Face ID iPad, MacBook, Mac mini, MacBook Pro, 11-inch iPad Pro in Apple's 2018 product lin...

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  • Reply 61 of 89
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,146member
    smalm said:
    iPad Pro 11"
    Another change in display size after only one year doesn't feel right.
    "Both are expected to have "full screen" presumably meaning edge-to-edge, and a "removed button design" once again implying FaceID will be incorporated on the line."
    Yeah, a notch and small bezels on a big iPad are sooo desirable.

    The problem with Apple is that it is believable...

    You could reduce the forehead and chin bezels down to the width of the existing side bezels and work in Face ID without a notch, presumably. That's more or less what I'm expecting to see. Does seem weird to have the 10.5" size be a one-off but ... /shrug.

  • Reply 62 of 89
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,146member

    Me, too. I just hope they're reasonably priced. I know they won't be, though. The buck-per-gigabyte Apple charged me to upgrade the storage in my MacBook Pro is a pretty clear indication of that.
    Actually, their pricing isn't that high, it's just that 8.0 GT/s NVMe PCIe x4 storage is fucking expensive! 2TB is still around $1000, and was a few hundred more when they first started offering that in the 2016 for a $1200 upcharge. Of course that's priced on top of the base model's 256GB, but still... not that bad. 

    Of course the "pro" users on here want slow-ass SATA interfaces so they can plug a bunch of cheapo SSDs into their machines, because only Starbucks users want 8.0 GT/s NVMe PCIe x4 storage, etc etc.
    anome
  • Reply 63 of 89
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    smalm said:
    iPad Pro 11"
    Another change in display size after only one year doesn't feel right.
    "Both are expected to have "full screen" presumably meaning edge-to-edge, and a "removed button design" once again implying FaceID will be incorporated on the line."
    Yeah, a notch and small bezels on a big iPad are sooo desirable.

    The problem with Apple is that it is believable...

    You could reduce the forehead and chin bezels down to the width of the existing side bezels and work in Face ID without a notch, presumably. That's more or less what I'm expecting to see. Does seem weird to have the 10.5" size be a one-off but ... /shrug.

    It's not a big deal in the global scheme of things, but changing the size of the chassis is a pain for those who have docking devices. Changing the physical dimensions means the new one won't fit, which means no upgrading. Of course, it's unlikely there are enough such users for it to be a serious consideration for Apple.
  • Reply 64 of 89
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    I’m 99.999999% sure the iPad Pros released in the fall will have a “notch” for Face ID

    here’s why

    A. The developer previews of iOS 12 have already shown on current iPads that they’ve moved the time from the center to the right. No info appears in the top center on current iPads. Pretty good sign.

    B. Uniformity with the iPhone X

    C. It occurs to me that the notch is a way for Apple to still differentiate even the most simplistic black and white line drawing representations of their hardware. If there is no notch in the B&W icon of an iPad, it’s just a freaking square (rectangle, whatever)

    D. It’s a very subtle reference to the “notch” in the Apple logo itself

    I think there is a simpler reason. 

    For FaceID to work, you have to look at the camera.  If the camera is in the bezel above the screen, then users would have the rather disjointed experience of looking above their screen to access the device, then refocusing on the screen to use it. 

    I dont think the notch is going anywhere until Apple figures out how to put the camera array behind the screen. 
    fastasleep
  • Reply 65 of 89
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,146member

    amarkap said:
    Please don't be too hard on me when I ask this question but I really want to know...what exactly is so great about the Mac-Mini?  What is the use case for this product?  I know a little bit about it (not much as I never owned it)...but I try to run through my head why would I buy this (or who is the target audience) and I simply cannot come up with reason.  Between, the iPad, the iPhone, the Apple TV, and either a Macbook series of laptops or the iMac...just about every use-case is covered with a product already by Apple. 

    Well, if someone can let me know perhaps I will consider getting one this fall if they release a new one.  Again, I speak only from an home/end user perspective.  There very well could be a market for the Mac-Mini in a business/educational/corporate/industrial capacity but that I haven't considered.

