Editorial: Could Apple's lock on premium luxury be eclipsed by an era of good-enough gear?...

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  • Reply 101 of 148
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,450member
    danvm said:
    Johan42 said:
    Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.
    You’re high. Apple devices have the longest lifespan in the business — both in official support terms (iOS), and in real world useful lifespan. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. I have an iphone 4s that was used as a primary device by a family member until a year or two ago and now is a backup device. What other brand has the same support and lifespan longevity? 
    My Lenovo Thinkpad T60P laptop is over 12 years old and runs like it was new -- but with a modern OS and I'm thinking swapping its main harddrive for an SSD.  How does Apple have the "longest lifespan" ?
    Same here buddy. My MacBook is from late 2008. It is 11 years old, running smoothly , and it does so looking 5 times better than your machine.
    The difference is that the good looking machine is running an old OS X 10.11 while the ugly one is capable of running the latest version of Windows 10.  Following the original post about longest lifespan, the ugly one is ahead considering it's running a modern OS.  Still, both devices are to old for modern applications.  
    Ever heard of dosdude1? My 2009 Mac runs macOS 10.14 just fine.
    Its probable that the 2008 Mac is similar capable.
    edited April 22 radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 102 of 148
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,180member
    knowitall said:
    danvm said:
    Johan42 said:
    Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.
    You’re high. Apple devices have the longest lifespan in the business — both in official support terms (iOS), and in real world useful lifespan. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. I have an iphone 4s that was used as a primary device by a family member until a year or two ago and now is a backup device. What other brand has the same support and lifespan longevity? 
    My Lenovo Thinkpad T60P laptop is over 12 years old and runs like it was new -- but with a modern OS and I'm thinking swapping its main harddrive for an SSD.  How does Apple have the "longest lifespan" ?
    Same here buddy. My MacBook is from late 2008. It is 11 years old, running smoothly , and it does so looking 5 times better than your machine.
    The difference is that the good looking machine is running an old OS X 10.11 while the ugly one is capable of running the latest version of Windows 10.  Following the original post about longest lifespan, the ugly one is ahead considering it's running a modern OS.  Still, both devices are to old for modern applications.  
    Ever heard of dosdude1? My 2009 Mac runs macOS 10.14 just fine.
    Its probable that the 2008 Mac is similar capable.
    Thanks for the heads up. I hadn't heard of it. It might come in handy some day.
  • Reply 103 of 148
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,095member
    danvm said:
    danvm said:
    bb-15 said:
    Imagine a company looking through your mail, tracking where you go & what you buy to send advertising to you. In the past that would have been intolerable.   
    But that is what Google does. It mines data on its apps, ties it to the user and uses that data to send individualized ads to the customer. 
    This is how Google makes most of its money. 

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/020515/business-google.asp ;

    https://bgr.com/2016/02/11/why-facebook-and-google-mine-your-data-and-why-theres-nothing-you-can-do-to-stop-it/ ;

    I minimize that kind of data tracking as much as possible & part of how I do that is to carefully use Apple products to reduce data tracking for ads.
    In addition, Apple has top notch customer service & devices which have OS support/updates for many years.  
    The Apple ecosystem works well across its devices. 
    Apple products by & large are simple to use & yet are very powerful. 

    For all those things which benefit me, I’m willing to pay a reasonable amount more. 

     
    I suppose Google cannot be as bad as you said, considering Apple agreed to accept billions of dollars from Google to make their search engine default in iOS and macOS devices, right?
    Oops, you forgot what Tom Cook said on that very issue.  iOS/Safari has controls that limit the data even Google can collect.  
    Oops, I remember Cook answer in the interview,
    “Look at what we’ve done with the controls we’ve built in,” Cook said. “We have private web browsing. We have an intelligent tracker prevention. What we’ve tried to do is come up with ways to help our users through their course of the day.  It’s not a perfect thing. I’d be the very first person to say that. But it goes a long way to helping,”   

    Could it be that the "no so perfect thing" is the enough information Google need from Apple customers to pay billions of dollars per year?  Taking that aside, way is Apple, who praises their privacy POV make business and accept money of one of the worst companies in business privacy-wise, and makes them the default search engine for their users?  Does it makes sense to you? 
    Oops, you forgot to included the key point...

