Fifth generation of Apple TV to bring 4K compatibility, little else - report

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  • Reply 61 of 101
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,784member
    jbdragon said:
    noelos said:
    This being Apple, they were probably holding back on 4K+HDR until they had some content to sell you. If it comes with an upgrade to a decent chunk of their catalogue with reasonable upgrade pricing it could be worth something.
    You won't have an option to upgrade to UHD from HD. You may purchase a new copy of what you want in UHD but not pay a small fee to upgrade to it. It's not even in Apple's control to allow you to do that.
    Nothing like buying the same movie multi times!!! From VHS to DVD to Blue-Ray, to Digital SD to HD, and now 4K. Not once have I ever seen any type of discount for owning a past copy. 4K is really just so overblown anyway. 4K is what you are watching at a movie theater. Is your TV screen that large? It's really all about Size vs Distance to Resolution. To many people already have to small of a 1080P HDTV. They think that's more then large enough, when it's not. Generally it should be larger then you think. Jumping up to 4K means you really need a larger TV on top of what you already though was as large as you could go, or the wife would let you go. Unless you really sit pretty close to that 4K TV, 8 feet away, about average you should be in the 100" screen size range!!! Seems large, but really it isn't for 4K. If you're going to get 4K, don't you want to see the better detail 4K gives you? Which you can't with a screen size to small. What most people will really notice is not the better resolution because they have to small of a 4K TV, but HDR. (High Dynamic Range) Really, the only practical, cost effective way to have a large enough 4K picture is a Front Projector.
    The only thing I've seen is if you have old Disney digital copies in SD and you sign up for Movie Rewards, Disney upgrades all your old SD movies to HD for free.

    I disagree. You can easily see the benefits of 4K with a 55" screen sitting 8 feet or so away. That has nothing to do with HDR either. I have a ton of native 4K content that isn't HDR and it's pretty incredible at how much better the resolution is compared to 1080. Same with watching UHD blu rays. Take the movie The Revenant for example. The 4K blu ray blows away the regular 1080p blu ray. 4K is not overblown at all. 
    Of course you are correct.  Having been in the TV production business a few years back I recall all the HD haters spewing the exact same tripe.  'They couldn't see the difference between NTSC (640 x 480) and HD 720p, let alone HD 1080p' and so on.  It never changes, some people just hate or refuse to accept improvements for ... well really I have no explanation other than stupidity.
    edited February 2017 Solirob55
  • Reply 62 of 101
    MathieuWacowichMathieuWacowich Posts: 10unconfirmed, member
    Great news, even if it was a forgone conclusion. Most TVs being sold now are 4K. I bought a 60" 1080P TV for my living room just before the release of the 4th Gen AppleTV. Buying the AppleTV was a no brainer at that time. I just bought a new 4k TV for the Bedroom, and not buying an AppleTV until a 4k version is released. I have to say I really can't wait for the day it arrives!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 63 of 101
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,584member
    spice-boy said:
    I bought a HDTV last year and I really love it and yes I would love to take full advantage of some 4K content, however this added feature will not alone make Apple TV a much improved device. I cannot imagine what SJ's vision for Apple TV may have been and we can only guess what that product could have looked like if Steve had lived to see this day. None of that matters really when it comes to what can be done to make AT a more useful device. We can all nitpick the details regarding the remote, annoying "sign into iTunes" request but AT's after all this time is still a "work in progress". It will unlikely become a gaming platform so why did they bother introducing that option. We are still obligated to have a big cable company service so what exactly are those little network (still ad infested) apps really good for? I use my AT to stream HBO and Netflix and pretty much nothing else.
    I'm tired of hearing people say "what Steve would have done". Nobody knows what Steve would have done. And it could very well be worse than what is being done.
    edited February 2017 SoliStrangeDaysrob55watto_cobra
  • Reply 64 of 101
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,897administrator
    Fatman said:
    A welcome addition, but not much true 4K content exists - so the importance of the lack of that feature was over emphasized (for now) . My Amazon Fire 'supports' 4K but processor still chokes with 1080p streams and finally overcame Dolby audio glitches with the most recent update.

    What Apple TV really needs is an updated remote! Lack of crucial buttons, overly sensitive touch, inconsistent app mapping to button functions and horrid ergonomics (easy to hold upside down, too thin).

    Try repeatedly flicking your thumb on the current remote, scrolling down a list of thousands of movies to reach your desired movie only to accidentally switch to another column on the Apple TV and having to start over flicking your thumb like a mad hamster. It's disgusting a remote control. 

    What Apple TV needs is a KEYBOARD remote.  It doesn't work well with current Bluetooth keyboards.

