Apple Card offers simplified and secure Goldman Sachs-backed credit card with daily reward...

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Comments

  • Reply 221 of 279
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    1) It's about time someone stepped up to offer a financial incentive to using Apple Pay.

    2) That card looks great and I'm glad there is no signature on it. I never understood why that was ever a thing, like some minimum wage retail employee can gauge whether my sig was forged or wether I was just lazy in signing.
    You’re such an elitist. Some of the best and most intelligent people start out as a “minimum wage retail employee”. Stop acting like you’re better than everyone all the time. 
    Your response here is way off the wall.  He was just pointing out how useless signatures are with respect to credit cards.  I once had a card refused because the Ink was smudged off due to years of use.  Kind of asinine considering the signature has zero value in identifying me alone.  
    It used to be that merchants would actually compare the signature on the credit slip with the one on the card side by side, and if the card itself wasn't signed, they'd ask for a picture ID to compare.  I haven't had that happen in a couple of decades.  In fact, even with a credit transaction, if the charge is below a certain amount, they don't even ask for a signature!
    I get a lot of things coming in from UPS, FedEx, etc. we joke about the signature. Often, it’s so bad, it looks nothing like, well, anything really. But it doesn’t matter. Or, they leave it without one.
  • Reply 222 of 279
    cgWerks said:
    Apple Card will not be limited to being a digital-only card, as a physical titanium version will be available to use at outlets where Apple Pay is not accepted. The card won't have details like a card number, CVV code, expiration date, or signature, but the data will be available to users from within the Wallet app.
    Sorry, I don't have time to day to read a couple hundred comments to see if this has been addressed, but..

    Does anyone know what this means? Like, there is a CC number, CCV, etc associated with the card, but just not printed on it? And, you get that info via the Wallet app? And, what is the point of this physical card? It is just so you can have it in your wallet if you're going out without your phone? (As, without the CC number, expiration, etc. it isn't going to necessarily work where they don't have ApplePay anyway, right?)
    Correct, if you need the other info it’s in the Wallet app. The card is for use at terminals that don’t accept NFC payments. 

    Although, good luck using it at an Apple Store when their POS system goes down and they pull out the old imprint machine. Time to use a different card that has raised numbers or make your purchase later. 
    Well there you go.  Clearly a deal breaker.  I only shop at an Apple Store a few times a year and I've never experienced a payment outage, but just in case... /s
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 223 of 279
    sflocal said:
    Sign me up!!
    I signed up.  This is a great development for Apple.  I love how this card will not share anything of me to 3rd party folks.  Looking forward to canceling my other cards and giving them the middle finger.

    This was a shot across the bow to other card issuers.  Just like Apple revolutionized the smartphone, I hope they do the same to credit cards which is LONG overdue!
    I did too (well, all that’s available right now is an option for them to notify me).

    But I must admit to being somewhat surprised, even a tad disappointed, that Apple did not offer the contactless option for the physical card. It’s becming quite common all over Europe. 
    Perhaps they will do so when they roll it out in Europe where contactless terminal usage is more common than it is in the US.
    This could be tricky for Apple: every contactless cc transaction is one less from either the Watch or iPhone. So there’s a tension there, since I am guessing that Apple would rather see more of the latter. 

    Which in turn could sggest some opportunities for the physical card to have the ability to communicate with the iPhone every time a transaction is done — e.g., storing the details of the transaction. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 224 of 279
    sflocal said:
    Sign me up!!
    I signed up.  This is a great development for Apple.  I love how this card will not share anything of me to 3rd party folks.  Looking forward to canceling my other cards and giving them the middle finger.

    This was a shot across the bow to other card issuers.  Just like Apple revolutionized the smartphone, I hope they do the same to credit cards which is LONG overdue!
    I did too (well, all that’s available right now is an option for them to notify me).

    But I must admit to being somewhat surprised, even a tad disappointed, that Apple did not offer the contactless option for the physical card. It’s becming quite common all over Europe. 
    Perhaps they will do so when they roll it out in Europe where contactless terminal usage is more common than it is in the US.
    Can't you use your iPhone or watch with contactless terminals?  If so, then the card itself isn't used on those circumstances.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 225 of 279
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    1) It's about time someone stepped up to offer a financial incentive to using Apple Pay.

    2) That card looks great and I'm glad there is no signature on it. I never understood why that was ever a thing, like some minimum wage retail employee can gauge whether my sig was forged or wether I was just lazy in signing.
    You’re such an elitist. Some of the best and most intelligent people start out as a “minimum wage retail employee”. Stop acting like you’re better than everyone all the time. 
    Your response here is way off the wall.  He was just pointing out how useless signatures are with respect to credit cards.  I once had a card refused because the Ink was smudged off due to years of use.  Kind of asinine considering the signature has zero value in identifying me alone.  
    It used to be that merchants would actually compare the signature on the credit slip with the one on the card side by side, and if the card itself wasn't signed, they'd ask for a picture ID to compare.  I haven't had that happen in a couple of decades.  In fact, even with a credit transaction, if the charge is below a certain amount, they don't even ask for a signature!
    A few years ago I worked in a retail eastablishment in Massachusetts. We were told to check for a signature on a credit card and if one wasn’t present to ask to see state ID.  However, we were also informed it was Massachusetts law (I have no idea if that is true, just that this is what our management team told us) that if a person refused to show state ID we could not deny using an unsigned credit card. Huh? So, if someone was using a credit card with no signature we, potentially, had no way to verify if that person was who they said they were. They could sign the receipt however they wanted and didn’t have to prove their name matched what was on the card.

