Amazon takes on Apple TV 4K with updated Fire TV featuring HDR, Dolby Atmos support

AppleInsider · September 27, 2017 8:40PM

Shortly after the unveiling of the Apple TV 4K, Amazon has updated its own high-resolution streaming set-top box lines by upgrading the Fire TV, with the improvements including HDR and Dolby Atmos support, more power, and a physical makeover, as well as a lower price point.

Taking the place of the now-discontinued set-top box, the new Fire TV takes design cues from the Fire TV Stick and the Google Chromecast Ultra, resembling a smaller square-shaped dongle with a permanently attached but short HDMI cable. This design decision now hides the Fire TV on the back of the TV, dangling from the HDMI port and out of sight of viewers.

Packing a 1.5GHz quad-core processor with 2GB of RAM and 8GB of storage, the new device builds upon its predecessor's video capabilities by showing 4K video at up to 60fps, with HDR-10 support allowing it to display more vivid imagery when used with a compatible television and suitable content. For audio, it includes support for Dolby Atmos, 7.1 surround sound, and HDMI audio pass through up to 5.1.

The new Fire TV connects to the local network using dual-band 802.11ac MIMO Wi-Fi, and though it loses the Ethernet connection, it is said to be compatible with a separate Amazon Ethernet Adapter for wired network connectivity. There is also Bluetooth 4.1 and LE connectivity, which is used with the included Alexa Voice Remote to control playback as well as other accessories, though it can also be controlled using the Fire TV Remote App for iOS.

It is also possible to pair the Fire TV with other Echo devices on the home network, allowing it to be accessed verbally via Alexa without using the remote at all. Amazon advises it is working with other content partners to enable a "hands-free content experience" on Fire TV for other apps on the device, naming Hulu, Showtime, NBC, and PlayStation Vue as receiving support for the feature in the future.

Borrowing a feature from Apple, Amazon is also working with content providers to have single sign-on added to TV Everywhere apps, which can streamline the process of authenticating with apps for Pay TV services.

Lastly, Amazon has added smart home camera support to all Fire TV devices and the second-generation Fire TV Sticks in the United States, allowing users to view live feeds from cameras on their TV via an Alexa request. The current list of devices that the feature supports includes cameras from Arlo, Ring, Nest, and August.

Amazon has made the new Fire TV available to pre-order in the United States for $69.99, less than half the cost of Apple's recently-launched Apple TV 4K, with shipments starting from October 25. Customers activating the Fire TV by November 15 will get two months of Hulu's Limited or No Commercials service, a one-month trial of Showtime, and a $10 credit to rent and buy content from Amazon Video.

Amazon is also bundling together the Fire TV and the Echo Dot for $79.99 for a limited time, as well as a similar offer for the Fire TV Stick and Echo Dot for $59.99.

melgross · September 27, 2017 8:52PM

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

jkichline · September 27, 2017 9:08PM

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

Soli · September 27, 2017 9:09PM

That design seems pretty poor. I hope it coms with some adhesive or Velcro so you can keep it from handling and putting pressure on your HDMI port.

melgross · September 27, 2017 9:25PM

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb. Apple’s aTV sales have dropped to forth place, whereas at one time they were first place. Apple’s movie and Tv sales and rentals have dropped a lot as well, where they were once in first place for that too. There’s a correlation there. Obviously, Apple’s Tv products and services are losing major ground to cheaper competitors, and to ones who are willing to make the content deals Apple isn’t.

until Apple turns that around, nothing anyone says about their hardware, or software in that area makes any sense, if they’re defending it. Sales tell us everything we need to know about how much people like the products.

so, I’ve got this on order. I’ve also got several controllers for my iPad and iPhone which work. But that testimonial, as well as yours, means little, overall, because of the declining sales.

gatorguy · September 27, 2017 9:33PM

melgross said:

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb.

My son has had a far better experience than yours via Nvidia Shield TV, using it on a near daily basis, and playing console quality games with console quality game controllers. (Bioshock, The Witcher etc). I think once the new Apple TV families find out what's possible (and what's not) they may have more interest in gaming with it.

