"Our current specification for iPad Pro flatness is up to 400 microns which is even tighter than previous generations," wrote Riccio.
If the spec is tighter than ever and people are stating the spec is unacceptable, why did those same people ever consider iPads specs acceptable?
"Apple's statement also indicated that it was not considered a defect in production, and that it was seeing a normal return rate, suggesting users are either not bothered or have not noticed the issue."
It would seem that there are a great many people noticing one or two people noticing an issue, but not many people noticing an issue themselves.
So Apple are doubling down on the mantra that it’s ok. Not acceptable to tell that to someone who just bought a bent iPad from you ! Or what about to those outside the 14 day return window?
Imagine discovering this normal manufacturaturing tolerance deviation after the 14 day period when Apple won’t accept the return, and then trying to explain it to someone down the line when you try to sell it.
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
Nonsense. Quit making stuff up to suit your narrative. People DO expect higher standards from Apple because they're a premium company. If something doesn't suit your standard, return it. Case closed. Apple isn't perfect but I wouldn't skewer the company because of some ridiculously small percentage of a product that is sold by the millions does has some kind of manufacturing issue.
It IS a non-issue. YOU are WANTING it to be a bigger issue than it really is. Nonsense like this makes for grand headlines, brings in troll-clicks to all the media sites, and in the end is forgotten about after people like you get your 15 minutes of fame.
Returning it till you get a good one IS the solution. If it's a bigger issue, Apple will address it in a redesign, and then people like you will then criticize Apple fixing it and not giving you lip-service.
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
That's not "pretty obvious" at all.
The statement says that the tolerances are 400 microns. That's an interesting fact. If you get one that is off by more than 400 microns then Apple considers it defective, just like they would if you get one that has a screen that doesn't work. They ship millions of devices; some will be defective. Now we know where that line is. We have no data about what percentage of new iPod pros are > 400 microns versus 100-399 microns versus <99 microns (none are 0 microns). Without data, we have no idea if this is a problem or the typical internet mountain out of a molehill.
Really not sure what you're disagreeing with. Based on the pics floating around it is pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. 400 microns is almost visually imperceptible. The bending we've seen pictured is not that. You and I agree that bending beyond 400 microns is defective. I said nothing about percentages. I said some were obviously beyond 400 microns. There's nothing to disagree with on that point.
The statement by Mr Riccio is exactly what one would expect from an organization being scrutinized. The first thing you always hear from a company involved in a user privacy leak is "we take user user privacy very seriously - blah blah blah." Replace "user privacy" with whatever subject you like and you will have the stock executive response that you can expect to be emitted from the company's representative. Nobody at all should be surprised about this.
Is this a real problem? If customers think it's a problem and if their perception diminishes their desire to purchase or satisfaction with the product, yes, it absolutely is a problem. The fact that a product meets or exceeds industry or vendor manufacturing tolerances doesn't matter. Customers always get the final choice.
As the author of the first AppleInsider article on this topic said, and as several commenters have already repeated, if you aren't satisfied with your purchase for any reason - bend or no bend, return it during the grace period provided by Apple. End of story. If you want to go all drama queen on this as if it were a severed limb type of problem that Apple should be made to suffer dire consequences for having inflicted, get a life. Nearly all physical products are manufactured at volume have acceptance tolerances in force. This is the nature of the beast.
If you're involved in any kind of "stock" racing competition that involves the use of supposedly "identical" parts you learn very quickly that identical does not mean identical, not when there are tolerances involved. Those who wish to attain a slight edge often cherry pick through parts bins to make sure the parts they choose have deviations within the range of tolerances that favor their build. In essence, you as a buyer are imposing tolerances that are more stringent than those followed by the manufacturer. I do dislike the thought that iPad Pro buyers would have to cherry pick units from inventory to find the one that they are most happy with, but the statements from Mr Riccio and the reasonable advice from levelheaded commenters is strongly alluding to this situation - but only if you are discerning or obsessive enough to base your purchase decision on your own set of tolerances rather than those that Apple adheres to. You can constantly complain that those who serve you are deficient if they do not live up to your personal standards, and you would not be wrong, in your world. But where there are standards being enforced and made known to you and the rest of the world, it's kind of unreasonable to try to drag everyone else into your world because that's not where they live. If you can't live with this reality, jump into the fray by building an alternative to the products that don't meet your more exacting standards. Plenty of great enterprises started with this type of motivation. You could be the next one. In the meantime, enjoy picking cherries.