    Again, I don’t have proof of the that, it’s simply what we were told and how the whole store operated.
    That sounds about right.  However it may be the credit card companies that set those rules (not Massachusetts).  https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/can-retailers-ask-id-with-credit_card-1282.php
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 226 of 279
    electorelector Posts: 56member
    I tried to reply last evening on this subject but the post went the way of the west.

    First off many here are not even going to get the card. The credit standards are not going to be lowered to have Apple customers even use this type of credit card.

    Most credit cards today are able to be linked with Apple Pay and have much better perks. I have loaded them on my iphone and I use the credit card that gives the best perks, be it cash back or 3% or 2% on each purchase. I have one card that gives 5 times the points if used at their company shops etc. and since I pay off the card each month I don't incur any outstanding debt.

    Yes if paying a mortgage that is debt paid over time. Credit cards no. I am sure not many people pay their cards off in full. However like I said to another forum poster last evening that mentioned Amex they offer payment over time after using the pay in full (Green Card) (Gold Card) (Platinum Card) or (Black Card) for established payments. but if a person just wants to pay over time they do have the (Blue Card) from American Express with interest rates on the high side.

    I think people should wait and see what the terms and conditions are prior to the " I want one phase"

    But that is my opinion. 
  • Reply 227 of 279
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    6502 said:
    sflocal said:
    6502 said:
    I pay cash for all my cars. And, I sleep like a baby at night knowing I don't owe anyone a nickel. The borrower is slave to the lender. You are criticizing me for being fiscally sound? LOL. If you enjoy paying fees and interest be my guest. I know I'll never be sued for not being able to pay on a load I don't have.
    Well that's just good for you.  Paying cash when you can use someone else's money is not sound planning as far as I'm concerned.  I bought my car a couple years ago with 0% financing.  I had the cash, but why take my $50K out of the market when I can keep it working for me?

    The money I made on that $50K over the two years resulted in a significant "discount" on my car when I paid it off 8 months ago.  
    Wow, you sure scammed them. Good for you. Zero percent auto financing is rare, usually reserved for poor selling cars or a bad economy. You know how many people went bankrupt "using someone else's money"? Sounds like a late night real estate infomercial.
    I pay off my credit card every month, so it is just a debt card with an extension for me. However calling somebody who took advantage of a 0% financing a scammer is clearly nonsense. 
    beowulfschmidtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 228 of 279
    65026502 Posts: 380member
    I am literally lol at some of these commenters. All of business, from banking to construction to real estate development, is entirely 100% based on lending, credit, debt, and repayment over time with interest. If there was no such thing the world economy would be in tatters — because few can afford to build a skyscraper or shopping center or even a house with cash. It has always been this way, and will always be this way. But sure, preach on with your cute debt-free piggy banks. Doesn’t change a thing in the real world.
    We're talking about personal finance not building skyscrapers. Yes, real estate development is based on lending (but not 100% of it is) but real estate brings an income and increases in value unlike nearly everything else. And they're not charging it to their apple card, they get very low interest bank loans or bonds. We're talking about people buying a $15 drink at starbucks and paying it off over a 3 yr period at 14% interest since they couldn't afford the drink to begin with.

    Many businesses have gone bankrupt as they couldn't pay back their loans, Radioshack, Toy R us, Payless, Sports Authority, Sears, and many more.

    Studies have shown 100% of bankruptcies happen to those with loans.
    chemengincgWerks
  • Reply 229 of 279
    65026502 Posts: 380member
    6502 said:
    sflocal said:
    6502 said:
    What the heck are you talking about?  I didn't "scam" anyone.  Stop changing the narrative to suit your agenda.  I have a perfect credit score of 850.  That 0% financing was offered only to folks with the best credit.  Folks with low credit don't qualify because obviously, if they are more a credit risk than they have to pay more for the privilege of financing.  In addition, that 0% was only for vehicles of the prior model year.  It has nothing to do with your fabricated "poor selling" vehicles.  My car is one on the best sellers for Ford so give it a rest.

    That 0% deal is not rare.  Stop making shit up if you don't know.  This was offered to anyone that qualified, meaning responsible people.  If you really believe paying $50K for a car in cash is better than a 0% loan allowing you to keep your money working for you, then maybe you are the one that got swayed by those late night infomercials and got suckered into one.
    Zero % car financing is rare as obviously they make no money on loaning you money. Show me a manufacturer offering 0% currently. They probably just wanted to get rid of that car that's been on their lot all year (it was costing them money as they probably took a loan out to buy it). The only way you get a perfect credit score is by borrowing a lot of money, after all it is called a "credit" score. I assume once your home mortgage is paid off, you'll remortgage it and invest that money in the stock market. After all the mortgage rate is 4.5% and the market returns 10%. But, you know you won't do that. You're forgetting about risk.

    I'll continue to be a multimillionaire that never goes into debt, and you can continue to do whatever it is you do.
    Forget how to use Google? https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/interest-free-car-deals

    And my house (in San Francisco) is paid off.  No mortgage and financially, doing just fine.  

    By your arrogance, wouldn't surprise me if your "multimillionaire" status includes your parents' money, assuming you're even remotely telling the truth.  Based on your prior posts, It's most likely the latter.
    None of those I'm remotely interested in. I'd rather get a much larger cash back than 0% interest.

