iMac in the title, but I somehow missed any discussion in the article. We need a new iMac. (might be the only ones out there that would say so). Come on, iMac with Touch Bar keyboard. Bring it on.
I think a lot of us would like to see that, but I think the path is more difficult compared to the MBP since I imagine we're talking about a wireless keyboard. With the MBP, it can all be wired together and use the same battery as the MBP for the OLED touch bar display. This likely means a beefier wireless keyboard for a larger battery and higher cost.
Then we have to consider the video data from the Mac to the touch bar there's a greatly increases the data between the keyboard and Mac. Will BT be enough or will it have to be paired with WiFi for high-speed? This will also means a beefier battery and higher cost.
Then you have potential security issues with Touch ID and Apple Pay from a peripheral device to the Mac. Now, this one I think is the easiest hurdle because Apple already allows both remote login and Apple Pay to work via the Mac with an Apple Watch. That would effectively be a lateral move, and since we know the T1-chip uses an OS X core based on watchOS, that seems doable (to put it lightly).
Additionally, now that the W1-series chip exists, would they use that for security and pairing, or would they add wireless functionality to the T1-chip? Would it still be called a T1-chip? Wouldn't this effectively be closer to the S-series in the Watch?
Finally, how much are you willing to pay for this keyboard that runs OS X, has a display, Touch ID, Apple Pay, and a battery that lasts (hopefully) months at a time between charging via Lightning? I'm think it would be at least double what it is now.
Why does this even matter? The PC market means nothing. Its shrinking every year.
Look 10 years in the future. Do you see the PC market growing? HELL NO.
The future is iPad/iPhone/Wearbles. That's where Apple will invest in.
So because one area of Apple's business is more popular than another Apple should drop it? Brilliant¡
In the first three months of their 2017 calendar they sold 5.3 million Macs for a revenue and profit in the billions. Do you even know how much that would hurt AAPL if that were to vanish because, as you put it, "the PC market means nothing"?
You sound just like asshat pundits, like John C. Dvorak, that said Apple should abandon the Mac because the iPod was so popular and growing.
PS: The iPad has been decreasing for years, so Apple should abandon that, too, according to your logic.
Well, his usual hyperbole aside, there is a valid question about "how much" Apple would invest in the Mac line. Does it include to the level of Apple's own A-Series designed into packages for the Mac, with the issues of moving to an ARM architecture? Or will the investment be modest h/w enhancements with continuing s/w enhancements, but grounded in the Intel chipset?
I hope for the former, but am concerned it may the latter.
As for where Apple would focus more? While the iPad has been dropping from its peak sales, there is some thought that this is mostly 7.9" Mini models, and that the 9.7" has remained pretty solid. And even with the sales decline, the iPad installed base might be double the Mac already. Apple certainly advertises the iPad more than the Mac. On the question of investment priorities, it is not that the Mac line is dropped, it is just that it isn't invested in as the "future of computing".
1) I hope that we see an Apple-design chip for the Mac. I would expect it to be called something other than A-series, since we're already at 4 different ARM-baed chips/SoCs/PoPs/SIPs (A-series, W-series, T-series, W-series). M-series?
M is the motion coprocessor. Not a major line, and has been incorporated into the A die, but still, makes more sense to choose a different letter.
Also you've got W twice You're missing the S series, which is in the Apple Watch.
1) Thanks. I clearly forgot about the motion coprocessor.
2) Yes, S-series for Watch. So what what other naming conventions do you think they'd use, if any?
The problem, as I see it, is Intel has too much invested in their architecture processes, and an obsession with shrinking dies that we all knew were going to hit a brick wall at some point due to physics. While smaller die size has its advantages, making it a necessary step in the architecture process was a mistake. Intel seemed to have worked this out when they abandoned their Tick-Tock cycle, but they don't really seem to have been prepared for it.
I suspect they really weren't ready to go from a new architecture every 2 years, to one every year. This is a business process problem, not a technical one as such - the main technical issue is overcoming the problems with the 10nm manufacturing process, redesigning the architecture on a faster scale while they do that is a matter of resource management.
