Slower speeds of chip card transactions? Do you guys process them "weird" in the US?
Insert card, hit OK, enter PIN, done. Doesn't really take any more time than signing.
In the USA, you don't enter a PIN (I know, it's stupid). You insert the card and wait 15 to 20 seconds (which feel like an eternity standing in line with people waiting behind you) until the terminal sounds a loud, sometimes startling series of beeps to indicate you should remove your card.
I hate the whole chip and pin idea, who's stupid idea was that. I remember when Apple Pay came out all the people from EU said it was not needed since the problem (theft) was solved with chip and pin. Every chance I get I use Apple pay it is a 2 second thing and those who have it set up correctly it does not even required a signature. I travel outside the US where Chip and Pin is required with the CC and it is a pain and take longer and a few times I almost left the card in a Gas Pump. Most stores and restaurants will make sure you do not leave the card behind since it happens all the time. One time I could not remember the PIN on the company card and you enter it wrong a few times and they lock the card on you, what royal pain.
Apple pay is the perfect example of how to fix a problem the right way verse all the other bad solutions other has come up with. Apple was the only one who could have fixed this since they control the hardware and software. The Banks trusted what they were doing.
I am still seeing lots of locations which the new POS terminals but they do not accept the chip and pin or apple pay, they have it disable, This is good think for Samsung pay which they can still emulate the mag-strip.
How does one "have it set up correctly it does not even require a signature"? I am asked to sign whenever the amount goes over the merchant's threshold for requiring a signature. Only smaller transactions are signature-free.
I go in to Panera all the time and they never ask me to sign, and I spend $10 or $35 there and they never ask, I have been told transactions under $25 are not required as you pointed out and this does not matter the transaction type. I also been to other places and it never ask for a signature no mater what I spend, whether on paper or on the POS. I have been told when the POS is set up they can set it up so when Apple Pay is used it does not required a signature. I also been to place that require signature no matter what the spend amount is. I was in Reno and went to a gas station which took apple pay at the pump, which as a surprise, but it did not require a signature just like any CC transaction at the pump. It is all in how the merchant set it up.
Slower speeds of chip card transactions? Do you guys process them "weird" in the US?
Insert card, hit OK, enter PIN, done. Doesn't really take any more time than signing.
I don't know if we make them weird in the U.S., but the transactions do take longer. It seems to take longer for the terminals to recognize and read the chip and opposed to the swipe. And then we get a "do not remove card" screen and when the transaction goes through a "remove card" screen.
In some locations and especially if one is using a debit as opposed to a credit card, Apple Pay transactions can take longer as well. I pull out my phone, it recognizes the terminal, I have to choose which card I want to use (since I have several on my phone). Then at my local supermarket, there's a confirmation screen, a screen that asks for your PIN (if using Debit), a signature screen (which shouldn't be necessary) and a total confirmation. To make matters worse, when confirming YES or NO for the total, YES is on the left and IMO, it should be on the right where OK normally appears. On more than one occasion, I've accidentally hit NO. I've also had times when I've gone through the whole process at my local drug store chain and was told by the cashier that "it didn't go through".
IMO, this all needs to be refined to work faster and smoother. It needs to be one click on the phone and no signature or other confirmations. And in spite of the fact that the credit card companies supposedly demanded that all retailers put in new terminals or absorb the risk of invalid transactions, many of the terminals don't accept Apple Pay.
For whatever reason, i.e. low bid (lol) all of the stores I've been to here in the US have s-l-o-o-o-o-w chip readers. But over the last few months some of them have got new readers and other must have had software/firmware upgrades. Almost every store I frequent has sped up the chip checkout process.
Also all but one have emilinated the annoying horn sound when being told to remove your card. Now it doesn't sound like you've done something wrong.
That said, using my Watch is still faster and my weapon of choice, but only three of my many provisioners take Apple Pay/contactless pay. And one uses QR codes from your phone. WTF?
Apple pay is so fast at telling me to 'remove my card' that I'm standing there waiting for the clerk's hardware to tell them payment is cool. Even with the odd hoop any given merchant might impose, I'd still happier using AP.
I BET The card companies are demanding contactless payment terminals! I would too if I were them. It took some time to see how this Apple Pay thing turned out but I am sure the banks love the ease and security. ZERO fraud issues and it probably zips through accounting systems. Why in hell US merchants are so ugly about Apple Pay I will never know. So many places that advertise they have it really don't. I live in one of the top ten cities in the US. I've tried Macy's, Office Depot, Container Store, you name it. Lots of times when I try to use it the merchant scowls and has to go get the manager and they futz with something or other and then--while people are waiting behind me-- I end up using the slow chip reader anyway. The chip readers are so slow where I live that writing a check would be about the same. But then, I live in the @&;!$;&@?! South anyway, what else could I expect.