    No, I'm a self made millionaire, I've gotten no inheritance or gifts. I've had a good income, and made sound investment decisions. Believe me or don't believe me, I really don't give a shit. And, I'm being arrogant by saying I don't go into debt?

    Why haven't you remortgaged your house at 4.5% and invest that money at 10% in the market? Think of how much money you'll make!
    Weird you should ask him that question, given your braggadocio about understanding risk and return: on a 40% tax bracket (which, as a "millionaire" you probably are), your actual cost of borrowing is 2.7%; an investment in A-rated (probably comparable in terms of the actual risk) municipal bonds gives you an after-tax 3.5%.

    Why are you leaving $$ on the table?
    Of course a 40% tax bracket doesn't mean all your income is taxed at 40% and don't forget about the SALT and mortgage interest deduction limit. The reason people don't remortgage their paid for house is they don't want to risk losing it in a market down turn.
  • Reply 230 of 279
    65026502 Posts: 380member


    6502 said:
    6502 said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    Apple the most disruptive corporate force in entrenched business practices. They shook the Computer Industry to its core and changed the way people interacted with computers. They did this by changing the basic philosophy and premise of computing. They personalized it. Game Changer. They did it with music, how it was distributed, how it was carried, how it was consumed. Game Changer. Now they are bring that same disruptive force to the financial industry. Credit Cards have been pretty pedestrian for decades. They have been entirely industry (financial industry driven) as a result the ways they have tried to interact with their consumers have been more and more driven by their self interest with little concern for the consumer experience. AppleCard... Game Changer.

    Does it break the mold for rewards? Nope. Does it break the mold for cost? Nope. Does it break the mold for all things reward driven Credit Card? Nope. It just thinks different and delivers a better consumer experience in delivering it. Apple just Apple-ized Consumer Credit. 10 years from now we will all look back and say "of course making it easier for Credit Approval should be this easy. Of course all of the things that AppleCard just delivered to consumer finance should have been implemented." Except Chase, Bank of America, Well Fargo, and a myriad of other Financial Industry Titans could have done it but didn't. They had to have the foundation of their business model moved beneath them by Apple.

    Troll away with, how "Meh, my card does all that already. Big Deal! Why are Apple fanbois such tewls?", indifference. DOS command line users used to LOVE how easy it was to do things too. Now we all just do things differently. We all just do things differently, more intuitively, and simply, since Apple decided to innovate the processes.
    If you think the Apple Card is a game changer, you've set a very low bar.
    And your indifference to the shift will be looked at as part of the problem that Apple just solved for an industry it didn't NEED to be involved in. Apple doesn't make moves and involve itself in things if it doesn't feel like it can make a significant (read profitable) change in a significant way. This big dog doesn't get off the porch unless there is a need. You staring at the enormity of the dog and saying " psssshhht! I've seen bigger dogs" Misses the point a little. You pulling the curtain back and pointing to the Great Wizard, 5 minutes into the movie, misses the point a bit. It's all Meh bro, life isn't that complicated. Your indifference and nonchalantness isn't all that earth shattering, in fact Microsoft and IBM used to say "they only represent less than 3% of all computer users..." too. How is that indifference working out for them?
    So Apple is now a martyr for saving the credit card industry? My credit card is a next to nothing part of my life. I charge things on it, pay it off when due and don't think twice about it. This is not what made Apple great.
    LOL You sir are not the average consumer. Congrats on WINNING! Apple isn't a martyr. They won't die because of this. They will however, usher in a changed ecosystem that never existed before. They will usher in a new and easier way for the "average consumer" to interact with their finances. Bro clearly this isn't a big deal to you. However, your incredible money skillz aren't who this is for. This is for the average user. This is for the masses. This just took your "I'm winning at life cuz I can finance..." and made it easier for the average user to win. GAME CHANGER. Your once venerable DOS Command Line user skillz have just been fossilized. Welcome to irrelevance. 
    So it's for people who buy stuff they don't need, with money they don't have to impress people they don't like (to quote Dave Ramsey). In other words, imbeciles.
    The worst kind of imbecile is one who does not understand the opportunity cost of using one’s capital.

    When someone says “I never take on debt,” they simply have no clue how they could have invested their capital to earn a higher rate of return, and therefore how, by avoiding debt, they’re incurring an opportunity cost. 

    I recommend some Econ 101. 
    And you're forgetting about risk. Why doesn't everyone remortgage their paid off house and invest the money? I recommend some high school econ.
    Too bad that the autarkic barter economy doesn't exist in your primitive financial world...
    My financial world may be primitive, but it's gained me several million dollars and I sleep like a baby at night. I don't worry about margin calls, or not being able to pay my debts. To me that's worth a lot.
    Anyone who buys stock on margin is, indeed, an imbecile -- most brokerages charge personal investors 6%-7%. But that's not what you've been talking about. You've been berating people for borrowing mortgage debt at 4.5% (pre-tax), which makes no sense (given your supposed financial savvy).

    Moreover, your arrogance is laid bare by the stupid comment that you "sleep like a baby at night." Does it occur to you that is for exactly the same reason that, some people who may not have the ability make ends meet during the last week of the month might decide to not pay off 100% of their cc charges by the end of the month? 

