Qualcomm's Snapdragon 855 is over a year behind Apple's A12 Bionic, lacks a premium Androi...

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  • Reply 41 of 187
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,938moderator
    Seth2015 said:
    That's a better argument ... Thanks strangedays.

    You don't think maybe they could spend some money on a better? Maybe something that lasts a little longer? iPhone batteries die pretty early in in any very tests. 

    On the screen - from the outside, it looks like iPhone XR is running a screen from 2013. It can't do FullHD - you reckon this is all the eye can see? There is no need for anything higher?
    There is something higher in resolution versus the Xr.  That would be the XS, XS Max, 8+ and 7+.  Plenty of options.  You do realize the Xr is the entry level in the new Face ID, full display line up.  Just as we realized you’re cherry picking your points.

    As to the batteries, what do you mean by last a little longer?  Between charges? Or last years longer than they already do?  On the latter point, you’ll find that the lack of complaint about Android batteries is due to them outlasting the useful life of the phones, which is only about two years. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 42 of 187
    Rayz2016rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Seth2015 said:
    @StrangeDays You're really trying to say I'm ignorant and a false sense of my knowledge? With no disrespect intended here, I've knocked every claim that anyone has on here ? 
    Actually, you have that backwards. Every claim you’ve made has been rather expertly dismissed. Instead, you’ve tried (and failed) to push the discussion in a direction where you feel Android can be shown in a good light, which is certainly not in processor benchmarks where major Android manufacturers have shown an easy willingness to cheat. 

    https://www.androidpit.com/huawei-cheats-in-benchmarks-tests

    But kudos to the Android press for calling this out and trying to restore integrity to the platform, unlike huge sections of the community that travels the internet trying to deflect attention elsewhere. 
    edited December 2018
    radarthekattmayracerhomie3Deelronwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 43 of 187
    @radarthekat ;

    I didn't say everything - I specifically said that instead of focusing so much a chip set, rather look elsewhere. The features below aren't bad at all - but they're not #1 when it comes to any Top 10 list.

    1. Battery capacity
    2. Battery charge speed
    3. LTE modem
    4. Screen resolution
    5. Camera

    And regarding Face ID - I urge you to research ... the Huawei Mate 20 Pro has a similar IR dot system (ie 3D) that photos cannot be used. I think the system you're referring is the 6 year old facial precondition which relied on simple 2D. By default though, that required a blink and photos didn't work to open it either?

    Energy efficient is not really accurate? It's generally one of the first phones to die in any battery test (see above)



    williamlondon
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  • Reply 44 of 187
    DuhSesameduhsesame Posts: 1,278member
    Madtiger said:
    DuhSesame said:
    I do want to say something different, that 855 may have a chance go neck-to-neck at multi-core performance against A12.  Single-Core is getting bottlenecked, every major player are moving to multi-cores.  

    Unless Geekbench sucks so bad, that their multi-core benchmark doesn’t count, iPhone never leads over Android until A11.
    True...but remember, A12 only has 6 cores...with 2 big cores and 4 small ones.  The 855 has 8 cores total...1 high speed big core, 3 big cores, and 4 smaller cores.

    So, with 4 big cores (one of which in overdrive) vs. 2 big, you would expect that multi-core benchmark will at least match A12!  

    I doubt that 855 will match A12 power efficiency.  From Anandtech: “One big uncertaintly that I have is in regards to the CPU configuration. Here at first I thought the 1+3 configuration seemed reasonable, however the disclosure that the different cores are running on the same power/voltage plane has given me some doubts about how this will pan out in terms of power efficiency. Power efficiency of the CPU and the SoC in general use-cases seems to be something that Qualcomm hasn’t talked about at all today and this worries me quite a bit.”
    The small core “Tempest” is pretty close to an A73, and A12 does have a better optimized version of HMP.  That said, some further reading suggested that “45% increase” is mostly talking about single-core, so it may not challenge A12 overall.

    at least it doesn’t in AnTuTu.
    https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/12/04/antutu-compares-snapdragon-855-with-other-flagship-mobile-socs/

    Speaking of AnTuTu, it always gives an opposite view on the multi-core performance than Geekbench, which A-series were never surpassed in “CPU overall score”. 
    edited December 2018
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  • Reply 45 of 187
    South Korea will be rolling out the first commercial 5g network, so there will be one market for it, though i doubt it will be worth samsung jumping in on it, but we shall see.

    also
    "One problem: there's aren't networks that fast." ??

