Apple's Siri-based Echo competitor rumored to borrow design cues from Mac Pro, could arriv...

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  • Reply 41 of 86
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,394member
    Soli said:

    The last time I talked about Echo someone on this forum said that a real cook would know how the answers to any measurement question without asking.
    And I was told that a real cook was someone who would come back from the ER with his hand bandaged, and finish the second seating.

     :) 
    And I was told that a real cook was someone with proper knife skills. :)
  • Reply 42 of 86
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,394member

    k2kw said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?


    Are you trying to say that Siri is in any way useful to you for anything? What am I doing wrong then? It does not even understand names in my Contacts properly, not to mention names in Mail, Notes, Reminders, Facebook List, etc.. 99% of the answers are "I found this on the web for you". Have you ever tried to set up a meeting in your calendar: ""Hey Siri, please set up a appointment in my calendar for a meeting with Susan at 8 am on Thursday", I set up "meeting" in your calendar.... Ask Siri to play, say, music from The Beatles while off-line. Instead of playing the songs you have on your phone, its spins forever searching Apple Music.
    When asked what the score was of the last game Borussia Dortmund played, it gives you last week's Bundesliga score but not the previous day's Champions' League game. And so it goes on.
    I use Siri every day. It's very useful. I set calendar entries, play music, do general searches for random questions, ask for sports and movie info, reply to messages, and set reminders in some form or another every day.

    I have no idea what you could be doing wrong, but when you make a comment like "[Siri] does not even understand names in my Contacts properly," I'm not certain you know the difference between the Siri service and the HW that has to first record your audio before being converted to text and then analyzed, like with the limited microphone on the iPhone as compared to the Echo. Even between the Echo and Echo Dot, which also has a far-field mic setup, I can tell there's a difference in how clear I need to be for the two Echo products to properly understand me.

    If you're talking about German as per your Borussia Dortmund reference, that's a language I've never tested. Siri's AI might not be as advanced for the language, there could be structural issues with the language that make it harder to parse, or more dialects to contend with that make it harder to be universal. I can only talk about speaking American English.


    PS: I only watched the first part of that video and that could be what the mic is picking up, but it's likely an ongoing issue with Maps intelligence—which isn't about Siri. Maps has a way or picking an incorrect location thousands of miles away even when typing it in.
    Whether Siri, Maps, or something with the hardware,  this video illustrates why Apple shouldn't be developing a car.   Maps and Siri have been out for five years or more - Apple really needs to get the basics working first.   The thought of riding in an Apple controlled car is frightening.
    Both Maps and Siri are hugely improved over 5 years ago.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 86
    zoetmb said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    I can.   I say "find pizza near me" (in Queens, NY) and it finds pizza places in California.
    How does that work? I just asked Siri that here in the middle of Jokelahoma, and it found 15 results within 3 miles -- no California or anywhere else. There is no wayin hell they have Jokelahoma figured out better than CA and NYC.

    While we're doing anecdotes, I use Siri all the time to get directions to things as well as dictate and send messages to my wife. The only time I've had an issue is when I bought a new smaller car and the road noise became a problem, but I can get around that by waiting for quieter roads or when I stop at a red light.

    If Siri can understand my Oklahoma drawl, I'm sure it should understand a New York or other accent, too. I'm sure it can have issues with that, however all of these personal assistants can only get better understanding over time now. The purchase of Workflow and the tight integration of Siri into many subsystems of iOS and MacOS are going to make for some great stuff and with a lot less privacy issues as Apple works to keep as much exact personal info from being transmitted as possible. I prefer their approach of not having some capabilities at the moment to other companies just sending everything willy-nilly with the hope that one day they will get the privacy issues in check.
    edited April 2017 macpluspluswatto_cobrafastasleep
  • Reply 44 of 86
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    zoetmb said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    I can.   I say "find pizza near me" (in Queens, NY) and it finds pizza places in California.  I tell it to map an address and instead of looking for the closest place with that address, it finds one far away.
    This has already been discussed. You're talking about using Maps. While you're invoking a voice command to make the request, this issue is with Maps, not with Siri, as noted by the text-based input that also can result in wildly incorrectly results, and I haven't seen that sort of issue in a very long time. Can you show us screenshots of the aforementioned command showing that Maps knows you're in Queens but is picking restaurants in California?
    edited April 2017 pscooter63watto_cobrafastasleep
  • Reply 45 of 86
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member

    k2kw said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?