    Or, is sleep only for arrogant internet twits like you?
    I never berated anyone for taking out a reasonable mortgage loan and paying it off as fast as you can. I said many times before that this is the only acceptable loan to take out and only because it is for an asset that you live in and increases in value. I berated people for using credit card debt as a way to finance a life style they cannot afford. Cry me a river if you can't budget your money and save an emergency fund.

    But, I'm an arrogant internet twit for being fiscally responsible that lives well below my means and never goes into consumer debt. I'm happily a twit then.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 231 of 279
    65026502 Posts: 380member


    6502 said:
    6502 said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    Apple the most disruptive corporate force in entrenched business practices. They shook the Computer Industry to its core and changed the way people interacted with computers. They did this by changing the basic philosophy and premise of computing. They personalized it. Game Changer. They did it with music, how it was distributed, how it was carried, how it was consumed. Game Changer. Now they are bring that same disruptive force to the financial industry. Credit Cards have been pretty pedestrian for decades. They have been entirely industry (financial industry driven) as a result the ways they have tried to interact with their consumers have been more and more driven by their self interest with little concern for the consumer experience. AppleCard... Game Changer.

    Does it break the mold for rewards? Nope. Does it break the mold for cost? Nope. Does it break the mold for all things reward driven Credit Card? Nope. It just thinks different and delivers a better consumer experience in delivering it. Apple just Apple-ized Consumer Credit. 10 years from now we will all look back and say "of course making it easier for Credit Approval should be this easy. Of course all of the things that AppleCard just delivered to consumer finance should have been implemented." Except Chase, Bank of America, Well Fargo, and a myriad of other Financial Industry Titans could have done it but didn't. They had to have the foundation of their business model moved beneath them by Apple.

    Troll away with, how "Meh, my card does all that already. Big Deal! Why are Apple fanbois such tewls?", indifference. DOS command line users used to LOVE how easy it was to do things too. Now we all just do things differently. We all just do things differently, more intuitively, and simply, since Apple decided to innovate the processes.
    If you think the Apple Card is a game changer, you've set a very low bar.
    And your indifference to the shift will be looked at as part of the problem that Apple just solved for an industry it didn't NEED to be involved in. Apple doesn't make moves and involve itself in things if it doesn't feel like it can make a significant (read profitable) change in a significant way. This big dog doesn't get off the porch unless there is a need. You staring at the enormity of the dog and saying " psssshhht! I've seen bigger dogs" Misses the point a little. You pulling the curtain back and pointing to the Great Wizard, 5 minutes into the movie, misses the point a bit. It's all Meh bro, life isn't that complicated. Your indifference and nonchalantness isn't all that earth shattering, in fact Microsoft and IBM used to say "they only represent less than 3% of all computer users..." too. How is that indifference working out for them?
    So Apple is now a martyr for saving the credit card industry? My credit card is a next to nothing part of my life. I charge things on it, pay it off when due and don't think twice about it. This is not what made Apple great.
    LOL You sir are not the average consumer. Congrats on WINNING! Apple isn't a martyr. They won't die because of this. They will however, usher in a changed ecosystem that never existed before. They will usher in a new and easier way for the "average consumer" to interact with their finances. Bro clearly this isn't a big deal to you. However, your incredible money skillz aren't who this is for. This is for the average user. This is for the masses. This just took your "I'm winning at life cuz I can finance..." and made it easier for the average user to win. GAME CHANGER. Your once venerable DOS Command Line user skillz have just been fossilized. Welcome to irrelevance. 
    So it's for people who buy stuff they don't need, with money they don't have to impress people they don't like (to quote Dave Ramsey). In other words, imbeciles.
    The worst kind of imbecile is one who does not understand the opportunity cost of using one’s capital.

    When someone says “I never take on debt,” they simply have no clue how they could have invested their capital to earn a higher rate of return, and therefore how, by avoiding debt, they’re incurring an opportunity cost. 

    I recommend some Econ 101. 
    And you're forgetting about risk. Why doesn't everyone remortgage their paid off house and invest the money? I recommend some high school econ.
    Too bad that the autarkic barter economy doesn't exist in your primitive financial world...
    My financial world may be primitive, but it's gained me several million dollars and I sleep like a baby at night. I don't worry about margin calls, or not being able to pay my debts. To me that's worth a lot.
    Anyone who buys stock on margin is, indeed, an imbecile -- most brokerages charge personal investors 6%-7%. But that's not what you've been talking about. You've been berating people for borrowing mortgage debt at 4.5% (pre-tax), which makes no sense (given your supposed financial savvy).

    Moreover, your arrogance is laid bare by the stupid comment that you "sleep like a baby at night." Does it occur to you that is for exactly the same reason that, some people who may not have the ability make ends meet during the last week of the month might decide to not pay off 100% of their cc charges by the end of the month? 

    Or, is sleep only for arrogant internet twits like you?
    I never berated anyone for taking out a reasonable mortgage loan and paying it off as fast as you can. I said many times before that this is the only acceptable loan to take out and only because it is for an asset that you live in and increases in value. I berated people for using credit card debt as a way to finance a life style they cannot afford. Cry me a river if you can't budget your money and save an emergency fund.