    What would be another needed upgrade is the use of MULTIPLE bluetooth remotes to allow game playing without the need to go through the network - which slows down response.

    No, but it does work great with first and 2nd/3rd generation ATV remotes. No more side-flick curses!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 65 of 101
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,784member
    melgross said:
    spice-boy said:
    I bought a HDTV last year and I really love it and yes I would love to take full advantage of some 4K content, however this added feature will not alone make Apple TV a much improved device. I cannot imagine what SJ's vision for Apple TV may have been and we can only guess what that product could have looked like if Steve had lived to see this day. None of that matters really when it comes to what can be done to make AT a more useful device. We can all nitpick the details regarding the remote, annoying "sign into iTunes" request but AT's after all this time is still a "work in progress". It will unlikely become a gaming platform so why did they bother introducing that option. We are still obligated to have a big cable company service so what exactly are those little network (still ad infested) apps really good for? I use my AT to stream HBO and Netflix and pretty much nothing else.
    I'm tired of hearing people say "what Steve would have done". Nobody knows what Steve would have done. And it could very well be worse than what is being done.
    Agreed, didn't SJ himself say to Tim 'Don't ask what I would have done' or something along those lines?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 101
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    MacPro said:
    melgross said:
    spice-boy said:
    I bought a HDTV last year and I really love it and yes I would love to take full advantage of some 4K content, however this added feature will not alone make Apple TV a much improved device. I cannot imagine what SJ's vision for Apple TV may have been and we can only guess what that product could have looked like if Steve had lived to see this day. None of that matters really when it comes to what can be done to make AT a more useful device. We can all nitpick the details regarding the remote, annoying "sign into iTunes" request but AT's after all this time is still a "work in progress". It will unlikely become a gaming platform so why did they bother introducing that option. We are still obligated to have a big cable company service so what exactly are those little network (still ad infested) apps really good for? I use my AT to stream HBO and Netflix and pretty much nothing else.
    I'm tired of hearing people say "what Steve would have done". Nobody knows what Steve would have done. And it could very well be worse than what is being done.
    Agreed, didn't SJ himself say to Tim 'Don't ask what I would have done' or something along those lines?
    He did, but I think it's more important to point out that Steve made plenty of poor decisions during his tenure as CEO when people look back with rose colored glasses.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 67 of 101
    blastdoor said:
    ATV 4 was a missed opportunity. 

    If they really are pushing services, then they should view the ATV hardware as break-even, and put the best SOC in there they can to support not just 4k video but also better games. The ATV 4 should have had the A9X. 

    This next one ought to have the A10X. 

    The games don't have to run at 4k -- fine for them to be mostly 1080p -- but with an A10X (and other more game friendly specs -- more RAM, more local storage) the AppleTV could be a pretty decent game console at a low price, in addition to all the other functions it can serve. 


    It's not a missed opportunity to Apple if it sold well. While gaming sounds cool to techies (I used to be a gamer too) it's likely not a big use case for casual users. I bought one game and never got around to playing much. Yet I use the ATV every single day for streaming video content -- the primary use case. Works great, better than the rest IMO. Love issuing Siri commands to the remote, and swipe-scrubbing.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 68 of 101
    Fix the remote.. zero ergonomic considerations as is..... No one at Apple is aware of this? .....Yet everyone who ownes one can immediately see how poorly thoughtout it is ! And fix the shallow, messy and fragmented UI !...... no centralization of favorits.. ... no cool discovery methods... no notifications for new favorite content.......no consistent UI, each app is in its own universe! Terrible use of screen real estate... the list goes on.. Whats up with these half baked products Apple... ( the list does not stop at appletv)..
    brucemc
  • Reply 69 of 101
    Soli said:
    eightzero said:
    Fatman said:

