Maryland man without backup sues Adobe over Premiere Pro file-eating bug

Comments

• Reply 1 of 61

  ecarlseen Posts: 49member

  November 14, 2018 4:24PM

  Can everyone quit slagging the guy for not having sufficient backup? Should he have had it? Definitely. But there's absolutely, positively zero excuse for vendors like Adobe (and Microsoft last month with the Windows 10 update) playing so absurdly fast and loose with customer data. These software vendors are forcing their customers into far more expensive subscription pricing models in a vain attempt to maintain revenue growth and correspondingly high stock prices for just a little bit longer, which is sketchy enough, but they're also getting much worse at quality control in the process, which is flat-out evil. Adobe has been one of the worst custodians of IT quality and security in the history of computing with their egregiously and shamelessly poor stewardship of the Flash plugin. Microsoft infamously fired most of their QA personnel a few years ago in order to foist that work onto their "insider" fan base, which has made their extremely poor reputation in that are decline even further. Yes, users do stupid things, but in cases like this we need to focus hard on the deeply evil neglect that certain software vendors have had for our data as well.

  

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• Reply 2 of 61

  mike wuerthele Posts: 6,972administrator

  November 14, 2018 4:31PM

  ecarlseen said:

  Can everyone quit slagging the guy for not having sufficient backup? Should he have had it? Definitely. But there's absolutely, positively zero excuse for vendors like Adobe (and Microsoft last month with the Windows 10 update) playing so absurdly fast and loose with customer data. These software vendors are forcing their customers into far more expensive subscription pricing models in a vain attempt to maintain revenue growth and correspondingly high stock prices for just a little bit longer, which is sketchy enough, but they're also getting much worse at quality control in the process, which is flat-out evil. Adobe has been one of the worst custodians of IT quality and security in the history of computing with their egregiously and shamelessly poor stewardship of the Flash plugin. Microsoft infamously fired most of their QA personnel a few years ago in order to foist that work onto their "insider" fan base, which has made their extremely poor reputation in that are decline even further. Yes, users do stupid things, but in cases like this we need to focus hard on the deeply evil neglect that certain software vendors have had for our data as well.

  All the more reason why you should have a good backup. Adobe had a part in this, for sure, but not a $5M part, as data security has always been, and should always be, the user's sole provenance.

  

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• Reply 3 of 61

  mplsp Posts: 4,089member

  November 14, 2018 4:32PM

  It's baffling to me why he didn't have a backup, but it well may have been that his backup server was full and he needed to get another hard drive, or he thought he had it set up and found out it wasn't backing up the way he thought. I can think of plenty of scenarios aside from him just being sloppy.
  
  To me this is something akin to Ford having a steering defect and someone getting injured in a crash because they weren't wearing a seatbelt. Should they have their seatbelt on? Definitely, but the steering defect still caused the crash.
  
  
  

  edited November 2018

  

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• Reply 4 of 61

  bloggerblog Posts: 2,555member

  November 14, 2018 4:35PM

  "...rather than pointing the finger at not having a reliable backup." <- Utter crap.
  Deleting your personal files then saying 'well, you should've had a backup' is irresponsible, especially from a trusted company like Adobe. I fully support his effort and I hope he wins the five million.

  

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• Reply 5 of 61

  rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

  November 14, 2018 4:36PM

  Mmmm.
  
  Okay, I'm going to side with Mr NoBackup on this one.
  
  Yes, he should have had a backup, but let's look at what happened here.
  
  Adobe erased files that had nothing to do with their application!
  
  What sort of poor software craftsmanship is that?? They are the worst of the worst.
  
  Unfortunately, like every other software vendor, there is a clause in the license that says Adobe does not guarantee the software will work or is fit for purpose.
  
  
  

  

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• Reply 6 of 61

  dws-2 Posts: 279member

  November 14, 2018 4:38PM

  I wish our courts would prevent more of these lawsuits, but I don't like the attitude that we should blame the victim. Adobe was clearly at fault here. 

