Thanks for referring to this (correctly) as a rumor in the headline.
I guess the WSJ continues to be one of the US’ most prominent financial publications, but that doesn’t mean everything they print is true. The WSJ trafficked heavily in the “iPhone X is a failure” last year, for example, and has been wrong on many of its rumor reports ever since Murdoch took over.
If —IF — production of the X has restarted, its certainly not due to some leftover amount of OLED screens in that size/style — the iPhone X was the best-selling smartphone by brand, bar none, last year. The WSJ report already has at least some unlikely info in it, meaning the entire thing is suspect. I’m inclined to agree with DAalseth ... this seems like a planted story to further discredit the XR.
I’d like to also point out — probably for the first of many times — that if the XR was seriously underperforming, that would affect Apple’s financials, and they would be legally obligated to warn investors of any serious miss to the (record-setting) guidance they’ve given. That could still happen, obviously, but to hear the media tell it the XR is in such freefall that Apple would need to revise guidance soon — I find that incredibly unlikely to happen (just like it didn’t happen last year when we were fed these same “X is a flop” stories).
More evidence that prices are too high across the board. The phones are not the problem; the prices are. Half of the iPhone’s price increase since it was released a decade ago has come in the last year alone.
Actually, you’re wrong - the only “evidence” is Apple’s record profits, which suggest the price on iphones has been too *low*, as explained by Warren Buffet. Read up.
Just because you want things for free or cheaply, doesn’t mean there’s a problem. It’s good to want things.
Hmm. and yet theres the falling stock price to consider. The market does in fact care about unit sales.
Funny thing is that these unit drop rumours can't actually be thwarted unless Apple actually do in fact report unit sales in the next Q report.
Factor 1: iPhone XR is about 12% better performance than iPhone X, see Geekbench single core scores yourself. So, iPhone X should be at least 10% cheaper than iPhone XR by cost performance.
Factor 2: iPhone X is an older technology, with a life expectancy of 3 years with a zero residual value , iPhone X should be at least 33% cheaper than last year and 66% cheaper if it were sold next year.
Factor 1 + Factor 2: iPhone X should be 75% cheaper than the original launching price by next year.
Thus, I’ll generously consider to offer to buy a brand new iPhone X 512GB within $500 in 2019.
I don't buy factor 2 at all. iPhones have about 5 years value in them. In fact iPhones have about 5 years value in them.
I can only speak about pricing from my own perspective and state that I backed off from a new XR purely on that point.
If it had topped out at 749€ I would have got one. The problem is that tha final retail price is touching 900€ after sales tax here.
It wouldn't surprise me if Europeans have reacted in the same way as me.
In terms of value I feel the XR is lacking but 749€ would have got the sale nevertheless for other reasons. At current end-pricing it is a no go.
€859 incl. €151 tax. 859 - 151 = €708. 708 EUR in USD = 807.67. The difference from the US store is only $50. Now take this $50 and please shut up.
We are speculating on the possible reasons for a possible slackening of XR sales. I gave one. Now, please tell me - and everyone in Europe - how to avoid that tax because if you you can do that it might be a solution to that possible issue.
People in Europe look at pricing based on product price plus sales tax. Regular consumers never ever, let me bold that, neverever view pricing without including the sales tax.
There is no point claiming that the base price is less (after currency considerations) if the finalretailprice for the consumer is still high enough to dissuade a purchase, which is exactly my case and which I made very clear.
Is there any life without tax? Tax is everywhere, only the modality to display it differs. In Europe the VAT is included in the price, which is what I experience in my every shopping, but I don't complain because it is not Apple's duty to pay my tax. If the customer is dissuaded because of the tax included in the price then let him go, what can Apple or any other company do about that? Yet Apple displays the tax separately, if the customer is still dissuaded then there is nothing to do.
If the point is to speculate on the possible reasons for a possible slackening of XR sales in Europe, that may be just because of longer refresh cycles and the aged population of Europe. Yet the XR is just released and we are not at the peak of the shopping season, it is too early to come to such conclusions or to jump on rumors as if it is the end of the world.
Let me point out two things from my first post:
1. I can only speak about pricing from my own perspective.
2. It wouldn't surprise me if Europeans have reacted in the same way as me.
No one is asking Apple to pay the tax.
