.  Maybe Donald Trump will be so kind as to get his magic pixie want and go around rural Pennsylvania and Austin Texas, and Janesville Wisconsin and say "Ding!  You're a manufacturing engineer!!  Go forth and build iPhones in the USA". So easy.

    Let's think out of the box (I hate that expression).

    What if the government(s) said:  There are many things that the private sector can do better and more efficiently than the government.  Rather than pass regulations, form bureaucracies, etc. to get the results -- wouldn't it be better to make an offer[s] they can't refuse to the private sector.

    Something like this:

    We, the government(s) will provide a safe, secure place to perform, and will offer incentives to you (private companies) to provide the services we need! *

    * This is how we get Utility companies, for example.

    So, the Jobs Czar says: Hey Apple we need jobs in Youngstown, Aliquippa, Chicago South Side...   What can you do to train and place people in these areas.

    Apple might respond:  We can train and place people in [the manufacturing of] application programs (or building and maintaining robots)...

    During the training, the students would be paid a good wage by the government(s).

    Oh, by the way, we also need facilities to train/house/feed these people -- let's get a private sector project to repair, build and maintain the necessary infrastructure.

    The fan out of new jobs/SMBs would be tremendous!


    Finally, a job returned to an outsourced [rustbelt] job does not necessarily need to be the same as the job that was lost -- it can be a better job with a better future!
    So the government funds all of this but Trump wants to cut taxes. Where does the money come from? Right now he's using the stick - tariffs - you're suggesting the carrot but the government has no carrots to give 

    1) Repatriation of over $2Trillion cash held overseas by US Corporations @ 10%

    2) Reduction of US Corporate taxes to 15%

    3) Future US Corporate taxes on overseas sales = 15% less taxes paid overseas

    4) Change the US from one of the highest-taxed business environment to be more competitive with other countries

    The above should encourage investment in the US economy by both US and Foreign companies.

    5) Reduction of individual Income taxes

    More money in citizens pockets == more money to spend and invest

    7) Thoughtful repeal and delay/replace of ACA 

    This should encourage SMBs to hire more employees 

    SMBs will also benefit from lower individual tax rates -- and may benefit by changing chapter S rules.


    I am old enough to remember when Elvis paid income taxes at 98%.  This lead to all kinds of creative tax-avoidance schemes by the millionaires who could afford it.

    JFK greatly reduced personal income taxes, as did Reagan -- the results were massive inflow of $ to the treasury instead of expensive tax-avoidance schemes.


    It comes down to this, IMO:  

    Do you want to invest this money to seed good jobs, infrastructure improvements, growth of the economy -- or big government mandates like $15/hr for burger flippers and an entitlement economy. 

    Others have said it, but JFK said it best:  A raising tide lifts all boats!


    What makes you think corporations will pay overaseas taxes just because the rate is reduced? If they are willing to avoid tax now, they'll avoid tax later too. Sure, if the tax rate is close to zero then avoidance becomes less profitable but 10-15% is not zero. This is all hypothetical anyway. There's no way Trump is raising tariffs like that. Imagine the inflation - tariffs, local manufacturing and cheap labour from immigrants all gone and more importantly, less consumer choice as most cheaper manufacturers will just leave the market. Trump won't change thing - he's a Republican
  • Reply 70 of 133
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,255member
    Someone should just explain to Trump that 99% of the value is in the software and 95% of that is made in the US. He'd love that
    ...but rights assigned to/owned by Irish subsidiaries who use it to charge high licensing fees and avoid a portion of corporate taxes in various countries? 
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 71 of 133
    apple ][ said:
    kamilton said:
    Here's the difficulty with your position on Trump's documented behavior.   If I grab your wife's hoo hah or say that about your daughter, you'd not take offense?  I don't believe you!  You'd probably deck me, as well you should.  Accordingly, if you can't see the inherent contradiction in your thinking, then you're an idiot or delusional or both.
    It was a private conversation between 2 men.

    You do know that men (straight men) do like pussy, don't you?

    Anybody who claims to be shocked by it is a liar and a hypocrite.






    I have been sitting often - after playing squash - with groups of half naked men, or in a one to one situation, and never have I or one of my friends said things like: I grab 'm by the pussy. We like women. And yes, I was shocked. 
    edited November 2016 singularityanantksundaramanomepalomine
  • Reply 72 of 133
    What makes you think corporations will pay overaseas taxes just because the rate is reduced? If they are willing to avoid tax now, they'll avoid tax later too. Sure, if the tax rate is close to zero then avoidance becomes less profitable but 10-15% is not zero. This is all hypothetical anyway. There's no way Trump is raising tariffs like that. Imagine the inflation - tariffs, local manufacturing and cheap labour from immigrants all gone and more importantly, less consumer choice as most cheaper manufacturers will just leave the market. Trump won't change thing - he's a Republican

    US Corps like Apple have been lobbying for years to repatriate their overseas profits at a reduced tax rate.  The current rate is 35% -- 10% is manna from heaven.

