Many people reading the Apple Insider article (and podcast) about TextBlade are undoubtedly intrigued with the technology.
After the initial comments, anyone reading on to the now 21 pages of blather probably has their head spinning wondering who or what to believe about the company, the product, the integrity of the people involved and the moral character of the various frequent posters here on this thread and even proper use of latin roots in naming things.
I have been in the test user group since October 2016 (my initial impressions here) and I'm very enthusiastic about the potential for this product to change the way we work with technology. I've been a Waytools watcher since 19 months prior to that, had various discussions with the company as part of my testing efforts, spent many hours thinking about the problems and potentials of it as a technology and their possible routes as a business endeavor, and participated in lots of discussions about these things on the Waytools Forums and the private discussion group among testers (which the company does not participate in).
FOR ANYONE READING THIS FAR (in the thread, and in my post!) I want to refer you to two posts which appeared today on the Waytools forum. One post from an individual who visited Waytools while traveling giving his impression of the technology and the people. The other post from an individual that I've come to know and respect (through the testing discussions) with a strong technology background who has not only been in the test group but has also had detailed conversations with Mark about the evolution of the technology and its future.
Although each post has it's own purpose taken together they paint a wonderful picture of the technology, the company, the delays, etc. They are self evidently from genuine individuals describing their experiences and impressions, and the picture they paint is totally consistent with my knowledge of where things stand and how to think about the company and technology. I highly recommend reading both posts.
I don't know if they ever "assured" that they would have GR in 2019. I doubt it. I know they hope to. They may expect to, but I don't recall them saying that.
For me to even guess how long it could take, I'd need to know a lot more information - and even then I'd be guessing.
They said a very unambiguous "Yes." about it in the following WayTools Forum post when AdamRoxby asked "Will 2019 finally be when we see the Textblade after all these years?"
This also shows just how much he cares about his (anonymous) reputation. His posts are indeed the work of a professional.
All I am doing is holding you to the original terms of the sale. I realize how much you hate that.
Everyone who has criticized you and ridiculed you is a customer or former customer that you lied to repeatedly.
Do you want to force refund me? Maybe you should force refund everybody. But you cant let go of all that money, can you? Thats what its all about.
I understand this is hard, with you being the victim and all. All you did was collect $1,000,000+ from 10,000+ people and lie to them for 4+ years. Why are you so persecuted?
And fortuitously, we’ve now too been educated about”lying liars” vs. mere liars.
What matters most is informing the public about the chief executive con artist at Waytools, Mark Knighton, and demonstrating how he engages with this customers.
Keep digging Mark. Everybody is watching.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Fortunately, this 500 post thread has ‘TextBladeDenier’ to set us all straight on how to speak rationally, professionally, and respectfully.
This also shows just how much he cares about his (anonymous) reputation. His posts are indeed the work of a professional.
And fortuitously, we’ve now too been educated about”lying liars” vs. mere liars.
For us to comprehend the full spectrum and nuance of lying, it really took the skills of an expert on the subject.
Sorry. Can you please start posting on topic ? It is in your best interest to talk about the TB. (Because if you don't you really concede the points of deflecting and obfuscating leveled at you by TBD, don't you see? Talking nonsense without talking ANY details of project status does not help you)
I repeat the request for the 3rd time. Hope you don't ignore it again: Can you outline in broad strokes with potential "estimated" dates for completion of the new firmware and the rest of the hurdles to be overcome until GR ? That would convey a general sense of project status for everybody.
I don't know if they ever "assured" that they would have GR in 2019. I doubt it. I know they hope to. They may expect to, but I don't recall them saying that.
For me to even guess how long it could take, I'd need to know a lot more information - and even then I'd be guessing.
They said a very unambiguous "Yes." about it in the following WayTools Forum post when AdamRoxby asked "Will 2019 finally be when we see the Textblade after all these years?"