Incredible. Your point #1 argues you’re speaking only from your own perspective, yet you than say “No one is asking Apple to pay the tax.” That sounds like you’re speaking for everyone.
Way to make fun of someone for whom English clearly is a second language. He meant “I did not ask for Apple to pay the tax” and with a little bit of good faith you could have accepted that instead of going for the cheap shot here.
And what he means is that higher sales tax will amplify differences in pricing. A 50$ difference becomes a 60$ difference to the consumer when the tax is added. Some other products of Apple have even bigger differences in price. Now Apple can price their products however the company likes, but it should not expect sales to be unaffected. Samsung and other smartphone sellers manage to offer prices in Europe that equal US prices including VAT. Apple is not even close to that.
The iPhone is £220 or $280 more expensive in the UK. What's your excuse for that when Samesung can sell the same phone for the same price in each country? Silence, no doubt as usual for you when someone gives you facts that're not pro-Apple, and you can't come up with another implausable excuse.
So you compare Apple to individual / 3d party Amazon sellers who can go into every kind of bargain in order to collect feedback? Submit a Samsung link if you submit Apple's. Never mind, here they are:
More evidence that prices are too high across the board. The phones are not the problem; the prices are. Half of the iPhone’s price increase since it was released a decade ago has come in the last year alone.
Actually, you’re wrong - the only “evidence” is Apple’s record profits, which suggest the price on iphones has been too *low*, as explained by Warren Buffet. Read up.
Just because you want things for free or cheaply, doesn’t mean there’s a problem. It’s good to want things.
Why then are phone sales flat YoY? Cook is desperate to keep growing revenue, and he's using the ridiculous mentality they use on the public transport here in the UK: Less sales, raise prices to compensate. Results in a vicious circle of less people buying iPhones because of the cost, then raising of prices to maintain revenue. Where does it end? It's pretty obvious to any businessman cutting prices boosts sales. Cook seems to think the opposite. Remember he's an operations guy, not a visionary.
Pathetic. Cook isn’t “desperate” for anything, he’s the most successful modern CEO of the most successful public corp in the history of the entire human race. Are you fucking serious? Get real, man. The knockoff competitor CEOs, who are entirely nameless due to their mediocrity, are the only desperate ones here. Besides you haters, of course.
Apple’s profits remain legion and record setting. Market share doesn’t matter.
CEOs are most often operations people and rarely visionaries. You seem to be confusing Jobs, a product manager, for being a typical CEO. Ignorant.
Let the haters have their day in the sunshine. The recent pullback and rumors about production cuts has invigorated them, filled them with false hope, and emboldened them to chew their way out of the woodwork like the termites they are. When next quarter’s financials come out they’ll have the same egg on their faces they always have. Even with AAPL in the doldrums Apple is still the most valuable tech company. Google now trails both Apple and Microsoft in market cap so the Android crowd has nothing to crow about.
Factor 1: iPhone XR is about 12% better performance than iPhone X, see Geekbench single core scores yourself. So, iPhone X should be at least 10% cheaper than iPhone XR by cost performance.
Factor 2: iPhone X is an older technology, with a life expectancy of 3 years with a zero residual value , iPhone X should be at least 33% cheaper than last year and 66% cheaper if it were sold next year.
Factor 1 + Factor 2: iPhone X should be 75% cheaper than the original launching price by next year.
Thus, I’ll generously consider to offer to buy a brand new iPhone X 512GB within $500 in 2019.
That 12% performance increase only applies to the CPU. The GPU and the Neural Engine in the XR has a much bigger jump in performance.
Apple just enhances the mid-range, alongside the 8 series. Wise move.
A12 Bionic for high-end: XR, XS, XS Max. A11 Bionic for mid-range: 8, 8 Plus, X. A10 Fusion for low-end: 7, 7 Plus.
If Apple places the X at the same slot as the XR ($749) that would be great ;-) That may require some tweaking with the storage. But there is an "empty" slot between the XR (749) and the XS (999), most probably the X will go there: 799-849. If that happens then my classification above will be no longer valid and we'll understand that Apple considers all the Xx series as high-end.
