Apple choose Ireland as its European headquarters for a number of
reasons: EU membership, relatively low wages, high quality educational
system, low taxes, native English speaking people, .... The community
argument does not belong in this list. The community is Ireland in no
better than the community in Belgium , Sweden, UK, or any other EU
country.
Wow, after reading the comments on this thread I double-checked to see if I was still at AI and not inadvertently redirected to MR.
The rather small 1980 upstart Apple Computer Inc was expanding in Europe. Building a plant closer to the actual targeted market is hardly an unusual logistics move, nor is it unusual for different jurisdictions to offer incentives, occasionally with real estate but usually financial and almost always with tax arrangements. That's just business as usual and unlikely the only tax offer they got. I am obviously not privy to that specific decision process but can only imagine that the tax involved at the time was absolutely a factor —money always is and should be— but probably not a big one and orders of magnitude lower than today. From a less cynical approach and assuming that all incentive offers were rather equal, I would paraphrase Tim's statement that while looking for a foothold in Europe, they came to Ireland for the community … and stayed for the taxes.
I believe Tim Cook when he says that Apple didn’t established an office in Ireland in 1980 for tax reasons. However, Apple’s Ireland base has certainly been a convenient vehicle for dodging taxes in recent years.
All the tech companies have had facilities in Ireland. The population is smart, the universities capable, the summer days are long. Write a Limerick and enjoy life!
When someone begins a statement with "Honestly speaking" it is a fairly reasonable indicator that they are not speaking honestly. It's like using "no offence" or "I'm not a racist, but ..."; they tend to be followed up with offensive or racist verbiage.
Just like ( by the same logic of yours)the phrase “ it is a fairly reasonable indicator” means it is not a reasonable indicator at all. So, you have kind of chopped off your own legs here...
I’m not a paraplegic, but saying “chopping off your own legs” is not a fairly reasonable indicator of need for a wheelchair.
Yeah, not buying it Tim. It’s ok that Apple chose Ireland because of the advantageous tax structure at the time. And it’s noble that you’re choosing to keep Apple in Ireland regardless. But to say it wasn’t a factor undermines the man more than the company.
As much as I admire Tim Cook for the value he brings to Apple and his support for human rights and privacy this specific statement strikes me as being revisionist and disingenuous.
There is no shame in admitting that your current perspectives and priorities have changed. It doesn’t really matter whether the shift is due to more thorough reflection, maturity, or a more holistic view of business-community relationships. I totally believe Apple originally went to Ireland expressly for financial and tax priorities. So what? If what’s keeping Apple in Ireland today is now biased by other priorities, no big deal. Just don’t try to re-roll history to tailor the optics to contemporary norms. It’s a bad look.
With that said, Apple is by no means alone in such behavior. The winners always get to write history in terms that glorify their cause. But Apple hasn’t won this challenge yet, so this preemptive attempt at rewriting their history lands with a thud.
Be courageous Tim, don’t emulate the many examples of purposeful deception that spew forth from other leaders in today’s society. You’re better than that and Apple is better than that.
Well the statement not coming to Ireland to skirt taxes is technically true, but it would’ve been more accurate to say I’m here to save on taxes by doing it in Ireland.
Tim knows he is lying, he knows we know, they know, everyone knows. But he can't say it. Just as Tim's number one customer are the shareholders, he cannot say that.
Well, it's true still, their new tax haven in Jersey is in the English Channel and not the Caribbean.
This gives me a thought. I wonder if Google’s plan for those floating server barges wasn’t to eventually declare one of them their “headquarters” and station it in international waters so as to avoid taxes... I also had a vision of Apple’s circle campus floating in the ocean with those orange floaty things ringed around it.
Cook sounded so much like a politican I checked my back pocket to make sure my wallet was still there. It was not a good day for your credibility Mr Cook.
Tim knows he is lying, he knows we know, they know, everyone knows. But he can't say it. Just as Tim's number one customer are the shareholders, he cannot say that.
Humans are strange creatures.
Nope. The customer is the customer. The shareholders are the shareholders. Some companies manage to maximize shareholder value, others manage to “delight the customer”. Apple is famously the latter and it has been written about and studied. In fact the former CEO of GE described managing for the shareholder “the dumbest idea in the world”. Read more about it here:
Oh my! The perpetual Either/Or debate! -- We're in Ireland to minimize taxes
-- We're in Ireland to build a community
So, which ONE is it? It can't be both because that would confuse the simpletons who want everything to be: simple, black and white and expressable in a single soundbite or Tweet.
Cook sounded so much like a politican I checked my back pocket to make sure my wallet was still there. It was not a good day for your credibility Mr Cook.
All those trips to Washington during the last administration told me Cook was planning to eventually run for office. Steve Jobs never demonstrated any interest in hanging around politicians, although he did famously take the previous president to task while at a dinner.
Comments
The rather small 1980 upstart Apple Computer Inc was expanding in Europe. Building a plant closer to the actual targeted market is hardly an unusual logistics move, nor is it unusual for different jurisdictions to offer incentives, occasionally with real estate but usually financial and almost always with tax arrangements. That's just business as usual and unlikely the only tax offer they got.
I am obviously not privy to that specific decision process but can only imagine that the tax involved at the time was absolutely a factor —money always is and should be— but probably not a big one and orders of magnitude lower than today. From a less cynical approach and assuming that all incentive offers were rather equal, I would paraphrase Tim's statement that while looking for a foothold in Europe, they came to Ireland for the community … and stayed for the taxes.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/12/ireland-the-tax-haven-that-dare-not-speak-its-name/
There is no shame in admitting that your current perspectives and priorities have changed. It doesn’t really matter whether the shift is due to more thorough reflection, maturity, or a more holistic view of business-community relationships. I totally believe Apple originally went to Ireland expressly for financial and tax priorities. So what? If what’s keeping Apple in Ireland today is now biased by other priorities, no big deal. Just don’t try to re-roll history to tailor the optics to contemporary norms. It’s a bad look.
With that said, Apple is by no means alone in such behavior. The winners always get to write history in terms that glorify their cause. But Apple hasn’t won this challenge yet, so this preemptive attempt at rewriting their history lands with a thud.
Be courageous Tim, don’t emulate the many examples of purposeful deception that spew forth from other leaders in today’s society. You’re better than that and Apple is better than that.
Or something like that.
Well, it's true still, their new tax haven in Jersey is in the English Channel and not the Caribbean.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/world/apple-taxes-jersey.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/11/28/maximizing-shareholder-value-the-dumbest-idea-in-the-world/
Cool conspiracy theory tho.
-- We're in Ireland to minimize taxes
It can't be both because that would confuse the simpletons who want everything to be: simple, black and white and expressable in a single soundbite or Tweet.