  • Reply 73 of 133
    Fatman said:
    Otherwise we will continue to be a nation of services - flipping burgers made on Chinese grills using Chinese meat!
    Well, it'll still be American meat, which takes a trip to China and come back on the grills. Most chickens are slaughtered in the US, and then shipped to China to process and shipped back to the US for consumption. Fish too. Not sure about Turkeys.
  • Reply 74 of 133
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,739member
    I have been sitting often - after playing squash - with groups of half naked men, or in a one to one situation, and never have I or one of my friends said things like: I grab 'm by the pussy. We like women. And yes, I was shocked. 
    I don't know what kind of life you live or what kind of friends you have, but I have had random women come up to me before and literally grab me by the c-ck (alcohol was probably involved).

    I am not shocked by somebody talking about grabbing a woman by the pussy. It can be a figure of speech. It's common talk.

    Real men sometimes talk like that. Trump is a real man. I am a real man. We're both from the same place too and that's how we talk. There is plenty of more pussy grabbing to come soon! :#
    edited November 2016 gtrtallest skilawilliams87
  • Reply 75 of 133
    apple ][ said:
    kamilton said:
    Here's the difficulty with your position on Trump's documented behavior.   If I grab your wife's hoo hah or say that about your daughter, you'd not take offense?  I don't believe you!  You'd probably deck me, as well you should.  Accordingly, if you can't see the inherent contradiction in your thinking, then you're an idiot or delusional or both.
    It was a private conversation between 2 men.

    You do know that men (straight men) do like pussy, don't you?

    Anybody who claims to be shocked by it is a liar and a hypocrite.

    I have been sitting often - after playing squash - with groups of half naked men, or in a one to one situation, and never have I or one of my friends said things like: I grab 'm by the pussy. We like women. And yes, I was shocked. 
    If that offends you, so be it -- that is your right.

    I don't know if you are in the US or not...  I am!  I've been in locker room and non-locker room groups of guys -- it's a pissing-contest kind of thing.  Some other guy sayings are: get some ass, get some cock (Southern US) -- and the other C word (which I find offensive).   I [mostly] refrain from using those kinds of words in mixed company.

    Why is it acceptable for a restaurant to call itself Hooters and TV shows to use the word wussy or package?

    I can remember when Bernard Shaw, respected CNN Journalist, criticized someone on-the-air -- paraphrasing:  "He said Fuck on live television -- it's wrong to say Fuck on live television"... oh wait...

    And on the Johnny Carson show (several versions of this, but AIR, it was Jane Fonda).  She came on the show with a cat and sat down with the cat on her lap.  Paraphrasing:  

    Jane: "Johnny, do you want to pet my Pussy?"
    Johnny: "Yes, if you'll get rid of that damn cat!"

    Then, there's Red Foxx (Sanford and Son) known for a recording of a horse race between "My Dick" and "Pussy Willow".

    http://www.thestarlitecafe.com/poems/90/poem_703583.html


    And Ray Charles...


    edited November 2016
  • Reply 76 of 133
    getvoxoa said:
    Fatman said:
    Otherwise we will continue to be a nation of services - flipping burgers made on Chinese grills using Chinese meat!
    Well, it'll still be American meat, which takes a trip to China and come back on the grills. Most chickens are slaughtered in the US, and then shipped to China to process and shipped back to the US for consumption. Fish too. Not sure about Turkeys.

    Citation?

  • Reply 77 of 133
    koopkoop Posts: 337member
    I know Trump is at least making the attempt to appear that he means well, and go to bat for American workers, but what has been explained many times over by people here and everywhere is that globalism isn't going to be reversed at this point. There's a whole lot of complicated and well meaning reasons as to why we can't go back to protectionist policies and non of it can go on a political bumper sticker. This goes to the heart of both Bernie and Trump's core beliefs about trade. I think Bernie is a great person, and would still want him to be President, but even he must know that a manufacturing revolution isn't going to happen here.

    If we're going to be forward looking, as others have said, the future of our job market going to be replaced by A.I. I think the very DNA of our economy is going to be shaken up over the next 30 years because of an A.I. revolution and even things such as currency and wealth will be turned on its head. It seems like a crazy thing to talk about, but a bit of thinking about the replacement of all workers isn't such a far fetched idea anymore.
  • Reply 78 of 133
    koop said:
    I know Trump is at least making the attempt to appear that he means well, and go to bat for American workers, but what has been explained many times over by people here and everywhere is that globalism isn't going to be reversed at this point. There's a whole lot of complicated and well meaning reasons as to why we can't go back to protectionist policies and non of it can go on a political bumper sticker. This goes to the heart of both Bernie and Trump's core beliefs about trade. I think Bernie is a great person, and would still want him to be President, but even he must know that a manufacturing revolution isn't going to happen here.

