Apple plays consumer safety card in 'Right to Repair' fight

Posted:
in iPhone
Lobbyists representing Apple recently met with lawmakers over the passage of so-called "right to repair" legislation, warning that consumers could hurt themselves if they attempt to open and fix iPhone.

iPhone Battery
iPhone battery


Over the last few weeks, Apple has sent its own representative along with a CompTIA lobbyist -- an organization with which Apple is affiliated -- to meet with lawmakers in an attempt to squash a new California bill that would give consumers the right to repair their own devices, reports Motherboard.

The report cites two sources within the California State Assembly who confirm that Apple's lobbyists have been meeting with members of the Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee, campaigning against the repair bill that will go up for discussion this week.

During these closed-door meetings, the Apple representative brought an iPhone to demonstrate to legislators that an inexperienced consumer could easily hurt themselves by accidentally puncturing the lithium-ion battery contained within. That echoes public comments from Apple's vice president of Environment, Policy and Social Initiatives Lisa Jackson, who said that the device is "too complex" for untrained consumers to repair themselves.

The California Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee will hold a hearing on the bill Tuesday afternoon.

Apple has continued to campaign against right to repair legislation, previously using its own lobbyists in different states before relying more on CompTIA. CompTIA is a lobbying organization that is funded by Apple, as well as Microsoft, Samsung and other tech firms.

More and more states have introduced this right to repair legislation, hitting 17 states as of January 2018.

Despite a hard stance against allowing consumers to conduct their own repairs, Apple in recent months has loosened some of the stringent guidelines around authorized fixes. In March, Apple updated its service policy to allow repairs on iPhones that contain third-party battery replacements. Previously, if an iPhone battery was replaced by a non-Apple authorized service technician, Apple could refuse to repair it.

Another change occurred when Apple quietly launched the new "Apple Genuine Parts Repair" program, which puts Apple service materials in the hands of some companies with fewer restrictions than current service providers may be under. Access to repair materials is a key request of right to repair advocates.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27
    La faccia come il culo... :-D 
  • Reply 2 of 27
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,781member
    Yeah, no one is going to buy that. If you harm yourself through a phone repair, it's entirely your fault. People have a right to fix and modify their own car, and if they're dumb enough to make a modification that causes them harm that's their own stupid fault. Also unlike with a phone, the risk of their mistake harming or even killing another person is much higher, and yet it's still allowed. 
    larryalarz2112caladanianmuthuk_vanalingamairnerdchickchemengin
  • Reply 3 of 27
    elijahg said:
    Yeah, no one is going to buy that. If you harm yourself through a phone repair, it's entirely your fault. People have a right to fix and modify their own car, and if they're dumb enough to make a modification that causes them harm that's their own stupid fault. Also unlike with a phone, the risk of their mistake harming or even killing another person is much higher, and yet it's still allowed. 
    You do know that we’re talking about California right? 

    They would make Apple liable for an inexperienced person injuring or killing themselves by puncturing a battery while trying to remove it. 

    While replacing a battery isn’t too difficult, it can get tricky if you run into complications like broken adhesive pulls. That’s when novices try to pry the battery out and can end up
    puncturing the battery and causing a fire or worse killing you from the fumes. 
    racerhomie3n2itivguy
  • Reply 4 of 27
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,781member
    elijahg said:
    Yeah, no one is going to buy that. If you harm yourself through a phone repair, it's entirely your fault. People have a right to fix and modify their own car, and if they're dumb enough to make a modification that causes them harm that's their own stupid fault. Also unlike with a phone, the risk of their mistake harming or even killing another person is much higher, and yet it's still allowed. 
    You do know that we’re talking about California right? 

    They would make Apple liable for an inexperienced person injuring or killing themselves by puncturing a battery while trying to remove it. 

    While replacing a battery isn’t too difficult, it can get tricky if you run into complications like broken adhesive pulls. That’s when novices try to pry the battery out and can end up
    puncturing the battery and causing a fire or worse killing you from the fumes. 
    Considering that's not AFAIK the case with vehicles, the manufacturer is not liable for third party mods, I don't see why it would be any different with the phone?
    MplsPmuthuk_vanalingamairnerdchemengin
  • Reply 5 of 27
    EsquireCatsEsquireCats Posts: 1,268member
    "Right to repair" is a bit of a misnomer, as this is neither about granting a right, nor could a consumer produce a satisfactory repair for all parts of these devices.

