You're just acting like en entitled prick because you think Apple owes you something it doesn't. You think they work for you, when you're just one of tens of millions of customers...
I apologize that I did not quote the rest of your profanity-laced diatribe, but it does make me wonder... do you ever go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air?
I’m not being sarcastic or condescending by asking that question. I myself did just that yesterday. I did not keep the topic of this forum constantly on my mind, nor do I harbor ill will towards you or anyone else here, regardless of what you said.
Sometimes when discussing our favorite computing platform we end up spending way too much time in online forums. We may even find ourselves using that time to criticize our fellow Mac fans, using words we ought not in polite company, and expressing harsh sentiments that really have no place in a formum comprises of educated people like this one.
Not everyone will agree with my call on our beloved fruit company to offer a Mac Pro for the masses akin to the PowerMacs of old. I understand that. But like Rodney King once said, “can’t we all just get along?“
You should take your advice instead of making petty comments and only focusing on yourself. Even in this past reply you've said "our favorite computing platform" and "our beloved fruit company." That type of thinking is probably why you believe Apple owes you something.
Regardless of your perceived personal connection, your longterm investments in Macs, the amount soapboxing you've done to convert others to Macs, or the number of Apple stickers you've placed on your car it's still just a fucking company. No Mac user's identity should be wrapped up in Apple, and if something better comes along that suits your needs better I hope to god that you are able to see it.
PS: I've ordered Apple Pay stickers from Apple so I can hand out to local businesses that support NFC-based payments but aren't aware. I'm not doing this for Apple, even though it does help them. I'm doing it for myself because the faster Apple Pay (and NFC in general) reaches its tipping point to where I don't have to carry a wallet, risk physical cards being stolen or numbers stolen en route the better off I'll be.
What motivates some people to act like dickheads in the first place is what I don't understand.
Zero consequences.
"Opponent?"
Whoever’s on the receiving end. If someone’s devolving to insults, et. al., the assumption is that they have opposition. I mean, you’re not just going to do it for the sake of it. That’s defined as trolling, so it’s not relevant to the discussion of genuine discussions.
…hostile reactions to expressions of opinion and preference. Attacking that is strange behaviour, WHEN there IS no objective right or wrong.
I’ll agree wholeheartedly with the edited statement above.
What are the chances of this new computer having Intel processors? I'm guessing zero. As Apple is planning on switching to its own ARM-based processors in 2020, an Intel-based machine in 2019 would be obsolete in a matter of months.
What ARM processor would be able to run the kind of software pros need? If Apple does that they’re basically telling Pro uses to go Windows.
You're assuming that Apple isn't capable of designing their own custom ARM SoC that's on the same performance level as an Intel Xeon. Their chip designers are firing on all cylinders.
They can design something that will run Windows VM or current pro apps as good as they run now?
Since Windows is moving to ARM then my guess is that they won’t have to.
Observation: Apple or AI says the words "Mac Pro" and the AI forums assplode.
You pro dudes/ dudettes are a passionate lot. And bless you all, 'cause it makes great reading.
Haha....well yes it brings out the armchair engineers, executives, and industrial designers. I didn't know there were so many experts here yet I don't see them applying for a position at Apple.
You'd be surprised I suspect how many of us on AI worked either directly or indirectly for or with Apple.
But none of you ran it. The problem there is that you often don’t see the bigger picture.
Shouldn’t the Mac Pro be the most boring product in Apple’s lineup? Why do they need to spend all this time rethinking the pro desktop?
I mean, I know what you’re getting at, and I think it’s a valid argument. There’s something to be said for just going with what works. But it’s Apple we’re talking about. This is a corporate culture that’s just not satisfied unless they’re pushing the boundaries somehow. A translucent all in one. Branching out into the music player business. A clear cube where the discs pop out the top. A half sphere with a floating monitor. A music player with no buttons. Carving a laptop body out of a solid brick of aluminum.
The cheese grater is cemented as one as one of the greatest pieces of industrial design in history. I love my ‘09 to death. I also greatly appreciate the trash can and may wind up getting one as a stopgap. Apple tried something different with it and it didn’t really catch like they hoped. Just like the cube and buttonless shuffle. No doubt they learned a great deal on that project and their failures will make the next machine that much stronger. But they’re not going to retreat into mediocrity. And if all you want them to do is build an updated cheese grater... well I have a feeling you are going to be very disappointed.
I think Apple is making this much harder than it needs to be. Either get out of this market all together or swallow hard and give these people what they want which is a boring expandable box. Apple doesn’t need to reimagine or reinvent anything here. There’s plenty of other places for them to do that. Oh and while they’re at it how about shit or get off the pot re: Mac Mini. Either kill it or update it.
