I totally believe this is faster than using a card - chip cards may be more secure, but they are SLOW! Apple Pay is neat and really convenient, but the majority of the stores around here either don’t accept it, or it’s not clear if they do or not so I end up using my credit card instead. “I refuse to shop at a store that doesn’t take Apple Pay” - seriously??? We are no where near any sort of standard for NFC payment systems, so the patchwork is going to continue for a while, and completely cutting off 60% of your shopping options because you’re too lazy to pull out your credit card seems a bit daft to me.
Many people use the Cartwheel app for store discounts, so they already have the bar code up to scan, so this isn’t adding any steps for theml, and the additional 5% discount with the red card is reason enough for me to use the red card instead of my Discover or Master card.
I thought NFC based terminals were standardized - that’s why they all accept both Apple Pay and whatever the heck the Android NFC payment method du jour is called. It’s just that many merchants haven’t figured out how to turn that feature on (or keep it on) and some - like Target - deliberately disable it. I could have sworn I used Apple Pay at a Target store a few days after it came out, only to see it disabled the next time I visited the same store. Target keeps touting their Wallet apps features when asked about NFC based payment methods - it’s like your typical Republican politician deflecting whenever asked a question that requires a fact-based answer. It’s fine that they have a nice app - but let your customers decide to use it, NFC, or whatever other form of payment they prefer. They’re not mutually exclusive!
But aside from not trusting Target to keep my CC/debit/bank info secure, this “store-specific” app is just not scalable. Imagine if every store had “their” app - soon I’d have to have a couple dozen apps to install!
As an aside: I thought Apple Pay supported rewards/store cards through which Target could provide its discounts and collect customer usage. Or have I begun to hallucinate?
I can see why Target wants to capture all that data at checkout.
They (not necessarily Target, though I wouldn't doubt it) also use the data and loyalty programs to sell your purchasing info to Facebook, Google, etc.
christopher126 said: re: ">90% of companies where the founder dies and is replaced by professional CEO's eventually go out of business. Apple, Boeing. Ford, McDonalds, etc., are the exceptions and not the rule."
Don't count Apple out yet... they seem to be working hard at it.
I totally believe this is faster than using a card - chip cards may be more secure, but they are SLOW! Apple Pay is neat and really convenient, but the majority of the stores around here either don’t accept it, or it’s not clear if they do or not so I end up using my credit card instead. “I refuse to shop at a store that doesn’t take Apple Pay” - seriously??? We are no where near any sort of standard for NFC payment systems, so the patchwork is going to continue for a while, and completely cutting off 60% of your shopping options because you’re too lazy to pull out your credit card seems a bit daft to me.
I don't find chip cards to be slow. It seems dependent on the type of reader, and maybe the connection? At places where it works well, I have a hard time seeing how Apple Pay would be any faster (besides the time difference in getting it out of your pocket/wallet).
But, you've nailed the problem why even though I have an iPhone and my bank even keeps prompting me to setup Apple Pay (yet I haven't), is that I have no idea where it works and where it doesn't. It takes longer to try with Apple Pay and find out it doesn't work, than to just use what I know works. Privacy issues aside, Apple Pay seems more cumbersome. (And, I'm a tech guy... imagine the average non-technical user.)
Refusing a 'payment method' is just daft, arrogant and shortsighted to say the least.
Stupid CEO!
>90% of companies where the founder dies and is replaced by professional CEO's eventually go out of business. Apple, Boeing. Ford, McDonalds, etc., are the exceptions and not the rule. 85% of Fortune 500 companies in 1950 are now out of business. Why Americans continue to show such reverence (and high salaries) to CEO's is beyond me!
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Refusing a payment method is about as stupid to refuse to buy at a shop because of a payment method
Wee shop at Target and I will NEVER use their new pay system. The massive breach they suffered a few years ago shows how inept they they are at this sort of thing. Why can’t they just get smart and use prove, safe, secure e systems like Apple Pay. If they really don’t care about expanding their base to wealthier customers, them they will suffer in the competitive wars. Amazon will eat their lunch and they will just become another Walmart, or CVS. Bye, bye Target.
I don't find chip cards to be slow. ... Privacy issues aside, Apple Pay seems more cumbersome. (And, I'm a tech guy... imagine the average non-technical user.)
When ApplePay is implemented properly all it requires is holding the phone near the reader for a moment after Touch/FaceID authorisation and then the payment is complete. It’s incredibly fast and easy.
When you have a stupid merchant who badly implements ApplePay and still wants you to go through the whole touchpad process including entering a pin, then ApplePay is annoying and slow, like a credit card.