    But, I'm an arrogant internet twit for being fiscally responsible that lives well below my means and never goes into consumer debt. I'm happily a twit then.
  • Reply 232 of 279
    6502 said:
    6502 said:
    sflocal said:
    6502 said:
    What the heck are you talking about?  I didn't "scam" anyone.  Stop changing the narrative to suit your agenda.  I have a perfect credit score of 850.  That 0% financing was offered only to folks with the best credit.  Folks with low credit don't qualify because obviously, if they are more a credit risk than they have to pay more for the privilege of financing.  In addition, that 0% was only for vehicles of the prior model year.  It has nothing to do with your fabricated "poor selling" vehicles.  My car is one on the best sellers for Ford so give it a rest.

    That 0% deal is not rare.  Stop making shit up if you don't know.  This was offered to anyone that qualified, meaning responsible people.  If you really believe paying $50K for a car in cash is better than a 0% loan allowing you to keep your money working for you, then maybe you are the one that got swayed by those late night infomercials and got suckered into one.
    Zero % car financing is rare as obviously they make no money on loaning you money. Show me a manufacturer offering 0% currently. They probably just wanted to get rid of that car that's been on their lot all year (it was costing them money as they probably took a loan out to buy it). The only way you get a perfect credit score is by borrowing a lot of money, after all it is called a "credit" score. I assume once your home mortgage is paid off, you'll remortgage it and invest that money in the stock market. After all the mortgage rate is 4.5% and the market returns 10%. But, you know you won't do that. You're forgetting about risk.

    I'll continue to be a multimillionaire that never goes into debt, and you can continue to do whatever it is you do.
    Forget how to use Google? https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/interest-free-car-deals

    And my house (in San Francisco) is paid off.  No mortgage and financially, doing just fine.  

    By your arrogance, wouldn't surprise me if your "multimillionaire" status includes your parents' money, assuming you're even remotely telling the truth.  Based on your prior posts, It's most likely the latter.
    None of those I'm remotely interested in. I'd rather get a much larger cash back than 0% interest.

    No, I'm a self made millionaire, I've gotten no inheritance or gifts. I've had a good income, and made sound investment decisions. Believe me or don't believe me, I really don't give a shit. And, I'm being arrogant by saying I don't go into debt?

    Why haven't you remortgaged your house at 4.5% and invest that money at 10% in the market? Think of how much money you'll make!
    Weird you should ask him that question, given your braggadocio about understanding risk and return: on a 40% tax bracket (which, as a "millionaire" you probably are), your actual cost of borrowing is 2.7%; an investment in A-rated (probably comparable in terms of the actual risk) municipal bonds gives you an after-tax 3.5%.

    Why are you leaving $$ on the table?
    Of course a 40% tax bracket doesn't mean all your income is taxed at 40% and don't forget about the SALT and mortgage interest deduction limit. The reason people don't remortgage their paid for house is they don't want to risk losing it in a market down turn.
    Um... you should always make financial decisions using the marginal -- not the average -- tax rate, shouldn't you? In other words, I am sure you know that the essence of good financial decision making is to look at the tax effects of the incremental dollar that comes in or goes out as a result of that decision?
    edited March 2019
  • Reply 233 of 279
    65026502 Posts: 380member
    asdasd said:
    6502 said:
    sflocal said:
    6502 said:
    I pay cash for all my cars. And, I sleep like a baby at night knowing I don't owe anyone a nickel. The borrower is slave to the lender. You are criticizing me for being fiscally sound? LOL. If you enjoy paying fees and interest be my guest. I know I'll never be sued for not being able to pay on a load I don't have.
    Well that's just good for you.  Paying cash when you can use someone else's money is not sound planning as far as I'm concerned.  I bought my car a couple years ago with 0% financing.  I had the cash, but why take my $50K out of the market when I can keep it working for me?

    The money I made on that $50K over the two years resulted in a significant "discount" on my car when I paid it off 8 months ago.  
    Wow, you sure scammed them. Good for you. Zero percent auto financing is rare, usually reserved for poor selling cars or a bad economy. You know how many people went bankrupt "using someone else's money"? Sounds like a late night real estate infomercial.
    I pay off my credit card every month, so it is just a debt card with an extension for me. However calling somebody who took advantage of a 0% financing a scammer is clearly nonsense. 
    Of course I was being sarcastic. He was so proud of his 0% two year loan. And he likely could have gotten a higher cash rebate if paid in cash instead of taking the loan.
  • Reply 234 of 279
    65026502 Posts: 380member

    6502 said:
    6502 said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    Apple the most disruptive corporate force in entrenched business practices. They shook the Computer Industry to its core and changed the way people interacted with computers. They did this by changing the basic philosophy and premise of computing. They personalized it. Game Changer. They did it with music, how it was distributed, how it was carried, how it was consumed. Game Changer. Now they are bring that same disruptive force to the financial industry. Credit Cards have been pretty pedestrian for decades. They have been entirely industry (financial industry driven) as a result the ways they have tried to interact with their consumers have been more and more driven by their self interest with little concern for the consumer experience. AppleCard... Game Changer.

    Does it break the mold for rewards? Nope. Does it break the mold for cost? Nope. Does it break the mold for all things reward driven Credit Card? Nope. It just thinks different and delivers a better consumer experience in delivering it. Apple just Apple-ized Consumer Credit. 10 years from now we will all look back and say "of course making it easier for Credit Approval should be this easy. Of course all of the things that AppleCard just delivered to consumer finance should have been implemented." Except Chase, Bank of America, Well Fargo, and a myriad of other Financial Industry Titans could have done it but didn't. They had to have the foundation of their business model moved beneath them by Apple.