Well, it's clear that what the majority want is an Android phone; I mean, that's what the majority buy, isn't it? So why doesn't Apple just give these people what they want, dump iOS and start making Android phones?
What you're describing (unsurprisingly) is the classic race to the bottom that Apple avoids by not building devices for everybody. If people want a Dell box then they can go out and buy a Dell box. Apple cannot bring anything to this market where people just want commodity components at knock down price. It's ugly and it's crowded.
You've demonstrated a classic piece of reverse thinking that is very common around here. Many people are in love with the idea of being Apple users, and because it satisfies some internal need to feel that they are "different", they fail to examine one possible truth: that they would be better served by just buying one of the thousands of cheaper Windows boxes available to them. They want a beige box that can be expanded with off-the-shelf components that can be sourced from any back street stall vendor they can look up on Google. (And they want this even though they have no intention of ever opening the box and changing anything).
So instead of trying to force Apple into becoming a commodity box builder just so they can still claim some kind of perceived superiority by buying Apple, all they really need to do is open up a fresh browser window and take a look at Dell.
You are a PC hobbyist. The middle class wants the iMac, laptops, and iPads which they don’t upgrade. You would be happier with a Dell.
You are perhaps one of the greatest mind readers I’ve ever seen this forum. A diehard Mac lover like me since 1984 who has refused to buy a single Windows PC during all of those years somehow is a “PC hobbyist who would be happier with Dell”!
I’m obviously being deliberately sarcastic here. But the point is that if you’re so wrong about me, and your certainly are, you are definitely just as wrong about what you think regarding “the middle class buyer who wants a pro level Mac.“
Middle-class buyers of Macs, in terms of sheer numbers of people, are often happy with an iMac. But this thread is discussing the Mac Pro. And yes there are all categories of people who would want to Mac Pro for the purpose of being able to expand it overtime and thereby getting more life from that Mac, which they know they cannot do with an iMac.
We cannot talk in terms of “the majority of people,“ for like I said in my previous post, “the majority of people“ use silly Windows PCs! And to extend that logical thinking further, no one can defend Apple’s decision to target only the wealthy with a new Mac Pro costing $10,000 or more, seeing Apple would be limiting their own marketshare for such a machine by pricing it so high. That goes against the iOS device marketing philosophy of pricing it low enough that “most people“ can afford it. And even though I will admit that a Mac is not an iOS device, the point is that Apple is in business to make money and you make money by selling more devices. You know you’re not going to sell more devices if you price them too high.
Saying this another way, to come out with a Mac Pro that is utterly unaffordable to most people in the middle class who otherwise would want to buy an expandable Mac (not a silly Dell running Windoze) is to aim for one thing and one thing only: to profit off the super rich, and from professionals who have contract jobs and can make their money back from that Mac purchase after a single contract, and from rich YouTubers who review these Macs all the time and make millions of dollars a year from YouTube or Patreon. But at the end of the day, the number of these “rich” people who could afford such a Mac Pro are teensy tiny compared to the number of middle-class Mac buyers who would buy such an expandable Mac if the price point of such a Mac was substantially lower like the PowerMacs of old.
Why would a large number of Mac only computer buyers want an expandable Mac? Because if the price is low enough, it’s more frugal to buy that Mac because you can expand it overtime and get more life out of the Mac and keep the computer in tiptop shape performance wise through those years. That’s really what the Power Mac was all about. That’s why my own father purchased a power Mac G5 back in the day.
I honestly don’t know why some of you throw rocks at us Mac-only buyers who want and affordably priced Mac Pro. I just don’t understand it. Again, Apple really isn’t going to make a lot of money off of the Mac Pro anyway in terms of global numbers because Macs are not a significant share of the global PC market. And if they price a Mac Pro into the stratosphere, the share of the market they’re going to get for such a luxury item is even smaller. So it only makes logical sense that Apple come out with an expandable Mac for the masses, not only to sell more Macs but also to spread goodwill to the Mac faithful. There’s nothing wrong with bringing back the glory days of the Power Mac. Nothing wrong with it at all! This isn’t me simply being nostalgic. It is common sense.
I understand where you are coming from. I just don't think that it will happen in Tim Cook's Apple. He's an MBA, not a artist creator , software developer, or engineer.
He is an engineer. Industrial engineering.
He is first and foremost an MBA. When Apple releases an iPhone with a 10% profit margin I'll believe otherwise. Cook as been consistently great on the profit front.
Releasing an iPhone with a 10% profit margin wouldn't prove or disprove anything.
What are the chances of this new computer having Intel processors? I'm guessing zero. As Apple is planning on switching to its own ARM-based processors in 2020, an Intel-based machine in 2019 would be obsolete in a matter of months.
Because the second Apple releases a new computer, the previous model that people bought the week before will immediately stop working?