Mike Wuerthele · September 27, 2017 9:47PM

melgross said:

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb. Apple’s aTV sales have dropped to forth place, whereas at one time they were first place. Apple’s movie and Tv sales and rentals have dropped a lot as well, where they were once in first place for that too. There’s a correlation there. Obviously, Apple’s Tv products and services are losing major ground to cheaper competitors, and to ones who are willing to make the content deals Apple isn’t.

until Apple turns that around, nothing anyone says about their hardware, or software in that area makes any sense, if they’re defending it. Sales tell us everything we need to know about how much people like the products.

so, I’ve got this on order. I’ve also got several controllers for my iPad and iPhone which work. But that testimonial, as well as yours, means little, overall, because of the declining sales.

This statement that I bolded is 100% unfiltered crap, and from a long-time Apple user to boot. Until the iPod came around, what did Apple lead in? It's never been in the lead in personal computer sales for the last 20 years, and probably more.

Sales can either tell us how much people like a product, or how cheap the product is. $40 Android phones from an assortment of vendors beat iPhone sales -- does that mean the iPhone is crap? Acer's PC sales eclipse Apple's Mac sales. Does that mean the Mac is crap? Sale volumes say very little about capabilities of a product.

Here: "I got this widget on sale for $X/2! It's not perfect, but it gets me to 60% of where I want to be, so, it'll be fine." Does this sound like anything to you?

melgross · September 27, 2017 9:54PM

gatorguy said:

melgross said:

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb.

My son has had a far better experience than yours via Nvidia Shield TV, using it on a near daily basis, and playing console quality games with console quality game controllers. (Bioshock, The Witcher etc). I think once Apple TV families find out what's possible (and what's not) they may have more interest in gaming.

The Nvidia shield was specifically designed for gaming. And frankly, it’s not that great. It’s hasnt aged very well.

gatorguy · September 27, 2017 9:59PM

melgross said:

gatorguy said:

melgross said:

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb.

My son has had a far better experience than yours via Nvidia Shield TV, using it on a near daily basis, and playing console quality games with console quality game controllers. (Bioshock, The Witcher etc). I think once Apple TV families find out what's possible (and what's not) they may have more interest in gaming.

The Nvidia shield was specifically designed for gaming. And frankly, it’s not that great. It’s hasnt aged very well.

Based on? Even the original 2015 model has received the firmware upgrade that gave it every new feature of the 2017 version. It's aged VERY well.

melgross · September 27, 2017 10:07PM

Mike Wuerthele said:

melgross said:

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb. Apple’s aTV sales have dropped to forth place, whereas at one time they were first place. Apple’s movie and Tv sales and rentals have dropped a lot as well, where they were once in first place for that too. There’s a correlation there. Obviously, Apple’s Tv products and services are losing major ground to cheaper competitors, and to ones who are willing to make the content deals Apple isn’t.

until Apple turns that around, nothing anyone says about their hardware, or software in that area makes any sense, if they’re defending it. Sales tell us everything we need to know about how much people like the products.

so, I’ve got this on order. I’ve also got several controllers for my iPad and iPhone which work. But that testimonial, as well as yours, means little, overall, because of the declining sales.

This statement that I bolded is 100% unfiltered crap, and from a long-time Apple user to boot. Until the iPod came around, what did Apple lead in? It's never been in the lead in personal computer sales for the last 20 years, and probably more.

Sales can either tell us how much people like a product, or how cheap the product is. $40 Android phones from an assortment of vendors beat iPhone sales -- does that mean the iPhone is crap? Acer's PC sales eclipse Apple's Mac sales. Does that mean the Mac is crap? Sale volumes say very little about capabilities of a product.

Here: "I got this widget on sale for $X/2! It's not perfect, but it gets me to 60% of where I want to be, so, it'll be fine." Does this sound like anything to you?