I totally believe this is faster than using a card - chip cards may be more secure, but they are SLOW! Apple Pay is neat and really convenient, but the majority of the stores around here either don’t accept it, or it’s not clear if they do or not so I end up using my credit card instead. “I refuse to shop at a store that doesn’t take Apple Pay” - seriously??? We are no where near any sort of standard for NFC payment systems, so the patchwork is going to continue for a while, and completely cutting off 60% of your shopping options because you’re too lazy to pull out your credit card seems a bit daft to me.
Many people use the Cartwheel app for store discounts, so they already have the bar code up to scan, so this isn’t adding any steps for theml, and the additional 5% discount with the red card is reason enough for me to use the red card instead of my Discover or Master card.
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It isn't just cutting off 60% of your options and being lazy...it is understanding that those 60% could, and probably will, be hacked at some point and have your card# stolen. When using Apple Pay that is eliminated due to the tokenized processing, that isn't done when use your card directly. It isn't just convenience it is account security.
If anyone is lazy it is the stores that don't update their POS systems to handle NFC and tokenized transactions.
Also, remember Target's new system while allegedly faster (which it isn't, as I have tried it), still it open to hacking and getting direct access to your account, as the transactions aren't tokenized.
I totally believe this is faster than using a card - chip cards may be more secure, but they are SLOW! Apple Pay is neat and really convenient, but the majority of the stores around here either don’t accept it, or it’s not clear if they do or not so I end up using my credit card instead. “I refuse to shop at a store that doesn’t take Apple Pay” - seriously??? We are no where near any sort of standard for NFC payment systems, so the patchwork is going to continue for a while, and completely cutting off 60% of your shopping options because you’re too lazy to pull out your credit card seems a bit daft to me.
Many people use the Cartwheel app for store discounts, so they already have the bar code up to scan, so this isn’t adding any steps for theml, and the additional 5% discount with the red card is reason enough for me to use the red card instead of my Discover or Master card.
You’re clueless about why people prefer AP. Hint: it’s not about being “lazy” as you claim. The speed of AP is just an added benefit, it’s the security that is tantamount. Target sucks at security as they have proven.
christopher126 said: re: ">90% of companies where the founder dies and is replaced by professional CEO's eventually go out of business. Apple, Boeing. Ford, McDonalds, etc., are the exceptions and not the rule."
Don't count Apple out yet... they seem to be working hard at it.
Yes by growing even beyond its size and success when Jobs was alive. Apple is and continues to be the most successful public company in the history of humanity. More so under Cook than Jobs. Your DOOM scenario is just concern-troll fantasy.
And no, it doesn’t take more time to figure out if AP works, it takes half a second to look for the NFC logo and/or waive your phone. Or to simply ask “Do yo accept tap to pay?” Scary stuff I know. Sounds to me you’re just afraid of new things. It happens.
I don't find chip cards to be slow. It seems dependent on the type of reader, and maybe the connection? At places where it works well, I have a hard time seeing how Apple Pay would be any faster (besides the time difference in getting it out of your pocket/wallet).
But, you've nailed the problem why even though I have an iPhone and my bank even keeps prompting me to setup Apple Pay (yet I haven't), is that I have no idea where it works and where it doesn't. It takes longer to try with Apple Pay and find out it doesn't work, than to just use what I know works. Privacy issues aside, Apple Pay seems more cumbersome. (And, I'm a tech guy... imagine the average non-technical user.)
In my personal experience, ApplePay is significantly faster. At the supermarket yesterday, I held up my phone for what must have been (no exaggeration) no more than a second or two. Since I have my debit card as the default, I had to deal with the PIN step on the terminal (I just hit enter), then tapped the "Yes" button on the screen, and I was done. The cashier was just standing there waiting (presumably for a longer chip-and-pin transaction), until she realized that the payment process was complete, and she had to hit a button and hand me my receipt. This is the norm in the places where I regularly use ApplePay. It's that fast. My chip-and-pin experience at the Home Depot last week took at least three to four times as long.
Additionally, I don't randomly try ApplePay when I go to new stores hoping it will work. I simply ask if they accept contactless payments. When I get that blank stare like they have no clue what contactless even is, I simply say, "You know, ApplePay, Android Pay." At that point, they usually say one of three things; yes it works, I don't know, or No it doesn't. I almost never stand there waving my phone around in a futile attempt to get ApplePay to magically work. I did once, but that was only because it initially worked when the retailer got new credit card terminals, and then it suddenly stopped working for a couple of months until they got their act together and fixed it. I'm also vocal about suggesting that they deploy the feature, especially when they have new credit card terminals that should support the feature.
But all that aside, how can you even compare ApplePay to alternative methods when you haven't even set it up on your phone to actually give it try? That was a rhetorical question, you need not answer.
It wasn’t too long ago that Target had a massive data breach. Can Target really afford not to use the best, the most popular and most secure forms of payment. I guess only time will tell.
