Big finance sweating Apple Pay intrusion, consolidating payment services

Posted:
in General Discussion edited March 5
Barclays is reportedly having trouble attracting users to its BPay mobile payments system and the Pingit app in the United Kingdom, due to competition from Apple Pay and other competitors, with the bank allegedly preparing to merge the two services into one.

Barclays' BPay system used watches, wrist bands, keyfobs, and even stickers to perform contactless payments
Barclays' BPay system used watches, wrist bands, keyfobs, and even stickers to perform contactless payments


The two Barclays-produced services have not met the same sort of reaction from consumers as that of Apple Pay and others, which has prompted a rethink from the major bank. As part of the solution, Barclays intends to bring its less popular service BPay to be under the Pingit app, consolidating the two separate services into one.

In the United Kingdom, Pingit has managed to achieve a user base of 3.6 million people, a Barclays spokeswoman advised to Bloomberg. By contrast, BPay has users "in the high tens of thousands," effectively making it a failure in a relatively crowded payments market.

"We acknowledge that Pingit has many more users than bPay, but that's because bPay has built the UK wearables category from scratch, and the category itself is still in its infancy," Barclay's spokesperson Oliver Stevenson said in a statement to AppleInsider "The reason we are merging the two services is because we want to establish Pingit as our primary mobile payments brand, and we want to give Pingit users the wearables functionality currently enjoyed by our bPay customers, and vice versa."

Introduced in the UK in 2014, before the launch of Apple Pay in the country, BpPy allowed users to buy wearable devices that could be preloaded with funds for performing contactless payments, without requiring the use of a mobile device or a credit or debit card. Barclays partnered with watch brands including Timex and Guess to create wearables using BPay.

Once merged, BPay users will use the Pingit app to manage their accounts and their accessories.

Pingit has found success in allowing users to easily send money to each other, and in the UK has a direct competitor in the form of Paypal. It does not directly compete against Apple Pay in that market, as Apple Pay Cash is not available in the UK at the moment.

The bringing together of the two services is a sign traditional financial institutions are attempting to adapt to a payments market that has become saturated with new major players, such as Apple and Google. The increase of app-based consumer banking, such as Monzo, is also making it harder for high street banks to compete, due to the app banks able to fit more easily into a user's life, rather than requiring occasional visits to a physical location to manage their finances.

Barclays CEO Jess Staley believes the banking industry will face challenges against the influx of loosely-regulated opponents, such as Apple and Amazon, declaring in October 2017 that mobile payments is "the battleground of finance over the next 15 years." Barclays has already taken steps to counter the threat to its business, by partnering with PayPal in April 2019 to explore ways Pingit and Paypal could work together.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    Not only do you not have the same convenience and security of Apple Pay you have to pre-load? Chance of success <1%.
    SpamSandwichJWSClolliverjbdragonlostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 21
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 703unconfirmed, member

    GREAT!!


    I bet there is an article somewhere  of a CEO mocking Apple and laughing about ApplePay calling it a failure. Happens every damn time.


    Soli said:
    Not only do you not have the same convenience and security of Apple Pay you have to pre-load? Chance of success <1%.

    Apple really needs to show people how secure ApplePay is also. I know iKnockoff users who think SamsungPay is the same thing. It's not. If people understood that ApplePay is the most secure payment method in the world, we would have even more users and retailers on board.

    baconstangchiaJWSCn2itivguyapplesnorangeslolliverlostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 21
    What’s interesting is there is a movement to stop taking certain credit cards (Visa) because of high fees at retailers.

    Visa is also raising rates...

    They better watch out or they’re going to lose out to Apple Pay.

    What’s not clear is how Apple Pay makes Apple money...
  • Reply 4 of 21
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    What’s interesting is there is a movement to stop taking certain credit cards (Visa) because of high fees at retailers.

    Visa is also raising rates...

    They better watch out or they’re going to lose out to Apple Pay.

    What’s not clear is how Apple Pay makes Apple money…
    Apple makes money directly from purchases. They get a small portion of the service fee.

    I assume they also collect data on purchases to better figure out how to target customers (internal only, of course, not to use like FB and Google for sale).

    edit: 0.15%.

    edited March 5 AppleExposedlolliverjbdragonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 21
    boxcatcherboxcatcher Posts: 144member
    I wish some consultancy would pay me a few mil to tell these finance / retail corporations that it's effin' insane to try to compete with the major tech companies in this space.
    edited March 5 JWSClolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 21
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 703unconfirmed, member
    Soli said:
    What’s interesting is there is a movement to stop taking certain credit cards (Visa) because of high fees at retailers.