    Thanks in advance. 
    My two main uses:

    1) 2009 Mac mini as a home media/torrent/file server. I run Serviio for DLNA streaming media to my Apple TV (previously PlayStation) for TV viewing and iPad. I use file sharing in my office to access media to watch on VLC while working or my work files archive. This isn't hooked to the TV (but can be if needed), but sits below on the console next to my PlayStations and hard drives. I can access it remotely via Back to My Mac from wherever I am to retrieve a file or start a download or whatever, or just Screen Sharing locally.

    2) 2014 Mac mini at the office where I work out of set up for file server, caching server, and VPN. The previous location we worked, one of their IT consultants sold them a $3K home-built Linux server to replace the aging Xserve. I spent I don't know how many fucking hours of my life trying to get Netatalk/AFP to work with a decade's worth of old Mac OS files due to character set incompatibilities before we finally bailed on it and sold it, and they took my advice to just get a Mac mini and use the Drobos we had previously used as backup devices for storage. I set all that up in a couple hours and has worked nearly flawlessly since for the past few years. Again, no monitor and is managed via Screen Sharing either locally or remotely (in this case via a subdomain mapped to a static IP, not BTMM).

    In either case, I certainly don't need a Mac Pro, and there's no reason to stick a laptop on a rack or even the smaller iMac. 
    cecil4444
  • Reply 66 of 89
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    ireland said:

    tipoo said:
    >Barring a breakthrough in battery technology, enhanced wear time equates to a larger lithium ion cell, again suggesting "Series 4" will sport a larger form factor. 

    Li-ion capacities do grow in the same sizes slowly, year over year, so hopefully it's a slight update in chemistry rather than a larger design. Because the screen size rumors would work well in the same form factor cutting back the current bezels. 


    The sharp edge bezels of the current watch look whack, anyway.
    Actually, they don’t. 

    The problem with that picture is that it shows the screen with a white background. In reality, the screen is black, and most of the apps have black backgrounds. No one can really tell the edges of the screen are sharp. 
    fastasleep
  • Reply 67 of 89
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    I hope they offer up to 32GB, but don't expect them to allow you to upgrade it on your own. Where's the value proposition for them?
    The value proposition is in the sale of a computer.

    It drives me nuts that Apple seems to use the margins gouged out of upgraders to push down the price of the base model. In other words, someone who buys the base model gets their machine cheaper because Apple makes up the average selling price by charging me twice as much for RAM as it would cost from a third-party supplier. I'm sure the marketing department loves it because they can advertise a cheaper Mac, but it has a profoundly adverse affect on the "value proposition" for ME!

    It seems to me that Apple has built an extraordinarily successful business model by ignoring people who value “cheap” over everything else. This is why the Mac Mini hasn’t been updated (properly) in eons. 
    edited July 2018
  • Reply 68 of 89
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,146member
    jbdragon said:
    Apple really needs to update their product line. Who else waits years? Apple is almost treating the Mac line like it's dead and they just don't care. What's worse, these old computers just don't drop drown in price every year like they should as the tech gets older and older. Making them a even bigger rip-off.
    The only Macs that haven't been updated in "years" right now are:

    a) Mac mini — referenced in this article, so likely to finally get updated at which point it'll be current again 
    b) Mac Pro — coming next year by all indications

    Everything else is up to date in that they're all close to their average refresh cycle intervals and should be updated shortly (again, as referenced in this article).


  • Reply 69 of 89
    mike54 said:
    Apple should not view the mac mini as an entry level device. People want reasonably priced headless macs with user replaceable storage and ram and with decent graphics (or even better replaceable)  and one that can handle warm environments quietly without degrading performance.