    What Apple TV really needs is an updated remote! Lack of crucial buttons, overly sensitive touch, inconsistent app mapping to button functions and horrid ergonomics (easy to hold upside down, too thin).
    The best thing I can say about the ATV remote is that I tolerate it. IMO, it is Apple's worst design failure in recent memory.
    I think it's great except for the core issue that the original "hock puck" mouse had—you can't easily tell which end is front or back. I put an eleastic hair and on the palm end so I can more quickly orient it.
    Ditto -- the symmetry is a drag and I was forced to put a hair tie around one end. But the functionality of the Siri button, and the touch surface is very good. I hardly use my Harmony One any more, since it doesnt have touch-scrubbing.
    watto_cobrawilliamlondon
  • Reply 70 of 101
    sog35 said:
    jbdragon said:
    noelos said:
    This being Apple, they were probably holding back on 4K+HDR until they had some content to sell you. If it comes with an upgrade to a decent chunk of their catalogue with reasonable upgrade pricing it could be worth something.
    You won't have an option to upgrade to UHD from HD. You may purchase a new copy of what you want in UHD but not pay a small fee to upgrade to it. It's not even in Apple's control to allow you to do that.
    Nothing like buying the same movie multi times!!! From VHS to DVD to Blue-Ray, to Digital SD to HD, and now 4K. Not once have I ever seen any type of discount for owning a past copy. 4K is really just so overblown anyway. 4K is what you are watching at a movie theater. Is your TV screen that large? It's really all about Size vs Distance to Resolution. To many people already have to small of a 1080P HDTV. They think that's more then large enough, when it's not. Generally it should be larger then you think. Jumping up to 4K means you really need a larger TV on top of what you already though was as large as you could go, or the wife would let you go. Unless you really sit pretty close to that 4K TV, 8 feet away, about average you should be in the 100" screen size range!!! Seems large, but really it isn't for 4K. If you're going to get 4K, don't you want to see the better detail 4K gives you? Which you can't with a screen size to small. What most people will really notice is not the better resolution because they have to small of a 4K TV, but HDR. (High Dynamic Range) Really, the only practical, cost effective way to have a large enough 4K picture is a Front Projector.
    The only thing I've seen is if you have old Disney digital copies in SD and you sign up for Movie Rewards, Disney upgrades all your old SD movies to HD for free.

    I disagree. You can easily see the benefits of 4K with a 55" screen sitting 8 feet or so away. That has nothing to do with HDR either. I have a ton of native 4K content that isn't HDR and it's pretty incredible at how much better the resolution is compared to 1080. Same with watching UHD blu rays. Take the movie The Revenant for example. The 4K blu ray blows away the regular 1080p blu ray. 4K is not overblown at all. 
    8 feet away from a 55 inch screen is pretty damn close.

    So did you watch the 1080p version of Revenant on the same 4k TV?

    And please note that streaming 4k will be much lower quality than the 4k bluray you saw.
    I don't like sitting far away from a TV. I usually sit close when I'm gaming so I always end up watching movies that close as well. Nope. I watched it on a 1080p TV since it would have been upscaled on my 4K tv. 

    Yep. 4K streaming I've seen on Netflix, Amazon, etc looks decent, but doesn't compare to watching native 4K or UHD blu rays. FYI, here is where I've downloaded some 4K demo content if anyone is interested:

    http://demo-uhd3d.com/
  • Reply 71 of 101
    macxpress said:

    blastdoor said:
    ATV 4 was a missed opportunity. 

    If they really are pushing services, then they should view the ATV hardware as break-even, and put the best SOC in there they can to support not just 4k video but also better games. The ATV 4 should have had the A9X. 

    This next one ought to have the A10X. 

    The games don't have to run at 4k -- fine for them to be mostly 1080p -- but with an A10X (and other more game friendly specs -- more RAM, more local storage) the AppleTV could be a pretty decent game console at a low price, in addition to all the other functions it can serve. 


    In the words of @randominternetperson "Why not put in a TB of ram and octo-processors and 12 USB-A ports using that logic.  Everything is a trade off." I guess were all just stupid and should just accept that Apple puts 3yrs old technology in a new box and sells it as new. 

    If Apple did this with an iPhone or a Mac the god damn world would have a meltdown! 
    The SoC in the 4th gen was not 3 years old. 15 months ago 4k content was a novelty (IMO it still is today) and most normals just didn't care about it. It's like complaining iPhone didn't have NFC because some Android models did -- so what, nobody cared. I still don't care today since my 1080p plasma Panasonic is a fine set and I have no problems with it....I suspect there are a kajillion people in my boat who don't feel the need to buy yet another new TV just because there's some new high-end spec.

    Apple is not in a rush to win the spec wars. Never has been.
    Soliwatto_cobrawilliamlondon
  • Reply 72 of 101