    Are you trying to say that Siri is in any way useful to you for anything? What am I doing wrong then? It does not even understand names in my Contacts properly, not to mention names in Mail, Notes, Reminders, Facebook List, etc.. 99% of the answers are "I found this on the web for you". Have you ever tried to set up a meeting in your calendar: ""Hey Siri, please set up a appointment in my calendar for a meeting with Susan at 8 am on Thursday", I set up "meeting" in your calendar.... Ask Siri to play, say, music from The Beatles while off-line. Instead of playing the songs you have on your phone, its spins forever searching Apple Music.
    When asked what the score was of the last game Borussia Dortmund played, it gives you last week's Bundesliga score but not the previous day's Champions' League game. And so it goes on.
    I use Siri every day. It's very useful. I set calendar entries, play music, do general searches for random questions, ask for sports and movie info, reply to messages, and set reminders in some form or another every day.

    I have no idea what you could be doing wrong, but when you make a comment like "[Siri] does not even understand names in my Contacts properly," I'm not certain you know the difference between the Siri service and the HW that has to first record your audio before being converted to text and then analyzed, like with the limited microphone on the iPhone as compared to the Echo. Even between the Echo and Echo Dot, which also has a far-field mic setup, I can tell there's a difference in how clear I need to be for the two Echo products to properly understand me.

    If you're talking about German as per your Borussia Dortmund reference, that's a language I've never tested. Siri's AI might not be as advanced for the language, there could be structural issues with the language that make it harder to parse, or more dialects to contend with that make it harder to be universal. I can only talk about speaking American English.


    PS: I only watched the first part of that video and that could be what the mic is picking up, but it's likely an ongoing issue with Maps intelligence—which isn't about Siri. Maps has a way or picking an incorrect location thousands of miles away even when typing it in.
    Whether Siri, Maps, or something with the hardware,  this video illustrates why Apple shouldn't be developing a car.   Maps and Siri have been out for five years or more - Apple really needs to get the basics working first.   The thought of riding in an Apple controlled car is frightening.
    The basics of a car have nothing to do with a speech-to-text digital personal assistant.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobrafastasleep
  • Reply 46 of 86
    irnchriz said:

    If I lived in the same house as you, you would be trying to pull the Amazon echo out of your ass.  Imagine listening to all of that inane shit every day...
    If you lived in the same house as me, it would be cowering naked in the basement corner, trying to suppress a Tourettes-like PTSD tick as you smear “I will not be adolescently rude and solipsistic with my betters… I will not be adolescently rude and solipsistic with my betters…” on the blackboard beside your fetid collar chain.

    Now, back to courteous conversations on the utility of voice-activated UI/UX's shall we, all adults of good cheer?
    gatorguypscooter63
  • Reply 47 of 86
    Didn't the Mac Pro end up being an embarrassing mistake for Apple? They are either foolish to release another product with the same design, or they are trying to spin a positive image onto the design.
    I like the Mac Pro. The cylindrical design allowed for a really imaginative cooling system that makes the thing really, really quiet. It may have been a mistake to expect the market to recognize the benefits of a new, much more flexible and logical core-satellite paradigm, but I certainly wouldn't call it embarrassing.

    pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 86
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    zoetmb said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    I can.   I say "find pizza near me" (in Queens, NY) and it finds pizza places in California.  I tell it to map an address and instead of looking for the closest place with that address, it finds one far away.    It does work for phone dialing about 80% of the time.   It also frequently tells me that I have to unlock the phone before it will do anything.  What's the point of that?