    Visa is also raising rates...

    They better watch out or they’re going to lose out to Apple Pay.

    What’s not clear is how Apple Pay makes Apple money…
    Apple makes money directly from purchases. They get a small portion of the service fee.

    I assume they also collect data on purchases to better figure out how to target customers (internal only, of course, not to use like FB and Google for sale).

    edit: 0.15%.


    .15%?


    Wow what a greedy company! /s

    Soli
  • Reply 7 of 21
    plstfflsplstffls Posts: 10member
    When Apple gets 0,15% of the amount paid, it proves their transactions are not secure at all, because Apple know the amounts transmitted.

    Apple should get a fixed fee per transaction processed, like e.g. 15 cent, whatever the amount of the payment is.




  • Reply 8 of 21

    I assume they also collect data on purchases to better figure out how to target customers (internal only, of course, not to use like FB and Google for sale).

    My understanding is Apple can’t “see” any of the transaction. Everything is tokenized. This ensures the security of the service, which allows the transaction to be considered a “card present” transaction, which carries a lower cost than a “card not present” transaction. 
    lolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 21
    muadibemuadibe Posts: 133member
    Soli said:
    What’s interesting is there is a movement to stop taking certain credit cards (Visa) because of high fees at retailers.

    Visa is also raising rates...

    They better watch out or they’re going to lose out to Apple Pay.

    What’s not clear is how Apple Pay makes Apple money…
    Apple makes money directly from purchases. They get a small portion of the service fee.

    I assume they also collect data on purchases to better figure out how to target customers (internal only, of course, not to use like FB and Google for sale).

    edit: 0.15%.

    If I remember correctly, Tim Cook said Apple collects no data on what is purchased in ApplePay transactions. 
    edited March 5 AppleExposedlolliverjbdragonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 21
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    muadibe said:
    Soli said:
    What’s interesting is there is a movement to stop taking certain credit cards (Visa) because of high fees at retailers.

    Visa is also raising rates...

    They better watch out or they’re going to lose out to Apple Pay.

    What’s not clear is how Apple Pay makes Apple money…
    Apple makes money directly from purchases. They get a small portion of the service fee.

    I assume they also collect data on purchases to better figure out how to target customers (internal only, of course, not to use like FB and Google for sale).

    edit: 0.15%.

    If I remember correctly, Tim Cook said Apple has no idea what is purchased in ApplePay transactions. 
    What, as in specific items, or no idea about amounts, number of cards used, or even when Apple Pay is used? I assume they don't know what, but probably know how often Apple Pay is used and may even get data on total amounts going through the financial institutions, if not directly, and would be very surprised if they don't know what's going with Apple Pay Cash as a service.

    edit: They're certainly getting some data, even if specific card data isn't being funnel to them.

    edited March 5 lolliver
  • Reply 11 of 21
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,118member
    95% of my payments are now done with my iPhone or Apple Watch, I don't see how ANYTHING can compete with the convenience, ease of use, security, universal nature, and benefits of Apple Pay. These other custom systems are all DoA. 
    AppleExposedlolliverjbdragonlostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 21
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 703unconfirmed, member
    plstffls said:
    When Apple gets 0,15% of the amount paid, it proves their transactions are not secure at all, because Apple know the amounts transmitted.

    Apple should get a fixed fee per transaction processed, like e.g. 15 cent, whatever the amount of the payment is.





    Apple isn't secure because they know how much they charge? Use a less secure method then? So Apple should get 15 cents when someone buys a TV or car?



    You couldn't make this crap up......

    n2itivguylolliverjbdragonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 21
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,286member
    Banks are notorious for not having a clue about computers and networks.
    I know the ABN-AMRO Bank dismissed its entire IT staff to outsource it to Bangalore ... several times. 
    The Dutch conglomerate of Banks, in its wisdom, create the ultimate digital age pay method: the chipknip.
    After 20 years or so they quietly removed it from service, because after countless millions of euros and countless years noone was using it, because it was utterly impractical. Like money without its value printed on it (you had to check its value at a ‘nearby’ cash dispenser (it was impossible to check in a store).
    Needless to say that still no one has a clue why this system failed.
    edited March 5 watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 21
    plstffls said:
    When Apple gets 0,15% of the amount paid, it proves their transactions are not secure at all, because Apple know the amounts transmitted.