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• Reply 7 of 61

  anton zuykov Posts: 1,056member

  November 14, 2018 4:57PM

  Mike Wuerthele said:

  ecarlseen said:

  Can everyone quit slagging the guy for not having sufficient backup? Should he have had it? Definitely. But there's absolutely, positively zero excuse for vendors like Adobe (and Microsoft last month with the Windows 10 update) playing so absurdly fast and loose with customer data. These software vendors are forcing their customers into far more expensive subscription pricing models in a vain attempt to maintain revenue growth and correspondingly high stock prices for just a little bit longer, which is sketchy enough, but they're also getting much worse at quality control in the process, which is flat-out evil. Adobe has been one of the worst custodians of IT quality and security in the history of computing with their egregiously and shamelessly poor stewardship of the Flash plugin. Microsoft infamously fired most of their QA personnel a few years ago in order to foist that work onto their "insider" fan base, which has made their extremely poor reputation in that are decline even further. Yes, users do stupid things, but in cases like this we need to focus hard on the deeply evil neglect that certain software vendors have had for our data as well.

  All the more reason why you should have a good backup. Adobe had a part in this, for sure, but not a $5M part, as data security has always been, and should always be, the user's sole provenance.

  Problem for Adobe, is that it is gonna have to say in his user agreement that they are not responsible for any loss of data/information, because our engineers can't design a system that could keep you data from being wiped out. That is not something a (((pro))) grade software company should say.
  

  edited November 2018

  

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• Reply 8 of 61

  originalmacowner Posts: 11member

  November 14, 2018 5:02PM

  Adobe updated Photoshop CC on my Mac around that same time without even asking me, it then deleted my own personal version of Photoshop I had from a disc I purchased from them, I saw that it had done it in the updater, which good luck uninstalling that thing, it magically returns even when removed from your start up list, I suspect Adobe of doing many nefarious things behind the scenes (a hold over from their Flash aggression and Macs), ever see how big all of those Adobe folders are on your hard drive too?

  

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• Reply 9 of 61

  hexclock Posts: 1,341member

  November 14, 2018 5:07PM

  Keeping one copy of your stuff on a 7 year old drive that presumably gets fairly heavy use, as a Professional, is walking a tightrope. I am going to assume that drive failure was ruled out. 
  Moving the cache folder seems unnecessary; if your internal storage is too small, upgrade it or put your scratch files on another external. Generally speaking, dragging folders out of Apps is risky. Links get broken or moved and weird things can happen.
  The article doesn’t say what kind of Mac he had or what version of the OS was running, so who knows. Maybe he will win, but in the end, just back up your stuff...it’s so easy and cheap to do. 
  
  
  

  edited November 2018

  

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• Reply 10 of 61

  mike wuerthele Posts: 6,972administrator

  November 14, 2018 5:22PM

  anton zuykov said:

  Mike Wuerthele said:

  ecarlseen said:

  Can everyone quit slagging the guy for not having sufficient backup? Should he have had it? Definitely. But there's absolutely, positively zero excuse for vendors like Adobe (and Microsoft last month with the Windows 10 update) playing so absurdly fast and loose with customer data. These software vendors are forcing their customers into far more expensive subscription pricing models in a vain attempt to maintain revenue growth and correspondingly high stock prices for just a little bit longer, which is sketchy enough, but they're also getting much worse at quality control in the process, which is flat-out evil. Adobe has been one of the worst custodians of IT quality and security in the history of computing with their egregiously and shamelessly poor stewardship of the Flash plugin. Microsoft infamously fired most of their QA personnel a few years ago in order to foist that work onto their "insider" fan base, which has made their extremely poor reputation in that are decline even further. Yes, users do stupid things, but in cases like this we need to focus hard on the deeply evil neglect that certain software vendors have had for our data as well.

  All the more reason why you should have a good backup. Adobe had a part in this, for sure, but not a $5M part, as data security has always been, and should always be, the user's sole provenance.

  Problem for Adobe, is that it is gonna have to say in his user agreement that they are not responsible for any lose of data/information, because our engineers can't design a system that could keep you data being wiped out. That is not something a (((pro))) grade software company should say.
  

  It does say in the user agreement that they are not responsible for the loss of data or information. So does your macOS and iOS license, and literally every other software license I have read for the last 30 years.

  

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• Reply 11 of 61

  lemon bon bon. Posts: 2,173member

  November 14, 2018 5:23PM

  Don't rent your software from these guys.
  
  Walk out.  Take your wallet with you.
  
  Find alternatives.  Expand your mind.
  
  Back up.
  
  Often.  
  
  Lots.
  
  Lemon Bon Bon.

  

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• Reply 12 of 61

  volcan Posts: 1,799member

  November 14, 2018 5:27PM

  Software has bugs. Users are lazy.
  
  500 hours of 40Mbps HD video = 9,000 GB
  
  WD 2 TB external hard drive w/USB 3 can be had for $64 on Amazon.
  
  There are so many ways to back up: Cloud storage, external HD, thumb drives, or simply zip the folder at the end of each editing session.
  