    Troll away with, how "Meh, my card does all that already. Big Deal! Why are Apple fanbois such tewls?", indifference. DOS command line users used to LOVE how easy it was to do things too. Now we all just do things differently. We all just do things differently, more intuitively, and simply, since Apple decided to innovate the processes.
    If you think the Apple Card is a game changer, you've set a very low bar.
    And your indifference to the shift will be looked at as part of the problem that Apple just solved for an industry it didn't NEED to be involved in. Apple doesn't make moves and involve itself in things if it doesn't feel like it can make a significant (read profitable) change in a significant way. This big dog doesn't get off the porch unless there is a need. You staring at the enormity of the dog and saying " psssshhht! I've seen bigger dogs" Misses the point a little. You pulling the curtain back and pointing to the Great Wizard, 5 minutes into the movie, misses the point a bit. It's all Meh bro, life isn't that complicated. Your indifference and nonchalantness isn't all that earth shattering, in fact Microsoft and IBM used to say "they only represent less than 3% of all computer users..." too. How is that indifference working out for them?
    So Apple is now a martyr for saving the credit card industry? My credit card is a next to nothing part of my life. I charge things on it, pay it off when due and don't think twice about it. This is not what made Apple great.
    LOL You sir are not the average consumer. Congrats on WINNING! Apple isn't a martyr. They won't die because of this. They will however, usher in a changed ecosystem that never existed before. They will usher in a new and easier way for the "average consumer" to interact with their finances. Bro clearly this isn't a big deal to you. However, your incredible money skillz aren't who this is for. This is for the average user. This is for the masses. This just took your "I'm winning at life cuz I can finance..." and made it easier for the average user to win. GAME CHANGER. Your once venerable DOS Command Line user skillz have just been fossilized. Welcome to irrelevance. 
    So it's for people who buy stuff they don't need, with money they don't have to impress people they don't like (to quote Dave Ramsey). In other words, imbeciles.
    The worst kind of imbecile is one who does not understand the opportunity cost of using one’s capital.

    When someone says “I never take on debt,” they simply have no clue how they could have invested their capital to earn a higher rate of return, and therefore how, by avoiding debt, they’re incurring an opportunity cost. 

    I recommend some Econ 101. 
    And you're forgetting about risk. Why doesn't everyone remortgage their paid off house and invest the money? I recommend some high school econ.
    Too bad that the autarkic barter economy doesn't exist in your primitive financial world...
    My financial world may be primitive, but it's gained me several million dollars and I sleep like a baby at night. I don't worry about margin calls, or not being able to pay my debts. To me that's worth a lot.
    Anyone who buys stock on margin is, indeed, an imbecile -- most brokerages charge personal investors 6%-7%. But that's not what you've been talking about. You've been berating people for borrowing mortgage debt at 4.5% (pre-tax), which makes no sense (given your supposed financial savvy).

    Moreover, your arrogance is laid bare by the stupid comment that you "sleep like a baby at night." Does it occur to you that is for exactly the same reason that, some people who may not have the ability make ends meet during the last week of the month might decide to not pay off 100% of their cc charges by the end of the month? 

    Or, is sleep only for arrogant internet twits like you?
    I never berated anyone for taking out a reasonable mortgage loan and paying it off as fast as you can. I said many times before that this is the only acceptable loan to take out and only because it is for an asset that you live in and increases in value. I berated people for using credit card debt as a way to finance a life style they cannot afford. Cry me a river if you can't budget your money and save an emergency fund.

    But, I'm an arrogant internet twit for being fiscally responsible that lives well below my means and never goes into consumer debt. I'm happily a twit then.
  • Reply 235 of 279
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,056member
    eightzero said:

    Plus the Variable APRs range from 13.24% to 24.24% based on creditworthiness. Rates as of March 2019.” What a crock of shit this “low interest rates” line is. Those interest rates are usury, right in line with the rest of the credit card industry. 24% interest ought to be criminal, and 13% is not “low”.
    Hum. Interesting. This is a direct quote from DaringFireball. That you, John?
    No I took the last part from him because he’s right. 
    And didn't attribute it to him. Nice. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 236 of 279
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,056member
    sflocal said:
    6502 said:
    I pay cash for all my cars. And, I sleep like a baby at night knowing I don't owe anyone a nickel. The borrower is slave to the lender. You are criticizing me for being fiscally sound? LOL. If you enjoy paying fees and interest be my guest. I know I'll never be sued for not being able to pay on a load I don't have.
    Well that's just good for you.  Paying cash when you can use someone else's money is not sound planning as far as I'm concerned.  I bought my car a couple years ago with 0% financing.  I had the cash, but why take my $50K out of the market when I can keep it working for me?

    The money I made on that $50K over the two years resulted in a significant "discount" on my car when I paid it off 8 months ago.  
    To be fair though, most people don't have the opportunity to use other people's money like you did.  They have to let other people use their money.  And while I enjoy being able to pay cash for most things, there are times when it's just not advisable to do so.

    It's not always best to pay cash, but it's usually better.
    If you have a credit card, by definition, you are using someone else's money for a period of time. The rewards stuff is a model where those with the money are willing to share the swipe fees they get from a merchant with the debtor. And of course the long bet is that that the debtor will then be willing to pay for longer term use of that money.