The current can is almost 3x the entry price of the £995 G5 tower (yes...not an imaginary dream...) in the UK.
This sort of repetitive garbage is why there is little tolerance left for “opinion”.
The 2003 low end G5 was $2399 at launch. After inflation that is $3037 in 2013 dollars. The cheapest 2013 Mac Pro was $2999.
What’s imaginary is that Apple has been raising Mac Pro prices because Tim Cook has been CEO. Or Steve Jobs for that matter.
Why“expression of opinion and preference” is “met with hostility” is because we’ve heard the SAME FUCKING ARGUMENT FOR THE PAST FUCKING DECADE FROM BEFORE THE FUCKING IPHONE LAUNCH.
I think that deserves a bit of colorful language from Soli who everyone knows there’s no great love lost between us and have flamed each other for even longer than before 2003.
Soli may be an “asshole” but so are people that don’t bother to do even cursory research or understand Apple history but claim that Jobs would do this or Apple didn’t used to do that and they want a pony right now or Apple is a greedy terrible company with too much money and Tim Cook is the Anti-Jobs.
You're just acting like en entitled prick because you think Apple owes you something it doesn't. You think they work for you, when you're just one of tens of millions of customers...
I apologize that I did not quote the rest of your profanity-laced diatribe, but it does make me wonder... do you ever go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air?
I’m not being sarcastic or condescending by asking that question. I myself did just that yesterday. I did not keep the topic of this forum constantly on my mind, nor do I harbor ill will towards you or anyone else here, regardless of what you said.
Sometimes when discussing our favorite computing platform we end up spending way too much time in online forums. We may even find ourselves using that time to criticize our fellow Mac fans, using words we ought not in polite company, and expressing harsh sentiments that really have no place in a formum comprises of educated people like this one.
Not everyone will agree with my call on our beloved fruit company to offer a Mac Pro for the masses akin to the PowerMacs of old. I understand that. But like Rodney King once said, “can’t we all just get along?“
You should take your advice instead of making petty comments and only focusing on yourself. Even in this past reply you've said "our favorite computing platform" and "our beloved fruit company." That type of thinking is probably why you believe Apple owes you something.
Regardless of your perceived personal connection, your longterm investments in Macs, the amount soapboxing you've done to convert others to Macs, or the number of Apple stickers you've placed on your car it's still just a fucking company. No Mac user's identity should be wrapped up in Apple, and if something better comes along that suits your needs better I hope to god that you are able to see it.
PS: I've ordered Apple Pay stickers from Apple so I can hand out to local businesses that support NFC-based payments but aren't aware. I'm not doing this for Apple, even though it does help them. I'm doing it for myself because the faster Apple Pay (and NFC in general) reaches its tipping point to where I don't have to carry a wallet, risk physical cards being stolen or numbers stolen en route the better off I'll be.
My god. Someone is "entitled" and a "prick" for using the word "should" on an unaffiliated Apple message board as a shortening of "I think they should", and "thinks Apple owes them something" simply for expressing an opinion on what would make Apple's product better. They need to sort out their identity, what a loser.
Meanwhile the free-thinking, super-smart Soli is buying Apple stickers for his local businesses. What a star.
The Mac SE retailed for $2499, in 1987. The Mac II went on sale for about $5500 in 1987, and the IIfx sold for $9000 at a minimum, starting in 1990.
The Original PowerBook G3 (the 3500) originally sold for $6499.
This is not a Cook phenomenon. Apple has never been afraid to charge a pretty penny for things.
My IBM PC - Dos 1.1 - 2 floppy drives - fuzzy Electrohome CGA monitor / CGA card and a cheap dot matrix from 1981 cost just shy of $15K USD (with 20% educational discount) in today's dollars. Kids today don't know the value of computers
You're just acting like en entitled prick because you think Apple owes you something it doesn't. You think they work for you, when you're just one of tens of millions of customers...
I apologize that I did not quote the rest of your profanity-laced diatribe, but it does make me wonder... do you ever go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air?
I’m not being sarcastic or condescending by asking that question. I myself did just that yesterday. I did not keep the topic of this forum constantly on my mind, nor do I harbor ill will towards you or anyone else here, regardless of what you said.
Sometimes when discussing our favorite computing platform we end up spending way too much time in online forums. We may even find ourselves using that time to criticize our fellow Mac fans, using words we ought not in polite company, and expressing harsh sentiments that really have no place in a formum comprises of educated people like this one.
Not everyone will agree with my call on our beloved fruit company to offer a Mac Pro for the masses akin to the PowerMacs of old. I understand that. But like Rodney King once said, “can’t we all just get along?“
You should take your advice instead of making petty comments and only focusing on yourself. Even in this past reply you've said "our favorite computing platform" and "our beloved fruit company." That type of thinking is probably why you believe Apple owes you something.