I think your response is crap. You obviously didn’t understand what I wrote. Apple was bragging that they had the number one movie and Tv sales and rentals. Don’t give me BS about how Apple feels about marketshare, because I’m tired of hearing that garbage. Apple has ALWAYS made points about marketshare, when Jobs as there, after he left, and after he came back. Now that he’s gone, they still do. This is nothing new, and if you knew half as much about Apple as you think you do, you would know that.

as far as my saying, or even hinting that the products themselves were crap, well, where did I say that? You won’t find it, because I never said that. You made a very distorted statement about what I said. But yes, it’s true, gaming on the aTV is terrible. I’m not the only one to say that. Read any review that involves gaming, and it will agree. Is it all Apple’s fault? No, it’s also the developers. But Apple did make it more difficult by requiring that all games enable the Apple controller. They’ve stated that. And that’s from developers who do very well on Apple’s other iOS platforms.

innate capabilities aren’t the only thing that involves value. If developers don’t take advantage of it, then the value will be less. That’s really not difficult to understand. And right now, whether you like it or not, the state of gaming on the aTV isn’t very good. I do have hopes it will get better.

i don’t understand what that last part has to do with anything. It certainly has nothing to do with what I said. But, we see that Amazon just released a new Tv device for $69. It doesn’t play games, true. But are people buying these things for games, or to watch video? I’d bet that almost all of the use is for video.

Kuyangkoh · September 27, 2017 10:12PM

Competitions are good, at the end of the day consumers won and Apple makes more money then Amazon and Google😬

canukstorm · September 27, 2017 10:14PM

melgross said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

melgross said:

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb. Apple’s aTV sales have dropped to forth place, whereas at one time they were first place. Apple’s movie and Tv sales and rentals have dropped a lot as well, where they were once in first place for that too. There’s a correlation there. Obviously, Apple’s Tv products and services are losing major ground to cheaper competitors, and to ones who are willing to make the content deals Apple isn’t.

until Apple turns that around, nothing anyone says about their hardware, or software in that area makes any sense, if they’re defending it. Sales tell us everything we need to know about how much people like the products.

so, I’ve got this on order. I’ve also got several controllers for my iPad and iPhone which work. But that testimonial, as well as yours, means little, overall, because of the declining sales.

This statement that I bolded is 100% unfiltered crap, and from a long-time Apple user to boot. Until the iPod came around, what did Apple lead in? It's never been in the lead in personal computer sales for the last 20 years, and probably more.

Sales can either tell us how much people like a product, or how cheap the product is. $40 Android phones from an assortment of vendors beat iPhone sales -- does that mean the iPhone is crap? Acer's PC sales eclipse Apple's Mac sales. Does that mean the Mac is crap? Sale volumes say very little about capabilities of a product.

Here: "I got this widget on sale for $X/2! It's not perfect, but it gets me to 60% of where I want to be, so, it'll be fine." Does this sound like anything to you?

I think your response is crap. You obviously didn’t understand what I wrote. Apple was bragging that they had the number one movie and Tv sales and rentals. Don’t give me BS about how Apple feels about marketshare, because I’m tired of hearing that garbage. Apple has ALWAYS made points about marketshare, when Jobs as there, after he left, and after he came back. Now that he’s gone, they still do. This is nothing new, and if you knew half as much about Apple as you think you do, you would know that.

as far as my saying, or even hinting that the products themselves were crap, well, where did I say that? You won’t find it, because I never said that. You made a very distorted statement about what I said. But yes, it’s true, gaming on the aTV is terrible. I’m not the only one to say that. Read any review that involves gaming, and it will agree. Is it all Apple’s fault? No, it’s also the developers. But Apple did make it more difficult by requiring that all games enable the Apple controller. They’ve stated that. And that’s from developers who do very well on Apple’s other iOS platforms.

innate capabilities aren’t the only thing that involves value. If developers don’t take advantage of it, then the value will be less. That’s really not difficult to understand. And right now, whether you like it or not, the state of gaming on the aTV isn’t very good. I do have hopes it will get better.

i don’t understand what that last part has to do with anything. It certainly has nothing to do with what I said. But, we see that Amazon just released a new Tv device for $69. It doesn’t play games, true. But are people buying these things for games, or to watch video? I’d bet that almost all of the use is for video.