[ ... ] After the initial comments, anyone reading on to the now 21 pages of blather probably has their head spinning wondering who or what to believe about the company, the product, the integrity of the people involved and the moral character of the various frequent posters here on this thread and even proper use of latin roots in naming things. [ ... ] Although each post has it's own purpose taken together they paint a wonderful picture of the technology, the company, the delays, etc. They are self evidently from genuine individuals describing their experiences and impressions, and the picture they paint is totally consistent with my knowledge of where things stand and how to think about the company and technology. I highly recommend reading both posts. [ ... ]
Sidestepping facts which add up to Waytools' misrepresentation for the purpose of getting people to give them and let them keep money over a period of four years. That you are clearly aware there is such a thing as judging moral character, don't seem to share DBK's pathological myopia, yet you (not to mention your cronies) would publicly demonstrate your willingness to sweep the pattern of inconvenient yet highly relevant details aside for a bout of hollow core cheerleading leaves my jaw on the floor. Leave aside the time and money people have donated to the cause, the self-inflicted damage of practicing the refusal to see inconvenient character traits for what they are will have real consequences in your lives if not corrected.
Fortunately, this 500 post thread has ‘TextBladeDenier’ to set us all straight on how to speak rationally, professionally, and respectfully.
This also shows just how much he cares about his (anonymous) reputation. His posts are indeed the work of a professional.
And fortuitously, we’ve now too been educated about”lying liars” vs. mere liars.
For us to comprehend the full spectrum and nuance of lying, it really took the skills of an expert on the subject.
Sorry. Can you please start posting on topic ? It is in your best interest to talk about the TB. (Because if you don't you really concede the points of deflecting and obfuscating leveled at you by TBD, don't you see? Talking nonsense without talking ANY details of project status does not help you)
I repeat the request for the 3rd time. Hope you don't ignore it again: Can you outline in broad strokes with potential "estimated" dates for completion of the new firmware and the rest of the hurdles to be overcome until GR ? That would convey a general sense of project status for everybody.
I appreciate your call for positivity and I've tried to model your stance -- taking some time to read through both this thread and WTF -- for anything positive uttered by Waytools recently. But you know, there's nothing, no saving grace. They may be great people in real life (I'll give them that, from what I've read from people who actually met them), but their actions and posts on WTF (and now, here) -- which is the only output general public sees -- are utter trash.
In just the above-said post, you can tell they're kicking and twitching, wanting to ban some accounts and close off some threads -- like Pavlov's dog. Quoting from the Terminator movie: This is what they do; this is ALL they do.
I don't want to be the Debbie-downer here, but I doubt you'll get any answer out of Waytools, if their 4 year-long history is any indication. Better people than us have tried, and got zip.
All I can do as now an ex-customer is to warn the general passerby what they can expect for their $99 + shipping fees.
Isn't it funny how they keep the shipping fees when they haven't delivered ANYTHING and there's no plan to deliver ANYTHING?
I don't know if they ever "assured" that they would have GR in 2019. I doubt it. I know they hope to. They may expect to, but I don't recall them saying that.
For me to even guess how long it could take, I'd need to know a lot more information - and even then I'd be guessing.
They said a very unambiguous "Yes." about it in the following WayTools Forum post when AdamRoxby asked "Will 2019 finally be when we see the Textblade after all these years?"
Fair enough, though I wouldn’t call that “assured”. I interpreted that more of what they expected which is a step below that.
In their very next post in response to how that unambiguous "Yes" sounded different than previous so-called estimates, they gave a similarly unambiguous "It is". That is to say, Waytools is clearly affirming that their 2019 GR date (2 posts prior) is a higher level of commitment/confidence than their previous so-called estimates. That is not a mere "expectation".
So, I did the same thing with your posts. You don't have a large number, but you certainly have more than I wanted to take time to read. But I did go back quite a ways without seeing anything really nasty. Don't know about even earlier ones. And I'll say that sometimes I thought you were being a bit snarky in your comments. Maybe that wasn't your intention. Even if my impression is accurate, it probably wouldn't be enough to bother me. But it isn't my forum.
I have at times been snarky, but I have never been rude or nasty. I am well aware that it isn't your forum. Which is why I reached out to @WayTools_Support to ask for guidance and help in resolving it and not you. I'm not sure why you bothered to respond to me with what essentially amounted to an "I don't know" when I wasn't asking you in the first place. How is that useful?
Do you have any mod privileges at the WayTools Forum? I'm assuming not, but on the off chance that you do, can you help me resolve this?