    In a recent interview on Axios on HBO, Tim Cook opened up about this issue. When it comes to default search engines, it’s all about the merit.

    “I think their search engine is the best,” Cook said. And as far as the privacy issues are concerned, Tim feels confident that Apple is doing enough with Safari to stop Google from tracking Apple users.

    “Look at what we’ve done with the controls we’ve built in. We have private web browsing. We have an intelligent tracker prevention. What we’ve tried to do is come up with ways to help our users through their course of the day. It’s not a perfect thing. I’d be the very first person to say that. But it goes a long way to helping.”

    Here, Tim is talking about tracking prevention software that is enabled by default in Safari. It stops websites from saving cookies on the device. This means that Google or Facebook don’t have access to your entire history and can’t track you as you browse the web.

    I thought it stopped saving cookies for longer than 3 days. Saving cookies still allowed for 72 hours IIRC and I could absolutely be mistaken on that. Maybe it was 48, but you seem to remember "at all". You might look into it and confirm the facts for the rest of us. 

    Somehow Google must be making far more from your iOS browsing than they're paying Apple for the privilege of being the default search engine. Several times over would be normal. 
    edited April 22 avon b7ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 104 of 148
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,135member
    ILoveTech said:
    To all those talking about "Good Enough", "Privacy", "Security" etc:

    Good Enough doesn't necessarily mean it is cheap. Someone buying an Android doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have money to buy an iPhone. It is calculative decision. Whether iPhone is worth it over Android?

    Okay, let's come to Privacy...

    Just to remind you all. Apple may not be collecting or selling your data. But, Apple tied up with Goldman Sachs for Apple Card. And if you don't know, your financial data is lot more crucial then your pictures with your GF in your Photos app. Don't believe me? Read this.... https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-card-three-fatal-flaws-that-hinder-usability-and-then-theres-goldman-sachs/

    Coming to PC and Laptop. I don't use Windows, and also Mac. I use Ubuntu. And let me tell you my 10 year old Lenovo Laptop with 1st Gen i3 can outperform Macbook Pro with i5 with same age. I have a MBP 2011 and had to upgrade RAM to 10GB to open three tabs in the brower.

    And before you come up with some rubbish data, just know that I have been in to tech industry for more than a decade. Working around making softwares and hardware. Better come up with strong arguments.

    Extract from ZDNET, if you didn't read:

    And then there's Goldman Sachs

    And then, finally, there's Goldman Sachs. In Apple's keynote, the company implied that your financial transactions will be secure because it's all being managed by Goldman Sachs.
    march-event-2019-apple-youtube-2019-04-02-16-35-19.jpg

    But let's not forget: Goldman Sachs was instrumental in causing the financial crisis of 2007-2008. The company not only received the largest TARP bailout of any firm (which they did repay), but then went on to pay out billions of dollars in executive bonuses.

    This is the same Goldman Sachs that had nearly 1,000 subsidiaries functioning as offshore tax havens to avoid taxes and that helped Greece hide its debt, fostering the European sovereign debt crisis.

    This is the same Goldman Sachs that has a history of executives prosecuted for insider trading, that pushed the housing crisis over the edge with junk mortgage speculation, that was then charged with securities fraud by the SEC.

    This is the same Goldman Sachs that was fined millions by the SEC for improper securities lending practices, that has been the subject of criminal charges by the nation of Malaysia for misappropriating billions of dollars from the proceeds of bond sales, and that has been fined millions of dollars by the UK Financial Conduct Authority.

    That Goldman Sachs.