    Apple should get a fixed fee per transaction processed, like e.g. 15 cent, whatever the amount of the payment is.


    Apple isn't secure because they know how much they charge? Use a less secure method then? So Apple should get 15 cents when someone buys a TV or car?

    My wife stops for coffee almost daily and uses Apple Pay, we've purchased 2 new TVs in the last 8 years. How hard do you think it would be for Apple to convince even just one credit card issuer to go to a 15 cent flat rate? And, like you, I'm lost on how that proves the transactions aren't secure.  I'll be waiting patiently to hear the explanation around that...
    edited March 5 AppleExposedn2itivguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 21
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    slurpy said:
    95% of my payments are now done with my iPhone or Apple Watch, I don't see how ANYTHING can compete with the convenience, ease of use, security, universal nature, and benefits of Apple Pay. These other custom systems are all DoA. 
    I'm even using Apple Pay at National Parks. Except for the few holdouts that are big enough to not hold up against the tide (for the time being) I use at most places that can take a card.
    lolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 21
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 384member
    I wish some consultancy would pay me a few mil to tell these finance / retail corporations that it's effin' insane to try to compete with the major tech companies in this space.
    Agree that in an open marketplace the tech companies would steamroller the banks.  But banking CEOs have friends in high places.  And regulation, in the name of protecting the people, can be used to stymie progress and competition.  The tech press needs to be vigilant over the next few years and call out any BS in the guise of protection.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 21
    sandorsandor Posts: 507member
    slurpy said:
    95% of my payments are now done with my iPhone or Apple Watch, I don't see how ANYTHING can compete with the convenience, ease of use, security, universal nature, and benefits of Apple Pay. These other custom systems are all DoA. 

    I'm okay with Apple Pay, but in terms of universality, i find my credit card with NFC built in actually works at more checkout locations than Apple Pay.

  • Reply 18 of 21
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 703unconfirmed, member
    plstffls said:
    When Apple gets 0,15% of the amount paid, it proves their transactions are not secure at all, because Apple know the amounts transmitted.

    Apple should get a fixed fee per transaction processed, like e.g. 15 cent, whatever the amount of the payment is.


    Apple isn't secure because they know how much they charge? Use a less secure method then? So Apple should get 15 cents when someone buys a TV or car?

    My wife stops for coffee almost daily and uses Apple Pay, we've purchased 2 new TVs in the last 8 years. How hard do you think it would be for Apple to convince even just one credit card issuer to go to a 15 cent flat rate? And, like you, I'm lost on how that proves the transactions aren't secure.  I'll be waiting patiently to hear the explanation around that...


    People are actually buying cars with Apple Pay. I'm being easy on the kid.


    Remember this?

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/21/most-expensive-in-app-purchase-ever-apple-pay-used-to-buy-1-million-aston-martin

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 21
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    plstffls said:
    When Apple gets 0,15% of the amount paid, it proves their transactions are not secure at all, because Apple know the amounts transmitted.

    Apple should get a fixed fee per transaction processed, like e.g. 15 cent, whatever the amount of the payment is.
    1) That wouldn't make the transaction un-secure.

    2) That is most likely done via accounting from the financial institutions.
    AppleExposedlolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 21
    muadibemuadibe Posts: 133member
    Soli said:
    muadibe said:
    Soli said:
    What’s interesting is there is a movement to stop taking certain credit cards (Visa) because of high fees at retailers.

    Visa is also raising rates...

    They better watch out or they’re going to lose out to Apple Pay.

    What’s not clear is how Apple Pay makes Apple money…
    Apple makes money directly from purchases. They get a small portion of the service fee.

    I assume they also collect data on purchases to better figure out how to target customers (internal only, of course, not to use like FB and Google for sale).

    edit: 0.15%.

    If I remember correctly, Tim Cook said Apple has no idea what is purchased in ApplePay transactions. 
    What, as in specific items, or no idea about amounts, number of cards used, or even when Apple Pay is used? I assume they don't know what, but probably know how often Apple Pay is used and may even get data on total amounts going through the financial institutions, if not directly, and would be very surprised if they don't know what's going with Apple Pay Cash as a service.

    edit: They're certainly getting some data, even if specific card data isn't being funnel to them.

    I actually edited the post to say that Apple doesn’t collect data on what is purchased. What I mean by that is they don’t know what you are buying. Of course they track things like amounts, etc. 
    watto_cobra
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