Baffles me in the US when we started going to Chip cards we still need to sign (depending on amount for the transaction and merchant) and we didn't go straight to Chip and Pin which seems better for security.
If someoe steals your wallet they can still use your card given the current system. If it were Chip & Pin at least it would thwart fraud in that aspect.
The internet speed for these terminals in the US must be crap.
No, the US and Europe systems are different, and use different technology. US = Chip and Signature, EU = Chip and PIN. http://www.mytotalretail.com/post/u-s-vs-europe-taking-retail-technology/
It's dumb, but there it is. Contactless will take over in the long run. Love my Apple Watch for that.
NO, NO, NO!
The system specification and protocols used, EMVCo, is pretty much the same globally, just the manner in which retailers and banks implement them vary according to how and what aspects they decide to have.
For example a European bank can choose to configure a card to be CHIP and Sign instead of Chip and PIN for those customers who may struggle with numbers or a keypad. I've seen someone with just such a European issued card; the European banks favour their customers authorising transactions using Chip and PIN.
EMVCo specifies the contactless payment methods including those made via Apple Pay. Some countries may still be using older legacy Chip protocols but most of it is now done via EMVCo.
One simile is the USB 2.0 specification: manufacturers used the same spec but they could choose whether the USB port was 1.5, 12 or 480 Megabits/s and the maximum number of devices recognised by a computer that are using a USB hub daisy chain.
Baffles me in the US when we started going to Chip cards we still need to sign (depending on amount for the transaction and merchant) and we didn't go straight to Chip and Pin which seems better for security.
If someoe steals your wallet they can still use your card given the current system. If it were Chip & Pin at least it would thwart fraud in that aspect.
Exactly.
The PIN is "something you know" which means the person stealing your card wouldn't know it. The PIN is a huge step towards security.
But with Chip and Signature... you insert the stolen card yourself in the machine... and the cashier never touches the card and doesn't see the signature either (which is the whole point of the signature in the first place!)
So yeah... I don't understand Chip and Signature...
Slower speeds of chip card transactions? Do you guys process them "weird" in the US?
Insert card, hit OK, enter PIN, done. Doesn't really take any more time than signing.
The process is more like...
Take wallet out of pocket/purse. Remove card from wallet and insert in POS device. Stand there for 10 seconds with open wallet in hand. Enter PIN if required. (Stores have minimums that require a PIN, so it's not always ncessary) Stand there are another 5-10 seconds with wallet in hand and wait for annoying sound telling you you can remove the card. Insert card in wallet and replace in pocket/purse.
You used to be able to swipe your card and put it away while waiting for the machine to get it's approval. Using this time to bag groceries or put them in the cart etc. This is why I use Apple Pay whenever possible.
takes about one second max to authenticate, getting the card out of the wallet and putting it there was just about the longest part of the experience generally in both swipes and chip and pin.
Considering many of the swipe terminals are old as hell, I'd be surprised they would be all that fast.
entering a pin to confirmation takes less than 5 seconds unless you are comatose, which many shoppers are... no question ;-).
The fact users are slow as crap in getting their cards out and in, in general is what slows down the most things not chip and pin.
I BET The card companies are demanding contactless payment terminals! I would too if I were them. It took some time to see how this Apple Pay thing turned out but I am sure the banks love the ease and security. ZERO fraud issues and it probably zips through accounting systems. Why in hell US merchants are so ugly about Apple Pay I will never know. So many places that advertise they have it really don't. I live in one of the top ten cities in the US. I've tried Macy's, Office Depot, Container Store, you name it. Lots of times when I try to use it the merchant scowls and has to go get the manager and they futz with something or other and then--while people are waiting behind me-- I end up using the slow chip reader anyway. The chip readers are so slow where I live that writing a check would be about the same. But then, I live in the @&;!$;&@?! South anyway, what else could I expect.
Maybe in the US, in other countries contactless terminals were in a long time before ApplePay
Slower speeds of chip card transactions? Do you guys process them "weird" in the US?
Insert card, hit OK, enter PIN, done. Doesn't really take any more time than signing.
In the USA, you don't enter a PIN (I know, it's stupid). You insert the card and wait 15 to 20 seconds (which feel like an eternity standing in line with people waiting behind you) until the terminal sounds a loud, sometimes startling series of beeps to indicate you should remove your card.