    So, yeah, when Apple VP of Internet Services Jennifer Bailey says "Goldman Sachs will never share or sell your data to third parties for marketing," I sure feel secure. Don't you?

    That's Apple Card. It's got some good ideas. It's got a bunch of fatal flaws. Maybe, in a few years, it will be more compelling. But right now, it's not going to be universally usable, and it's tied to Goldman Sachs. That Goldman Sachs.



    Yes, those are all good, legitimate points -- true and truly spoken -- no spin.

    But, at the same time, what other firm would you have preferred Apple go with instead of Goldman Sachs?   In terms of the Great Recession, they were pretty much all culpable and I don't know any bankster that I would trust -- particularly without a lot of regulation and oversight.

    Unfortunately, because of those same regulations, Apple was forced to pick one because they are not licensed to operate as a consumer bank.  Did they pick the rotten apple out of the barrel?  Or, were all the apples rotten?
  • Reply 105 of 148
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,135member
    jcs2305 said:
    Johan42 said:
    Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.
    You’re high. Apple devices have the longest lifespan in the business — both in official support terms (iOS), and in real world useful lifespan. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. I have an iphone 4s that was used as a primary device by a family member until a year or two ago and now is a backup device. What other brand has the same support and lifespan longevity? 
    My Lenovo Thinkpad T60P laptop is over 12 years old and runs like it was new -- but with a modern OS and I'm thinking swapping its main harddrive for an SSD.  How does Apple have the "longest lifespan" ?
    I thought the OP said Apple devices, not laptops specifically when referring to the longest lifespan in the business. Most of the planned obsolescence claims I have seen refer to iPhones and not Apple,s other hardware. You have to admit more folks are using older Mac laptops than they are 12 year old Thinkpads. 

    So yes a non Mac can have a long service life but it isn’t as likely in my opinion. My two macs at home are both late 2011 ( Mini & Air ) and they both ares still running strong. This is possible, but not typical for windows machines of the same age in my experience. Just my 2c ... 
    Huh?   You compare a 2011 machine to a 2006 machine to say it's service life is as long?    Let's talk in another 5 years.

    But, again, I am not trashing the Macs.   Merely contesting the statement that Macs have the longest service life of all.  They do if you compare them to crappy HPs, but not other, high end, well made machines.
    A look at the second hand markets will disprove you. It is well known that the Macs have better second hand value because they last longer. A PC too may last even longer than a Mac provided that you can live with continuous DIY tinkering. At these fringe cases the issue becomes more of a sentimental one than a technical one. We cannot come to a conclusion by continuously autopsying dead models, we just have to respect people’s sentimental ties with their legacy investments. Meanwhile I have a gut feeling that the trend is towards a shortened lifecycle regardless of the model or brand: as long as the processors become more powerful the Heat emerges everywhere and controlling the heat becomes the first and foremost engineering task. “Cold” devices are the mainstream practical solution (smartphones, tablets) and for “hot” devices designing to dismiss the heat first (thinner, lighter) is the starting point in this war against Physics.
    Yes, you are correct.   Macs do have higher resale values than PCs -- even high end ones like Thinkpads.
    But, that is not due to the hardware.   It is due to OS, software and Apple Ecosystem (which is the main reason why Macs cost more to begin with).   But, that doesn't mean that the hardware is any better or lasts any longer -- and particularly with Apple's increasing move to non-repairable & non-upgreadeable hardware that is more true than ever. 

    But, even with the Apple OS, what happens when Apple no longer supports it  And, Apple drops support long before Microsoft does and, even if they were the same, you can almost always upgrade the Microsoft OS to the latest version.  The truth is:   A "T series" Thinkpad is simply more sturdy, more easily repaired if needed and more easily upgraded (both hardware and software wise) than any Mac (particularly the newer ones) and that provides them with the potential for longer life.