What this means for Apple is that they're kind of stuck. As long as Intel are having problems delivering new processors, Apple (and the other PC manufacturers) have to wait. There is a risk they'll fall into the trap of waiting for the next thing - why go with Kaby Lake now if Cannon Lake is due in 6 months? Are the Xeon versions of the chips even ready yet?
I agree that Apple need to update their desktop line soon. The mini and the Pro are particularly old, and they should either release an update or drop them. (Tim keeps saying they're not dropping the Pro, so they should at least speed-bump them.) I can only presume the reason for not doing so is that they have something internally that is holding them up - whether it's a new design, or sorting out implementing a Touch Bar on a desktop, or whatever.
Why not put Kaby lake chips in the iMac? You know, current gen products?
Who said they weren't going to do this?
I think some people up thread said it -- misreading this article's main point about Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake not being able to support the LPDDR4 RAM that would allow for 32 GB in the MacBook Pro. They took it to mean there would be no refresh at all.
Apple will do a refresh this year, but it still won't support 32GB RAM. At least that's what the article says.
32G ram, GTX 1080 fast video, 17.3" 4K display, unibody aluminum...
And oh yes I believe one can also change drive(s), ram, etc...
I would certainly help if this article would explain why they say "Apple is unexpected to equip a MacBook Pro with a new RAM controller allowing for DDR4 support anytime soon." Weird editing/grammar failure aside, I presume that to mean that they would have to redesign the whole machine to allow it to support 32GB of DDR4, and Apple is unlikely to do that. They are far more likely to stick with the current design until LPDDR4 support is possible, which means no 32GB MacBook Pro until the middle of next year.
So you've probably got another year of happy trolling ahead... Have fun!
The interesting thing here is that Ryzen is a better chip than anything intel has when you consider the iMac. Once Ryzen based APUs come out most of Apples needs will be covered.
Why not put Kaby lake chips in the iMac? You know, current gen products?
Who said they weren't going to do this?
I think some people up thread said it -- misreading this article's main point about Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake not being able to support the LPDDR4 RAM that would allow for 32 GB in the MacBook Pro. They took it to mean there would be no refresh at all.
Apple will do a refresh this year, but it still won't support 32GB RAM. At least that's what the article says.
The iMac could still use the more power hungry controller that supports DDR4 RAM. Its not like the iMac needs battery life. Its just a matter of whether or not Apple thinks its using too much power in general. So rather than sacrifice a little more power usage, they'll probably just use the Kaby Lake with the DDR3 controller.
Why not put Kaby lake chips in the iMac? You know, current gen products?
Who said they weren't going to do this?
I think some people up thread said it -- misreading this article's main point about Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake not being able to support the LPDDR4 RAM that would allow for 32 GB in the MacBook Pro. They took it to mean there would be no refresh at all.
Apple will do a refresh this year, but it still won't support 32GB RAM. At least that's what the article says.
The iMac could still use the more power hungry controller that supports DDR4 RAM. Its not like the iMac needs battery life. Its just a matter of whether or not Apple thinks its using too much power in general. So rather than sacrifice a little more power usage, they'll probably just use the Kaby Lake with the DDR3 controller.
You lost me. The iMac uses desktop-class CPUs and supports up to 64 GiB RAM.
Damn, Apple. If you don't update your machines, at least lower the prices for the old models you are selling!
Although, I'm not buying either way.
If your sales aren't suffering, who cares what the posters on these forums say! Keep those margins high and keep increasing the dividend on the stocks!
Why not put Kaby lake chips in the iMac? You know, current gen products?
Who said they weren't going to do this?
I think some people up thread said it -- misreading this article's main point about Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake not being able to support the LPDDR4 RAM that would allow for 32 GB in the MacBook Pro. They took it to mean there would be no refresh at all.
Apple will do a refresh this year, but it still won't support 32GB RAM. At least that's what the article says.
