Apple came to Ireland to build a community, not skirt taxes, Tim Cook says

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 49
    croprcropr Posts: 1,106member
    nunzy said:
    Tim said it.

    I believe it.

    And that's it.
    What a great example of critical thinking

    Apple choose Ireland as its European headquarters for a number of reasons: EU membership, relatively low wages, high quality educational system, low taxes, native English speaking people, .... The community argument does not belong in this list.    The community is Ireland in no better than the community in Belgium , Sweden, UK, or any other EU country.

    edited June 2018 nunzyavon b7fractaldreamsmuthuk_vanalingampropod[Deleted User]
  • Reply 22 of 49
    tipootipoo Posts: 1,133member
    He also said something like " “We don't stash money on some Caribbean island", while stashing it in Ireland. Not like he's not one to use half truths. 
  • Reply 23 of 49
    jony0jony0 Posts: 377member
    Wow, after reading the comments on this thread I double-checked to see if I was still at AI and not inadvertently redirected to MR.

    The rather small 1980 upstart Apple Computer Inc was expanding in Europe. Building a plant closer to the actual targeted market is hardly an unusual logistics move, nor is it unusual for different jurisdictions to offer incentives, occasionally with real estate but usually financial and almost always with tax arrangements. That's just business as usual and unlikely the only tax offer they got.
    I am obviously not privy to that specific decision process but can only imagine that the tax involved at the time was absolutely a factor —money always is and should be— but probably not a big one and orders of magnitude lower than today. From a less cynical approach and assuming that all incentive offers were rather equal, I would paraphrase Tim's statement that while looking for a foothold in Europe, they came to Ireland for the community … and stayed for the taxes.
    bb-15fractaldreams
  • Reply 24 of 49
    LatkoLatko Posts: 398member
    I believe Tim.  
    They are there for the great weather, the magnificent snowy mountains, the best pizza's and the great Eskimo tradition...
    SpamSandwichaylk[Deleted User]
  • Reply 25 of 49
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,753member
    xbit said:
    I believe Tim Cook when he says that Apple didn’t established an office in Ireland in 1980 for tax reasons. However, Apple’s Ireland base has certainly been a convenient vehicle for dodging taxes in recent years.
    Apple was attracted to Ireland in the 1980's BECAUSE it was a corporate tax haven, not because Apple simply loved the communities. 
    https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/12/ireland-the-tax-haven-that-dare-not-speak-its-name/
    SpamSandwichaylkpropod[Deleted User]
  • Reply 26 of 49
    All the tech companies have had facilities in Ireland.  The population is smart, the universities capable, the summer days are long.  Write a Limerick and enjoy life!
    fractaldreams
  • Reply 27 of 49
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    When someone begins a statement with "Honestly speaking" it is a fairly reasonable indicator that they are not speaking honestly. It's like using "no offence" or "I'm not a racist, but ..."; they tend to be followed up with offensive or racist verbiage.
    Just like ( by the same logic of yours)the phrase “ it is a fairly reasonable indicator” means it is not a reasonable indicator at all. So, you have kind of chopped off your own legs here...
    I’m not a paraplegic, but saying “chopping off your own legs” is not a fairly reasonable indicator of need for a wheelchair.  ;)
    SpamSandwichmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 28 of 49
    Yeah, not buying it Tim.  It’s ok that Apple chose Ireland because of the advantageous tax structure at the time. And it’s noble that you’re choosing to keep Apple in Ireland regardless. But to say it wasn’t a factor undermines the man more than the company. 
    propod
  • Reply 29 of 49
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,038member
    As much as I admire Tim Cook for the value he brings to Apple and his support for human rights and privacy this specific statement strikes me as being revisionist and disingenuous.

    There is no shame in admitting that your current perspectives and priorities have changed. It doesn’t really matter whether the shift is due to more thorough reflection, maturity, or a more holistic view of business-community relationships. I totally believe Apple originally went to Ireland expressly for financial and tax priorities. So what? If what’s keeping Apple in Ireland today is now biased by other priorities, no big deal. Just don’t try to re-roll history to tailor the optics to contemporary norms. It’s a bad look. 