    I have not paid cash for any purchase in many, many years. I use other people's cash (the reward credit cards) and am rewarded for doing so to the tune of > $1000 year. 
    cgWerks
  • Reply 237 of 279
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    I'm wondering how much of this card is Apple and how much of it is Goldman?
    ...  Is it just a store card (like Macy's) issued by a bank but under the name of store (Apple)?
    ...  How much of my data does Goldman see?
    ... If there is a problem -- say an unautorized charge or payment not recorded -- does an Apple employee deal with it or Goldman?
    cgWerks
  • Reply 238 of 279
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,056member
    6502 said:

    6502 said:
    6502 said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    Apple the most disruptive corporate force in entrenched business practices. They shook the Computer Industry to its core and changed the way people interacted with computers. They did this by changing the basic philosophy and premise of computing. They personalized it. Game Changer. They did it with music, how it was distributed, how it was carried, how it was consumed. Game Changer. Now they are bring that same disruptive force to the financial industry. Credit Cards have been pretty pedestrian for decades. They have been entirely industry (financial industry driven) as a result the ways they have tried to interact with their consumers have been more and more driven by their self interest with little concern for the consumer experience. AppleCard... Game Changer.

    Does it break the mold for rewards? Nope. Does it break the mold for cost? Nope. Does it break the mold for all things reward driven Credit Card? Nope. It just thinks different and delivers a better consumer experience in delivering it. Apple just Apple-ized Consumer Credit. 10 years from now we will all look back and say "of course making it easier for Credit Approval should be this easy. Of course all of the things that AppleCard just delivered to consumer finance should have been implemented." Except Chase, Bank of America, Well Fargo, and a myriad of other Financial Industry Titans could have done it but didn't. They had to have the foundation of their business model moved beneath them by Apple.

    Troll away with, how "Meh, my card does all that already. Big Deal! Why are Apple fanbois such tewls?", indifference. DOS command line users used to LOVE how easy it was to do things too. Now we all just do things differently. We all just do things differently, more intuitively, and simply, since Apple decided to innovate the processes.
    If you think the Apple Card is a game changer, you've set a very low bar.
    And your indifference to the shift will be looked at as part of the problem that Apple just solved for an industry it didn't NEED to be involved in. Apple doesn't make moves and involve itself in things if it doesn't feel like it can make a significant (read profitable) change in a significant way. This big dog doesn't get off the porch unless there is a need. You staring at the enormity of the dog and saying " psssshhht! I've seen bigger dogs" Misses the point a little. You pulling the curtain back and pointing to the Great Wizard, 5 minutes into the movie, misses the point a bit. It's all Meh bro, life isn't that complicated. Your indifference and nonchalantness isn't all that earth shattering, in fact Microsoft and IBM used to say "they only represent less than 3% of all computer users..." too. How is that indifference working out for them?
    So Apple is now a martyr for saving the credit card industry? My credit card is a next to nothing part of my life. I charge things on it, pay it off when due and don't think twice about it. This is not what made Apple great.
    LOL You sir are not the average consumer. Congrats on WINNING! Apple isn't a martyr. They won't die because of this. They will however, usher in a changed ecosystem that never existed before. They will usher in a new and easier way for the "average consumer" to interact with their finances. Bro clearly this isn't a big deal to you. However, your incredible money skillz aren't who this is for. This is for the average user. This is for the masses. This just took your "I'm winning at life cuz I can finance..." and made it easier for the average user to win. GAME CHANGER. Your once venerable DOS Command Line user skillz have just been fossilized. Welcome to irrelevance. 
    So it's for people who buy stuff they don't need, with money they don't have to impress people they don't like (to quote Dave Ramsey). In other words, imbeciles.
    The worst kind of imbecile is one who does not understand the opportunity cost of using one’s capital.

    When someone says “I never take on debt,” they simply have no clue how they could have invested their capital to earn a higher rate of return, and therefore how, by avoiding debt, they’re incurring an opportunity cost. 

    I recommend some Econ 101. 
    And you're forgetting about risk. Why doesn't everyone remortgage their paid off house and invest the money? I recommend some high school econ.
    Too bad that the autarkic barter economy doesn't exist in your primitive financial world...
    My financial world may be primitive, but it's gained me several million dollars and I sleep like a baby at night. I don't worry about margin calls, or not being able to pay my debts. To me that's worth a lot.
    Anyone who buys stock on margin is, indeed, an imbecile -- most brokerages charge personal investors 6%-7%. But that's not what you've been talking about. You've been berating people for borrowing mortgage debt at 4.5% (pre-tax), which makes no sense (given your supposed financial savvy).

    Moreover, your arrogance is laid bare by the stupid comment that you "sleep like a baby at night." Does it occur to you that is for exactly the same reason that, some people who may not have the ability make ends meet during the last week of the month might decide to not pay off 100% of their cc charges by the end of the month? 

    Or, is sleep only for arrogant internet twits like you?
    I never berated anyone for taking out a reasonable mortgage loan and paying it off as fast as you can. I said many times before that this is the only acceptable loan to take out and only because it is for an asset that you live in and increases in value. I berated people for using credit card debt as a way to finance a life style they cannot afford. Cry me a river if you can't budget your money and save an emergency fund.