    Back in the iPod days, the mini was introduced as a gateway to the Mac. But nowadays it’s iPhones and iPads that introduce users to the Apple ecosystem, and the Mac is just one spoke in the wheel now. So I understand why Apple hasn’t prioritized updating the mini. Desktop computer sales have long been in decline. The mini does have a loyal fanbase, but Apple wouldn’t be wrong to wonder what purpose the mini has anymore. I would *love* to see the mini updated as is, but I wonder if Apple has taken these last four years to reimagine the mini as something more...maybe a different kind of home hub or server, or even an opportunity to merge with Apple TV, Time Capsule, etc.? The mini has been overshadowed in its usefulness as a gateway to the Mac. Perhaps Apple has found a new mission for the mini?
  • Reply 70 of 89
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    amarkap said:
    Please don't be too hard on me when I ask this question but I really want to know...what exactly is so great about the Mac-Mini?  What is the use case for this product?  I know a little bit about it (not much as I never owned it)...but I try to run through my head why would I buy this (or who is the target audience) and I simply cannot come up with reason.  Between, the iPad, the iPhone, the Apple TV, and either a Macbook series of laptops or the iMac...just about every use-case is covered with a product already by Apple. 

    Well, if someone can let me know perhaps I will consider getting one this fall if they release a new one.  Again, I speak only from an home/end user perspective.  There very well could be a market for the Mac-Mini in a business/educational/corporate/industrial capacity but that I haven't considered.

    Thanks in advance. 
    Hard on you? Nope. 

    You said up front that you don’t use the product, but wanted more information about. Most people here just  like dropping their valueless opinion on a product they never use. 

    The Mac Mini is relatively cheap and doesn’t come with a screen, and that’s all I know about it, I’m afraid. Like most of Apple’s products, it’s updated in line with the value it has to the company, which isn’t that often. This isn’t a high performance box, so look very carefully at what you’re looking to do with it. If you’re not in a hurry then wait to see if Apple does update it. If you’re in a hurry then get an iMac. 
    edited July 2018 fastasleep
  • Reply 71 of 89
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,146member

    I've been speculating for a while, that if and when they release an updated mini, that's also going to be when we see another Apple-branded display, which we know they're working on alongside the new new Mac Pro ... because they said so.


    But, considering there aren't the same kind of time constraints in releasing a decent display (whatever updated iMac display minus the computer, basically — I know it's a bit more than that, but as involved as engineering a new Mac Pro), it could be ready way in advance of the Pro. 


    And — and this is key in my mind — I cannot imagine them releasing a 2018 mini after a four year break and no display to sell alongside it. They're not going to show it off with the LG UltraFine, are they? This presents a pretty lousy situation for Marketing, not to mention the upselling potential on the trillions (if the level of whining in forums is to be taken as an indicator) of new mini purchases coming when they release one. 


    Keep in mind they still have the discontinued Thunderbolt Display shown here:

    https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/

  • Reply 72 of 89
    smalmsmalm Posts: 674member
    stompy said:
    They ARE building a box that with satisfy most of the wish-casting on this thread: the 2019 Mac Pro.

    I'm not so sure we don't get a totally overengineered Cube 2.0, and I'm afraid next year I'll be looking for a well-preserved 2012 Mac Pro.
    (I hope I didn't ruin your fun, again...)
  • Reply 73 of 89
    Rayz2016 said:
    I hope they offer up to 32GB, but don't expect them to allow you to upgrade it on your own. Where's the value proposition for them?
    The value proposition is in the sale of a computer.

    It drives me nuts that Apple seems to use the margins gouged out of upgraders to push down the price of the base model. In other words, someone who buys the base model gets their machine cheaper because Apple makes up the average selling price by charging me twice as much for RAM as it would cost from a third-party supplier. I'm sure the marketing department loves it because they can advertise a cheaper Mac, but it has a profoundly adverse affect on the "value proposition" for ME!

    It seems to me that Apple has built an extraordinarily successful business model by ignoring people who value “cheap” over everything else. This is why the Mac Mini hasn’t been updated (properly) in eons. 
    "Cheap?" Are you saying that objecting to costs with zero value added (that is, the premium Apple charges for off-the-shelf components) somehow equates to valuing "cheap" over everything else?