Regardless of your perceived personal connection, your longterm investments in Macs, the amount soapboxing you've done to convert others to Macs, or the number of Apple stickers you've placed on your car it's still just a fucking company. No Mac user's identity should be wrapped up in Apple, and if something better comes along that suits your needs better I hope to god that you are able to see it.
PS: I've ordered Apple Pay stickers from Apple so I can hand out to local businesses that support NFC-based payments but aren't aware. I'm not doing this for Apple, even though it does help them. I'm doing it for myself because the faster Apple Pay (and NFC in general) reaches its tipping point to where I don't have to carry a wallet, risk physical cards being stolen or numbers stolen en route the better off I'll be.
My god. Someone is "entitled" and a "prick" for using the word "should" on an unaffiliated Apple message board as a shortening of "I think they should", and "thinks Apple owes them something" simply for expressing an opinion on what would make Apple's product better. They need to sort out their identity, what a loser.
Meanwhile the free-thinking, super-smart Soli is buying Apple stickers for his local businesses. What a star.
You're just acting like en entitled prick because you think Apple owes you something it doesn't. You think they work for you, when you're just one of tens of millions of customers...
I apologize that I did not quote the rest of your profanity-laced diatribe, but it does make me wonder... do you ever go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air?
I’m not being sarcastic or condescending by asking that question. I myself did just that yesterday. I did not keep the topic of this forum constantly on my mind, nor do I harbor ill will towards you or anyone else here, regardless of what you said.
Sometimes when discussing our favorite computing platform we end up spending way too much time in online forums. We may even find ourselves using that time to criticize our fellow Mac fans, using words we ought not in polite company, and expressing harsh sentiments that really have no place in a formum comprises of educated people like this one.
Not everyone will agree with my call on our beloved fruit company to offer a Mac Pro for the masses akin to the PowerMacs of old. I understand that. But like Rodney King once said, “can’t we all just get along?“
You should take your advice instead of making petty comments and only focusing on yourself. Even in this past reply you've said "our favorite computing platform" and "our beloved fruit company." That type of thinking is probably why you believe Apple owes you something.
Regardless of your perceived personal connection, your longterm investments in Macs, the amount soapboxing you've done to convert others to Macs, or the number of Apple stickers you've placed on your car it's still just a fucking company. No Mac user's identity should be wrapped up in Apple, and if something better comes along that suits your needs better I hope to god that you are able to see it.
PS: I've ordered Apple Pay stickers from Apple so I can hand out to local businesses that support NFC-based payments but aren't aware. I'm not doing this for Apple, even though it does help them. I'm doing it for myself because the faster Apple Pay (and NFC in general) reaches its tipping point to where I don't have to carry a wallet, risk physical cards being stolen or numbers stolen en route the better off I'll be.
My god. Someone is "entitled" and a "prick" for using the word "should" on an unaffiliated Apple message board as a shortening of "I think they should", and "thinks Apple owes them something" simply for expressing an opinion on what would make Apple's product better. They need to sort out their identity, what a loser.
Meanwhile the free-thinking, super-smart Soli is buying Apple stickers for his local businesses. What a star.
That's hilarious
1) Yes, one is entitled if they claim what a company should make products that suit their specific needs regardless of their customer base or what the company ultimately wants.
2) As previously stated, they are free to all that wish to order them, Those who choose not to sit around bitching about Apple Pay being too slow or that Apple isn't doing enough to market it have had an option for 3 years to do something about it. I'm sure plenty of you have social anxiety when it comes to the simplest interactions, so if you're milquetoast about informing vendor then their card reader also accepts NFC-based payments, then you enjoy your safe spaces—no one is saying you should inform clueless vendors how they can make your transactions safer and faster or how they may be able to increase sales (but it would be nice if you didn't then complain about it on an Internet forum).
3) I'm sure you do see it as hilarious since you can't seem to add anything but weak attempts at insults these days, but not everyone wants to sit around bitching something isn't done and then claiming "it's not my responsibility/job" when a simple solution is presented. But you do you, and if that means laughing at me for getting things done then so be it. You remind if this kid that started at McDonald's when he was 15yo. We only had friends in common who aughed at him for getting a job flipping burgers and having to work pretty much very weekend and evening. I think 5 years later he was a manager and I think know he's fairly high up in the company and doing very well for himself. Imagine if he had quit because some peers laughed at him for making an effort. I'm glad he saw through their pettiness and veiled jealousy to see that success comes from being assertive and doing what's right for you, not waiting around for your "genius" to be discovered. But you do you.
You're just acting like en entitled prick because you think Apple owes you something it doesn't. You think they work for you, when you're just one of tens of millions of customers...