    Added:   As for heat:   The Lenovo "T Series" Thinkpads have robust, well designed cooling -- unlike the thin, light minimalist MacBooks.   So, heat is much less of an issue.
    edited April 22 muthuk_vanalingamelijahg
  • Reply 106 of 148
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,904member
    jcs2305 said:
    Johan42 said:
    Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.
    You’re high. Apple devices have the longest lifespan in the business — both in official support terms (iOS), and in real world useful lifespan. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. I have an iphone 4s that was used as a primary device by a family member until a year or two ago and now is a backup device. What other brand has the same support and lifespan longevity? 
    My Lenovo Thinkpad T60P laptop is over 12 years old and runs like it was new -- but with a modern OS and I'm thinking swapping its main harddrive for an SSD.  How does Apple have the "longest lifespan" ?
    I thought the OP said Apple devices, not laptops specifically when referring to the longest lifespan in the business. Most of the planned obsolescence claims I have seen refer to iPhones and not Apple,s other hardware. You have to admit more folks are using older Mac laptops than they are 12 year old Thinkpads. 

    So yes a non Mac can have a long service life but it isn’t as likely in my opinion. My two macs at home are both late 2011 ( Mini & Air ) and they both ares still running strong. This is possible, but not typical for windows machines of the same age in my experience. Just my 2c ... 
    Huh?   You compare a 2011 machine to a 2006 machine to say it's service life is as long?    Let's talk in another 5 years.

    But, again, I am not trashing the Macs.   Merely contesting the statement that Macs have the longest service life of all.  They do if you compare them to crappy HPs, but not other, high end, well made machines.
    A look at the second hand markets will disprove you. It is well known that the Macs have better second hand value because they last longer. A PC too may last even longer than a Mac provided that you can live with continuous DIY tinkering. At these fringe cases the issue becomes more of a sentimental one than a technical one. We cannot come to a conclusion by continuously autopsying dead models, we just have to respect people’s sentimental ties with their legacy investments. Meanwhile I have a gut feeling that the trend is towards a shortened lifecycle regardless of the model or brand: as long as the processors become more powerful the Heat emerges everywhere and controlling the heat becomes the first and foremost engineering task. “Cold” devices are the mainstream practical solution (smartphones, tablets) and for “hot” devices designing to dismiss the heat first (thinner, lighter) is the starting point in this war against Physics.
    Yes, you are correct.   Macs do have higher resale values than PCs -- even high end ones like Thinkpads.
    But, that is not due to the hardware.   It is due to OS, software and Apple Ecosystem (which is the main reason why Macs cost more to begin with).   But, that doesn't mean that the hardware is any better or lasts any longer -- and particularly with Apple's increasing move to non-repairable & non-upgreadeable hardware that is more true than ever. 

    But, even with the Apple OS, what happens when Apple no longer supports it  And, Apple drops support long before Microsoft does and, even if they were the same, you can almost always upgrade the Microsoft OS to the latest version.  The truth is:   A "T series" Thinkpad is simply more sturdy, more easily repaired if needed and more easily upgraded (both hardware and software wise) than any Mac (particularly the newer ones) and that provides them with the potential for longer life.

    Added:   As for heat:   The Lenovo "T Series" Thinkpads have robust, well designed cooling -- unlike the thin, light minimalist MacBooks.   So, heat is much less of an issue.
    Yes, those damn thin, minimalist MacBooks have the worst cooling ever: NONE...  B) 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 107 of 148
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,540member
    Johan42 said:
    Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.
    You’re high. Apple devices have the longest lifespan in the business — both in official support terms (iOS), and in real world useful lifespan. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. I have an iphone 4s that was used as a primary device by a family member until a year or two ago and now is a backup device. What other brand has the same support and lifespan longevity? 
    My Lenovo Thinkpad T60P laptop is over 12 years old and runs like it was new -- but with a modern OS and I'm thinking swapping its main harddrive for an SSD.  How does Apple have the "longest lifespan" ?
    Apple devices have the longest useful lifespan (and as documented by IBM and others, lower TCO). As I said, iOS is supported longer than the android knockoffs, even the flagships, and in general get longer use due to higher build quality and better OS. 