No, it's NOT stupid that we can sign for transactions. In the US, one of the few really strong consumer protection laws we have mandates that no consumer shall be liable for more than $50 for a fradulent card transaction. The "chip and PIN" that's prevalent in Europe reverses that liability protection, claiming that a compromised PIN is the fault of the consumer and requiring that the consumer prove fraud.
The wait is stupid. In many ways, magstripe was far superior to the chip technology, it was (and still is, for the card I use the vast majority of the time because it doesn't have a chip) almost instant.
No remembering a PIN, no wait time, and your signature IS your ID. It's a great system, and anything that replaces it needs to be at least as good.
My experience in the UK is that Chip and PIN is just as fast as Apple Pay. Getting your card out and entering the PIN is slower and less convenient whereas Apple Pay transactions take a surprisingly long time to process on the machines.
Convenience wins out in the end though. I use Apple Pay so frequently these days that I struggle to remember the PINs for my cards.
Slower speeds of chip card transactions? Do you guys process them "weird" in the US?
Insert card, hit OK, enter PIN, done. Doesn't really take any more time than signing.
In the USA, you don't enter a PIN (I know, it's stupid). You insert the card and wait 15 to 20 seconds (which feel like an eternity standing in line with people waiting behind you) until the terminal sounds a loud, sometimes startling series of beeps to indicate you should remove your card.
I hate the whole chip and pin idea, who's stupid idea was that. I remember when Apple Pay came out all the people from EU said it was not needed since the problem (theft) was solved with chip and pin. Every chance I get I use Apple pay it is a 2 second thing and those who have it set up correctly it does not even required a signature. I travel outside the US where Chip and Pin is required with the CC and it is a pain and take longer and a few times I almost left the card in a Gas Pump. Most stores and restaurants will make sure you do not leave the card behind since it happens all the time. One time I could not remember the PIN on the company card and you enter it wrong a few times and they lock the card on you, what royal pain.
Apple pay is the perfect example of how to fix a problem the right way verse all the other bad solutions other has come up with. Apple was the only one who could have fixed this since they control the hardware and software. The Banks trusted what they were doing.
I am still seeing lots of locations which the new POS terminals but they do not accept the chip and pin or apple pay, they have it disable, This is good think for Samsung pay which they can still emulate the mag-strip.
Contactless payments in the EU are a two second thing too. If it's under a certain amount - about $30 - you wave your card over the terminal and you're done. Over $30, you just punch in your PIN. Chip and PIN might be slow, I don't know, I haven't used it in years, it's old tech.
On the speed issue, I've noticed more and more if I use a contactless card - it's instant, like beep-"approved". If I use Apple-pay (connected to the very same account), I have to wait 2-3 seconds until it says "Approved". It's not just limited to 1 retailer either, I've noticed it at Tesco, Asda, Lidl, Aldi & Co-Op so far. Still prefer using it to getting my wallet out but the delay is annoying if I've already grabbed my goods and want to make a quick exit.
I used ApplePay at an Anthropologie in Ohio this last January so some stores must be supporting it. I completed the transaction of an employee's hand held terminal Apple Store style.
Slower speeds of chip card transactions? Do you guys process them "weird" in the US?
Insert card, hit OK, enter PIN, done. Doesn't really take any more time than signing.
In the USA, you don't enter a PIN (I know, it's stupid). You insert the card and wait 15 to 20 seconds (which feel like an eternity standing in line with people waiting behind you) until the terminal sounds a loud, sometimes startling series of beeps to indicate you should remove your card.
I hate the whole chip and pin idea, who's stupid idea was that. I remember when Apple Pay came out all the people from EU said it was not needed since the problem (theft) was solved with chip and pin. Every chance I get I use Apple pay it is a 2 second thing and those who have it set up correctly it does not even required a signature. I travel outside the US where Chip and Pin is required with the CC and it is a pain and take longer and a few times I almost left the card in a Gas Pump. Most stores and restaurants will make sure you do not leave the card behind since it happens all the time. One time I could not remember the PIN on the company card and you enter it wrong a few times and they lock the card on you, what royal pain.
Apple pay is the perfect example of how to fix a problem the right way verse all the other bad solutions other has come up with. Apple was the only one who could have fixed this since they control the hardware and software. The Banks trusted what they were doing.
I am still seeing lots of locations which the new POS terminals but they do not accept the chip and pin or apple pay, they have it disable, This is good think for Samsung pay which they can still emulate the mag-strip.
Contactless payments in the EU are a two second thing too. If it's under a certain amount - about $30 - you wave your card over the terminal and you're done. Over $30, you just punch in your PIN. Chip and PIN might be slow, I don't know, I haven't used it in years, it's old tech.