Until Apple makes their own first-party gaming controller and invests in gaming content, via first-party games or investing in other gaming developers, I don't see them catching Nintendo let alone MS Xbox or PS4. But the ATV does have powerful hardware and it is priced at $179 / $199 which makes me think Apple probably does bigger plans for the ATV. What that is, is anyone's guess.

hmurchison · September 27, 2017 10:21PM

It’s basically a Chromecast Ultra.

Im likely going to pick up an Nvidia Shield and then Apple TV 4K.
My goal is to limit my need to stream. I’m setting up a Plex Server post haste

Mike Wuerthele · September 27, 2017 10:24PM

melgross said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

melgross said:

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb. Apple’s aTV sales have dropped to forth place, whereas at one time they were first place. Apple’s movie and Tv sales and rentals have dropped a lot as well, where they were once in first place for that too. There’s a correlation there. Obviously, Apple’s Tv products and services are losing major ground to cheaper competitors, and to ones who are willing to make the content deals Apple isn’t.

until Apple turns that around, nothing anyone says about their hardware, or software in that area makes any sense, if they’re defending it. Sales tell us everything we need to know about how much people like the products.

so, I’ve got this on order. I’ve also got several controllers for my iPad and iPhone which work. But that testimonial, as well as yours, means little, overall, because of the declining sales.

This statement that I bolded is 100% unfiltered crap, and from a long-time Apple user to boot. Until the iPod came around, what did Apple lead in? It's never been in the lead in personal computer sales for the last 20 years, and probably more.

Sales can either tell us how much people like a product, or how cheap the product is. $40 Android phones from an assortment of vendors beat iPhone sales -- does that mean the iPhone is crap? Acer's PC sales eclipse Apple's Mac sales. Does that mean the Mac is crap? Sale volumes say very little about capabilities of a product.

Here: "I got this widget on sale for $X/2! It's not perfect, but it gets me to 60% of where I want to be, so, it'll be fine." Does this sound like anything to you?

I think your response is crap. You obviously didn’t understand what I wrote. Apple was bragging that they had the number one movie and Tv sales and rentals. Don’t give me BS about how Apple feels about marketshare, because I’m tired of hearing that garbage. Apple has ALWAYS made points about marketshare, when Jobs as there, after he left, and after he came back. Now that he’s gone, they still do. This is nothing new, and if you knew half as much about Apple as you think you do, you would know that.

as far as my saying, or even hinting that the products themselves were crap, well, where did I say that? You won’t find it, because I never said that. You made a very distorted statement about what I said. But yes, it’s true, gaming on the aTV is terrible. I’m not the only one to say that. Read any review that involves gaming, and it will agree. Is it all Apple’s fault? No, it’s also the developers. But Apple did make it more difficult by requiring that all games enable the Apple controller. They’ve stated that. And that’s from developers who do very well on Apple’s other iOS platforms.

innate capabilities aren’t the only thing that involves value. If developers don’t take advantage of it, then the value will be less. That’s really not difficult to understand. And right now, whether you like it or not, the state of gaming on the aTV isn’t very good. I do have hopes it will get better.

i don’t understand what that last part has to do with anything. It certainly has nothing to do with what I said. But, we see that Amazon just released a new Tv device for $69. It doesn’t play games, true. But are people buying these things for games, or to watch video? I’d bet that almost all of the use is for video.

Nice spin. Nice ad hominem too, and selective application of Apple's statements about marketshare over time.

Done here, and disappointed. Have a nice night.

lorin schultz · September 27, 2017 10:43PM

I've never before been interested enough to look at any kind of "feeder" device besides the Apple TV so I know less than zero about how any of the others work. This thing sounds interesting though. Is there a way for me to watch content purchased from Apple with this device? What about locally stored stuff? I have a Mac mini in the living room that feeds stuff to my old Apple TV. Could it feed stuff to the Amazon device instead?

cali · September 27, 2017 10:44PM

Why the hell do these companies have to copy Apple design especially for their remotes? Pathetic.