    Fix the remote.. zero ergonomic considerations as is..... No one at Apple is aware of this? .....Yet everyone who ownes one can immediately see how poorly thoughtout it is ! And fix the shallow, messy and fragmented UI !...... no centralization of favorits.. ... no cool discovery methods... no notifications for new favorite content.......no consistent UI, each app is in its own universe! Terrible use of screen real estate... the list goes on.. Whats up with these half baked products Apple... ( the list does not stop at appletv)..
    While the remote needs improvement, the UI of ATV is fine. When you talk of apps you're talking about app developers -- not Apple. It's up the app devs to make their apps not suck. I happen to think most of them make poor use of their screen estate too -- take the HBO app for example and you can see all these small text blocks surrounded by empty space, forcing me to squint despite the room to have doubled the size of the type...Makes no sense. Lots of apps like that. I'm not sure why they don't make their text bigger.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 73 of 101
    Sounds good to me. I held out on buying Gen4 AppleTV because I was waiting for 4K.
  • Reply 74 of 101
    zimmiezimmie Posts: 651member
    mike1 said:
    noelos said:
    This being Apple, they were probably holding back on 4K+HDR until they had some content to sell you. If it comes with an upgrade to a decent chunk of their catalogue with reasonable upgrade pricing it could be worth something.
    You won't have an option to upgrade to UHD from HD. You may purchase a new copy of what you want in UHD but not pay a small fee to upgrade to it. It's not even in Apple's control to allow you to do that.
    They did with music a few years back. Upgraded my whole downloaded catalog for pennies per track.
    You payed more to free your music from DRM, not for better upgraded quality. Show me anywhere with any of the other streaming services, like Vudu, where you can have the HD version and upgrade to the UHD version when it's available. You can't because it doesn't exist and won't exist with Apple all of a sudden magically.
    The iTunes Plus upgrade gave you DRM-free versions of tracks, but they were also 256 kbps ABR as opposed to the original 128 kbps ABR.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 75 of 101
    Fatman said:
    A welcome addition, but not much true 4K content exists - so the importance of the lack of that feature was over emphasized (for now) . My Amazon Fire 'supports' 4K but processor still chokes with 1080p streams and finally overcame Dolby audio glitches with the most recent update.

    What Apple TV really needs is an updated remote! Lack of crucial buttons, overly sensitive touch, inconsistent app mapping to button functions and horrid ergonomics (easy to hold upside down, too thin).
    Yeah the remote is a ergonomically ridiculous. So imagine a case on it. What i did. Amazon... https://www.amazon.com/Generation-Akwox-Silicone-Controller-Lanyard/dp/B01EN4LB9W/ref=s9_simh_gw_g23_i4_r?_encoding=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=92E7K28XCGQ38TXFKD2J&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=f58829ef-ff4e-4868-b5c8-fe8c3bd9f769&pf_rd_i=desktop
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 76 of 101
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    mstrmac said:
    Fatman said:
    A welcome addition, but not much true 4K content exists - so the importance of the lack of that feature was over emphasized (for now) . My Amazon Fire 'supports' 4K but processor still chokes with 1080p streams and finally overcame Dolby audio glitches with the most recent update.

    What Apple TV really needs is an updated remote! Lack of crucial buttons, overly sensitive touch, inconsistent app mapping to button functions and horrid ergonomics (easy to hold upside down, too thin).
    Yeah the remote is a ergonomically ridiculous. So imagine a case on it. What i did. Amazon... https://www.amazon.com/Generation-Akwox-Silicone-Controller-Lanyard/dp/B01EN4LB9W/ref=s9_simh_gw_g23_i4_r
    I know someone that dropped their remote and the glass touch sensor cracked, so this could help for those with hard floor who are clumsy. I would prefer if this case wasn't the same shape on both ends. I understand that it covers the bottom half of the top, but I'd also like the thickness/shape to be different from the bottom to top.
  • Reply 77 of 101
    cali said:
    If Apple decides to update iTunes with 4k this Apple TV will release same day as content. 
    And if they do 2160 content, will that mean iTunes gets updated to support h.265?
  • Reply 78 of 101
    MplsP said:
    A bump in resolution hardly seems to justify an entirely new version, but if you think about it, 4K resolution is a requirement to keep it a viable product and that mostly likely needs new display hardware. Otherwise, Apple TV is 90% software, so if they weren't running into memory or processor issues they could just update the firmware.
    Right, but then Apple couldn't sell you another box if they just upgraded firmware. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 79 of 101
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    smaffei said:
    MplsP said:
    A bump in resolution hardly seems to justify an entirely new version, but if you think about it, 4K resolution is a requirement to keep it a viable product and that mostly likely needs new display hardware. Otherwise, Apple TV is 90% software, so if they weren't running into memory or processor issues they could just update the firmware.
    Right, but then Apple couldn't sell you another box if they just upgraded firmware. 
    Do you honestly believe that all it takes to support 4K@60+ on the 4th gen Apple TV without usability issues is an upgrade to the firmware?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 80 of 101
    Soli said:
    Do you honestly believe that all it takes to support 4K@60+ on the 4th gen Apple TV without usability issues is an upgrade to the firmware?
    Remember that the 4 has an A8, which is the same chip as the iPhone 6, originally stated to be capable of 2160 playback… oh, you said 60 FPS. You’re right; it can’t do that. 
    Soli
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