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
RETURNED THE DARN BEND THINGY, now go somewhere ie Microsoft or Google thingy....be done w it...you cry baby
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
That's not "pretty obvious" at all.
The statement says that the tolerances are 400 microns. That's an interesting fact. If you get one that is off by more than 400 microns then Apple considers it defective, just like they would if you get one that has a screen that doesn't work. They ship millions of devices; some will be defective. Now we know where that line is. We have no data about what percentage of new iPod pros are > 400 microns versus 100-399 microns versus <99 microns (none are 0 microns). Without data, we have no idea if this is a problem or the typical internet mountain out of a molehill.
Really not sure what you're disagreeing with. Based on the pics floating around it is pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. 400 microns is almost visually imperceptible. The bending we've seen pictured is not that. You and I agree that bending beyond 400 microns is defective. I said nothing about percentages. I said some were obviously beyond 400 microns. There's nothing to disagree with on that point.
The human eye is very good at visualizing differentials; not so good at absolutes. A sightline of an edge could show half of that, 0.008 inch or 200 micron, and it would stand out like a sore thumb.. The test is to actually measure the gap on a flat reference surface with gage pins or feeler gage.
I often have to machine 0.110 inch thick copper heat spreaders for PC boards, and as another poster noted, these "potato chip" in almost every case from the release of internal stress in the base, rolled metal, by the machining process. I end up using a hand press and some acquired skill to straighten these, but I use the age old technique of using the edges as sightlines to determine whether I am over a 0.020 inch flatness spec. I can assure you that 0.020 looks like a huge amount of error on a visual sightline, but isn't really all that big a deal in real terms and applications.
I'm actually pretty impressed with the 12.9 inch iPad Pro, but having the first generation model, I'll wait for the killer apps to show up and buy the next generation.
Always surprising how quickly some people have a strong opinion. I’d be curious in specs and actual variation of straightness of other models before I would even dare to draw some conclusions.
I wish the picture had a ruler or something along side you you could see the degree of bending a little easier. Has anyone here tried to return one? If so, what happened?
I wish the picture had a ruler or something along side you you could see the degree of bending a little easier. Has anyone here tried to return one? If so, what happened?
Apple states that warping of 400 microns is within spec. This is obviously more than 400 microns so I would expect Apple to exchange it without question if it came out of the box like that.
400 microns is for the most part invisible to the human eye. Anyone that can spot that kind of tolerance issue can probably spot a pimple on a flea's ass from 5 miles away.
There are some really moronic people here trying to make it more an issue than it really is. For some reasons, simply returning/exchanging it isn't enough for these whiners. They thought they smelled blood and went on the usual attack.
It is worth noting that the photograph at the top of this thread blurs because of depth-of-field photographic effects, excacerbating the visual perception of a bend in the device.
A lot more light and a camera set at a higher f-stop would allow for the entire device to be more in focus, which would provide for a more fair representation of how bent or not bent the thing actually is.
That may be Apple's new standard, but it sure as hell isn't mine. It reflects shoddy construction and bad engineering. And it shouldn't bend under normal use (which doesn't include sitting on it). Apple seems to think that the public is begging for thinner and lighter ipads and iPhones. NO WE ARE NOT! We want innovation, quality, and durability, and if it means it's a millimeter thicker or 5 grams heavier, who gives a damn!
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
That's not "pretty obvious" at all.