I apologize that I did not quote the rest of your profanity-laced diatribe, but it does make me wonder... do you ever go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air?
I’m not being sarcastic or condescending by asking that question. I myself did just that yesterday. I did not keep the topic of this forum constantly on my mind, nor do I harbor ill will towards you or anyone else here, regardless of what you said.
Sometimes when discussing our favorite computing platform we end up spending way too much time in online forums. We may even find ourselves using that time to criticize our fellow Mac fans, using words we ought not in polite company, and expressing harsh sentiments that really have no place in a formum comprises of educated people like this one.
Not everyone will agree with my call on our beloved fruit company to offer a Mac Pro for the masses akin to the PowerMacs of old. I understand that. But like Rodney King once said, “can’t we all just get along?“
You should take your advice instead of making petty comments and only focusing on yourself. Even in this past reply you've said "our favorite computing platform" and "our beloved fruit company." That type of thinking is probably why you believe Apple owes you something.
Regardless of your perceived personal connection, your longterm investments in Macs, the amount soapboxing you've done to convert others to Macs, or the number of Apple stickers you've placed on your car it's still just a fucking company. No Mac user's identity should be wrapped up in Apple, and if something better comes along that suits your needs better I hope to god that you are able to see it.
PS: I've ordered Apple Pay stickers from Apple so I can hand out to local businesses that support NFC-based payments but aren't aware. I'm not doing this for Apple, even though it does help them. I'm doing it for myself because the faster Apple Pay (and NFC in general) reaches its tipping point to where I don't have to carry a wallet, risk physical cards being stolen or numbers stolen en route the better off I'll be.
My god. Someone is "entitled" and a "prick" for using the word "should" on an unaffiliated Apple message board as a shortening of "I think they should", and "thinks Apple owes them something" simply for expressing an opinion on what would make Apple's product better. They need to sort out their identity, what a loser.
Meanwhile the free-thinking, super-smart Soli is buying Apple stickers for his local businesses. What a star.
You're just acting like en entitled prick because you think Apple owes you something it doesn't. You think they work for you, when you're just one of tens of millions of customers...
I apologize that I did not quote the rest of your profanity-laced diatribe, but it does make me wonder... do you ever go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air?
I’m not being sarcastic or condescending by asking that question. I myself did just that yesterday. I did not keep the topic of this forum constantly on my mind, nor do I harbor ill will towards you or anyone else here, regardless of what you said.
Sometimes when discussing our favorite computing platform we end up spending way too much time in online forums. We may even find ourselves using that time to criticize our fellow Mac fans, using words we ought not in polite company, and expressing harsh sentiments that really have no place in a formum comprises of educated people like this one.
Not everyone will agree with my call on our beloved fruit company to offer a Mac Pro for the masses akin to the PowerMacs of old. I understand that. But like Rodney King once said, “can’t we all just get along?“
You should take your advice instead of making petty comments and only focusing on yourself. Even in this past reply you've said "our favorite computing platform" and "our beloved fruit company." That type of thinking is probably why you believe Apple owes you something.
Regardless of your perceived personal connection, your longterm investments in Macs, the amount soapboxing you've done to convert others to Macs, or the number of Apple stickers you've placed on your car it's still just a fucking company. No Mac user's identity should be wrapped up in Apple, and if something better comes along that suits your needs better I hope to god that you are able to see it.
PS: I've ordered Apple Pay stickers from Apple so I can hand out to local businesses that support NFC-based payments but aren't aware. I'm not doing this for Apple, even though it does help them. I'm doing it for myself because the faster Apple Pay (and NFC in general) reaches its tipping point to where I don't have to carry a wallet, risk physical cards being stolen or numbers stolen en route the better off I'll be.
My god. Someone is "entitled" and a "prick" for using the word "should" on an unaffiliated Apple message board as a shortening of "I think they should", and "thinks Apple owes them something" simply for expressing an opinion on what would make Apple's product better. They need to sort out their identity, what a loser.
Meanwhile the free-thinking, super-smart Soli is buying Apple stickers for his local businesses. What a star.
That's hilarious
1) Yes, one is entitled if they claim what a company should make products that suit their specific needs regardless of their customer base or what the company ultimately wants.
2) As previously stated, they are free to all that wish to order them, Those who choose not to sit around bitching about Apple Pay being too slow or that Apple isn't doing enough to market it have had an option for 3 years to do something about it. I'm sure plenty of you have social anxiety when it comes to the simplest interactions, so if you're milquetoast about informing vendor then their card reader also accepts NFC-based payments, then you enjoy your safe spaces—no one is saying you should inform clueless vendors how they can make your transactions safer and faster or how they may be able to increase sales (but it would be nice if you didn't then complain about it on an Internet forum).