Other than the Colors I think that the 8Plus is just as good as the XR without getting stuck with subpar intel modems and the 7Plus is pretty darn close. Plus people who like smaller phones basically have to stay with the iPhone 8 or iPhone 7. Since I carry a 8+ and 7+ I see no compelling reason to move to XR or XS. Hopefully they come out with Solid State batteries in the iPhone so that their would a great reason to go to a new phone.
I saw Best Buy and a few other places were offering $250 Homepods. I don’t think I have ever seen a cut so big with an Apple product in the first year
I have the same feelings for iPhone 8+. I bought one last year and I plan to keep it at least 2 years more before switching to X series. Meanwhile those are just feelings, people may have their own reasons to switch. One obvious reason is the display, which is bigger than the 8+. Horizontally they are equal (414) but vertically XR is has more display area. And since those are primarily computing devices, display and CPU matter more than anything else. For just $50 more (plus missing telephoto lens) people get the newest CPU with more powerful GPU, ISP and Neural Engine, larger display, the convenience of FaceID... by switching to XR. I don't know about subpar Intel modems, there is only one graph circulating, which is not enough to judge a phone. I can't comment on price cut on HomePod, those are home conveniences, but if you want to see a price not so much cut here is one, FWIW: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-64GB-Silver-Prepaid/dp/B078HVJB69/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1542993925&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=iPhone+X&psc=1
Everyone missed the most important word in the entire article, “carriers”. The author even pointed out it was strange.
I think the carriers have spoken, we want the 8 back in production, or something at the same price. Someone at Apple messed up the numbers with the carriers, and the more expensive phone doesn’t pencil in given the margins the carriers need.
More evidence that prices are too high across the board. The phones are not the problem; the prices are. Half of the iPhone’s price increase since it was released a decade ago has come in the last year alone.
Actually, you’re wrong - the only “evidence” is Apple’s record profits, which suggest the price on iphones has been too *low*, as explained by Warren Buffet. Read up.
Just because you want things for free or cheaply, doesn’t mean there’s a problem. It’s good to want things.
Why then are phone sales flat YoY? Cook is desperate to keep growing revenue, and he's using the ridiculous mentality they use on the public transport here in the UK: Less sales, raise prices to compensate. Results in a vicious circle of less people buying iPhones because of the cost, then raising of prices to maintain revenue. Where does it end? It's pretty obvious to any businessman cutting prices boosts sales. Cook seems to think the opposite. Remember he's an operations guy, not a visionary.
Pathetic. Cook isn’t “desperate” for anything, he’s the most successful modern CEO of the most successful public corp in the history of the entire human race. Are you fucking serious? Get real, man. The knockoff competitor CEOs, who are entirely nameless due to their mediocrity, are the only desperate ones here. Besides you haters, of course.
Apple’s profits remain legion and record setting. Market share doesn’t matter.
CEOs are most often operations people and rarely visionaries. You seem to be confusing Jobs, a product manager, for being a typical CEO. Ignorant.
Let the haters have their day in the sunshine. The recent pullback and rumors about production cuts has invigorated them, filled them with false hope, and emboldened them to chew their way out of the woodwork like the termites they are. When next quarter’s financials come out they’ll have the same egg on their faces they always have. Even with AAPL in the doldrums Apple is still the most valuable tech company. Google now trails both Apple and Microsoft in market cap so the Android crowd has nothing to crow about.
I guess if market cap is the determining factor when it comes to what you should buy then we should all be cheering on Toyota's as the only cars any intelligent person should be driving while bragging about the amazing quality stuff they just picked up at Walmart? I get that this whole market cap thing is important to investors but why should a typical buyer of one of their products dance for joy when a company successfully locks them in and maximizes its profits? It's really a badge of honor? Apple is great of course, but they'd still be great even if they were the number 10 company by market cap IMO.
More evidence that prices are too high across the board. The phones are not the problem; the prices are. Half of the iPhone’s price increase since it was released a decade ago has come in the last year alone.
I have to agree with Deadpool in this one: at least in Australia. In fact, the price gouge has become so bad here that my families two year tic-tic upgrade cycle has ceased. My wife has decided to stick with her 2year old iPhone and I have no intention of upgrading my X next year. Not when the phone costs more than a laptop!
and to be clear, it’s not just the phones and it’s not just me. Apple lost the ale of at least 5 new Mac minis this year with its outrageous mini pricing.