    I think Apple's device has to look a lot better than the Mac Pro design.  Personally, I always thought the round Mac Pro looks both cheap and ugly.    I do like Stantheman's idea of a flexible OLED display.   Whatever Apple does, it has to work better than Alexa and it can't be underpowered on the first iteration as Apple frequently does.   Since Apple is coming to this market very late, this thing really has to work well and has to have clear and demonstrable advantages.   This is also one case where it can't be priced higher.   If this device does not blow people away, it's going to make Apple look like they've become Samsung or one more  Android clone phone maker.   As it is, Alexa will still have the advantage of being able to order things through it.   Apple's device should also act as a remote for the Mac, iPhone, iPad, Watch, AppleTV, etc.   It should support Apple Play so one could direct audio or video to another device, like a TV.   Maybe it should have a network hub built in.   It needs to be stereo (at least).  Maybe it has a camera and can be used to monitor, say, a baby's room.   Obviously, it needs to work with home automation devices.    Buying it should get you a ton of free content.  It's internal audio playback should support high resolution audio.   And I'm sure other people can think of many other creative uses of such a device.   Regardless, it needs to be far better than Alexa or it will be Apple's biggest failure. 
    Huh! Siri works 100% of the time for restaurant type thigns, tried it, pizza near here, 15 pizzeria in distance order 100% exact (i'm in  montreal).
    In fact, no matter the query related to restaurants, bars, pharmacies, cafes, etc. around here, it is spot on.
    Local restaurants is one of the things it gets RIGHT ALL THE TIME.
    Seams like your "examples" straight out of your rump.
    watto_cobrafastasleep
  • Reply 49 of 86
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    I like the Mac Pro. The cylindrical design allowed for a really imaginative cooling system that makes the thing really, really quiet. It may have been a mistake to expect the market to recognize the benefits of a new, much more flexible and logical core-satellite paradigm, but I certainly wouldn't call it embarrassing.
    The market still wants part swapping. I wouldn’t mind seeing a (shorter) cylinder as the new Mac Mini (and could we get it back to $499, please, Apple?).
    pscooter63
  • Reply 50 of 86
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    paxman said:
    Soli said:

    I am a bit of a skeptic when it comes to home automation. I have a vision of a device sitting there, never used. I can see the practicality of being able to switch off all the lights in the house from my bed, but at the same time, as I make my way upstairs I don't mind lifting my arm and flicking a switch. Besides, the cost of leaving a light burning for one night is negligible these days with LED's. In a similar way I see most of the home tasks I perform as not too much trouble to do analogue. That said, I am also interested. I like the idea, I guess. So, what is it that you do that makes your Echo 'amazing and useful'? What tasks does Echo perform for you on a daily basis? 

    You should be a skeptic because a lot of people selling the dream of Home Automation get confused.   In an ideal HA environment you don't need to bark commands at a speaker.   Your lights should come on based on a preset schedule or your motion.  Doors should lock/unlock based on proximity of authorized users or after a specified amount of time.  Fans or windows should open with the VOC level in a home reaches unsafe levels.  Water mains should shut off if there's a leak detected in your laundry room, basement or kitchen.   Garage doors should shut after a specified time.    

    HA done right to me is a dynamic system that I don't have to micro-manage.   Right now the industry is still in the "toy" phase.  "hey look I can do xyz with my voice" but that's not the power of HA. Voice is just one input out of many and it's appropriate in some places and in-appropriate in others. 