    While I think there should be expanded repair options, especially for areas where Apple are not well represented - the legislation doesn't appreciate that technology, especially new technology is something where providing tools and parts may not be sufficient for a consumer to make a repair. E.G. The device to align the iPhone's camera is not a trivial piece of equipment.
    n2itivguy
  • Reply 6 of 27
    ansdguyansdguy Posts: 4unconfirmed, member
    This argument is simply misleading and made by design.  Few consumers want to tear down their own electronics, themselves.  What this is really about is Apple's refusal to sell replacement parts for ANY of its electronic products.  Be they iPhones, Macs, iPads or any other consumer products.  This is about greed, period.  While I did replace the battery in my iPhone 6, myself will no issues and just a few days ago I decided to disassemble my now non=working, 2 years old 12" MacBook after they told me that the repairs would be nearly $1,000.  I bought are a slightly newer model for $849.  They claimed that the trackpad sustained liquid damage, as well as the logic board being unrepairable.  I've never torn down a laptop in my life. I wanted to send it to an outspoken repair tech in N.Y. for repairs, or at least for diagnosis.  When I called them regarding my issue, they told me it was likely the GPU.  They can't buy the parts to repair it, though.  As far as the trackpad goes, I did find a bit of dried Coke residue on the case AROUND on the lower case, but NOT on the trackpad.  The liquid indicators were not triggered. I do recall a small splash several months ago that had no impact at all back then or since.  

    The only reason that I tore down my Mac is that I could only use it as an oversized paperweight.  Now I would simply like to have the logic board tested and, if the replacement GPU was available, repaired.  And that's the reason that iFixit and other computer repair companies want replacement parts made available to them.
    goldenclawelijahglarryaelectrosoftcaladanianmuthuk_vanalingamairnerdbeowulfschmidtforgot usernamechemengin
  • Reply 7 of 27
    Hopefully the lawmakers are not buying the hokey safety argument. As the person above me stated, this is not specifically about consumers performing repairs. It is about repair shops outside of Apple purview performing repairs of Apple products. What Apple and other company's stance is doing is hurting an entire market sector and hurting the ability for electronics repair technicians to find jobs. If there is a 25 cent capacitor dead on my logic board, I'd like someone to know how to diagnose and replace that part for a moderate labor cost rather than have to buy a new computer. Apple continues to foster a consumer throwaway idealogy.
    elijahgmuthuk_vanalingamairnerdchickforgot username
  • Reply 8 of 27
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,129member
    elijahg said:
    Yeah, no one is going to buy that. If you harm yourself through a phone repair, it's entirely your fault. People have a right to fix and modify their own car, and if they're dumb enough to make a modification that causes them harm that's their own stupid fault. Also unlike with a phone, the risk of their mistake harming or even killing another person is much higher, and yet it's still allowed. 
    Your analogy is a poor one.  First, there is a right to exercise free speech, bear arms, and vote, but there is no “right to repair or modify.”  

    Second, your ability to repair or modify a car is limited by the availability of parts and tools just like it is with Apple products. For example, try buying transmission parts or tools for any BMW manufactured in the past 15 years. 

    And finally, Apple already permits third parties to repair most Macs and iOS devices. 

    This is nothing but a a bunch of clowns who decided to lobby for laws to force business to modify their products so those same clowns could repair them. 
    edited April 2019 thedarkhalfn2itivguy
  • Reply 9 of 27
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,381member
    Americans are horrifically litigious people.  As an American, I have every right to proclaim that truth.  Americans sue at the drop of a hat.  They even lie (e.g., slip and falls in stores) to sue.  Sometimes I wish suing was banned entirely, forcing people to turn the other cheek as they ought to do anyway.  Life is hard.  We need to get over it.

    So long as this Right to Repair law prohibits litigation resulting from a consumer attempting a repair themselves (and getting hurt) or via a third party, such would eliminate that excuse from Apple and protect Apple too.  The key here is to prevent stupids from using the Right to Repair law to sue Apple due to their own ineptness or fraud.
    MisterKitn2itivguy
  • Reply 10 of 27
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,965member
    flydog said:
    elijahg said:
    Yeah, no one is going to buy that. If you harm yourself through a phone repair, it's entirely your fault. People have a right to fix and modify their own car, and if they're dumb enough to make a modification that causes them harm that's their own stupid fault. Also unlike with a phone, the risk of their mistake harming or even killing another person is much higher, and yet it's still allowed. 
    Your analogy is a poor one.  First, there is a right to exercise free speech, bear arms, and vote, but there is no “right to repair or modify.”  

    Second, your ability to repair or modify a car is limited by the availability of parts and tools just like it is with Apple products. For example, try buying transmission parts or tools for any BMW manufactured in the past 15 years. 

    And finally, Apple already permits third parties to repair most Macs and iOS devices. 

    This is nothing but a a bunch of clowns who decided to lobby for laws to force business to modify their products so those same clowns could repair them. 
    That's exactly the point - I can get a new alternator for my car. I can't get a new battery for my iPhone without going to an unauthorized gray market dealer. If I call BMW, I can easily get parts for a 10 year old 328i, no questions asked. Can you do that with apple? Nope, because Apple refuses to sell them.