3) I'm sure you do see it as hilarious since you can't seem to add anything but weak attempts at insults these days, but not everyone wants to sit around bitching something isn't done and then claiming "it's not my responsibility/job" when a simple solution is presented. But you do you, and if that means laughing at me for getting things done then so be it. You remind if this kid that started at McDonald's when he was 15yo. We only had friends in common who aughed at him for getting a job flipping burgers and having to work pretty much very weekend and evening. I think 5 years later he was a manager and I think know he's fairly high up in the company and doing very well for himself. Imagine if he had quit because some peers laughed at him for making an effort. I'm glad he saw through their pettiness and veiled jealousy to see that success comes from being assertive and doing what's right for you, not waiting around for your "genius" to be discovered. But you do you.
4) Yes, one is an insufferable bore if one insults and attempt to pedantically tear down other people on the internet for the crime of stating their opinion in a way that doesn't meet one's standards that ignore common usage of words.
5) Those who choose to sit around and gripe about Apple's various inadequacies are certainly not beyond mockery. But Apple's white knight, graciously donating his time to distribute Apple's stickers (they're free!) to the poor, ignorant masses of independent shopkeepers is just about the saddest thing I've ever heard.
6) I can't seem to add anything but weak attempts at insults these days? Hi pot, I'm kettle! Passive aggressive fermentation of pointless argument and pernickety nerdery has been your forte for years. Yeah, I'll laugh at it. I wish you well in your quest to being manager in the esteemed company of Apple sycophantry.
7) Numbered lists of internet argument points are so lame.
That assumes that "asshole" is the default condition, and that people only behave because they'll get in trouble if they don't. Over the course of a day you have many, many opportunities to do nasty things to other people without getting caught, but you don't. Why not?
My IBM PC - Dos 1.1 - 2 floppy drives - fuzzy Electrohome CGA monitor / CGA card and a cheap dot matrix from 1981 cost just shy of $15K USD (with 20% educational discount) in today's dollars.
There had to be more than what you've listed included in the purchase price. Ours was around $2500-ish with dual floppies.
Bottom line: Apple owes you nothing over what they purchase agreement included, just as you own them nothing but the cost of the machine that you choose to by.
Apple's success was built on the long term commitment if its Macintosh user base and before that the Apple II base. Without this commitment, it most likely would have gone extinct sometime in the 1990-ties.
The expectation from the committed user base is that Apple keep investing in them and their needs, and not just deliver a point in time box like most PC manufacturers do.
Apple used to deliver products that in sum comprised an ecosystem that their committed user base could live happily in, and Steve Jobs in particular understood how important this is for the longevity and continued success of the company.
Under Tim Cook, Apple has started peeling away components of the ecosystem removing items such as screens, not upgrading network components, TM capabilities and capacity, lobotomizing the server software, remove server configurations, not refreshing existing systems for literally years, remove the ability for the users to add and replace components to their system such as disk, memory, GPU, battery and other techcnologies gets cheaper and more capable over the lifetime of the system. Now most configurations are frozen in time, while before they could evolve and serve the user better over its lifetime.
Their obsession with anorexic thinness produce as a result systems cannot be fully utilized or expanded because there is no more room in the thermal envelope for faster components (we see this both in the trashcan and the new iMac Pro), or connecting the system for use in a real world situation leaves the user with a dongle and docking station hell, or a bunch of additional box clutter on their desktops (MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, iMac Pro.) Just to illustrate the madness of the situation, do a quick search for "rack mount for Mac Pro" and have a good laugh!
I see where you are coming from in the last paragraph as I am looking at a new small laptop Mac for web and mail when I am not using more powerful Macs. The MacBook Pro is overkill as all high end work is done on the Mac Pro but the MacBook seemed cheap and useful for my intended use then I saw I'd need and adapter to connect to anything I have and your point comes to mind. The MBA seems next best option but there is a new one due soon with a Retina screen but what're the odds it too will only have the single port? So I wait till the new MBA to see, if it has a range of ports I will get one if not I'll grab the current model maybe it will have a price drop whilst stocks last. The Mac Pro hasn't been an issue in the thermal / upgradability area as all my peripherals hang nicely off TB or USB3 and I was so sick of the weight of the Cheese-graters anyway.
[...] Apple's white knight, graciously donating his time to distribute Apple's stickers (they're free!) to the poor, ignorant masses of independent shopkeepers is just about the saddest thing I've ever heard.
It would be if (s)he was doing it on behalf of Apple, but he isn't. Accelerating the uptake of Apple Pay benefits those of us who prefer it over other methods of payment. That particular activity serves his own interests. That it also happens to benefit Apple is a side effect and not the motivation.
[...] I wish you well in your quest to being manager in the esteemed company of Apple sycophantry.