The iMac could still use the more power hungry controller that supports DDR4 RAM. Its not like the iMac needs battery life. Its just a matter of whether or not Apple thinks its using too much power in general. So rather than sacrifice a little more power usage, they'll probably just use the Kaby Lake with the DDR3 controller.
You lost me. The iMac uses desktop-class CPUs and supports up to 64 GiB RAM.
Yeah you're right...I don't know what the hell I was thinking.
x86 is dead. Has been for twenty years.
I reckon it will be less that five years before Apple is introducing Macs with Apple-designed processors running them. The iPad platform certainly is indicating substantial encroachments on Wintel, and x86 never really had a future. I wonder if Intel will form a deeper partnership with Apple...
Apple needs to reinvest engineering resource into the Mac. It's as healthy a business as its ever been, just outshined by the lower cost iOS devices.
Make the Mac great again. Not simply a commodity PC with taste.
The iMac 5k was a great start, reengineerig what was normally impossible to get a 5k display.
Im sure they could build a CPU companion to handle 64 GB RAM as well.
An A series CPU would be lame. Unless they used 4-8 of them at once.
Better to build en entirely separate chip or stay the course with PC CPUs, but with extra silicon help when needed.
The iPad is not a worthy replacement for the Mac. I have an iPad, iPhone, and iPad Pro. It's simply not. The Mac is superior. The only way that I could be is if they started dumbing down the Mac and that would be a shame to resort to that kind of deceitful manipulation just to push a corporate line. Better to change the line.
The ipad is great. The Mac is great and could be something people really get into like never before if Apple simply invested in it like they do iOS.
An A series CPU would be lame. Unless they used 4-8 of them at once.
At ~4W for the A9X, 4 of them would be, obviously, ~16W. 8 would get you a ~32W draw for your CPU grid (call it 35W after power leakage). Hmm… where have we seen 35W before? Oh, right, the newest set of low end TDP Intel chips! I used to not be a fan of a shift to ARM on the desktop (still not convinced at all), but it doesn't seem like it's impossible to do. iMac size case, 8 A10 (or equivalent) in some sort of ludicrously engineered configuration, active cooling system… I don't know. It MIGHT be possible.
I'm just afraid that Apple will be reducing their machines' capabilities to be no better than the absolute bare minimum. Fucking Facebook stereotype…
x86 is dead. Has been for twenty years.
I reckon it will be less that five years before Apple is introducing Macs with Apple-designed processors running them. The iPad platform certainly is indicating substantial encroachments on Wintel, and x86 never really had a future. I wonder if Intel will form a deeper partnership with Apple...
I agree, I'm surprised we haven't seen Apple as yet relegate the x86 to an applications processor and move the GPU into the central position with an Apple home grown platform hub.
Also Given how efficiently Apple build platforms for iDevices I wonder if they couldn't build a far better platform hub on their own, even using the current diagram, then use that extra thermal and energy budget to use higher spec'd CPU's.
I remember when Apple (under Steve) would do these small updates to their hardware. And then, we'd get a really cool innovative, forward thinking update that got everyone excited. It's been a long time since I've been excited about the iMac. The MacBook Pro was pretty cool with that new strip, but it didn't include an impressive speed update.
It sounds like Apple is heading to an impressive, shake-up-the-industry iPhone 8 update. We'll see. I'd love to see Apple pull a surprise with a new iMac, completely redesigned with no chin, pushing the boundaries with Canon-lake or whatever and perhaps other innovative supporting chips.
I'm not an engineer so I'm probably being unrealistic, but I don't think Apple is feeling the heat to come out with really incredible products. The delays between updates is depressing. And I agree that much of the slowdown is due to the success of iOS products.
For what it's worth, I would rather buy iMacs over time than any kind of Mac Pro. I knew that thing would lag very shortly after its intro, but keep the huge price.
How Apple manages to keep its prices so high when their hardware slips out of date blows my mind.
32G ram, GTX 1080 fast video, 17.3" 4K display, unibody aluminum...
And oh yes I believe one can also change drive(s), ram, etc...