    I'm happy for you that your laptop is still working, but most Windows PCs can't make such a claim.
    edited April 22 watto_cobra
  • Reply 108 of 148
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,540member

    Good article. “Good enough” will always be popular with the budget crowd, which uses price as the primary purchase consideration. Affordable luxury brands like Apple will continue to do fine with those who do not select based on price alone, and consider the value derived from better built systems and devices. 

    This is fine. There will always be both, likely in any product category from smartphones to hammers. Tho only in this product category will we see the price people creating accounts and posts to spin the narrative of decreasing sales to somehow imply their knockoff brands are “winning”. 
    I'm not at all sure that "good enough" is only popular with the "Budget Crowd". 
    No responsible person should want to pay more for something they don't need or want.
    ...  Although I could afford a Rolls, Bentley or Porsche, I'm happy with my Honda.  It serves my needs well.

    In the case of laptops or smart phones, why would a person who sits at a table and  browses the internet or checks email or facebook need or want an expensive, high powered, high end product?  In the case of laptops, a $2,000 laptop would simply be a waste of money.
    If you drive a Honda I doubt whether you were ever in the market for a Rolls Royce. Please. Being able to get the money together for one isn't the same as being in the market for it.

    Regardless, none of which you said counters what I said -- "good enough will always be popular with the budget crowd". Note that this doesn't mean ONLY with the budget crowd, but that it will ALWAYS be popular with the budget crowd. See the difference there? Yeah, I do. 


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 109 of 148
    kruegdudekruegdude Posts: 340member
    Good article. “Good enough” will always be popular with the budget crowd, which uses price as the primary purchase consideration. Affordable luxury brands like Apple will continue to do fine with those who do not select based on price alone, and consider the value derived from better built systems and devices. 

    This is fine. There will always be both, likely in any product category from smartphones to hammers. Tho only in this product category will we see the price people creating accounts and posts to spin the narrative of decreasing sales to somehow imply their knockoff brands are “winning”. 
    Categorizing people into a single group and making sweeping statements of their habits doesn’t portray reality I know many members of the budget crowd and they own iPhones. I also know people that don’t care about the cost and could readily own an iPhone that have androids.
    avon b7muthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMacchemengingatorguyelijahg
  • Reply 110 of 148
    kruegdudekruegdude Posts: 340member
    macxpress said:
    Johan42 said:
    Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.
    Honestly, do you ever have anything good to say about Apple or are you just here to piss all over everything Apple does? Seriously! If you don't like Apple products and services then just go somewhere's else. 
    It’s one of their few joys in life. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 111 of 148
    kruegdudekruegdude Posts: 340member
    An era of good enough? HA! Take a look at gamer PCs and laptops. They are a complete rebellion against Apple's sleek minimalist designs with their glass sides, over use of RGB LEDs pulsing colors all over their craggy innards. They are fully customizable so every gamer can have their own unique system. Despite all the gaudiness and customizability they are quite affordable compared to Macs. They are also fast as hell and can outperform even the most expensive Macs especially when it comes to GPU workloads. Speaking of which, did you know that a 2080ti GPU is about 1000 times faster than a typical Mac Intel CPU when ray tracing? Come on Apple. That has to sting a little.
    Sad if your whole point was “that has to sting a little”.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 112 of 148
    kruegdudekruegdude Posts: 340member
    In the beginning Android was crap.  It’s good enough now, to give Android devices a look.  I remain concerned about the security of the Google Play Store, but I’m not a kid that downloads a bunch of junk. So, it’s less important...

    The iPhone and IPad don’t have me in an “ecosystem lock” but if I owned an Apple Watch the convenience factor would be compelling.  I don’t like watches... 