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  • Reply 46 of 187
    revenant said:
    South Korea will be rolling out the first commercial 5g network, so there will be one market for it, though i doubt it will be worth samsung jumping in on it, but we shall see.

    also
    "One problem: there's aren't networks that fast." ??

    Manufacturers don't make a different handset for every market, with different features. They'll make a handset supporting as many bands and categories as possible, to cater for every market. But some manufacturers will rather wait until they feel things are more mature before implementing (by that time, we're eyeing 6G already ..) - and that's ok too! That's how they do things.

    I have a LTE Cat 21 modem in my phone (I think iPhone will likely get this in a year or two as well) and while we don't specifically have Cat 21 networks, it certainly helps. I did a speedtest the other day of 160Mbps+ on LTE, which is certainly higher than other phones, including the iPhone. This is one of those things where iPhone users won't care / eat battery / not mature etc because they don't have it yet.

    The same situation has played out for 10+ years  
    edited December 2018
    williamlondon
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  • Reply 47 of 187
    DuhSesameduhsesame Posts: 1,278member
    Seth2015 said:
    And one of my favourite exchanges happen when a certain feature hasn't rolled out to iPhone yet ... ad this started back in 2007 with lack of 3G.

    A : Nice phone - but there's no 3G or decent connection for a smartphone
    B : Apple says it isn't mature yet and the market isn't ready
    A : But millions have been using it for years ? 
    B : we don't use it / it's pointless / wastes battery / Apple will launch at the correct time

    *A year later*

    B : his is revolutionary technology !

    And you can almost substitute '3G' for anything ... larger screens, multiple cameras, NFC, 5G, 4K recording ... the list really goes on
    What the heck is your metrics...
    We talk about performance more than anything else is because that’s the easiest thing to do.  Clearly no one other than Apple is good at building microarchitectures.  Almost every other thing else it’s like Apple-to-oranges.  

    You can set your standards on Samsung’s PPI and said that’s the one great truth, but I can still say iPhone’s solution is more balanced and you won’t notice individual pixels when using it right.  Who’s more right in the end?
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 48 of 187
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,938moderator
    Seth2015 said:
    @radarthekat ;

    I didn't say everything - I specifically said that instead of focusing so much a chip set, rather look elsewhere. The features below aren't bad at all - but they're not #1 when it comes to any Top 10 list.

    1. Battery capacity
    2. Battery charge speed
    3. LTE modem
    4. Screen resolution
    5. Camera

    And regarding Face ID - I urge you to research ... the Huawei Mate 20 Pro has a similar IR dot system (ie 3D) that photos cannot be used. I think the system you're referring is the 6 year old facial precondition which relied on simple 2D. By default though, that required a blink and photos didn't work to open it either?

    Energy efficient is not really accurate? It's generally one of the first phones to die in any battery test (see above)



    See this is the problem.  You don’t even have the insight to recognize what energy efficiency is.  If you take a phone with a big battery versus a phone with a smaller battery and run them both through the same compute tasks, you have to adjust for the battery capacities.  And you aren’t mentioning that, are you? 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 49 of 187
    The new A12 bionic is definitely killing Qualcomm. 

    Buuuuut....you average user has no idea what processor they have. My friend is a store manager for AT&T and he says most people rarely convert from Android to iOS anymore, and most don't know the difference between the new model and old model other than cosmetic changes or new features (the processor not being one of them).