I would certainly help if this article would explain why they say "Apple is unexpected to equip a MacBook Pro with a new RAM controller allowing for DDR4 support anytime soon." Weird editing/grammar failure aside, I presume that to mean that they would have to redesign the whole machine to allow it to support 32GB of DDR4, and Apple is unlikely to do that. They are far more likely to stick with the current design until LPDDR4 support is possible, which means no 32GB MacBook Pro until the middle of next year.
So you've probably got another year of happy trolling ahead... Have fun!
Happy trolling ahead? Really ? A FYI on 32G ram 4k laptop = Troll ? Suffice it to say there would seem technically possible options for 32G laptops with high speed graphics, in cnc aluminum enclosures no less... I expect battery life and heat might be (severe?) trade offs decided in advance, and I'm no fan of windoze, but the options would seem possible...
Are we honestly content with the current pro Mac hardware and software options ? Do we like Photos image tagging always on and no opt out ? Safari's latest update now shows frequently visited websites even when private browsing is selected ? How is that private ? Is a trickle down (AI ready?) privacy assault going on and on and on...?
The latest 5K LG monitor & adapters are running @ 2.5 star reviews, and so Apple raises the price...? Hmmm...
This right here is why Apple can't deliver laptops that meet their objectives... because Intel is wrecking their roadmap. Unfortunately there isn't a better option here EXCEPT of course... Apple. Slap a full powered quad core A11X in a laptop and lets see what happens!
5 years ago I would have been squeamish.
But today is a different story. I have completely replaced all my need for exchange/outlook and I read XLSX/DOCX files through google docs half the time (the other half I'm pretty sure Libreoffice could suffice - most of our documentation is done on an online doc management tool anyway - gdocs or a half dozen others)
Now - I notice that JS intensive sites render faster on my iPhone7 than on my old workhorse 2010 MBP. That's pretty amazing.
Well I hope the Coffee Lake updated MBPs release a little later this year. I missed the 2-month window since the MBP released to buy it and now am in the phase where I'd rather wait for the next upgrade.
Well I hope the Coffee Lake updated MBPs release a little later this year. I missed the 2-month window since the MBP released to buy it and now am in the phase where I'd rather wait for the next upgrade.
It's a little frustrating though, waiting!
I had an order in for the new MBP but I got tired of waiting—which is partially my fault for having changed my order, which put me at the back of the queue. I'm now going to hold off for the next update, which will also be at least $200 less expensive, if the history of the MBP's raising the price for a new casing design and adding major innovations is any indicator.
Comments
Then we have to consider the video data from the Mac to the touch bar there's a greatly increases the data between the keyboard and Mac. Will BT be enough or will it have to be paired with WiFi for high-speed? This will also means a beefier battery and higher cost.
Then you have potential security issues with Touch ID and Apple Pay from a peripheral device to the Mac. Now, this one I think is the easiest hurdle because Apple already allows both remote login and Apple Pay to work via the Mac with an Apple Watch. That would effectively be a lateral move, and since we know the T1-chip uses an OS X core based on watchOS, that seems doable (to put it lightly).
Additionally, now that the W1-series chip exists, would they use that for security and pairing, or would they add wireless functionality to the T1-chip? Would it still be called a T1-chip? Wouldn't this effectively be closer to the S-series in the Watch?
Finally, how much are you willing to pay for this keyboard that runs OS X, has a display, Touch ID, Apple Pay, and a battery that lasts (hopefully) months at a time between charging via Lightning? I'm think it would be at least double what it is now.
X is always sexy. And reminds me of X704
The problem, as I see it, is Intel has too much invested in their architecture processes, and an obsession with shrinking dies that we all knew were going to hit a brick wall at some point due to physics. While smaller die size has its advantages, making it a necessary step in the architecture process was a mistake. Intel seemed to have worked this out when they abandoned their Tick-Tock cycle, but they don't really seem to have been prepared for it.
I suspect they really weren't ready to go from a new architecture every 2 years, to one every year. This is a business process problem, not a technical one as such - the main technical issue is overcoming the problems with the 10nm manufacturing process, redesigning the architecture on a faster scale while they do that is a matter of resource management.