    I’m watching what Microsoft does with Android/Linux.  If they get better integration than what’s offered on Apple, that might move the needle...
    “I’m watching what the Titanic is doing with their lifeboats...”
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 113 of 148
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,257member
    Last year I acquired an AirPort Extreme (4th gen from 2010 and 802.11n) and an AirPort Express (original styling and 802.11g) after I replaced them in the extended network setup with a modern, mesh network from Eero. Yesterday I was able to use that AirPort Extreme in someone's home to replace the wireless router they were being charged for monthly by their ISP—it was separate from the cable modem, so switching out and returning won't be an issue.

    Despite their ISP supplied Sagemcom router being 802.11ac the decade old AirPort Extreme didn't bottleneck their local network. In fact, it's technically a little faster in booting, connected devices faster, has easier setup, looks nicer, and slightly better performance on the repeated speed tests that I performed before and after setup.

    So if Apple is somehow causing devices to be obsolete simply because they come out with a newer model of a device then they're really doing a bad job of it.
    muthuk_vanalingampscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 114 of 148
    kruegdudekruegdude Posts: 340member
    danvm said:
    Johan42 said:
    Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.
    You’re high. Apple devices have the longest lifespan in the business — both in official support terms (iOS), and in real world useful lifespan. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. I have an iphone 4s that was used as a primary device by a family member until a year or two ago and now is a backup device. What other brand has the same support and lifespan longevity? 
    My Lenovo Thinkpad T60P laptop is over 12 years old and runs like it was new -- but with a modern OS and I'm thinking swapping its main harddrive for an SSD.  How does Apple have the "longest lifespan" ?
    Same here buddy. My MacBook is from late 2008. It is 11 years old, running smoothly , and it does so looking 5 times better than your machine.
    The difference is that the good looking machine is running an old OS X 10.11 while the ugly one is capable of running the latest version of Windows 10.  Following the original post about longest lifespan, the ugly one is ahead considering it's running a modern OS.  Still, both devices are to old for modern applications.  
    You lost the argument when you said “Windows”.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 115 of 148
    kruegdudekruegdude Posts: 340member
    elijahg said:
    Most people do seem to prefer iOS - certainly my friend group does, I have plenty of friends who are on Android and would like an iPhone, but complain it's simply too expensive. Several have switched away from iOS to Android in the past few years. One friend got a £300 Android phone at the same time I got a 6s, in 2015. It had a 5000mAh battery that lasted for days. He had it for three years and got a replacement last year. The camera in the new one stomps all over the £800 iPhone 8 that was out two years ago, and as well as my 6s's one. So that's just £250 for three years, then he got a new one last year for £250 with all the tech advancements that the 8 doesn't have. That's £500 for 4 years (assuming a hand-me-down after, rather than an eBay sale and not taking into account how long this new one will last). My 4 year old iPhone 6s is now feeling pretty creaky, and was £699 when new. I could have had two new Android phones in the time that I've had my 6s, spent £200 less, would have had a camera that far surpasses the one in my 6s, and wouldn't have had to fork out £90 for a new battery 2 years in. 