    Consider this: I'm the only source of chocolate ice cream in the world. Your local store has vanilla ice cream, but not chocolate. Because I'm the only source I charge more for the chocolate than your local store charges for vanilla. Fair enough, right? But wait... Now I tell you that if you want chocolate ice cream you HAVE to buy your milk from me, too. A gallon of milk at your local store is three bucks, but from me it's five. Now you're paying a premium to get that particular flavour of ice cream, PLUS you're paying a much higher price for milk. You can justify the higher price for chocolate ice cream, but WTF is the deal with this milk thing?

    THAT'S how I feel about Apple's BTO pricing. I understand paying more for a Mac because it's a Mac. I do NOT understand the high prices for upgrades. BTO upgrades involve only swapping generic off-the-shelf components. I object to paying premium prices for that. I don't care if Apple enjoys success from this practice. It's bad for me. Maybe I'm just selfish, but I still place what's best for me ahead of what's best for Apple, Inc.

    I bought the highest-priced laptop Apple makes, with every available upgrade, so I think I've earned my grumbles. The prices of those upgrades made my butt pucker and spoiled a lot of the joy associated with getting a new machine. I'm not cheap, I just don't like being gouged.
    avon b7muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 74 of 89
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,339member
    Rayz2016 said:
    I hope they offer up to 32GB, but don't expect them to allow you to upgrade it on your own. Where's the value proposition for them?
    The value proposition is in the sale of a computer.

    It drives me nuts that Apple seems to use the margins gouged out of upgraders to push down the price of the base model. In other words, someone who buys the base model gets their machine cheaper because Apple makes up the average selling price by charging me twice as much for RAM as it would cost from a third-party supplier. I'm sure the marketing department loves it because they can advertise a cheaper Mac, but it has a profoundly adverse affect on the "value proposition" for ME!

    It seems to me that Apple has built an extraordinarily successful business model by ignoring people who value “cheap” over everything else. This is why the Mac Mini hasn’t been updated (properly) in eons. 
    Apple has had different business models over the years ranging from the desktop publishing boom, education, servers, consumer and pro software, digital hub (iMac) iPod, iPhone, services etc

    "Cheap" has very much been a core philosophy (LC, Performa, iMac, Mini etc) and even now, "cheap" offerings fill out the lines with the MBA, iPhone 6, SE, new iPad.

    Of course, that doesn't mean expensive products can't exist alongside cheaper offerings to provide a business model based on a mixed portfolio.

    And it's not only people who value cheap over everything else. It's also people that value the product but simply can't afford it.

    Personally, and right now I value the hardware as being overpriced, poorly designed and 'old' and that's why I won't touch it.

    We'll see what the refresh brings but "cheap" won't be going away. It's very much part of the business model and could become an even stronger part if services and content production take off.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 75 of 89
    hentaiboyhentaiboy Posts: 1,249member
    fastasleep said:
    Does seem weird to have the 10.5" size be a one-off but ... /shrug.
    Hopefully they might upgrade the non-Pro iPad to 10.5”
  • Reply 76 of 89
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,679member
    ireland said:

    tipoo said:
    >Barring a breakthrough in battery technology, enhanced wear time equates to a larger lithium ion cell, again suggesting "Series 4" will sport a larger form factor. 

    Li-ion capacities do grow in the same sizes slowly, year over year, so hopefully it's a slight update in chemistry rather than a larger design. Because the screen size rumors would work well in the same form factor cutting back the current bezels. 


    The sharp edge bezels of the current watch look whack, anyway.
    not really - the screen almost always has a black background. I had to turn the flashlight on on my watch to actually see what the corners looked like.
  • Reply 77 of 89
    amarkap said:
    Please don't be too hard on me when I ask this question but I really want to know...what exactly is so great about the Mac-Mini?  What is the use case for this product?  I know a little bit about it (not much as I never owned it)...but I try to run through my head why would I buy this (or who is the target audience) and I simply cannot come up with reason.  Between, the iPad, the iPhone, the Apple TV, and either a Macbook series of laptops or the iMac...just about every use-case is covered with a product already by Apple. 