I don't know if they ever "assured" that they would have GR in 2019. I doubt it. I know they hope to. They may expect to, but I don't recall them saying that.
For me to even guess how long it could take, I'd need to know a lot more information - and even then I'd be guessing.
They said a very unambiguous "Yes." about it in the following WayTools Forum post when AdamRoxby asked "Will 2019 finally be when we see the Textblade after all these years?"
I don't want to be the Debbie-downer here, but I doubt you'll get any answer out of Waytools, if their 4 year-long history is any indication. Better people than us have tried, and got zip.
I know and agree. I have tried and failed too both here, at WTF until banned, and by email.
I am just trying to not give grounds for "confusion" where they seem to be able to address everything about the "style" of the posts, attack the posters, etc but absolutely zero on info on their own product / overall status of the project which I guess should their focus and not all this babbling of conspiracy theories, bad actors, secret cabals of nasty unnamed competitors, etc etc.
@WayTools_Support: PLEASE talk about the TB and the project status. That is all we need. Thanks
BTW, do you believe other (much, much bigger) companies in other forums address customers / ex-customers like this ? No, they don't. They just say their piece about their product and services and answer specific questions. I have never seen an Apple rep for example babble incoherent passive-aggressive accusations willy-nilly and avoid answering anything concrete. Just sayin'
In their very next post in response to how that unambiguous "Yes" sounded different than previous so-called estimates, they gave a similarly unambiguous "It is". That is to say, Waytools is clearly affirming that their 2019 GR date (2 posts prior) is a higher level of commitment/confidence than their previous so-called estimates. That is not a mere "expectation".
Oh, but I’d say it is still an expectation. Certainly, until it is actually released, nothing can be guaranteed. So it is true they seem to have more confidence in this expectation than others, but I sure didn’t take it as “assured”!
I have at times been snarky, but I have never been rude or nasty. I am well aware that it isn't your forum. Which is why I reached out to @WayTools_Support to ask for guidance and help in resolving it and not you. I'm not sure why you bothered to respond to me with what essentially amounted to an "I don't know" when I wasn't asking you in the first place. How is that useful?
Do you have any mod privileges at the WayTools Forum? I'm assuming not, but on the off chance that you do, can you help me resolve this?
Well, snarky is kind of a rude thing too. But not what I would call nasty. As for why I responded, well, there was the fact you were referencing a post I made on WTF. then there was the matter of evaluating why something may cause a poster to be banned - and thus I gave you some support based on what I read. I try to be fair.
One post from an individual who visited Waytools while traveling giving his impression of the technology and the people. The other post from an individual that I've come to know and respect (through the testing discussions) with a strong technology background
Thanks, I had read the 2nd one but not the first. Nice read. I am sure as I said above in my "attitudinal theory post" that Mark fits the profile of some tech geniuses I worked with. He must be able to charm his audience with the knowledge and passion when he turns it on. Everybody that met him seem to be in agreement. He must be very likable, charismatic and perhaps brilliant.
It fits my mental potential profile of him perfectly. But perhaps also the other not so positive aspects I mentioned in that post too that could explain quite a few posts here and at WTF that add no value to WT.
I have no doubt the TB is great piece of tech and most others who have ever placed their orders at one time might be in agreement. I am now much more patient and willing to wait a bit longer than before given other experiences I outlined in other posts. I do believe it will ship (sometime).
My issues summarized are:
- The banning: I (and many others) were unjustly banned. I could even post a link to a thread at WTF that got me banned for your to read (wouldlovetobuy at WTF) but besides the point.
- The "enforced" refunding: I can't believe that most if not all of posters at WTF need to clarity "please do not cancel my order" if they feel that what they point out is even marginally critical. People are afraid to talk even in the Rants section of WTF. That is nuts and I might say unprecedented.
- No Project Status Communication: Since early 2018 communication has degraded dramatically. They used to be frequent, then quarterly, the last in July 2018 after quite a few months gap and with not much new info, and since then we are not getting any updates. I started the "next updates post" at WTF, (quite popular with 374 posts and 25k views) because of the delay of WT posting an update. Now you can read a few others there in its place. People have been requesting updates and we are not getting them. Just a few comments here and there but nothing that outlines the overall project status and gives a sense of GR timing. Even here, I have asked them quite a few times for a more comprehensive updates even on broad terms with tentative dates but no luck as of yet.