    I mean the iPhone Max is a beast. Definitely the fastest phone on the market. But speed isn't everything. Some people just enjoy Android over iOS.
    muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondon
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  • Reply 50 of 187
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    wizard69 said:
    Interesting  chip, and one long article.   The problem as I see it is that Apple needs for somebody to put this in high end devices, especially tablets.   To put it simply they need the competition.  Frankly there is t anAndroid tablet worth adamn right now and a straight Linux based tablet is even harder to find.  The lack of competition in this arena leaves Apple free too charge high prices, this isn’t good in the long run.  
    The problem with mobile processors is that they have a RAM memory limit (pin out) of 4GB (most have a limit of 2GB) and are thus unsuitable for desktop class systems and even ‘pro’ tablets.
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  • Reply 51 of 187
    Seth2015 said:
    A cross platform benchmark isn't dead accurate. I've already told you why and given an example - unsure why you're missing it?

    My i5 at home, I can install Linux and run a benchmark - let's say I get 12,000 little numbers on the screen. I now install Windows 10 on the same chip and get a 10,000. So for those that are slightly slower here (I'm looking at your madtiger) this is the same chip with a different result depending on the OS layer. 

    iOS is really efficient OS. It doesn't have the extra bloatware that Android has once a manufacture has got hold of it and put on their own skin. A fair comment would be the chip + OS is delivery these awesome figures ... but to pretend the A11 streets ahead of the Kirin 780 is just silly bias on your side. It really is the combination of the two

    And lastly, numbers on the screen aren't going to tell you the real world user performance. Yes - the iPhone s quick and smooth ... but my Mate 20 Pro is just the same. I've had zero issues with regards to speed ... but I guess I place more emphasis on real world than numbers on the screen ?  

    Your comment was that the devices run different OSes. True. However you say that means that the tests are invalid, which isn't true. 

    So the kernel is the first item. The kernel performs several tasks relevant to our tests: Tasking scheduling, RAM management and IO. We can assume that the first is negligible as there is only one high priority tasking running, the benchmark itself. The exception is during the multi-core tests. The question is does one OS provide a significant performance boost over the other due to its scheduling of threads. No, it doesn't. For proof of this we can look further afield to Linux and macOS in general. Will there be a difference, sure, but not enough to bias the results.  OS architecture affects performance when the program makes a system call. Geekbench and Antutu, though they have subtests that test system calls, are mostly looping common tasks that are confined to userspace and really just runs on bare metal. They don't touch the kernel.

    Next screen resolution. This of course is a factor for GPU tests. For Geekbench it is completely irrelevant. For AnTuTu it is indeed a factor, however AnTuTu has also altered its loads to include off screen rendering. Also, the screen resolutions of the devices under test are similar, not the same, but similar. So, overall nothing here, please move along.

    Up next is RAM. Well RAM isn’t part of the OS and it is actually part of the subsystem that we want to test. The differences in RAM performance are important to us, hence running the benchmarks in the first place. If you mean RAM management then that is a part of the kernel as I mentioned earlier. If the tests are doing lots of dynamic memory requests, asking for RAM from the OS and then returning it, then you would be correct. This would exercise the OS much more than the hardware. However, that is not what the tests do.  Display and RAM...Geekbench is an off-screen app. It doesn't push anything that the display resolution would affect. RAM might be an issue but it seems Geekbench fits well within the RAM of both devices just fine.

    Now we come to storage. It is indeed true that Geekbench contains IO related tests and it is also true that these do have a heavier OS reliance than the other tests. However two things to note. 1) Is that the tests are the same on both operating systems (i.e. using SQLite) and they aren’t specific aimed directly at the native filesystem. 2) While I agree that a bias dependent on the performance of the filesystem will exist, the question is will that biases be more than the performance characteristics of the hardware. Tough question. I will go with no, because the same tests run on different generations of the same platform (say the iPhone 7S compared to the iPhone 8 compared to the X) show the same relative performance increase as observed across platforms. In other words, if the processor under test shows performance gain X on iOS compared to iOS, but a very different relative performance gain on iOS to Android then something is wrong. However, we don’t see that.

    One more things to mention.The tests from Geekbench and AnTuTu are written in C, so there is no comparison of the Java Runtime library with Obj-C/Swift etc.

    The only real variable is the CPU governor and power throttling schemes. That can indeed affect performance from device to device, not just OS to OS. But Geekbench at least already has that taken into consideration. It has built-in "cooldown" periods when it detects CPU throttling.