    These things fun..my young boys love watching the lamps turn colors and my wife loves not having to get up and flip a switch.  
    Very well said.  Personally I don't like voice commands at all.  I don't like using them when I'm home alone and I certainly don't when I'm walking down a street with strangers around.  Hopefully if/when Apple get into this space it won't just be "Siri in a cylinder with a better mic."
    So you're looking for some sort of telepathy function…
  • Reply 51 of 86
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,112member
    Rayz2016 said:
    paxman said:
    Soli said:

    I am a bit of a skeptic when it comes to home automation. I have a vision of a device sitting there, never used. I can see the practicality of being able to switch off all the lights in the house from my bed, but at the same time, as I make my way upstairs I don't mind lifting my arm and flicking a switch. Besides, the cost of leaving a light burning for one night is negligible these days with LED's. In a similar way I see most of the home tasks I perform as not too much trouble to do analogue. That said, I am also interested. I like the idea, I guess. So, what is it that you do that makes your Echo 'amazing and useful'? What tasks does Echo perform for you on a daily basis? 

    You should be a skeptic because a lot of people selling the dream of Home Automation get confused.   In an ideal HA environment you don't need to bark commands at a speaker.   Your lights should come on based on a preset schedule or your motion.  Doors should lock/unlock based on proximity of authorized users or after a specified amount of time.  Fans or windows should open with the VOC level in a home reaches unsafe levels.  Water mains should shut off if there's a leak detected in your laundry room, basement or kitchen.   Garage doors should shut after a specified time.    

    HA done right to me is a dynamic system that I don't have to micro-manage.   Right now the industry is still in the "toy" phase.  "hey look I can do xyz with my voice" but that's not the power of HA. Voice is just one input out of many and it's appropriate in some places and in-appropriate in others. 

    These things fun..my young boys love watching the lamps turn colors and my wife loves not having to get up and flip a switch.  
    Very well said.  Personally I don't like voice commands at all.  I don't like using them when I'm home alone and I certainly don't when I'm walking down a street with strangers around.  Hopefully if/when Apple get into this space it won't just be "Siri in a cylinder with a better mic."
    So you're looking for some sort of telepathy function…
    Walking a few steps instead of remote voice activation is healthier. Talking is not the best way to interact with computers. When driving it is. In a party with many drunk people cheering and shouting it is not.
  • Reply 52 of 86
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Walking a few steps instead of remote voice activation is healthier. Talking is not the best way to interact with computers. When driving it is. In a party with many drunk people cheering and shouting it is not.
    You just contradicted yourself. By your admission there are scenarios in which talking is more ideal and/or safer than typing, using a mouse, or pressing a series of buttons. What about those that are vision impaired or immobile. Are they then suppose to have no modern conveniences because you want them to walk? I use Siri and Alexa while I'm walking, so what category does that fall into?
  • Reply 53 of 86
    sflagelsflagel Posts: 795member
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    Asking on Friday morning "what is the weather like in North Norfolk " gives me the weather in Virginia, US although I am sitting in London, I have a Norfolk, England address in my Profile in Contacts as one of my home addresses, and the IPhone tracking shows that I spend almost every weekend there. 

    Not only does Siri not understand names very well, but if you ask to call someone, it often goes ahead with the call without checking. Try to have a friend called Jukub and your CEO called Jacob in your Contacts and call Jukub .... Siri calls the wrong person so many times, it has been quite embarrassing. 

    This is catastrophic. It's like a magic trick that bumbles. Sure, it does some simple things well, sometimes, if you use specific sentence structures, like setting a timer (but only one at a time....) or the alarm, but i just don't think that is very exciting. 

    I like Siri, as a UI for some simple tasks on Apple Apps, but it is not an "assistant". 

    An assistant would be able to to write a shopping list, and then allow me to interact with it, as in "Siri, I bought apples, kitchen paper, and asparagus, what else is on my list"? 

    As to AI, I think Apple is just at a major disadvantage because they don't have the web indexed like Gooogle.  Google will be able to answer a question like: how many tigers are still In India years before Apple because, well, that is what Google does and they have every webpage indexed, know readership of them, time of upload, know every web search ever done, etc. Apple is at least one step removed from the worlds data, if not more, and it will be difficult to close that gap. 
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 54 of 86
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met befor who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is. It in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    This is catastrophic. 
    1) I have no issues adding calendar entries for specific dates and time with people.