    If we're going to be forward looking, as others have said, the future of our job market going to be replaced by A.I. I think the very DNA of our economy is going to be shaken up over the next 30 years because of an A.I. revolution and even things such as currency and wealth will be turned on its head. It seems like a crazy thing to talk about, but a bit of thinking about the replacement of all workers isn't such a far fetched idea anymore.
    Globalism doesn't have to be reversed for factories to be built in the USA.  The USA just has to be the global leader in whatever is being built in those factories.

    To do that we need less government burden-- get rid of regulations and taxes and interference.

    Right now it's just too dangerous to build a factory- because you get eaten out by everyone from the local union thugs to the president who has their hand out demanding a cut.
  • Reply 79 of 133

    Manufacturing engineers.  Of the one million people making iPhones, how many of them are manufacturing engineers?  In the ten years time that one billion iPhones have been built, let's say a couple hundred thousand manufacturing engineers have been trained.  Maybe Donald Trump will be so kind as to get his magic pixie want and go around rural Pennsylvania and Austin Texas, and Janesville Wisconsin and say "Ding!  You're a manufacturing engineer!!  Go forth and build iPhones in the USA". So easy.

    Let's think out of the box (I hate that expression).

    What if the government(s) said:  There are many things that the private sector can do better and more efficiently than the government.  Rather than pass regulations, form bureaucracies, etc. to get the results -- wouldn't it be better to make an offer[s] they can't refuse to the private sector.

    Something like this:

    We, the government(s) will provide a safe, secure place to perform, and will offer incentives to you (private companies) to provide the services we need! *

    * This is how we get Utility companies, for example.

    So, the Jobs Czar says: Hey Apple we need jobs in Youngstown, Aliquippa, Chicago South Side...   What can you do to train and place people in these areas.

    Apple might respond:  We can train and place people in [the manufacturing of] application programs (or building and maintaining robots)...

    During the training, the students would be paid a good wage by the government(s).

    Oh, by the way, we also need facilities to train/house/feed these people -- let's get a private sector project to repair, build and maintain the necessary infrastructure.

    The fan out of new jobs/SMBs would be tremendous!


    Finally, a job returned to an outsourced [rustbelt] job does not necessarily need to be the same as the job that was lost -- it can be a better job with a better future!
    So the government funds all of this but Trump wants to cut taxes. Where does the money come from? Right now he's using the stick - tariffs - you're suggesting the carrot but the government has no carrots to give 

    1) Repatriation of over $2Trillion cash held overseas by US Corporations @ 10%

    2) Reduction of US Corporate taxes to 15%

    3) Future US Corporate taxes on overseas sales = 15% less taxes paid overseas

    4) Change the US from one of the highest-taxed business environment to be more competitive with other countries

    The above should encourage investment in the US economy by both US and Foreign companies.

    5) Reduction of individual Income taxes

    More money in citizens pockets == more money to spend and invest

    7) Thoughtful repeal and delay/replace of ACA 

    This should encourage SMBs to hire more employees 

    SMBs will also benefit from lower individual tax rates -- and may benefit by changing chapter S rules.


    I am old enough to remember when Elvis paid income taxes at 98%.  This lead to all kinds of creative tax-avoidance schemes by the millionaires who could afford it.

    JFK greatly reduced personal income taxes, as did Reagan -- the results were massive inflow of $ to the treasury instead of expensive tax-avoidance schemes.


    It comes down to this, IMO:  

    Do you want to invest this money to seed good jobs, infrastructure improvements, growth of the economy -- or big government mandates like $15/hr for burger flippers and an entitlement economy. 

    Others have said it, but JFK said it best:  A raising tide lifts all boats!


    What makes you think corporations will pay overaseas taxes just because the rate is reduced? If they are willing to avoid tax now, they'll avoid tax later too. Sure, if the tax rate is close to zero then avoidance becomes less profitable but 10-15% is not zero. This is all hypothetical anyway. There's no way Trump is raising tariffs like that. Imagine the inflation - tariffs, local manufacturing and cheap labour from immigrants all gone and more importantly, less consumer choice as most cheaper manufacturers will just leave the market. Trump won't change thing - he's a Republican
    The fact that Tim Cook said they would like to repatriate that money, but they couldn't justify it because charing ANY tax on it is absurd- it has already been taxed. They would use that money to pay dividends.

    Instead they borrow money here and then pay the dividends out of that.
  • Reply 80 of 133
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,823member
    evilution said:
    If you get robots to make the products, the costs shouldn't be much higher. Plus you get less leaks.
    Steven Job's ultimate vision, dating back to his time with NeXT, was to have machines building machines, so I bet Apple has been investing heavily into supply chain automation (logistics automation). The Liam is probably one of the manifestation of this.
    Tesla is investing in automation/robotics.   I doubt if Cook is.   Maybe Apple will Manufacture or assemble the MacMini her along side the MacPro as a symbolic gesture.   if Tariffs are imposed it will affect Samsung and other manufacturers too.
    edited November 2016
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