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

I don’t believe Apple is pushing gaming. It’s still just a hobby for them. I wish they would take gaming seriously.

melgross said:

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb. Apple’s aTV sales have dropped to forth place, whereas at one time they were first place. Apple’s movie and Tv sales and rentals have dropped a lot as well, where they were once in first place for that too. There’s a correlation there. Obviously, Apple’s Tv products and services are losing major ground to cheaper competitors, and to ones who are willing to make the content deals Apple isn’t.

until Apple turns that around, nothing anyone says about their hardware, or software in that area makes any sense, if they’re defending it. Sales tell us everything we need to know about how much people like the products.

so, I’ve got this on order. I’ve also got several controllers for my iPad and iPhone which work. But that testimonial, as well as yours, means little, overall, because of the declining sales.

Because Apple is still tinkering and playing with this hobby. While Amazon, Goog, Roku etc. Are putting in 100% effort Apple is just dipping their toes in with maybe 20%.

if Apple took Apple TV out of beta they would have added:

custom gaming chip.

M-processor, 3D Touch and advanced Taptic Engine for gaming, fitness apps, health etc.

AR camera array for shopping, FaceTime, games and other apps we can’t imagine yet.

advanced IR aiming and an official nunchuck Style controller for gaming(again).

With Swift, Metal 2 and A11Bionic, I know the day is coming soon when the “real” Apple TV is announced. I believe they’re waiting to mass produce a single chip that can handle iPad, iPhone, tvOS. We’re close but not there yet.

StrangeDays · September 27, 2017 10:48PM

melgross said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

melgross said:

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb. Apple’s aTV sales have dropped to forth place, whereas at one time they were first place. Apple’s movie and Tv sales and rentals have dropped a lot as well, where they were once in first place for that too. There’s a correlation there. Obviously, Apple’s Tv products and services are losing major ground to cheaper competitors, and to ones who are willing to make the content deals Apple isn’t.

until Apple turns that around, nothing anyone says about their hardware, or software in that area makes any sense, if they’re defending it. Sales tell us everything we need to know about how much people like the products.

so, I’ve got this on order. I’ve also got several controllers for my iPad and iPhone which work. But that testimonial, as well as yours, means little, overall, because of the declining sales.

This statement that I bolded is 100% unfiltered crap, and from a long-time Apple user to boot. Until the iPod came around, what did Apple lead in? It's never been in the lead in personal computer sales for the last 20 years, and probably more.

Sales can either tell us how much people like a product, or how cheap the product is. $40 Android phones from an assortment of vendors beat iPhone sales -- does that mean the iPhone is crap? Acer's PC sales eclipse Apple's Mac sales. Does that mean the Mac is crap? Sale volumes say very little about capabilities of a product.

Here: "I got this widget on sale for $X/2! It's not perfect, but it gets me to 60% of where I want to be, so, it'll be fine." Does this sound like anything to you?

Don’t give me BS about how Apple feels about marketshare, because I’m tired of hearing that garbage. Apple has ALWAYS made points about marketshare, when Jobs as there, after he left, and after he came back. Now that he’s gone, they still do. This is nothing new, and if you knew half as much about Apple as you think you do, you would know that.

Sorry but no, Apple doesn’t pander to the Church of Market Share. they have chosen profit over market share, time and again. They could have saturated several markets but have chosen not to engage in a race to the bottom, unlock all of the old PC companies of yore, android phones, etc.

I don’t doubt that they may brag about market share if they led it for some presentation slide, but it’s clearly not their product strategy.

mazda 3s · September 28, 2017 12:17AM

All I want to do is watch 4K content on Amazon Video/Netflix and tap into my Plex Media Server. I don’t need to pay out the ass for that.

So I just preordered the Fire TV 4K + Echo Dot for $85 including tax. Since I already have two Echo Dots and a sh**load of smart devices, I’ll just give my dad the Echo for his birthday. He’s an Amazon junky anyway.

jediknight · September 28, 2017 12:22AM

This thing can be made out of Gold for that price and I won’t buy it. AppleTv doesn’t have to be number one in sales or number 2 or 3... Apple just have to keep investing in AppleTv and continue to improve and I will continue to purchase it. I’d rather pay 149 once every couple of years than buy that Amazon thing. 149 bucks is not gonna leave me broke.