What this means for Apple is that they're kind of stuck. As long as Intel are having problems delivering new processors, Apple (and the other PC manufacturers) have to wait. There is a risk they'll fall into the trap of waiting for the next thing - why go with Kaby Lake now if Cannon Lake is due in 6 months? Are the Xeon versions of the chips even ready yet?
I agree that Apple need to update their desktop line soon. The mini and the Pro are particularly old, and they should either release an update or drop them. (Tim keeps saying they're not dropping the Pro, so they should at least speed-bump them.) I can only presume the reason for not doing so is that they have something internally that is holding them up - whether it's a new design, or sorting out implementing a Touch Bar on a desktop, or whatever.
32G ram, GTX 1080 fast video, 17.3" 4K display, unibody aluminum...
And oh yes I believe one can also change drive(s), ram, etc...
Apple will do a refresh this year, but it still won't support 32GB RAM. At least that's what the article says.
So you've probably got another year of happy trolling ahead... Have fun!
Although, I'm not buying either way.
If your sales aren't suffering, who cares what the posters on these forums say! Keep those margins high and keep increasing the dividend on the stocks!
Make the Mac great again. Not simply a commodity PC with taste.
The iMac 5k was a great start, reengineerig what was normally impossible to get a 5k display.
Im sure they could build a CPU companion to handle 64 GB RAM as well.
An A series CPU would be lame. Unless they used 4-8 of them at once.
Better to build en entirely separate chip or stay the course with PC CPUs, but with extra silicon help when needed.
The iPad is not a worthy replacement for the Mac. I have an iPad, iPhone, and iPad Pro. It's simply not. The Mac is superior. The only way that I could be is if they started dumbing down the Mac and that would be a shame to resort to that kind of deceitful manipulation just to push a corporate line. Better to change the line.
The ipad is great. The Mac is great and could be something people really get into like never before if Apple simply invested in it like they do iOS.
Love to see see it happen.
I'm just afraid that Apple will be reducing their machines' capabilities to be no better than the absolute bare minimum. Fucking Facebook stereotype…
I agree, I'm surprised we haven't seen Apple as yet relegate the x86 to an applications processor and move the GPU into the central position with an Apple home grown platform hub.
Also Given how efficiently Apple build platforms for iDevices I wonder if they couldn't build a far better platform hub on their own, even using the current diagram, then use that extra thermal and energy budget to use higher spec'd CPU's.
It sounds like Apple is heading to an impressive, shake-up-the-industry iPhone 8 update. We'll see. I'd love to see Apple pull a surprise with a new iMac, completely redesigned with no chin, pushing the boundaries with Canon-lake or whatever and perhaps other innovative supporting chips.
I'm not an engineer so I'm probably being unrealistic, but I don't think Apple is feeling the heat to come out with really incredible products. The delays between updates is depressing. And I agree that much of the slowdown is due to the success of iOS products.
For what it's worth, I would rather buy iMacs over time than any kind of Mac Pro. I knew that thing would lag very shortly after its intro, but keep the huge price.
How Apple manages to keep its prices so high when their hardware slips out of date blows my mind.
Suffice it to say there would seem technically possible options for 32G laptops with high speed graphics, in cnc aluminum enclosures no less...
I expect battery life and heat might be (severe?) trade offs decided in advance, and I'm no fan of windoze, but the options would seem possible...
Are we honestly content with the current pro Mac hardware and software options ?
Do we like Photos image tagging always on and no opt out ?
Safari's latest update now shows frequently visited websites even when private browsing is selected ?
How is that private ? Is a trickle down (AI ready?) privacy assault going on and on and on...?
The latest 5K LG monitor & adapters are running @ 2.5 star reviews, and so Apple raises the price...? Hmmm...
Well I hope the Coffee Lake updated MBPs release a little later this year. I missed the 2-month window since the MBP released to buy it and now am in the phase where I'd rather wait for the next upgrade.
It's a little frustrating though, waiting!