  There is no excuse not to be backed up, especially on a big project. I use Time Machine, but he was probably using Windows.

  

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• Reply 13 of 61

  hexclock Posts: 1,341member

  November 14, 2018 5:36PM

  volcan said:

  Software has bugs. Users are lazy.
  
  500 hours of 40Mbps HD video = 9,000 GB
  
  WD 2 TB external hard drive w/USB 3 can be had for $64 on Amazon.
  
  There are so many ways to back up: Cloud storage, external HD, thumb drives, or simply zip the folder at the end of each editing session.
  
  There is no excuse not to be backed up, especially on a big project. I use Time Machine, but he was probably using Windows.

  I had not even considered he was a Windows users, I assumed Mac. If he’s on Windows, then gooooood luck. 

  

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• Reply 14 of 61

  volcan Posts: 1,799member

  November 14, 2018 5:44PM

  lemon bon bon. said:

  Don't rent your software from these guys.
  
  Find alternatives. 
  

  In my opinion FCP X is not a suitable replacement for Premiere. The only software in the same class that is perhaps a little better and more of a pro standard, at least here in the Southern California movie scene, is Avid Media Composer and guess what? It is subscription too - $19.95 a month.

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• Reply 15 of 61

  sflocal Posts: 6,154member

  November 14, 2018 5:47PM

  ecarlseen said:

  Can everyone quit slagging the guy for not having sufficient backup? Should he have had it? Definitely. But there's absolutely, positively zero excuse for vendors like Adobe (and Microsoft last month with the Windows 10 update) playing so absurdly fast and loose with customer data. These software vendors are forcing their customers into far more expensive subscription pricing models in a vain attempt to maintain revenue growth and correspondingly high stock prices for just a little bit longer, which is sketchy enough, but they're also getting much worse at quality control in the process, which is flat-out evil. Adobe has been one of the worst custodians of IT quality and security in the history of computing with their egregiously and shamelessly poor stewardship of the Flash plugin. Microsoft infamously fired most of their QA personnel a few years ago in order to foist that work onto their "insider" fan base, which has made their extremely poor reputation in that are decline even further. Yes, users do stupid things, but in cases like this we need to focus hard on the deeply evil neglect that certain software vendors have had for our data as well.

  Nonsense. Sure Adobe played a part but that is not the point.  What if his hard drive had a mechanical failure after a few years?  What if his house was robbed and they stole his external drive?  What if a fire burns his house down with his equipment?   Let's put blame squarely and solely on the actual problem.  This "photographer".
  
  This clown had data from 2010 to 2017 on a single drive?  That's it?  He's not a photographer.  He's a rookie.  That's the problem with adults like him... it's always someone else's fault.  There are a multitude of online options that would back up his data, and keep that data offsite.  It's inexcusable in today's inter-connected world that he could not have taken the 1 hour out of his life to get his backup affairs in order.

  
  

  Get a proper, backup procedure in place and life moves on.  Take the lazy approach, and this is what happens.  No love lost here for me.  Good luck having him explain his sloppiness to his "clients".  

  
  

  Crybaby:  "Uh... sorry..  Adobe erased all your pictures on my computer.."
  Client:  Okay... you didn't back them up?

  Crybaby: Uhm... that's not the point.
  Client: "hmmmm......"  *whispers to friend* "Is this guy legit?"

  edited November 2018

  

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• Reply 16 of 61

  bloggerblog Posts: 2,555member

  November 14, 2018 5:52PM

  Mike Wuerthele said:

  anton zuykov said:

  Mike Wuerthele said:

  ecarlseen said:

  Can everyone quit slagging the guy for not having sufficient backup? Should he have had it? Definitely. But there's absolutely, positively zero excuse for vendors like Adobe (and Microsoft last month with the Windows 10 update) playing so absurdly fast and loose with customer data. These software vendors are forcing their customers into far more expensive subscription pricing models in a vain attempt to maintain revenue growth and correspondingly high stock prices for just a little bit longer, which is sketchy enough, but they're also getting much worse at quality control in the process, which is flat-out evil. Adobe has been one of the worst custodians of IT quality and security in the history of computing with their egregiously and shamelessly poor stewardship of the Flash plugin. Microsoft infamously fired most of their QA personnel a few years ago in order to foist that work onto their "insider" fan base, which has made their extremely poor reputation in that are decline even further. Yes, users do stupid things, but in cases like this we need to focus hard on the deeply evil neglect that certain software vendors have had for our data as well.