If Apple only sold AppleTV’s then they will have something to worry about. They don’t, a lot of people I know by AppleTv because they own an iPhone and fell in love with their products. Sooooo many “non tech” people I know won’t go near Amazon Fire Tv. The folks I know who use anything Amazon attatcked to their TV only use it for Kodi.

melgross · September 28, 2017 1:58AM

canukstorm said:

melgross said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

melgross said:

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb. Apple’s aTV sales have dropped to forth place, whereas at one time they were first place. Apple’s movie and Tv sales and rentals have dropped a lot as well, where they were once in first place for that too. There’s a correlation there. Obviously, Apple’s Tv products and services are losing major ground to cheaper competitors, and to ones who are willing to make the content deals Apple isn’t.

until Apple turns that around, nothing anyone says about their hardware, or software in that area makes any sense, if they’re defending it. Sales tell us everything we need to know about how much people like the products.

so, I’ve got this on order. I’ve also got several controllers for my iPad and iPhone which work. But that testimonial, as well as yours, means little, overall, because of the declining sales.

This statement that I bolded is 100% unfiltered crap, and from a long-time Apple user to boot. Until the iPod came around, what did Apple lead in? It's never been in the lead in personal computer sales for the last 20 years, and probably more.

Sales can either tell us how much people like a product, or how cheap the product is. $40 Android phones from an assortment of vendors beat iPhone sales -- does that mean the iPhone is crap? Acer's PC sales eclipse Apple's Mac sales. Does that mean the Mac is crap? Sale volumes say very little about capabilities of a product.

Here: "I got this widget on sale for $X/2! It's not perfect, but it gets me to 60% of where I want to be, so, it'll be fine." Does this sound like anything to you?

I think your response is crap. You obviously didn’t understand what I wrote. Apple was bragging that they had the number one movie and Tv sales and rentals. Don’t give me BS about how Apple feels about marketshare, because I’m tired of hearing that garbage. Apple has ALWAYS made points about marketshare, when Jobs as there, after he left, and after he came back. Now that he’s gone, they still do. This is nothing new, and if you knew half as much about Apple as you think you do, you would know that.

as far as my saying, or even hinting that the products themselves were crap, well, where did I say that? You won’t find it, because I never said that. You made a very distorted statement about what I said. But yes, it’s true, gaming on the aTV is terrible. I’m not the only one to say that. Read any review that involves gaming, and it will agree. Is it all Apple’s fault? No, it’s also the developers. But Apple did make it more difficult by requiring that all games enable the Apple controller. They’ve stated that. And that’s from developers who do very well on Apple’s other iOS platforms.

innate capabilities aren’t the only thing that involves value. If developers don’t take advantage of it, then the value will be less. That’s really not difficult to understand. And right now, whether you like it or not, the state of gaming on the aTV isn’t very good. I do have hopes it will get better.

i don’t understand what that last part has to do with anything. It certainly has nothing to do with what I said. But, we see that Amazon just released a new Tv device for $69. It doesn’t play games, true. But are people buying these things for games, or to watch video? I’d bet that almost all of the use is for video.

Until Apple makes their own first-party gaming controller and invests in gaming content, via first-party games or investing in other gaming developers, I don't see them catching Nintendo let alone MS Xbox or PS4. But the ATV does have powerful hardware and it is priced at $179 / $199 which makes me think Apple probably does bigger plans for the ATV. What that is, is anyone's guess.

Don’t get me wrong. I keep telling people that this can do games pretty well. I’ve said that about my gen 4 model too, when it came out, and after iOS 10. But nothing happened. I’d have thought that by now, this would have been a serious platform for that. But no. Even my iPad hasn’t really changed things much, or the phones.

yes, for casual gaming, they are the thing. And we see better, and more serious games as time goes by. But Apple has to do more directly, and they haven’t. If they really want to do this they need to buy a major studio as Microsoft did for the XBox. I’ve said that before. That’s what got them going. Apple has to wake up to that as well. It’s why they’re now doing exactly what they said they weren’t going to do just a year ago, which is to produce major content.

gaming is all about talk, and excitement. Where is that for the aTV? Do we see anything like that in, say, GameInformer? No. Anywhere else that gamers read? No. Does Apple appear at any of the cons? No. How about E3, where the console and handheld manufactures and game developers go to every year? No. Why not?

melgross · September 28, 2017 2:03AM

Mike Wuerthele said:

melgross said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

melgross said:

jkichline said:

melgross said:

Most people would rather have some Ads and save money. We know that already. $69 vs $149 is a major difference for many people. While Apple is pushing gaming, Amazon is not. How many people really care about the gaming aspect?