    But, I'm an arrogant internet twit for being fiscally responsible that lives well below my means and never goes into consumer debt. I'm happily a twit then.
    Ya know...the concept of fiscal management and fiscal responsibility is something that really isn't taught well. Lack of knowledge is hardly a floggable offense, but it seems like maybe...maybe...we could be teaching this kind of thing better. I don't know...maybe in like schools and stuff? But then, we sorta of can't seem to embrace simple cause and effect either, so maybe this is a fools errand. 
    cgWerksGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 239 of 279
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Still not clear how the Daily Cash thing works. If a person were to make a large purchase using the Apple Card, say an appliance or a car or boat, and the Daily Cash were sent to their account.... then what happens if the person were to return the item for a refund? Would the Apple Cash show up as a deficit on their account?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 240 of 279
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    6502 said:


    6502 said:
    6502 said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    6502 said:
    ElJeffe said:
    Apple the most disruptive corporate force in entrenched business practices. They shook the Computer Industry to its core and changed the way people interacted with computers. They did this by changing the basic philosophy and premise of computing. They personalized it. Game Changer. They did it with music, how it was distributed, how it was carried, how it was consumed. Game Changer. Now they are bring that same disruptive force to the financial industry. Credit Cards have been pretty pedestrian for decades. They have been entirely industry (financial industry driven) as a result the ways they have tried to interact with their consumers have been more and more driven by their self interest with little concern for the consumer experience. AppleCard... Game Changer.

    Does it break the mold for rewards? Nope. Does it break the mold for cost? Nope. Does it break the mold for all things reward driven Credit Card? Nope. It just thinks different and delivers a better consumer experience in delivering it. Apple just Apple-ized Consumer Credit. 10 years from now we will all look back and say "of course making it easier for Credit Approval should be this easy. Of course all of the things that AppleCard just delivered to consumer finance should have been implemented." Except Chase, Bank of America, Well Fargo, and a myriad of other Financial Industry Titans could have done it but didn't. They had to have the foundation of their business model moved beneath them by Apple.

    Troll away with, how "Meh, my card does all that already. Big Deal! Why are Apple fanbois such tewls?", indifference. DOS command line users used to LOVE how easy it was to do things too. Now we all just do things differently. We all just do things differently, more intuitively, and simply, since Apple decided to innovate the processes.
    If you think the Apple Card is a game changer, you've set a very low bar.
    And your indifference to the shift will be looked at as part of the problem that Apple just solved for an industry it didn't NEED to be involved in. Apple doesn't make moves and involve itself in things if it doesn't feel like it can make a significant (read profitable) change in a significant way. This big dog doesn't get off the porch unless there is a need. You staring at the enormity of the dog and saying " psssshhht! I've seen bigger dogs" Misses the point a little. You pulling the curtain back and pointing to the Great Wizard, 5 minutes into the movie, misses the point a bit. It's all Meh bro, life isn't that complicated. Your indifference and nonchalantness isn't all that earth shattering, in fact Microsoft and IBM used to say "they only represent less than 3% of all computer users..." too. How is that indifference working out for them?
    So Apple is now a martyr for saving the credit card industry? My credit card is a next to nothing part of my life. I charge things on it, pay it off when due and don't think twice about it. This is not what made Apple great.
    LOL You sir are not the average consumer. Congrats on WINNING! Apple isn't a martyr. They won't die because of this. They will however, usher in a changed ecosystem that never existed before. They will usher in a new and easier way for the "average consumer" to interact with their finances. Bro clearly this isn't a big deal to you. However, your incredible money skillz aren't who this is for. This is for the average user. This is for the masses. This just took your "I'm winning at life cuz I can finance..." and made it easier for the average user to win. GAME CHANGER. Your once venerable DOS Command Line user skillz have just been fossilized. Welcome to irrelevance. 
    So it's for people who buy stuff they don't need, with money they don't have to impress people they don't like (to quote Dave Ramsey). In other words, imbeciles.
    The worst kind of imbecile is one who does not understand the opportunity cost of using one’s capital.

    When someone says “I never take on debt,” they simply have no clue how they could have invested their capital to earn a higher rate of return, and therefore how, by avoiding debt, they’re incurring an opportunity cost. 

    I recommend some Econ 101. 
    And you're forgetting about risk. Why doesn't everyone remortgage their paid off house and invest the money? I recommend some high school econ.
    Too bad that the autarkic barter economy doesn't exist in your primitive financial world...
    My financial world may be primitive, but it's gained me several million dollars and I sleep like a baby at night. I don't worry about margin calls, or not being able to pay my debts. To me that's worth a lot.
    Anyone who buys stock on margin is, indeed, an imbecile -- most brokerages charge personal investors 6%-7%. But that's not what you've been talking about. You've been berating people for borrowing mortgage debt at 4.5% (pre-tax), which makes no sense (given your supposed financial savvy).

    Moreover, your arrogance is laid bare by the stupid comment that you "sleep like a baby at night." Does it occur to you that is for exactly the same reason that, some people who may not have the ability make ends meet during the last week of the month might decide to not pay off 100% of their cc charges by the end of the month? 

    Or, is sleep only for arrogant internet twits like you?
    I never berated anyone for taking out a reasonable mortgage loan and paying it off as fast as you can. I said many times before that this is the only acceptable loan to take out and only because it is for an asset that you live in and increases in value. I berated people for using credit card debt as a way to finance a life style they cannot afford. Cry me a river if you can't budget your money and save an emergency fund.

    But, I'm an arrogant internet twit for being fiscally responsible that lives well below my means and never goes into consumer debt. I'm happily a twit then.
    Well, to be fair, car loans too.
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