Target caters to, and (pun intended) targets it's primary customers with programs like this. They know what their customers like. They know who their customers are. They know their average customer is approx. 40 years old, college graduate, making $64K a year, and might have children. They don't really, really care about the 5.5% of customers who use Apple Pay as a mobile payment solution, the 5.1% that use Walmart Pay, the 3.3% that use Samsung Pay, or the 1.8% that use Android Pay.
Besides, I bet you can easily find anecdotal evidence from customers who've actually used the feature that will show they are happy with the process and the savings.
I won’t deny that Target knows it’s custumers better than anyone, but a 40 year old with a college degree in the US would most likely have an iPhone. Meaning that a 40 year old would most like want to use something like Apple Pay.
That is, if those metrics are real. Are those numbers in your post Tenderbites real or was it an example? If not real, than forget about this post.
Of course those metrics are real. Who uses made up metrics? Sources: Target https://corporate.target.com/press/corporate ; Mobile payments https://www.pymnts.com/mobile-wallet-adoption-2017/ ; But you. You've made some assumptions that don't stand up to scrutiny. 40 year old with college degree most likely having an iPhone? Based on.... hunch maybe? Let's just say you're right, for the sake of conversation. Then you really take it next level with that iPhone owner would most likely want to use something like Apple Pay. Based on... a different hunch maybe? I say that because numbers don't actually support your assertion.
I've never seen any relevance whatsoever to Target. There's nothing unique about them. The only thing I ever remember buying at Target was a few jugs of Tide laundry detergent they had on sale a few years ago.
That's all I want - yet another Target App on my phone. They are so clunky to use. I have to scan everything I put in my cart to see if there's a discount? Good god.
And how do they store the Red Card information? Is it secure and in the Apple locked location? Is it just sitting in YET another location on their servers for someone to be able to hack?
Stop with all the store apps. I don't even like using the grocery/drug store VIP cards, much less an app that clutters my phone.
christopher126 said: re: ">90% of companies where the founder dies and is replaced by professional CEO's eventually go out of business. Apple, Boeing. Ford, McDonalds, etc., are the exceptions and not the rule."
Don't count Apple out yet... they seem to be working hard at it.
Yes by growing even beyond its size and success when Jobs was alive. Apple is and continues to be the most successful public company in the history of humanity. More so under Cook than Jobs. Your DOOM scenario is just concern-troll fantasy.
And no, it doesn’t take more time to figure out if AP works, it takes half a second to look for the NFC logo and/or waive your phone. Or to simply ask “Do yo accept tap to pay?” Scary stuff I know. Sounds to me you’re just afraid of new things. It happens.
Garbage. Will not use. I implore others to avoid as well. No reason to not take NFC payments at this point in the game. Target wonders why sales have slumped and why their Black Friday was a failure. They don’t listen to what their customers want.
Target should be accepting NFC payments but I don't understand how this is garbage for people that have the REDcard. I use the app all the time for Cartwheel offers. This is way more convenient since you scan the Cartwheel offer and its paying at the same time with your Target card.
Scanning bar codes is garbage
What's the big deal? I always use self checkout at Target so scanning one more item that actually offers me discounts and is paying at the same time is garbage? Pretty silly.
I totally believe this is faster than using a card - chip cards may be more secure, but they are SLOW! Apple Pay is neat and really convenient, but the majority of the stores around here either don’t accept it, or it’s not clear if they do or not so I end up using my credit card instead. “I refuse to shop at a store that doesn’t take Apple Pay” - seriously??? We are no where near any sort of standard for NFC payment systems, so the patchwork is going to continue for a while, and completely cutting off 60% of your shopping options because you’re too lazy to pull out your credit card seems a bit daft to me.
Many people use the Cartwheel app for store discounts, so they already have the bar code up to scan, so this isn’t adding any steps for theml, and the additional 5% discount with the red card is reason enough for me to use the red card instead of my Discover or Master card.
You’re clueless about why people prefer AP. Hint: it’s not about being “lazy” as you claim. The speed of AP is just an added benefit, it’s the security that is tantamount. Target sucks at security as they have proven.
Security may be the reason for some people, but for most people I know, they use Appale Pay because it’s convenient. I never use a debit card and watch my credit card activity, so I’ve never lost a dime from any of the credit card hacks.
Some stores clearly indicate that they take Apple Pay, but there are many who have the requisite hardware but don’t accpt it, or don’t have it clearly marked. (The clerks don’t always know, either). If I’m at a store that I know accepts Apple Pay, I use it, but half the time I’ve already got my credit card out and ready to stick in the reader by the time the wifi/NFC symbol comes up on the screen. At that point it’s just as easy to use my card.