    Finally, cross platform benchmarking is used all across the industry as a way to test hardware while minimizing the impact of the OS. Well known examples including tests like SPECint.

    radarthekatmuthuk_vanalingamtmaywatto_cobra
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  • Reply 52 of 187

    Seth2015 said:
    @tmay People use different devices. I have both an iPhone X (standby phone every 2 weeks) and Huawei. You want a real world opinion? You can't see the difference in speed in actual using the phones. There's no jitter or judder, despite what Strangedays thinks he knows.

    Anyhow - but based on the comments here slating Androids, it'd be interesting to see which the people have used (or even read about;). There's a great world out there of mobile phones! @Madtiger wasn't even aware that Huawei phones be bought anywhere in the world - yet they're the second largest manufacture behind Samsung? So, it's very interesting how he (and others) can be that opinionated on something he has zero idea about.  
    Huawei...BANNED.  Sorry.  They sell a lot in countries where it is not banned or thru 3rd party.  Oh look, its CFO got arrested...must be because they do honest business.  Oh wait...they support terrorist nations.  Good job there kid for supporting Huawei.
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 53 of 187
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    Lots of info, very good!

    If I might add: in general the OS handles resources like threads running on specific cores and apps (programs) do not need special software to use this resource management. So when several programs are multitasking the OS chooses the (number of) cores they run on.
    On a desktop OS typically all cores will be occupied when lots of apps run.
    A mobile OS like iOS is more constrained (because of ‘lack of resources) and is artificially limited in its use of cores, hence a ‘max’ of two.
    Apple has a very nice library (with OS support): GCD, that makes (with)in app parallelism transparent with respect to threads and cores and that’s a real advantage for app programmers.
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 54 of 187
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,243member
    Madtiger said:

    Seth2015 said:
    @tmay People use different devices. I have both an iPhone X (standby phone every 2 weeks) and Huawei. You want a real world opinion? You can't see the difference in speed in actual using the phones. There's no jitter or judder, despite what Strangedays thinks he knows.

    Anyhow - but based on the comments here slating Androids, it'd be interesting to see which the people have used (or even read about;). There's a great world out there of mobile phones! @Madtiger wasn't even aware that Huawei phones be bought anywhere in the world - yet they're the second largest manufacture behind Samsung? So, it's very interesting how he (and others) can be that opinionated on something he has zero idea about.  
    Huawei...BANNED.  Sorry.  They sell a lot in countries where it is not banned or thru 3rd party.  Oh look, its CFO got arrested...must be because they do honest business.  Oh wait...they support terrorist nations.  Good job there kid for supporting Huawei.
    Huawei handsets have not been banned. Much less 'BANNED'.

    Check out Amazon US.

    There are limitations on use in some areas (US military personnel for example) but that is applicable to many brands all over the world.

    I've known people in the 'intelligence' realm who can fly using civil aviation but not use aeroflot. The are restrictions for people in certain jobs.




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  • Reply 55 of 187
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:

    Seth2015 said:
    @tmay People use different devices. I have both an iPhone X (standby phone every 2 weeks) and Huawei. You want a real world opinion? You can't see the difference in speed in actual using the phones. There's no jitter or judder, despite what Strangedays thinks he knows.

    Anyhow - but based on the comments here slating Androids, it'd be interesting to see which the people have used (or even read about;). There's a great world out there of mobile phones! @Madtiger wasn't even aware that Huawei phones be bought anywhere in the world - yet they're the second largest manufacture behind Samsung? So, it's very interesting how he (and others) can be that opinionated on something he has zero idea about.  
    Huawei...BANNED.  Sorry.  They sell a lot in countries where it is not banned or thru 3rd party.  Oh look, its CFO got arrested...must be because they do honest business.  Oh wait...they support terrorist nations.  Good job there kid for supporting Huawei.
    Huawei handsets have not been banned. Much less 'BANNED'.

    Check out Amazon US.

    There are limitations on use in some areas (US military personnel for example) but that is applicable to many brands all over the world.

    I've known people in the 'intelligence' realm who can fly using civil aviation but not use aeroflot. The are restrictions for people in certain jobs.




    Banned from government jobs, telecommunication offices, military etc.  and that is just USA. 