    2) I'm not sure what is catastrophic about a system that looks for the name Brian in your contacts when you're specifically asking it to set up an event with someone named Brian. It makes perfect since that it would look in your Contacts.

    Do you not understand that while you're meeting is with Brian, since you don't have that Brian in your contacts, that you want to create a meeting titled "Brian" as that's the only parameter that would make sense for the calendar entry? This seems pretty straightforward, to me.

    I was able to set it up that meeting just fine.


    edited April 2017 pscooter63watto_cobrafastasleep
  • Reply 55 of 86
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,112member
    Soli said:
    Walking a few steps instead of remote voice activation is healthier. Talking is not the best way to interact with computers. When driving it is. In a party with many drunk people cheering and shouting it is not.
    You just contradicted yourself. By your admission there are scenarios in which talking is more ideal and/or safer than typing, using a mouse, or pressing a series of buttons. What about those that are vision impaired or immobile. Are they then suppose to have no modern conveniences because you want them to walk? I use Siri and Alexa while I'm walking, so what category does that fall into?
    People will just realize that walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch and those modern "conveniences" will simply be forgotten at a remote corner of the house collecting dust. Junkyards are full of those modern" conveniences" since 70s...
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 56 of 86
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Soli said:
    Walking a few steps instead of remote voice activation is healthier. Talking is not the best way to interact with computers. When driving it is. In a party with many drunk people cheering and shouting it is not.
    You just contradicted yourself. By your admission there are scenarios in which talking is more ideal and/or safer than typing, using a mouse, or pressing a series of buttons. What about those that are vision impaired or immobile. Are they then suppose to have no modern conveniences because you want them to walk? I use Siri and Alexa while I'm walking, so what category does that fall into?
    People will just realize that walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch and those modern conveniences will simply be forgotten at a remote corner of the house collecting dust. Junkyards are full of those modern conveniences since 70s…
    What does that have to do anything being discussed? What's unhealthy about using Siri as I walk away from a parking meter I just put change in to quickly set a timer via Siri? What's unhealthy about having my hands full while in the kitchen making dinner and want to change what is playing on Spotify via the Echo? Studies show that having less artificial light in your room while you're trying to sleep is better for you yet you're telling me I'm lazy for having an Echo Dot I can ask for the time?

    These are all examples I've given.

    I don't even have an example of how the Echo can be used from a couch. What I do from my couch is use my TV or read. Are you also against a remote control because it's better to get up to turn giant knobs and adjust rabbit ears on your TV because "walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch" or do you use a remote control?
  • Reply 57 of 86
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,112member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Walking a few steps instead of remote voice activation is healthier. Talking is not the best way to interact with computers. When driving it is. In a party with many drunk people cheering and shouting it is not.
    You just contradicted yourself. By your admission there are scenarios in which talking is more ideal and/or safer than typing, using a mouse, or pressing a series of buttons. What about those that are vision impaired or immobile. Are they then suppose to have no modern conveniences because you want them to walk? I use Siri and Alexa while I'm walking, so what category does that fall into?
    People will just realize that walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch and those modern conveniences will simply be forgotten at a remote corner of the house collecting dust. Junkyards are full of those modern conveniences since 70s…
    What does that have to do anything being discussed? What's unhealthy about using Siri as I walk away from a parking meter I just put change in to quickly set a timer via Siri? What's unhealthy about having my hands full while in the kitchen making dinner and want to change what is playing on Spotify via the Echo? Studies show that having less artificial light in your room while you're trying to sleep is better for you yet you're telling me I'm lazy for having an Echo Dot I can ask for the time?

    These are all examples I've given.