I don't find chip cards to be slow. ... Privacy issues aside, Apple Pay seems more cumbersome. (And, I'm a tech guy... imagine the average non-technical user.)
When ApplePay is implemented properly all it requires is holding the phone near the reader for a moment after Touch/FaceID authorisation and then the payment is complete. It’s incredibly fast and easy.
When you have a stupid merchant who badly implements ApplePay and still wants you to go through the whole touchpad process including entering a pin, then ApplePay is annoying and slow, like a credit card.
I’m guessing you’ve only used the latter.
You have to look at the poster making the comment...
ApplePay is super easy with the watch. The best is at a drive-thru, where you don't need to fumble to get the wallet out of a coat - just double tap and reach over to the terminal the attendant is holding. Done.
I am realistic though - if you already have your wallet out and just reach to get a credit card with NFC, then it is as fast as the phone. Not as secure, but just as fast. The time savings is when you have your phone out and wallet is not (and most people seem to be on their phone these days). Or you don't have your wallet on you at all when going out for a run or stroll...
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of payment they prefer. They’re not mutually exclusive!
But aside from not trusting Target to keep my CC/debit/bank info secure, this “store-specific” app is just not scalable. Imagine if every store had “their” app - soon I’d have to have a couple dozen apps to install!
As an aside: I thought Apple Pay supported rewards/store cards through which Target could provide its discounts and collect customer usage. Or have I begun to hallucinate?
Don't count Apple out yet... they seem to be working hard at it.
I don't find chip cards to be slow. It seems dependent on the type of reader, and maybe the connection? At places where it works well, I have a hard time seeing how Apple Pay would be any faster (besides the time difference in getting it out of your pocket/wallet).
But, you've nailed the problem why even though I have an iPhone and my bank even keeps prompting me to setup Apple Pay (yet I haven't), is that I have no idea where it works and where it doesn't. It takes longer to try with Apple Pay and find out it doesn't work, than to just use what I know works. Privacy issues aside, Apple Pay seems more cumbersome. (And, I'm a tech guy... imagine the average non-technical user.)
When you have a stupid merchant who badly implements ApplePay and still wants you to go through the whole touchpad process including entering a pin, then ApplePay is annoying and slow, like a credit card.
I’m guessing you’ve only used the latter.
And no, it doesn’t take more time to figure out if AP works, it takes half a second to look for the NFC logo and/or waive your phone. Or to simply ask “Do yo accept tap to pay?” Scary stuff I know. Sounds to me you’re just afraid of new things. It happens.
Additionally, I don't randomly try ApplePay when I go to new stores hoping it will work. I simply ask if they accept contactless payments. When I get that blank stare like they have no clue what contactless even is, I simply say, "You know, ApplePay, Android Pay." At that point, they usually say one of three things; yes it works, I don't know, or No it doesn't. I almost never stand there waving my phone around in a futile attempt to get ApplePay to magically work. I did once, but that was only because it initially worked when the retailer got new credit card terminals, and then it suddenly stopped working for a couple of months until they got their act together and fixed it. I'm also vocal about suggesting that they deploy the feature, especially when they have new credit card terminals that should support the feature.
But all that aside, how can you even compare ApplePay to alternative methods when you haven't even set it up on your phone to actually give it try? That was a rhetorical question, you need not answer.
Mobile payments https://www.pymnts.com/mobile-wallet-adoption-2017/ ; But you. You've made some assumptions that don't stand up to scrutiny. 40 year old with college degree most likely having an iPhone? Based on.... hunch maybe? Let's just say you're right, for the sake of conversation. Then you really take it next level with that iPhone owner would most likely want to use something like Apple Pay. Based on... a different hunch maybe? I say that because numbers don't actually support your assertion.
And how do they store the Red Card information? Is it secure and in the Apple locked location? Is it just sitting in YET another location on their servers for someone to be able to hack?
Stop with all the store apps. I don't even like using the grocery/drug store VIP cards, much less an app that clutters my phone.
Some stores clearly indicate that they take Apple Pay, but there are many who have the requisite hardware but don’t accpt it, or don’t have it clearly marked. (The clerks don’t always know, either). If I’m at a store that I know accepts Apple Pay, I use it, but half the time I’ve already got my credit card out and ready to stick in the reader by the time the wifi/NFC symbol comes up on the screen. At that point it’s just as easy to use my card.
ApplePay is super easy with the watch. The best is at a drive-thru, where you don't need to fumble to get the wallet out of a coat - just double tap and reach over to the terminal the attendant is holding. Done.
I am realistic though - if you already have your wallet out and just reach to get a credit card with NFC, then it is as fast as the phone. Not as secure, but just as fast. The time savings is when you have your phone out and wallet is not (and most people seem to be on their phone these days). Or you don't have your wallet on you at all when going out for a run or stroll...