I fear we we are seeing a return to the stupidity of Apple in the early nineties. I hope not, I have shares!
For the first time in a long time we have not and are not getting any Apple things this calendar year. I had been trying to update one thing each year, but this year, nothing. The prices are so high, especially here in Canada, that everything will have to do for a while. My wife has an iPhone 6, we replaced the battery last month. My SE will do for another couple of years. Talked myself out of an Apple Watch, mostly because as good as they are, they are not worth the money. At least my credit card will be happier.
More evidence that prices are too high across the board. The phones are not the problem; the prices are. Half of the iPhone’s price increase since it was released a decade ago has come in the last year alone.
I have to agree with Deadpool in this one: at least in Australia. In fact, the price gouge has become so bad here that my families two year tic-tic upgrade cycle has ceased. My wife has decided to stick with her 2year old iPhone and I have no intention of upgrading my X next year. Not when the phone costs more than a laptop!
and to be clear, it’s not just the phones and it’s not just me. Apple lost the ale of at least 5 new Mac minis this year with its outrageous mini pricing.
I fear we we are seeing a return to the stupidity of Apple in the early nineties. I hope not, I have shares!
For the first time in a long time we have not and are not getting any Apple things this calendar year. I had been trying to update one thing each year, but this year, nothing. The prices are so high, especially here in Canada, that everything will have to do for a while. My wife has an iPhone 6, we replaced the battery last month. My SE will do for another couple of years. Talked myself out of an Apple Watch, mostly because as good as they are, they are not worth the money. At least my credit card will be happier.
"My SE will do for another couple of years." => That's assuming it gets support for iOS updates for that long
I'm here in Canada as well and I understand how you feel. On the flip side, your wife might want to look at an iPhone 8. There are some great sales for that model for Black Friday. You can pick up on from Koodo Mobile on a Medium Tab plan for $150 on contract. That's $300 off & a killer price. The iPhone XR goes for $550 on contract
Everyone missed the most important word in the entire article, “carriers”. The author even pointed out it was strange.
I think the carriers have spoken, we want the 8 back in production, or something at the same price. Someone at Apple messed up the numbers with the carriers, and the more expensive phone doesn’t pencil in given the margins the carriers need.
Pretty clear, after 10+ years, the carriers don’t tell Apple what to do. The story is bullshit, plain and simple. Every year, it’s the same. And every year it’s bullshit.
iPhone XS Max will be best selling, followed by XS. XR will be third.
More evidence that prices are too high across the board. The phones are not the problem; the prices are. Half of the iPhone’s price increase since it was released a decade ago has come in the last year alone.
I have to agree with Deadpool in this one: at least in Australia. In fact, the price gouge has become so bad here that my families two year tic-tic upgrade cycle has ceased. My wife has decided to stick with her 2year old iPhone and I have no intention of upgrading my X next year. Not when the phone costs more than a laptop!
and to be clear, it’s not just the phones and it’s not just me. Apple lost the ale of at least 5 new Mac minis this year with its outrageous mini pricing.
I fear we we are seeing a return to the stupidity of Apple in the early nineties. I hope not, I have shares!
For the first time in a long time we have not and are not getting any Apple things this calendar year. I had been trying to update one thing each year, but this year, nothing. The prices are so high, especially here in Canada, that everything will have to do for a while. My wife has an iPhone 6, we replaced the battery last month. My SE will do for another couple of years. Talked myself out of an Apple Watch, mostly because as good as they are, they are not worth the money. At least my credit card will be happier.
"My SE will do for another couple of years." => That's assuming it gets support for iOS updates for that long
I'm here in Canada as well and I understand how you feel. On the flip side, your wife might want to look at an iPhone 8. There are some great sales for that model for Black Friday. You can pick up on from Koodo Mobile on a Medium Tab plan for $150 on contract. That's $300 off & a killer price. The iPhone XR goes for $550 on contract
I’m going to stay with what I have. Honestly, the phones work fine. They will be on the currant lOS for most of 2019. One rev out isnt that bad, which will keep them going through most of 2020. So unless something unexpected happens, we’re good.
Maybe they had to make more devices due to the quality program for the X displays that either stop working or develop lines on the display. There might be a larger amount of phones that will need whole unit replacements if the repair fails.