    With that said, Apple is by no means alone in such behavior. The winners always get to write history in terms that glorify their cause. But Apple hasn’t won this challenge yet, so this preemptive attempt at rewriting their history lands with a thud. 

    Be courageous Tim, don’t emulate the many examples of purposeful deception that spew forth from other leaders in today’s society. You’re better than that and Apple is better than that. 
    Soliaylkpropod[Deleted User]
  • Reply 30 of 49
    discopants123discopants123 Posts: 3unconfirmed, member
    Well the statement not coming to Ireland to skirt taxes is technically true, but it would’ve been more accurate to say I’m here to save on taxes by doing it in Ireland.

    Or something like that.
    edited June 2018 [Deleted User]
  • Reply 31 of 49
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    mike54 said:
    Tim knows he is lying, he knows we know, they know, everyone knows. But he can't say it. Just as Tim's number one customer are the shareholders, he cannot say that.
    Humans are strange creatures.
    "Pleasant little lies make the world go 'round."
    muthuk_vanalingamcornchip
  • Reply 32 of 49
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,337member
    tipoo said:
    He also said something like " “We don't stash money on some Caribbean island", while stashing it in Ireland. Not like he's not one to use half truths. 

    Well, it's true still, their new tax haven in Jersey is in the English Channel and not the Caribbean.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/world/apple-taxes-jersey.html


    propodSpamSandwich[Deleted User]
  • Reply 33 of 49
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Well, it's true still, their new tax haven in Jersey is in the English Channel and not the Caribbean.
    This gives me a thought. I wonder if Google’s plan for those floating server barges wasn’t to eventually declare one of them their “headquarters” and station it in international waters so as to avoid taxes... I also had a vision of Apple’s circle campus floating in the ocean with those orange floaty things ringed around it.


    cornchip
  • Reply 34 of 49
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,635member
    Tim Cook is Apple CEO FOR LIFE. Period.
    I hope not.
    mike54SpamSandwich
  • Reply 35 of 49
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,662member
    Tim Cook is Apple CEO FOR LIFE. Period.
    I hope not.
    Can you name a better CEO? Nobody has yet to answer this question...
    aylkStrangeDays
  • Reply 36 of 49
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,031member
    Cook sounded so much like a politican I checked my back pocket to make sure my wallet was still there. It was not a good day for your credibility Mr Cook.
    propodSpamSandwichJohnnyCanadian[Deleted User]
  • Reply 37 of 49
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,610member
    mike54 said:
    Tim knows he is lying, he knows we know, they know, everyone knows. But he can't say it. Just as Tim's number one customer are the shareholders, he cannot say that.
    Humans are strange creatures.
    Nope. The customer is the customer. The shareholders are the shareholders. Some companies manage to maximize shareholder value, others manage to “delight the customer”. Apple is famously the latter and it has been written about and studied. In fact the former CEO of GE described managing for the shareholder  “the dumbest idea in the world”. Read more about it here:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/11/28/maximizing-shareholder-value-the-dumbest-idea-in-the-world/

    Cool conspiracy theory tho. 

    edited June 2018
  • Reply 38 of 49
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Oh my!  The perpetual Either/Or debate!
    -- We're in Ireland to minimize taxes
    -- We're in Ireland to build a community

    So, which ONE is it?
    It can't be both because that would confuse the simpletons who want everything to be:  simple, black and white and expressable in a single soundbite or Tweet.

    jony0
  • Reply 39 of 49
    johnbearjohnbear Posts: 160member
    there are many communities here in US that need help if TC and apple want to help
  • Reply 40 of 49
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    entropys said:
    Cook sounded so much like a politican I checked my back pocket to make sure my wallet was still there. It was not a good day for your credibility Mr Cook.
    All those trips to Washington during the last administration told me Cook was planning to eventually run for office. Steve Jobs never demonstrated any interest in hanging around politicians, although he did famously take the previous president to task while at a dinner.
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