In the US they used the contactless payment system prior to chip & pin, and there were theft issue, people were walking up to people's wallet and purses with a reader and stealing information from people cards. I am not sure if the EU is using the same type of system. The things that Apple did was the tokenization which makes the CC information unique for each transaction so any information someone gets is useless after the single use.
Slower speeds of chip card transactions? Do you guys process them "weird" in the US?
Insert card, hit OK, enter PIN, done. Doesn't really take any more time than signing.
The process is more like...
Take wallet out of pocket/purse. Remove card from wallet and insert in POS device. Stand there for 10 seconds with open wallet in hand. Enter PIN if required. (Stores have minimums that require a PIN, so it's not always ncessary) Stand there are another 5-10 seconds with wallet in hand and wait for annoying sound telling you you can remove the card. Insert card in wallet and replace in pocket/purse.
You used to be able to swipe your card and put it away while waiting for the machine to get it's approval. Using this time to bag groceries or put them in the cart etc. This is why I use Apple Pay whenever possible.
The internet speed for these terminals in the US must be crap.
Typical shop at a UK Supermarket, assistant scans your items and asks you to pay, terminal is pretty much ready for your card as soon as last item scanned, put card in card reader, wait around a second, type in pin, wait another 2-3 seconds and put card away.
Don't get how it takes 20-30 seconds in the USA, at most it is a 10 second job here and that includes taking your card out and putting it away.
Different stores I go to have various speeds of card processing. I'm not sure if it's the type of terminal or just how those terminals are connected to where the cards need to be verified. In most cases for me it's just a few seconds but I've gone to some stores whose terminals are quite slow and it could take about 20 seconds or so. Of course, for me, 20 seconds lost is nothing. What's really lengthy is the people who pay by cash and they're fishing around for change or the cashier has to count their bills and return cash. However, I'm retired so waiting doesn't bother me much at all. At my age, I gave up trying to save time since I know it's soon going to run out relatively soon anyway.
It's not the 20 seconds for me. It's the 20 seconds or more extra for me AND each person in front of you on line. These quickly add up to extra minutes in total.
Slower speeds of chip card transactions? Do you guys process them "weird" in the US?
Insert card, hit OK, enter PIN, done. Doesn't really take any more time than signing.
In the USA, you don't enter a PIN (I know, it's stupid). You insert the card and wait 15 to 20 seconds (which feel like an eternity standing in line with people waiting behind you) until the terminal sounds a loud, sometimes startling series of beeps to indicate you should remove your card.
I hate the whole chip and pin idea, who's stupid idea was that. I remember when Apple Pay came out all the people from EU said it was not needed since the problem (theft) was solved with chip and pin. Every chance I get I use Apple pay it is a 2 second thing and those who have it set up correctly it does not even required a signature. I travel outside the US where Chip and Pin is required with the CC and it is a pain and take longer and a few times I almost left the card in a Gas Pump. Most stores and restaurants will make sure you do not leave the card behind since it happens all the time. One time I could not remember the PIN on the company card and you enter it wrong a few times and they lock the card on you, what royal pain.
Apple pay is the perfect example of how to fix a problem the right way verse all the other bad solutions other has come up with. Apple was the only one who could have fixed this since they control the hardware and software. The Banks trusted what they were doing.
I am still seeing lots of locations which the new POS terminals but they do not accept the chip and pin or apple pay, they have it disable, This is good think for Samsung pay which they can still emulate the mag-strip.
Contactless payments in the EU are a two second thing too. If it's under a certain amount - about $30 - you wave your card over the terminal and you're done. Over $30, you just punch in your PIN. Chip and PIN might be slow, I don't know, I haven't used it in years, it's old tech.
In the US they used the contactless payment system prior to chip & pin, and there were theft issue, people were walking up to people's wallet and purses with a reader and stealing information from people cards. I am not sure if the EU is using the same type of system. The things that Apple did was the tokenization which makes the CC information unique for each transaction so any information someone gets is useless after the single use.
In truth it was Visa/Mastercard who initiated the development of the current token system used by Apple (Google developed a different and not quite as effective token method a couple of years earlier) but yes it was Apple who successfully integrated it and rolled it out first. They deserve credit for it.
Slower speeds of chip card transactions? Do you guys process them "weird" in the US?
Insert card, hit OK, enter PIN, done. Doesn't really take any more time than signing.
I don't know if we make them weird in the U.S., but the transactions do take longer. It seems to take longer for the terminals to recognize and read the chip and opposed to the swipe. And then we get a "do not remove card" screen and when the transaction goes through a "remove card" screen.