The statement says that the tolerances are 400 microns. That's an interesting fact. If you get one that is off by more than 400 microns then Apple considers it defective, just like they would if you get one that has a screen that doesn't work. They ship millions of devices; some will be defective. Now we know where that line is. We have no data about what percentage of new iPod pros are > 400 microns versus 100-399 microns versus <99 microns (none are 0 microns). Without data, we have no idea if this is a problem or the typical internet mountain out of a molehill.
Really not sure what you're disagreeing with. Based on the pics floating around it is pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. 400 microns is almost visually imperceptible. The bending we've seen pictured is not that. You and I agree that bending beyond 400 microns is defective. I said nothing about percentages. I said some were obviously beyond 400 microns. There's nothing to disagree with on that point.
The human eye is very good at visualizing differentials; not so good at absolutes. A sightline of an edge could show half of that, 0.008 inch or 200 micron, and it would stand out like a sore thumb.. The test is to actually measure the gap on a flat reference surface with gage pins or feeler gage.
I often have to machine 0.110 inch thick copper heat spreaders for PC boards, and as another poster noted, these "potato chip" in almost every case from the release of internal stress in the base, rolled metal, by the machining process. I end up using a hand press and some acquired skill to straighten these, but I use the age old technique of using the edges as sightlines to determine whether I am over a 0.020 inch flatness spec. I can assure you that 0.020 looks like a huge amount of error on a visual sightline, but isn't really all that big a deal in real terms and applications.
I'm actually pretty impressed with the 12.9 inch iPad Pro, but having the first generation model, I'll wait for the killer apps to show up and buy the next generation.
Thank you. You answered the question addressed to me better and quicker than I could. It's not at all obvious that the pictured iPad is outside of tolerances. There are lots of "flat" edges that don't look flat when looked at at extreme angles.
Maybe the case meets that spec when it is milled but gets deformed during the rest of the assembly process?
What are you even talking about. Return the thing if it appears bent to you.Why is this something you have to tell people.
Why are you repeatedly saying "just return it"? I think everyone here knows to return it if it bent. But you seem hell bent (intented) on trying to down play the issue. People hold Apple to higher standards because Apple holds themselves to higher standards. They're responses to this issue, thus far don't reflect a high standard. It smacks of legalese. It's pretty obvious some of the bending is beyond 400 microns. That's not explained by "tolerances". The issue should be addressed properly so that people have confidence in the products they're buying. "Return 'til you get a good one" isn't the solution.
Nonsense. Quit making stuff up to suit your narrative. People DO expect higher standards from Apple because they're a premium company. If something doesn't suit your standard, return it. Case closed. Apple isn't perfect but I wouldn't skewer the company because of some ridiculously small percentage of a product that is sold by the millions does has some kind of manufacturing issue.
It IS a non-issue. YOU are WANTING it to be a bigger issue than it really is. Nonsense like this makes for grand headlines, brings in troll-clicks to all the media sites, and in the end is forgotten about after people like you get your 15 minutes of fame.
Returning it till you get a good one IS the solution. If it's a bigger issue, Apple will address it in a redesign, and then people like you will then criticize Apple fixing it and not giving you lip-service.
Calm down Susan. Your all caps emphasis does not add gravitas to your rant. Return it until you get a good one is not a solution to the issue. It's a remedy for one person's bent iPad. It's not a solution to the issue of the bending. There's a difference. Might I suggest you project your insecurities elsewhere. How the hell would I get 15 minutes of fame from this? You sound unhinged.
Because that isn't the policy. The policy is that you can return items (in like-new condition) within some period of time--just like any other retailer with normal policies. If you happen to buy a replacement of the same item, that's your business. But the policy isn't "open up box after box of new products until you find one that you imagine is better than others."
We bought an 11" iPad Pro for the office and one for each of our employees. They are all fine... straight as an arrow.