    I don't even have an example of how the Echo can be used from a couch. What I do from my couch is use my TV or read. Are you also against a remote control because it's better to get up to turn giant knobs and adjust rabbit ears on your TV because "walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch" or do you use a remote control?
    Do not try to initiate an off-topic thread, you get the idea. We came to this point because I said "Talking is not the best way to interact with computers" yet you still try to convince me to the superiority of talking. You set your timer by talking, I set it with a couple taps on my Apple Watch, which I find more convenient. Enjoy your Echo but do not try to present it as the future of computing. I appreciate the importance of talking especially with public kiosks, vending machines, ATMs and alike, but it has no place in my daily computer use because "computerized" interactions are always more efficient than "anthromorphic" interactions.
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 58 of 86
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Walking a few steps instead of remote voice activation is healthier. Talking is not the best way to interact with computers. When driving it is. In a party with many drunk people cheering and shouting it is not.
    You just contradicted yourself. By your admission there are scenarios in which talking is more ideal and/or safer than typing, using a mouse, or pressing a series of buttons. What about those that are vision impaired or immobile. Are they then suppose to have no modern conveniences because you want them to walk? I use Siri and Alexa while I'm walking, so what category does that fall into?
    People will just realize that walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch and those modern conveniences will simply be forgotten at a remote corner of the house collecting dust. Junkyards are full of those modern conveniences since 70s…
    What does that have to do anything being discussed? What's unhealthy about using Siri as I walk away from a parking meter I just put change in to quickly set a timer via Siri? What's unhealthy about having my hands full while in the kitchen making dinner and want to change what is playing on Spotify via the Echo? Studies show that having less artificial light in your room while you're trying to sleep is better for you yet you're telling me I'm lazy for having an Echo Dot I can ask for the time?

    These are all examples I've given.

    I don't even have an example of how the Echo can be used from a couch. What I do from my couch is use my TV or read. Are you also against a remote control because it's better to get up to turn giant knobs and adjust rabbit ears on your TV because "walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch" or do you use a remote control?
    Do not try to initiate an off-topic thread, you get the idea. We came to this point because I said "Talking is not the best way to interact with computers" yet you still try to convince me to the superiority of talking. You set your timer by talking, I set it with a couple taps on my Apple Watch, which I find more convenient. Enjoy your Echo but do not try to present it as the future of computing. I appreciate the importance of talking especially with public kiosks, vending machines, ATMs and alike, but it has no place in my daily computer use because "computerized" interactions are always more efficient than "anthromorphic" interactions.
    1) You changed the parameters by making an artificial modifier that to interact via a voice command means you can't be ambulatory.

    2) I guarantee that you'll be taking to a computerized system more in your life—not less—as time marches on, despite your odd, irrational hatred toward the Echo as "proof" that taking that to a computer is inherently bad. I know this because I can see the general path for the evolution of personal digital assistances and because even you're admitted—at least twice now—that you already talk to these devices. Rally against progress all you want but outside of the human race no longer existing this is happening.
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 59 of 86
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,112member
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    Asking on Friday morning "what is the weather like in North Norfolk " gives me the weather in Virginia, US although I am sitting in London, I have a Norfolk, England address in my Profile in Contacts as one of my home addresses, and the IPhone tracking shows that I spend almost every weekend there. 

    Not only does Siri not understand names very well, but if you ask to call someone, it often goes ahead with the call without checking. Try to have a friend called Jukub and your CEO called Jacob in your Contacts and call Jukub .... Siri calls the wrong person so many times, it has been quite embarrassing. 

    This is catastrophic. It's like a magic trick that bumbles. Sure, it does some simple things well, sometimes, if you use specific sentence structures, like setting a timer (but only one at a time....) or the alarm, but i just don't think that is very exciting. 

    I like Siri, as a UI for some simple tasks on Apple Apps, but it is not an "assistant". 

    An assistant would be able to to write a shopping list, and then allow me to interact with it, as in "Siri, I bought apples, kitchen paper, and asparagus, what else is on my list"? 