    The 'safety' argument is a complete straw man argument. Again, using the car analogy, cars pose infinitely more safety risks than smart phones do but we don't think twice about making parts available for them.
    muthuk_vanalingamapplephairnerdchemenginOutdoorAppDeveloper
  • Reply 11 of 27
    larryalarrya Posts: 608member
    It’s “quash”, not “squash”.   You can squash a bug, but you must quash an argument. 
    beowulfschmidtn2itivguy
  • Reply 12 of 27
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    Nobody cares about this except DIY types. And they are a tiny percentage of consumer electronics customers.
  • Reply 13 of 27
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 1,039member
    They could easily design the iPhone, iPad and MacBook to have user replaceable batteries.

    They want planned obsolescence. Why else does the cost of any repair out of warranty of the HomePod cost almost as much as a new unit?

    xixoelectrosoftlarz2112muthuk_vanalingamnubusairnerdchemengin
  • Reply 14 of 27
    xixoxixo Posts: 449member
    This is about limiting resales of older / used equipment. Used phones / laptops / desktops reduce sales of new ones. SJ is long dead and TC only cares about shareholders.

    I know a russian guy (in america) who can swap out an android or iphone (6) screen in 10 minutes for $60. battery swaps equally cheap.

    that kind of aftermarket work keeps gear in circulation and prevents new sales.

    he can't do iphone 7 and up - no parts. though, he does sometimes get those parts from china when they 'overrun' a production order and sneak the overage out the back door.

    safety? please: automobiles have real battery acid and gasoline (and they can fall off the jack and kill you) - compared to a Li battery pack?

    it's about greed and limiting competition from used gear. not everyone's paying the apple tax.
    electrosoftMplsPairnerdforgot usernamechemengin
  • Reply 15 of 27
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,965member
    Nobody cares about this except DIY types. And they are a tiny percentage of consumer electronics customers.
    no - the same policies also prevent the proliferation of independent repair shops, so this affects everyone who needs to repair their phone.
    muthuk_vanalingamairnerdforgot username
  • Reply 16 of 27
    mike fixmike fix Posts: 270member
    Right to Repair is important on so many levels.  It helps enable faster and cheaper services, not just the DIY community.  When Apple tells you 3-5 days or longer, this will potentially give you the option of a 3rd party repair using OEM parts performed quicker and possibly cheaper.  
    muthuk_vanalingamairnerdforgot username
  • Reply 17 of 27
    applephappleph Posts: 11member
    elijahg said:
    Yeah, no one is going to buy that. If you harm yourself through a phone repair, it's entirely your fault. People have a right to fix and modify their own car, and if they're dumb enough to make a modification that causes them harm that's their own stupid fault. Also unlike with a phone, the risk of their mistake harming or even killing another person is much higher, and yet it's still allowed. 
    I have courage to open up my phone, I guess I should have the same with my car. Sarcasm aside, I think the risk of injury for opening a mobile device is close to 0 fo me, the main issue really is, apple is charging too much for the repair through replacement of a broken part, clearly they would get more profit with repairs compared to buying a new device. It's ridiculous.
    chemengin
  • Reply 18 of 27
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    Infesting approach that people may hurt themselves, there are lots of things that people do that could themselves and it does not stop them, but our government is more than happy to try in step in and stop people.

    However, people are free to repair their own cars, talk about hurting one's self and when someone screws up their car repair they can hurt and kill other people, we do not see the government getting in the middle of that one.
    airnerd
  • Reply 19 of 27
    airnerdairnerd Posts: 693member
    flydog said:
    elijahg said:
    Yeah, no one is going to buy that. If you harm yourself through a phone repair, it's entirely your fault. People have a right to fix and modify their own car, and if they're dumb enough to make a modification that causes them harm that's their own stupid fault. Also unlike with a phone, the risk of their mistake harming or even killing another person is much higher, and yet it's still allowed. 
    Your analogy is a poor one.  First, there is a right to exercise free speech, bear arms, and vote, but there is no “right to repair or modify.”  

    Second, your ability to repair or modify a car is limited by the availability of parts and tools just like it is with Apple products. For example, try buying transmission parts or tools for any BMW manufactured in the past 15 years. 

    And finally, Apple already permits third parties to repair most Macs and iOS devices. 

    This is nothing but a a bunch of clowns who decided to lobby for laws to force business to modify their products so those same clowns could repair them. 
    You couldn't be more wrong.  Which part or tool do you need for this years BMW?  I can buy it right now and have it in your mailbox by Friday night.  Name your part and your address and I'll get it right over.  


    beowulfschmidtchemengin
  • Reply 20 of 27
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,597member
    elijahg said:
    Yeah, no one is going to buy that. If you harm yourself through a phone repair, it's entirely your fault. People have a right to fix and modify their own car, and if they're dumb enough to make a modification that causes them harm that's their own stupid fault. Also unlike with a phone, the risk of their mistake harming or even killing another person is much higher, and yet it's still allowed. 
    So if you repair / replace iPhone battery yourself and screw it up so it shorts out mid flight, catches fire, and the plane is forced to make an emergency landing, it’s just “your own stupid fault”, right? Please do tell the airline, the FAA and all the other passengers how stupid you are.
    edited May 2019 n2itivguyforgot username
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