For those arguing that it should be perfectly straight... you do realize that this would be impossible, right? There is a certain level of play in every manufacturing process. I think the difference with this model is how it is designed... there is no way to hide a slight curvature. With older models, the curvature of the edges and back could possibly mask them, making them harder to detect. I think it's reasonable to expect some sort of tolerance. I'm not saying I'd be OK with that... if I were Apple I'd offer a replacement if it was opened and not in what the end-user considers mint condition. However, there does need to be some kind of standard or you'll have crazy people reporting a bend that is imperceptible.
I have had mine for a month and half now...and there is zero bend.. not even a single sheet of paper!
What Apple and Dan should do is physically show what bend amount they are claiming to be ok...Since the media loves to misinform and senseionlize.
Most articles i have seen about this issue show abused Ipads with huge bends and associate that with Apples comments .. which naturally will infuriate anyone concerned.
So Apple has to clearly show whats being senstinslized and misrepresented .. and counter that with clear pictures of their acceptable manufacturing tolerance claims.
Comments
If the spec is tighter than ever and people are stating the spec is unacceptable, why did those same people ever consider iPads specs acceptable?
"Apple's statement also indicated that it was not considered a defect in production, and that it was seeing a normal return rate, suggesting users are either not bothered or have not noticed the issue."
It would seem that there are a great many people noticing one or two people noticing an issue, but not many people noticing an issue themselves.
This doesn't surprise me.
Is this a real problem? If customers think it's a problem and if their perception diminishes their desire to purchase or satisfaction with the product, yes, it absolutely is a problem. The fact that a product meets or exceeds industry or vendor manufacturing tolerances doesn't matter. Customers always get the final choice.
As the author of the first AppleInsider article on this topic said, and as several commenters have already repeated, if you aren't satisfied with your purchase for any reason - bend or no bend, return it during the grace period provided by Apple. End of story. If you want to go all drama queen on this as if it were a severed limb type of problem that Apple should be made to suffer dire consequences for having inflicted, get a life. Nearly all physical products are manufactured at volume have acceptance tolerances in force. This is the nature of the beast.
If you're involved in any kind of "stock" racing competition that involves the use of supposedly "identical" parts you learn very quickly that identical does not mean identical, not when there are tolerances involved. Those who wish to attain a slight edge often cherry pick through parts bins to make sure the parts they choose have deviations within the range of tolerances that favor their build. In essence, you as a buyer are imposing tolerances that are more stringent than those followed by the manufacturer. I do dislike the thought that iPad Pro buyers would have to cherry pick units from inventory to find the one that they are most happy with, but the statements from Mr Riccio and the reasonable advice from levelheaded commenters is strongly alluding to this situation - but only if you are discerning or obsessive enough to base your purchase decision on your own set of tolerances rather than those that Apple adheres to. You can constantly complain that those who serve you are deficient if they do not live up to your personal standards, and you would not be wrong, in your world. But where there are standards being enforced and made known to you and the rest of the world, it's kind of unreasonable to try to drag everyone else into your world because that's not where they live. If you can't live with this reality, jump into the fray by building an alternative to the products that don't meet your more exacting standards. Plenty of great enterprises started with this type of motivation. You could be the next one. In the meantime, enjoy picking cherries.
I often have to machine 0.110 inch thick copper heat spreaders for PC boards, and as another poster noted, these "potato chip" in almost every case from the release of internal stress in the base, rolled metal, by the machining process. I end up using a hand press and some acquired skill to straighten these, but I use the age old technique of using the edges as sightlines to determine whether I am over a 0.020 inch flatness spec. I can assure you that 0.020 looks like a huge amount of error on a visual sightline, but isn't really all that big a deal in real terms and applications.
I'm actually pretty impressed with the 12.9 inch iPad Pro, but having the first generation model, I'll wait for the killer apps to show up and buy the next generation.
A lot more light and a camera set at a higher f-stop would allow for the entire device to be more in focus, which would provide for a more fair representation of how bent or not bent the thing actually is.
you are NOT helping the situation.
What you are saying is that Apple's "standards" just got a whole lot lower.
this just looks like the Fonz