    As to AI, I think Apple is just at a major disadvantage because they don't have the web indexed like Gooogle.  Google will be able to answer a question like: how many tigers are still In India years before Apple because, well, that is what Google does and they have every webpage indexed, know readership of them, time of upload, know every web search ever done, etc. Apple is at least one step removed from the worlds data, if not more, and it will be difficult to close that gap. 
    Indexing the web has nothing to do with AI. The web is just a data vault for AI, like many other online and offline information sources. If you think that AI lives on the web, that is another and worse catastrophe. We like the idea of the web as the AI when novelized by British sci-fi author Stephen Baxter calling it "Aristo", but this is just a good fiction, not real life. The web is just an information junkyard that would destroy any intelligence relying uniquely on it. AI requires tailored and precise, filtered information.

    As for your nightmares with Siri, just report these to Apple on https://www.apple.com/feedback Reaching the same level of performance in all countries and languages Apple is present is not easy. I appreciate Apple's efforts to make multilingual /multi-country support a precedence on Siri instead of focusing on every slang of American streets.
    edited April 2017 fastasleep
  • Reply 60 of 86
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,112member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Walking a few steps instead of remote voice activation is healthier. Talking is not the best way to interact with computers. When driving it is. In a party with many drunk people cheering and shouting it is not.
    You just contradicted yourself. By your admission there are scenarios in which talking is more ideal and/or safer than typing, using a mouse, or pressing a series of buttons. What about those that are vision impaired or immobile. Are they then suppose to have no modern conveniences because you want them to walk? I use Siri and Alexa while I'm walking, so what category does that fall into?
    People will just realize that walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch and those modern conveniences will simply be forgotten at a remote corner of the house collecting dust. Junkyards are full of those modern conveniences since 70s…
    What does that have to do anything being discussed? What's unhealthy about using Siri as I walk away from a parking meter I just put change in to quickly set a timer via Siri? What's unhealthy about having my hands full while in the kitchen making dinner and want to change what is playing on Spotify via the Echo? Studies show that having less artificial light in your room while you're trying to sleep is better for you yet you're telling me I'm lazy for having an Echo Dot I can ask for the time?

    These are all examples I've given.

    I don't even have an example of how the Echo can be used from a couch. What I do from my couch is use my TV or read. Are you also against a remote control because it's better to get up to turn giant knobs and adjust rabbit ears on your TV because "walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch" or do you use a remote control?
    Do not try to initiate an off-topic thread, you get the idea. We came to this point because I said "Talking is not the best way to interact with computers" yet you still try to convince me to the superiority of talking. You set your timer by talking, I set it with a couple taps on my Apple Watch, which I find more convenient. Enjoy your Echo but do not try to present it as the future of computing. I appreciate the importance of talking especially with public kiosks, vending machines, ATMs and alike, but it has no place in my daily computer use because "computerized" interactions are always more efficient than "anthromorphic" interactions.
    1) You changed the parameters by making an artificial modifier that to interact via a voice command means you can't be ambulatory.

    2) I guarantee that you'll be taking to a computerized system more in your life—not less—as time marches on, despite your odd, irrational hatred toward the Echo as "proof" that taking that to a computer is inherently bad. I know this because I can see the general path for the evolution of personal digital assistances and because even you're admitted—at least twice now—that you already talk to these devices. Rally against progress all you want but outside of the human race no longer existing this is happening.
    Why are you trying to teach me what I am thinking, I know what I am thinking. Focus instead to get what I am saying. Echo cannot be a model for the evolution of personal digital assistances. Personal digital assistants will evolve as long as they are tailored to watch and adapt to their human owner's daily life, health, job, expenses, leisures and alike. Antropomorphizing computer interaction is just a cartoon of that. Making jokes, singing, giggling don't make these more "assistant". If Apple releases an intelligent speaker or similar, I am sure DED will come in couple of years with an article exposing how many Apple has sold of those in one quarter compared to Echos sold in years. 
    edited April 2017
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