    An iPhone may last longer (as long as you don't drop/damage it), but is the extra year or two over an Android phone really worth it? I think the OS is good enough that it is worth that premium, but more and more people feel Apple is ripping them off. I got a new Apple Watch 4 a few days ago, and was annoyed to see Apple has chopped the charging puck cable length from 2 meters to just 0.75m. So now I have to rearrange the power supply or fork out for a USB extension cable to keep the same setup I have. Another example of Apple nickel and diming again.
    “The camera on the new one stomps all over the iPhone 8”? You know that saying something doesn’t make it true, right?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 116 of 148
    kruegdudekruegdude Posts: 340member
    elijahg said:
    Johan42 said:
    Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.
    You’re high. Apple devices have the longest lifespan in the business — both in official support terms (iOS), and in real world useful lifespan. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. I have an iphone 4s that was used as a primary device by a family member until a year or two ago and now is a backup device. What other brand has the same support and lifespan longevity? 
    My Lenovo Thinkpad T60P laptop is over 12 years old and runs like it was new -- but with a modern OS and I'm thinking swapping its main harddrive for an SSD.  How does Apple have the "longest lifespan" ?
    Same here buddy. My MacBook is from late 2008. It is 11 years old, running smoothly , and it does so looking 5 times better than your machine.
    How well are all those security updates installing for you?
    You’re touting Microsoft’s security updates? Really? They people that made possible a billion dollar virus scanning ecosystem possible? 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 117 of 148
    kruegdudekruegdude Posts: 340member
    mike54 said:
    I've already jumped ship. With a Dell Windows 10 laptop, I can get a 17in matte screen, easy user replaceable ram and storage, dedicated GPU, and better reliability, at less than half the price of an Apple 15in laptop. I still prefer macOS, but Apple has cared less for macOS, which is clearly obvious.

    Apple is releasing new products, with old designs and a mixture of old and new parts so they can keep their costs down but keep the prices high and even increasing them. Hell, they are even still selling the mouse with the charging plug on the bottom! Apple is not making the best products they can anymore. The focus has shifted to increasing shareholder returns and growing profitability, and they see services and subscriptions as the future.
    Yet you keep coming back tot he Apple forums. Is this your quality time?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 118 of 148
    danvmdanvm Posts: 791member
    Johan42 said:
    Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.
    You’re high. Apple devices have the longest lifespan in the business — both in official support terms (iOS), and in real world useful lifespan. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. I have an iphone 4s that was used as a primary device by a family member until a year or two ago and now is a backup device. What other brand has the same support and lifespan longevity? 
    My Lenovo Thinkpad T60P laptop is over 12 years old and runs like it was new -- but with a modern OS and I'm thinking swapping its main harddrive for an SSD.  How does Apple have the "longest lifespan" ?
    Apple devices have the longest useful lifespan (and as documented by IBM and others, lower TCO). As I said, iOS is supported longer than the android knockoffs, even the flagships, and in general get longer use due to higher build quality and better OS. 

    I'm happy for you that your laptop is still working, but most Windows PCs can't make such a claim.
    What you said it's true, considering most PC's sold are low cost models.  As soon as you enter business and high end models, it's a different story.  Thinkpads, HP Elitebooks and Z-Workstations, as well as other PC's in this price range have a very long life span, as good, or even better than Apple device.  
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 119 of 148
    lmaclmac Posts: 195member
    The problem isn't that Apple is held to a higher standard when they occasionally screw up. It's that they won't admit it and fix it. We are now three generations into a keyboard that is worse than any competitor's keyboard on the cheapest laptops. The problem with Apple is that they are so damned smug, and that's fine when they've got the best product, but not when they produce a turd.
    muthuk_vanalingamelijahg
  • Reply 120 of 148
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,135member
    Johan42 said:
    Diminishing returns is here. Apple’s planned obsolescence as well. Who will prevail? The customer who has no sense will.
    You’re high. Apple devices have the longest lifespan in the business — both in official support terms (iOS), and in real world useful lifespan. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. I have an iphone 4s that was used as a primary device by a family member until a year or two ago and now is a backup device. What other brand has the same support and lifespan longevity? 
    My Lenovo Thinkpad T60P laptop is over 12 years old and runs like it was new -- but with a modern OS and I'm thinking swapping its main harddrive for an SSD.  How does Apple have the "longest lifespan" ?
    Apple devices have the longest useful lifespan (and as documented by IBM and others, lower TCO). As I said, iOS is supported longer than the android knockoffs, even the flagships, and in general get longer use due to higher build quality and better OS. 

    I'm happy for you that your laptop is still working, but most Windows PCs can't make such a claim.
    Yeh, if you buy a junky HP, they don't last very long.   But that is not necessarily the gold standard.
    elijahg
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