    Well, if someone can let me know perhaps I will consider getting one this fall if they release a new one.  Again, I speak only from an home/end user perspective.  There very well could be a market for the Mac-Mini in a business/educational/corporate/industrial capacity but that I haven't considered.

    Thanks in advance. 
    It's a good question! I think a lot of us, myself included, really liked the bigger dual-HDD minis from ~2008 and then fell in love with the quad-core minis with dual hdds from ~7 years ago.  I used the bigger mini as a server for many years (I stuck it in a ventilated closet and remote-accessed it to update stuff, but otherwise it just hummed along perfectly until finally the spinning hdds started dying after 8 years), and I still use the quad core mini for home.  With no hacking required these were tiny boxes that looked nice, didn't cost a fortune, and punched above their weight. The hdmi port and usb superdrive made it a pretty simple home theater, too, which the apple tv has only recently come to rival.

    The newer dual-core-only models don't hold water against the older minis, and both benchmark tests and real-world use bear that out ("time spent swearing at the spinning beachball of death" should be a KPI on all benchmarks, and it would disqualify most dual-cores from consideration).  If I were buying a mini now I'd invest in external thunderbolt (or NAS) storage over a second internal drive, but that quad core... I mean... put an adequate amount of ram in a 2012 quad-core mini and it *still* holds up against the average new pc desktop/laptop, today.  These are machines you don't need to replace more than once every 7-10 years (YMMV).

    My hope is that a new mini duplicates the hardware from the new 13" mbp with touchbar... is it too much to ask for a new mini to just take the same internals from the new 13" mbp? I mean, minus the battery and monitor and it might look like a rectangle, but why not?
  • Reply 78 of 89
    chasmchasm Posts: 2,529member
    For the record, now that the new MBPs have arrived: he was right on the safe prediction that they would arrive this year (duh), but missed the 32GB model, Truetone display, added TT compatibility, third-gen keyboard and in short all the details. This is par for the course with this guy.
  • Reply 79 of 89
    After more than four years, there had better be more to the Mac Mini update than just the processor.
    You expect too much from Apple. Apple is definitely going to try to shaft consumers by giving them a non-upgradeable Mac Mini with some very weak specs so as not to take away from their more expensive desktop product lines. Apple is being run by bean counters who are only interested in maximum profits. Although I'm an Apple shareholder, I think Apple is cheating Apple computer users. Apple isn't capable of monetizing itself as well as any of the FANG stocks or Microsoft is doing. Apple should be making money from corporations using the enterprise or enterprise cloud business instead of price-gouging loyal single use computer consumers. It's just stupid to build a laptop computer where if a couple of $.50 key switches fail, hundreds of dollars of component circuitry has to be replaced as well as the labor to replace it. What kind of stupidity is in action at Apple? I want to support Apple but it's getting harder for me to justify. How can Apple continue to sell some weak 2013 Mac Pro and charge as much as a new computer or even more. That's just crazy. Apple admitted they made the mistake so they should take the financial loss for the trashcan Mac Pro. The things that Apple is doing make absolutely no sense to me when it comes to replacement parts. Apple is trying its best to make it impossible for consumers to make inexpensive repairs to their products. Are rival companies doing the same thing with their products? I just don't know, so I can only single out Apple.
  • Reply 80 of 89
    Can Apple manage to build a Mac Mini without soldering all the internals inside? I have a feeling that will be a bone of contention. Personally I’d rather Apple go back to 2012 design when we could installl two SSDs and hopefully the architecture haa been updated to 32 GB of RAM.
    I'd like to see a even a $500 non-upgradeable Mac Mini with 8GB RAM and 1TB of storage that can support 4K at 60 fps using the HDMI port. I don't see that as being too much to ask but I doubt Apple will be able to oblige. Yes, I realize that AppleTV can do that much but I want to run a full version of OSX and not some TVOS. I'm probably in the minority, so I'm sure I won't get my way.
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