  All the more reason why you should have a good backup. Adobe had a part in this, for sure, but not a $5M part, as data security has always been, and should always be, the user's sole provenance.

  Problem for Adobe, is that it is gonna have to say in his user agreement that they are not responsible for any lose of data/information, because our engineers can't design a system that could keep you data being wiped out. That is not something a (((pro))) grade software company should say.
  

  It does say in the user agreement that they are not responsible for the loss of data or information. So does your macOS and iOS license, and literally every other software license I have read for the last 30 years.

  Yes but one doesn't expect that to apply to files that are not being worked on. Even if he backed up to the cloud using something like iCloud, it would have erased his files from the backup as well, since most cloud services sync their data. Moreover, his external drive might've been a RAID5 or a Mirror, which is technically a live backup and would've done the same thing. 
  

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• Reply 17 of 61

  volcan Posts: 1,799member

  November 14, 2018 5:57PM

  bloggerblog said:
  Yes but one doesn't expect that to apply to files that are not being worked on. Even if he backed up to the cloud using something like iCloud, it would have erased his files from the backup as well, since most cloud services sync their data. Moreover, his external drive might've been a RAID5 or a Mirror, which is technically a live backup and would've done the same thing. 

  You can undelete files on iCloud Drive. I think for a couple weeks, then they are really gone.
  
  On Dropbox you have to deliberately move file into a the deleted files folder and if you really want to delete them you select the file to permanently remove.
  
  I have a buddy who is a forensic computer engineer who can undelete just about any file and he doesn't charge that much either.

  edited November 2018

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• Reply 18 of 61

  macpro Posts: 19,871member

  November 14, 2018 6:03PM

  The way I see it is, the higher the amount claimed as a loss the more import it shows a back up was required. So it seems a self-defeating claim IMHO.

  

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• Reply 19 of 61

  mike wuerthele Posts: 6,972administrator

  November 14, 2018 6:05PM

  bloggerblog said:

  Mike Wuerthele said:

  anton zuykov said:

  Mike Wuerthele said:

  ecarlseen said:

  Can everyone quit slagging the guy for not having sufficient backup? Should he have had it? Definitely. But there's absolutely, positively zero excuse for vendors like Adobe (and Microsoft last month with the Windows 10 update) playing so absurdly fast and loose with customer data. These software vendors are forcing their customers into far more expensive subscription pricing models in a vain attempt to maintain revenue growth and correspondingly high stock prices for just a little bit longer, which is sketchy enough, but they're also getting much worse at quality control in the process, which is flat-out evil. Adobe has been one of the worst custodians of IT quality and security in the history of computing with their egregiously and shamelessly poor stewardship of the Flash plugin. Microsoft infamously fired most of their QA personnel a few years ago in order to foist that work onto their "insider" fan base, which has made their extremely poor reputation in that are decline even further. Yes, users do stupid things, but in cases like this we need to focus hard on the deeply evil neglect that certain software vendors have had for our data as well.

  All the more reason why you should have a good backup. Adobe had a part in this, for sure, but not a $5M part, as data security has always been, and should always be, the user's sole provenance.

  Problem for Adobe, is that it is gonna have to say in his user agreement that they are not responsible for any lose of data/information, because our engineers can't design a system that could keep you data being wiped out. That is not something a (((pro))) grade software company should say.
  

  It does say in the user agreement that they are not responsible for the loss of data or information. So does your macOS and iOS license, and literally every other software license I have read for the last 30 years.

  Yes but one doesn't expect that to apply to files that are not being worked on. Even if he backed up to the cloud using something like iCloud, it would have erased his files from the backup as well, since most cloud services sync their data. Moreover, his external drive might've been a RAID5 or a Mirror, which is technically a live backup and would've done the same thing. 
  

  It doesn't matter what's "expected" by the user. Software developers, according to use agreements, are not responsible for the loss of data or information, full stop, no qualifiers, in use or not. A RAID 5 or mirror being used for active work is in no way a live backup.

  edited November 2018

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• Reply 20 of 61

  volcan Posts: 1,799member

  November 14, 2018 6:07PM

  MacPro said:

  The way I see it is, the higher the amount claimed as a loss the more import it shows a back up was required. So it seems a self-defeating claim IMHO.

  This a class action suit. The users would probably only make peanuts. The lion's share goes to the law firm representing them.
   
  My attorney told me that any lawyer who specifies the amount of damages in advance of a trial or settlement is incompetent.

  edited November 2018

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