I don't perceive @Soli's comments as sycophantic at all. The read I get from him is that he views Apple as one supplier of goods among many. If what they offer is something he wants, he buys it. If it isn't, he doesn't. What bothers him is not criticism of Apple, but expectations that fall outside free market economics. He champions Apple's freedom to do whatever the hell they want, whether you or I like or not. I don't know why it upsets him so much when others hope for (or even expect) Apple to do things he doesn't think belong on Apple's radar, but his reaction is not Apple worship. If anything, it's Apple agnostic, with the company simply being the theme we all have in common here.
MacPro said: [...] The MBA seems next best option but there is a new one due soon with a Retina screen
Are you sure there's a new Retina Air coming? The impression I have (based only on what I've read here on AI) is that the Air is in essentially a holding pattern, maybe getting an occasional upgrade if the new parts drop in without any significant redesign. Of course, I could be wrong. It's bene known to happen from time to all the time.
FWIW, I used an Air for a few months between when my old MacBook Pro died and the new one was released, and the screen technology didn't interfere with my enjoyment of it at all. Obviously when placed side-by-side with the new MBP the difference is plain to see, but the screen on the Air is certainly more than good enough for the vast majority of routine computing tasks, including photo editing that doesn't require the absolute best colour precision one can get.
You may be perfectly happy with an Air, even without a Retina screen.
MacPro said: [...] The MBA seems next best option but there is a new one due soon with a Retina screen
Are you sure there's a new Retina Air coming? The impression I have (based only on what I've read here on AI) is that the Air is in essentially a holding pattern, maybe getting an occasional upgrade if the new parts drop in without any significant redesign. Of course, I could be wrong. It's bene known to happen from time to all the time.
FWIW, I used an Air for a few months between when my old MacBook Pro died and the new one was released, and the screen technology didn't interfere with my enjoyment of it at all. Obviously when placed side-by-side with the new MBP the difference is plain to see, but the screen on the Air is certainly more than good enough for the vast majority of routine computing tasks, including photo editing that doesn't require the absolute best colour precision one can get.
You may be perfectly happy with an Air, even without a Retina screen.
To me, it feels like it will be updated to Retina. I’ve floated the idea that the Air moniker could be used to differentiate between Intel and ARM-Macs. If they could have what is essentially a 12” MacBook with Apple silicon for $100–200 less than the current 12” MB I think that would be a huge win for both Mac sales and the PC market as it will likely spur other vendors to adopt less expensive, ARM-based WinPCs.
Apple seems to have a history of both a seemingly unreasonably long holding pattern when a major revamp is coming (e.g.: Mac mini and Mac Pro) and when they plan to just sell through stock before kicking it to the curb without any forewarning (e.g.: classic iPod and iPod Shuffle).
Comments
Regardless of your perceived personal connection, your longterm investments in Macs, the amount soapboxing you've done to convert others to Macs, or the number of Apple stickers you've placed on your car it's still just a fucking company. No Mac user's identity should be wrapped up in Apple, and if something better comes along that suits your needs better I hope to god that you are able to see it.
PS: I've ordered Apple Pay stickers from Apple so I can hand out to local businesses that support NFC-based payments but aren't aware. I'm not doing this for Apple, even though it does help them. I'm doing it for myself because the faster Apple Pay (and NFC in general) reaches its tipping point to where I don't have to carry a wallet, risk physical cards being stolen or numbers stolen en route the better off I'll be.
I’ll agree wholeheartedly with the edited statement above.
What you're describing (unsurprisingly) is the classic race to the bottom that Apple avoids by not building devices for everybody. If people want a Dell box then they can go out and buy a Dell box. Apple cannot bring anything to this market where people just want commodity components at knock down price. It's ugly and it's crowded.
You've demonstrated a classic piece of reverse thinking that is very common around here. Many people are in love with the idea of being Apple users, and because it satisfies some internal need to feel that they are "different", they fail to examine one possible truth: that they would be better served by just buying one of the thousands of cheaper Windows boxes available to them. They want a beige box that can be expanded with off-the-shelf components that can be sourced from any back street stall vendor they can look up on Google. (And they want this even though they have no intention of ever opening the box and changing anything).
So instead of trying to force Apple into becoming a commodity box builder just so they can still claim some kind of perceived superiority by buying Apple, all they really need to do is open up a fresh browser window and take a look at Dell.
Releasing an iPhone with a 10% profit margin wouldn't prove or disprove anything.
No, my mistake.
It would prove he's an idiot.
Because the second Apple releases a new computer, the previous model that people bought the week before will immediately stop working?
The 2003 low end G5 was $2399 at launch. After inflation that is $3037 in 2013 dollars. The cheapest 2013 Mac Pro was $2999.