In some locations and especially if one is using a debit as opposed to a credit card, Apple Pay transactions can take longer as well. I pull out my phone, it recognizes the terminal, I have to choose which card I want to use (since I have several on my phone). Then at my local supermarket, there's a confirmation screen, a screen that asks for your PIN (if using Debit), a signature screen (which shouldn't be necessary) and a total confirmation. To make matters worse, when confirming YES or NO for the total, YES is on the left and IMO, it should be on the right where OK normally appears. On more than one occasion, I've accidentally hit NO. I've also had times when I've gone through the whole process at my local drug store chain and was told by the cashier that "it didn't go through".
IMO, this all needs to be refined to work faster and smoother. It needs to be one click on the phone and no signature or other confirmations. And in spite of the fact that the credit card companies supposedly demanded that all retailers put in new terminals or absorb the risk of invalid transactions, many of the terminals don't accept Apple Pay.
Don't forget when they ask if you want cash back too. Another screen to click through.
Comments
In some locations and especially if one is using a debit as opposed to a credit card, Apple Pay transactions can take longer as well. I pull out my phone, it recognizes the terminal, I have to choose which card I want to use (since I have several on my phone). Then at my local supermarket, there's a confirmation screen, a screen that asks for your PIN (if using Debit), a signature screen (which shouldn't be necessary) and a total confirmation. To make matters worse, when confirming YES or NO for the total, YES is on the left and IMO, it should be on the right where OK normally appears. On more than one occasion, I've accidentally hit NO. I've also had times when I've gone through the whole process at my local drug store chain and was told by the cashier that "it didn't go through".
IMO, this all needs to be refined to work faster and smoother. It needs to be one click on the phone and no signature or other confirmations. And in spite of the fact that the credit card companies supposedly demanded that all retailers put in new terminals or absorb the risk of invalid transactions, many of the terminals don't accept Apple Pay.
Also all but one have emilinated the annoying horn sound when being told to remove your card. Now it doesn't sound like you've done something wrong.
That said, using my Watch is still faster and my weapon of choice, but only three of my many provisioners take Apple Pay/contactless pay. And one uses QR codes from your phone. WTF?
Apple pay is so fast at telling me to 'remove my card' that I'm standing there waiting for the clerk's hardware to tell them payment is cool. Even with the odd hoop any given merchant might impose, I'd still happier using AP.
It took some time to see how this Apple Pay thing turned out but I am sure the banks love the ease and security. ZERO fraud issues and it probably zips through accounting systems. Why in hell US merchants are so ugly about Apple Pay I will never know. So many places that advertise they have it really don't. I live in one of the top ten cities in the US. I've tried Macy's, Office Depot, Container Store, you name it. Lots of times when I try to use it the merchant scowls and has to go get the manager and they futz with something or other and then--while people are waiting behind me-- I end up using the slow chip reader anyway. The chip readers are so slow where I live that writing a check would be about the same. But then, I live in the @&;!$;&@?! South anyway, what else could I expect.
If someoe steals your wallet they can still use your card given the current system. If it were Chip & Pin at least it would thwart fraud in that aspect.
NO, NO, NO!
The system specification and protocols used, EMVCo, is pretty much the same globally, just the manner in which retailers and banks implement them vary according to how and what aspects they decide to have.
https://www.emvco.com/about/deployment-statistics/
For example a European bank can choose to configure a card to be CHIP and Sign instead of Chip and PIN for those customers who may struggle with numbers or a keypad. I've seen someone with just such a European issued card; the European banks favour their customers authorising transactions using Chip and PIN.
EMVCo specifies the contactless payment methods including those made via Apple Pay.
Some countries may still be using older legacy Chip protocols but most of it is now done via EMVCo.
One simile is the USB 2.0 specification: manufacturers used the same spec but they could choose whether the USB port was 1.5, 12 or 480 Megabits/s and the maximum number of devices recognised by a computer that are using a USB hub daisy chain.
The PIN is "something you know" which means the person stealing your card wouldn't know it. The PIN is a huge step towards security.
But with Chip and Signature... you insert the stolen card yourself in the machine... and the cashier never touches the card and doesn't see the signature either (which is the whole point of the signature in the first place!)
So yeah... I don't understand Chip and Signature...
Maybe in the US, in other countries contactless terminals were in a long time before ApplePay
Convenience wins out in the end though. I use Apple Pay so frequently these days that I struggle to remember the PINs for my cards.
In the US they used the contactless payment system prior to chip & pin, and there were theft issue, people were walking up to people's wallet and purses with a reader and stealing information from people cards. I am not sure if the EU is using the same type of system. The things that Apple did was the tokenization which makes the CC information unique for each transaction so any information someone gets is useless after the single use.