Your linked article says nothing about display issues - did you expect no one to click? It says the touch controller could develop problems and require repair.
Are you kidding?
The whole article talks about the issue with the display!
Did you even read it?
Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider will replace the display module on eligible devices, free of charge.
Doesnt this mean mean that the display module is causing the actual display to have problems on these devices? So replacing the display module will stop the issues that people may experience with their displays. It doesn’t say the displays would be replaced. Unless I missed something ?
Factor 1: iPhone XR is about 12% better performance than iPhone X, see Geekbench single core scores yourself. So, iPhone X should be at least 10% cheaper than iPhone XR by cost performance.
Factor 2: iPhone X is an older technology, with a life expectancy of 3 years with a zero residual value , iPhone X should be at least 33% cheaper than last year and 66% cheaper if it were sold next year.
Factor 1 + Factor 2: iPhone X should be 75% cheaper than the original launching price by next year.
Thus, I’ll generously consider to offer to buy a brand new iPhone X 512GB within $500 in 2019.
I don't buy factor 2 at all. iPhones have about 5 years value in them. In fact iPhones have about 5 years value in them.
Yeah! #2 is hooey! Show me a three year old iPhone selling for a third of its OSP! I’m still on 5s wishing I could afford a used 7!
Too bad Apple doesn't publish sales figures anymore - that would go a long way towards putting rumors to rest. Now everyone's left to theorize based on random tidbits of data that can be interpreted a million different ways.
It's certainly possible that price is playing a roll. The interesting thing about the effects of pricing with smart phones is that they may be quite delayed. There are some people who will buy an iPhone no matter what (i.e. many people on this site,) and there are others who might prefer an iPhone, but if the price difference is enough they will consider an android phone. The 'cost' of switching from one ecosystem to another is also a factor; unless they are having major issues, people will tend to stay with one platform out of convenience. If the cost of staying gets too high, then they start looking. That goes in reverse, too. If the cost of switching to the iPhone is too high, you discourage people from switching and miss out on new users but that's something that will take a couple of years to show up.
Then there's the fact that most people do not upgrade every year and increasing numbers of people are waiting 3 or even 4 years. Add to that the fact that in many ways smartphone technology is plateauing, so the benefits of getting a top of the line model are much less clear. It may well be that all the people who are willing to pay $800+ for a smart phone have already paid out and gotten an X or Xs, so now that the Xr is out, a higher number of potential buyers are deciding they would be happy with an 8 or 7.
Like everything, this is pure speculation. Time will tell - maybe Apple will drop the price of the Xr to $500 and I can get rid of my 6s!
More evidence that prices are too high across the board. The phones are not the problem; the prices are. Half of the iPhone’s price increase since it was released a decade ago has come in the last year alone.
Actually, you’re wrong - the only “evidence” is Apple’s record profits, which suggest the price on iphones has been too *low*, as explained by Warren Buffet. Read up.
Just because you want things for free or cheaply, doesn’t mean there’s a problem. It’s good to want things.
Hmm. and yet theres the falling stock price to consider. The market does in fact care about unit sales.
Funny thing is that these unit drop rumours can't actually be thwarted unless Apple actually do in fact report unit sales in the next Q report.
Since when stock prices, especially AAPL, indicates anything about Apple profits? Ridiculous PE number does not mean a sustainable company but bubbles waiting to burst. Stock price is only for manipulation, a reactive to rumours, not true indicator, least has anything to do with Apple sales guidance.
Factor 1: iPhone XR is about 12% better performance than iPhone X, see Geekbench single core scores yourself. So, iPhone X should be at least 10% cheaper than iPhone XR by cost performance.
Factor 2: iPhone X is an older technology, with a life expectancy of 3 years with a zero residual value , iPhone X should be at least 33% cheaper than last year and 66% cheaper if it were sold next year.
Factor 1 + Factor 2: iPhone X should be 75% cheaper than the original launching price by next year.
Thus, I’ll generously consider to offer to buy a brand new iPhone X 512GB within $500 in 2019.
I don't buy factor 2 at all. iPhones have about 5 years value in them. In fact iPhones have about 5 years value in them.