    BANNED. 
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 56 of 187
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:

    Seth2015 said:
    @tmay People use different devices. I have both an iPhone X (standby phone every 2 weeks) and Huawei. You want a real world opinion? You can't see the difference in speed in actual using the phones. There's no jitter or judder, despite what Strangedays thinks he knows.

    Anyhow - but based on the comments here slating Androids, it'd be interesting to see which the people have used (or even read about;). There's a great world out there of mobile phones! @Madtiger wasn't even aware that Huawei phones be bought anywhere in the world - yet they're the second largest manufacture behind Samsung? So, it's very interesting how he (and others) can be that opinionated on something he has zero idea about.  
    Huawei...BANNED.  Sorry.  They sell a lot in countries where it is not banned or thru 3rd party.  Oh look, its CFO got arrested...must be because they do honest business.  Oh wait...they support terrorist nations.  Good job there kid for supporting Huawei.
    Huawei handsets have not been banned. Much less 'BANNED'.

    Check out Amazon US.

    There are limitations on use in some areas (US military personnel for example) but that is applicable to many brands all over the world.

    I've known people in the 'intelligence' realm who can fly using civil aviation but not use aeroflot. The are restrictions for people in certain jobs.




    Honest Q...you support Huawei 100%?  Even though they are sending OUR technology to IRAN?  The country that literally produces some of the worst terrorist networks and are responsible for killing your so many countrymen and our soldiers???!!!!  

    You our want to keep defending Huawei?  If so, then you’re pathetic. 
    tmayracerhomie3watto_cobra
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  • Reply 57 of 187
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,243member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:

    Seth2015 said:
    @tmay People use different devices. I have both an iPhone X (standby phone every 2 weeks) and Huawei. You want a real world opinion? You can't see the difference in speed in actual using the phones. There's no jitter or judder, despite what Strangedays thinks he knows.

    Anyhow - but based on the comments here slating Androids, it'd be interesting to see which the people have used (or even read about;). There's a great world out there of mobile phones! @Madtiger wasn't even aware that Huawei phones be bought anywhere in the world - yet they're the second largest manufacture behind Samsung? So, it's very interesting how he (and others) can be that opinionated on something he has zero idea about.  
    Huawei...BANNED.  Sorry.  They sell a lot in countries where it is not banned or thru 3rd party.  Oh look, its CFO got arrested...must be because they do honest business.  Oh wait...they support terrorist nations.  Good job there kid for supporting Huawei.
    Huawei handsets have not been banned. Much less 'BANNED'.

    Check out Amazon US.

    There are limitations on use in some areas (US military personnel for example) but that is applicable to many brands all over the world.

    I've known people in the 'intelligence' realm who can fly using civil aviation but not use aeroflot. The are restrictions for people in certain jobs.




    Honest Q...you support Huawei 100%?  Even though they are sending OUR technology to IRAN?  The country that literally produces some of the worst terrorist networks and are responsible for killing your so many countrymen and our soldiers???!!!!  

    You our want to keep defending Huawei?  If so, then you’re pathetic. 
    Honest answer: I support facts.


    muthuk_vanalingam
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  • Reply 58 of 187
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:

    Seth2015 said:
    @tmay People use different devices. I have both an iPhone X (standby phone every 2 weeks) and Huawei. You want a real world opinion? You can't see the difference in speed in actual using the phones. There's no jitter or judder, despite what Strangedays thinks he knows.

    Anyhow - but based on the comments here slating Androids, it'd be interesting to see which the people have used (or even read about;). There's a great world out there of mobile phones! @Madtiger wasn't even aware that Huawei phones be bought anywhere in the world - yet they're the second largest manufacture behind Samsung? So, it's very interesting how he (and others) can be that opinionated on something he has zero idea about.  
    Huawei...BANNED.  Sorry.  They sell a lot in countries where it is not banned or thru 3rd party.  Oh look, its CFO got arrested...must be because they do honest business.  Oh wait...they support terrorist nations.  Good job there kid for supporting Huawei.
    Huawei handsets have not been banned. Much less 'BANNED'.

    Check out Amazon US.

    There are limitations on use in some areas (US military personnel for example) but that is applicable to many brands all over the world.