What’s imaginary is that Apple has been raising Mac Pro prices because Tim Cook has been CEO. Or Steve Jobs for that matter.
Why“expression of opinion and preference” is “met with hostility” is because we’ve heard the SAME FUCKING ARGUMENT FOR THE PAST FUCKING DECADE FROM BEFORE THE FUCKING IPHONE LAUNCH.
I think that deserves a bit of colorful language from Soli who everyone knows there’s no great love lost between us and have flamed each other for even longer than before 2003.
Soli may be an “asshole” but so are people that don’t bother to do even cursory research or understand Apple history but claim that Jobs would do this or Apple didn’t used to do that and they want a pony right now or Apple is a greedy terrible company with too much money and Tim Cook is the Anti-Jobs.
Get real.
The Mac SE retailed for $2499, in 1987. The Mac II went on sale for about $5500 in 1987, and the IIfx sold for $9000 at a minimum, starting in 1990.
The Original PowerBook G3 (the 3500) originally sold for $6499.
This is not a Cook phenomenon. Apple has never been afraid to charge a pretty penny for things.
Meanwhile the free-thinking, super-smart Soli is buying Apple stickers for his local businesses. What a star.
That's hilarious
2) As previously stated, they are free to all that wish to order them, Those who choose not to sit around bitching about Apple Pay being too slow or that Apple isn't doing enough to market it have had an option for 3 years to do something about it. I'm sure plenty of you have social anxiety when it comes to the simplest interactions, so if you're milquetoast about informing vendor then their card reader also accepts NFC-based payments, then you enjoy your safe spaces—no one is saying you should inform clueless vendors how they can make your transactions safer and faster or how they may be able to increase sales (but it would be nice if you didn't then complain about it on an Internet forum).
3) I'm sure you do see it as hilarious since you can't seem to add anything but weak attempts at insults these days, but not everyone wants to sit around bitching something isn't done and then claiming "it's not my responsibility/job" when a simple solution is presented. But you do you, and if that means laughing at me for getting things done then so be it. You remind if this kid that started at McDonald's when he was 15yo. We only had friends in common who aughed at him for getting a job flipping burgers and having to work pretty much very weekend and evening. I think 5 years later he was a manager and I think know he's fairly high up in the company and doing very well for himself. Imagine if he had quit because some peers laughed at him for making an effort. I'm glad he saw through their pettiness and veiled jealousy to see that success comes from being assertive and doing what's right for you, not waiting around for your "genius" to be discovered. But you do you.
5) Those who choose to sit around and gripe about Apple's various inadequacies are certainly not beyond mockery. But Apple's white knight, graciously donating his time to distribute Apple's stickers (they're free!) to the poor, ignorant masses of independent shopkeepers is just about the saddest thing I've ever heard.
6) I can't seem to add anything but weak attempts at insults these days? Hi pot, I'm kettle! Passive aggressive fermentation of pointless argument and pernickety nerdery has been your forte for years. Yeah, I'll laugh at it. I wish you well in your quest to being manager in the esteemed company of Apple sycophantry.
7) Numbered lists of internet argument points are so lame.
LOL! Fair enough!
There had to be more than what you've listed included in the purchase price. Ours was around $2500-ish with dual floppies.
https://247wallst.com/special-report/2016/04/15/how-much-a-computer-cost-the-year-you-were-born/4/
It would be if (s)he was doing it on behalf of Apple, but he isn't. Accelerating the uptake of Apple Pay benefits those of us who prefer it over other methods of payment. That particular activity serves his own interests. That it also happens to benefit Apple is a side effect and not the motivation.
I don't perceive @Soli's comments as sycophantic at all. The read I get from him is that he views Apple as one supplier of goods among many. If what they offer is something he wants, he buys it. If it isn't, he doesn't. What bothers him is not criticism of Apple, but expectations that fall outside free market economics. He champions Apple's freedom to do whatever the hell they want, whether you or I like or not. I don't know why it upsets him so much when others hope for (or even expect) Apple to do things he doesn't think belong on Apple's radar, but his reaction is not Apple worship. If anything, it's Apple agnostic, with the company simply being the theme we all have in common here.
FWIW, I used an Air for a few months between when my old MacBook Pro died and the new one was released, and the screen technology didn't interfere with my enjoyment of it at all. Obviously when placed side-by-side with the new MBP the difference is plain to see, but the screen on the Air is certainly more than good enough for the vast majority of routine computing tasks, including photo editing that doesn't require the absolute best colour precision one can get.
You may be perfectly happy with an Air, even without a Retina screen.
Apple seems to have a history of both a seemingly unreasonably long holding pattern when a major revamp is coming (e.g.: Mac mini and Mac Pro) and when they plan to just sell through stock before kicking it to the curb without any forewarning (e.g.: classic iPod and iPod Shuffle).