You read my mind. “3 years” was my attempt to stand in Apple shoes. 5 years is a very reasonable expectation from a practical consumer view. Good feedback.
Factor 1: iPhone XR is about 12% better performance than iPhone X, see Geekbench single core scores yourself. So, iPhone X should be at least 10% cheaper than iPhone XR by cost performance.
Factor 2: iPhone X is an older technology, with a life expectancy of 3 years with a zero residual value , iPhone X should be at least 33% cheaper than last year and 66% cheaper if it were sold next year.
Factor 1 + Factor 2: iPhone X should be 75% cheaper than the original launching price by next year.
Thus, I’ll generously consider to offer to buy a brand new iPhone X 512GB within $500 in 2019.
That 12% performance increase only applies to the CPU. The GPU and the Neural Engine in the XR has a much bigger jump in performance.
Very good observation. Then Apple should sell iPhone X at even lower prices.
Comments
I guess the WSJ continues to be one of the US’ most prominent financial publications, but that doesn’t mean everything they print is true. The WSJ trafficked heavily in the “iPhone X is a failure” last year, for example, and has been wrong on many of its rumor reports ever since Murdoch took over.
If —IF — production of the X has restarted, its certainly not due to some leftover amount of OLED screens in that size/style — the iPhone X was the best-selling smartphone by brand, bar none, last year. The WSJ report already has at least some unlikely info in it, meaning the entire thing is suspect. I’m inclined to agree with DAalseth ... this seems like a planted story to further discredit the XR.
I’d like to also point out — probably for the first of many times — that if the XR was seriously underperforming, that would affect Apple’s financials, and they would be legally obligated to warn investors of any serious miss to the (record-setting) guidance they’ve given. That could still happen, obviously, but to hear the media tell it the XR is in such freefall that Apple would need to revise guidance soon — I find that incredibly unlikely to happen (just like it didn’t happen last year when we were fed these same “X is a flop” stories).
Funny thing is that these unit drop rumours can't actually be thwarted unless Apple actually do in fact report unit sales in the next Q report.
Here you go:
£955 - $1223
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone-XS-256GB-Silver/dp/B07HKDMD9R/ref=sr_tr_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1542939110&sr=1-5&keywords=iphone+xs&th=1
Same difference.
https://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-64GB-Silver-Prepaid/dp/B078HVJB69/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1542993925&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=iPhone+X&psc=1
I think the carriers have spoken, we want the 8 back in production, or something at the same price. Someone at Apple messed up the numbers with the carriers, and the more expensive phone doesn’t pencil in given the margins the carriers need.
I'm here in Canada as well and I understand how you feel. On the flip side, your wife might want to look at an iPhone 8. There are some great sales for that model for Black Friday. You can pick up on from Koodo Mobile on a Medium Tab plan for $150 on contract. That's $300 off & a killer price. The iPhone XR goes for $550 on contract
iPhone XS Max will be best selling, followed by XS. XR will be third.
Doesnt this mean mean that the display module is causing the actual display to have problems on these devices? So replacing the display module will stop the issues that people may experience with their displays. It doesn’t say the displays would be replaced. Unless I missed something ?
It's certainly possible that price is playing a roll. The interesting thing about the effects of pricing with smart phones is that they may be quite delayed. There are some people who will buy an iPhone no matter what (i.e. many people on this site,) and there are others who might prefer an iPhone, but if the price difference is enough they will consider an android phone. The 'cost' of switching from one ecosystem to another is also a factor; unless they are having major issues, people will tend to stay with one platform out of convenience. If the cost of staying gets too high, then they start looking. That goes in reverse, too. If the cost of switching to the iPhone is too high, you discourage people from switching and miss out on new users but that's something that will take a couple of years to show up.
Then there's the fact that most people do not upgrade every year and increasing numbers of people are waiting 3 or even 4 years. Add to that the fact that in many ways smartphone technology is plateauing, so the benefits of getting a top of the line model are much less clear. It may well be that all the people who are willing to pay $800+ for a smart phone have already paid out and gotten an X or Xs, so now that the Xr is out, a higher number of potential buyers are deciding they would be happy with an 8 or 7.
Like everything, this is pure speculation. Time will tell - maybe Apple will drop the price of the Xr to $500 and I can get rid of my 6s!