    I've known people in the 'intelligence' realm who can fly using civil aviation but not use aeroflot. The are restrictions for people in certain jobs.




    Honest Q...you support Huawei 100%?  Even though they are sending OUR technology to IRAN?  The country that literally produces some of the worst terrorist networks and are responsible for killing your so many countrymen and our soldiers???!!!!  

    You our want to keep defending Huawei?  If so, then you’re pathetic. 
    Honest answer: I support facts.


    Facts?  No, what you stated are wrong.  Banned from government jobs, telecommunication offices, military etc.  and that is just USA. 

    BANNED. 

    edited December 2018
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 59 of 187
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,243member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:

    Seth2015 said:
    @tmay People use different devices. I have both an iPhone X (standby phone every 2 weeks) and Huawei. You want a real world opinion? You can't see the difference in speed in actual using the phones. There's no jitter or judder, despite what Strangedays thinks he knows.

    Anyhow - but based on the comments here slating Androids, it'd be interesting to see which the people have used (or even read about;). There's a great world out there of mobile phones! @Madtiger wasn't even aware that Huawei phones be bought anywhere in the world - yet they're the second largest manufacture behind Samsung? So, it's very interesting how he (and others) can be that opinionated on something he has zero idea about.  
    Huawei...BANNED.  Sorry.  They sell a lot in countries where it is not banned or thru 3rd party.  Oh look, its CFO got arrested...must be because they do honest business.  Oh wait...they support terrorist nations.  Good job there kid for supporting Huawei.
    Huawei handsets have not been banned. Much less 'BANNED'.

    Check out Amazon US.

    There are limitations on use in some areas (US military personnel for example) but that is applicable to many brands all over the world.

    I've known people in the 'intelligence' realm who can fly using civil aviation but not use aeroflot. The are restrictions for people in certain jobs.




    Banned from government jobs, telecommunication offices, military etc.  and that is just USA. 

    BANNED. 
    That is what you should have said, then. However, you didn't. You just threw a blanket 'BANNED' over everything.

    The fact remains, you can pick up any Huawei handset in the US with zero commercial restrictions.

    It is something completely different when your employer (be it the government or not) places its own restrictions.

    How is it possible that Huawei handsets can be sold legally throughout the US when they are 'banned'?
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  • Reply 60 of 187
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,467member
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:

    Seth2015 said:
    @tmay People use different devices. I have both an iPhone X (standby phone every 2 weeks) and Huawei. You want a real world opinion? You can't see the difference in speed in actual using the phones. There's no jitter or judder, despite what Strangedays thinks he knows.

    Anyhow - but based on the comments here slating Androids, it'd be interesting to see which the people have used (or even read about;). There's a great world out there of mobile phones! @Madtiger wasn't even aware that Huawei phones be bought anywhere in the world - yet they're the second largest manufacture behind Samsung? So, it's very interesting how he (and others) can be that opinionated on something he has zero idea about.  
    Huawei...BANNED.  Sorry.  They sell a lot in countries where it is not banned or thru 3rd party.  Oh look, its CFO got arrested...must be because they do honest business.  Oh wait...they support terrorist nations.  Good job there kid for supporting Huawei.
    Huawei handsets have not been banned. Much less 'BANNED'.

    Check out Amazon US.

    There are limitations on use in some areas (US military personnel for example) but that is applicable to many brands all over the world.

    I've known people in the 'intelligence' realm who can fly using civil aviation but not use aeroflot. The are restrictions for people in certain jobs.




    Honest Q...you support Huawei 100%?  Even though they are sending OUR technology to IRAN?  The country that literally produces some of the worst terrorist networks and are responsible for killing your so many countrymen and our soldiers???!!!!  

    You our want to keep defending Huawei?  If so, then you’re pathetic. 
    Honest answer: I support facts.


    The facts are the Huawei and ZTE resold U.S. technology into Iran at a time that Iran was sanctioned. ZTE has already paid for their mistake.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/06/us-probe-into-huawei-includes-accusations-of-bank-fraud-and-sanctions-violations-reuters.html
    racerhomie3watto_cobra
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