My kids love playing games on the TV and the new 4K res is awesome for that!

Also, only 8GB of storage? Apple quadruples that out of the gate and the processor is orders of magnitude faster. This thing can pretty much just handle streaming and decoding 4K video. That's about it.

No ethernet? That's an extra adapter expense. Sorry, but for streaming I'm not going to hook it up via WiFi and have my cluttered radio space make my kid's shows choppy.

So far, very few people are gaming on their aTV. I tried it, and so far, it’s a bomb. Apple’s aTV sales have dropped to forth place, whereas at one time they were first place. Apple’s movie and Tv sales and rentals have dropped a lot as well, where they were once in first place for that too. There’s a correlation there. Obviously, Apple’s Tv products and services are losing major ground to cheaper competitors, and to ones who are willing to make the content deals Apple isn’t.

until Apple turns that around, nothing anyone says about their hardware, or software in that area makes any sense, if they’re defending it. Sales tell us everything we need to know about how much people like the products.

so, I’ve got this on order. I’ve also got several controllers for my iPad and iPhone which work. But that testimonial, as well as yours, means little, overall, because of the declining sales.

This statement that I bolded is 100% unfiltered crap, and from a long-time Apple user to boot. Until the iPod came around, what did Apple lead in? It's never been in the lead in personal computer sales for the last 20 years, and probably more.

Sales can either tell us how much people like a product, or how cheap the product is. $40 Android phones from an assortment of vendors beat iPhone sales -- does that mean the iPhone is crap? Acer's PC sales eclipse Apple's Mac sales. Does that mean the Mac is crap? Sale volumes say very little about capabilities of a product.

Here: "I got this widget on sale for $X/2! It's not perfect, but it gets me to 60% of where I want to be, so, it'll be fine." Does this sound like anything to you?

I think your response is crap. You obviously didn’t understand what I wrote. Apple was bragging that they had the number one movie and Tv sales and rentals. Don’t give me BS about how Apple feels about marketshare, because I’m tired of hearing that garbage. Apple has ALWAYS made points about marketshare, when Jobs as there, after he left, and after he came back. Now that he’s gone, they still do. This is nothing new, and if you knew half as much about Apple as you think you do, you would know that.

as far as my saying, or even hinting that the products themselves were crap, well, where did I say that? You won’t find it, because I never said that. You made a very distorted statement about what I said. But yes, it’s true, gaming on the aTV is terrible. I’m not the only one to say that. Read any review that involves gaming, and it will agree. Is it all Apple’s fault? No, it’s also the developers. But Apple did make it more difficult by requiring that all games enable the Apple controller. They’ve stated that. And that’s from developers who do very well on Apple’s other iOS platforms.

innate capabilities aren’t the only thing that involves value. If developers don’t take advantage of it, then the value will be less. That’s really not difficult to understand. And right now, whether you like it or not, the state of gaming on the aTV isn’t very good. I do have hopes it will get better.

i don’t understand what that last part has to do with anything. It certainly has nothing to do with what I said. But, we see that Amazon just released a new Tv device for $69. It doesn’t play games, true. But are people buying these things for games, or to watch video? I’d bet that almost all of the use is for video.

Nice spin. Nice ad hominem too, and selective application of Apple's statements about marketshare over time.

Done here, and disappointed. Have a nice night.

Oh, don’t give me that. I just threw your own word back at you. If you’re not happy about that, then why did you start it by throwing it at me? Was I ticked? You bet. I expected better from you after all.

i’ve seen Apple’s history from the beginning, real time, and I knew all of these guys from the Homebrew Computer Club before most people here were out of kindergarten. I understand their talk about marketshare quite well. If you disagree, come back and talk about it. Don’t slink away.

Amazon takes on Apple TV 4K with updated Fire TV featuring HDR, Dolby Atmos support

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