- Too much time invested by WT in calling out potential secret unnamed organizations working against it, bad actors, etc etc, instead of them talking about their product and project status updates.
And fortuitously, we’ve now too been educated about”lying liars” vs. mere liars.
Sorry. Can you please start posting on topic ? It is in your best interest to talk about the TB. (Because if you don't you really concede the points of deflecting and obfuscating leveled at you by TBD, don't you see? Talking nonsense without talking ANY details of project status does not help you)
arkorott - You convey the mindset of a victim.
First, you apologize on behalf of their bad behavior. 'Sorry.'
Then, 'If you dont stop hitting people, you concede the points that you are violent, dont you see?' (hope the obvious point is taken here, you are observing them doing something, but hesitating to concede that they are already doing it).
I am not leveling any new or speculative charges at Waytools here. Everything I am saying is based on 4+ years of their past behavior. Facts.
Talking nonsense without talking ANY details of project status does not help you)
Mark Knighton is oblivious to that observation. He does not care. He does not care about his reputation.
He is not here to help you. He wants your money.
WAKE UP.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
So we’ll post all product news on our forum, and you’ll find it there.
By 'news' Mark Knighton is referring to his many lies about updates (tomorrow, next week, next month) and lies about ship dates, 4+ years of those lies.
Go to his forum and challenge the sincerity of any of his lies, and you will be banned.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Being consistent in what one says can also be a symptom of someone sticking to the truth.
Another way to stick to the truth would be to avoid equivocation on a word like 'shipped'. In a retail context it means shipping product to its new owners, not sending to testers review units which are explicitly declared not to be their property.
The facts of the Textblade development could have been an epic and heroic story of a great vision supported by people willing to give the benefit of the doubt, if only the nature of the process had been openly admitted all along; if only there had been the courage to play it straight, rather than the apparent belief that being disingenuous to persuade people to give and let you keep money is a means justified by an end, which no matter how innovative and perfected the final product turns out, will never be true.
First, you apologize on behalf of their bad behavior. 'Sorry.'
Then, 'If you dont stop hitting people, you concede the points that you are violent, dont you see?' (hope the obvious point is taken here, you are observing them doing something, but hesitating to concede that they are already doing it).
I am not leveling any new or speculative charges at Waytools here. Everything I am saying is based on 4+ years of their past behavior. Facts.
Talking nonsense without talking ANY details of project status does not help you)
Mark Knighton is oblivious to that observation. He does not care. He does not care about his reputation.
He is not here to help you. He wants your money.
WAKE UP.
I understand where you are coming from. But to clarify I was not apologizing just trying to convey my point a different way.
Where I disagree with you is that you believe there is ill intent from them and I don't think so. Maybe other issues at play but don't think it is a scam. (If I did I would have clicked the refund button quick and would not waste my time following up)
Comments
After the initial comments, anyone reading on to the now 21 pages of blather probably has their head spinning wondering who or what to believe about the company, the product, the integrity of the people involved and the moral character of the various frequent posters here on this thread and even proper use of latin roots in naming things.
I have been in the test user group since October 2016 (my initial impressions here) and I'm very enthusiastic about the potential for this product to change the way we work with technology. I've been a Waytools watcher since 19 months prior to that, had various discussions with the company as part of my testing efforts, spent many hours thinking about the problems and potentials of it as a technology and their possible routes as a business endeavor, and participated in lots of discussions about these things on the Waytools Forums and the private discussion group among testers (which the company does not participate in).
FOR ANYONE READING THIS FAR (in the thread, and in my post!) I want to refer you to two posts which appeared today on the Waytools forum. One post from an individual who visited Waytools while traveling giving his impression of the technology and the people. The other post from an individual that I've come to know and respect (through the testing discussions) with a strong technology background who has not only been in the test group but has also had detailed conversations with Mark about the evolution of the technology and its future.
Although each post has it's own purpose taken together they paint a wonderful picture of the technology, the company, the delays, etc. They are self evidently from genuine individuals describing their experiences and impressions, and the picture they paint is totally consistent with my knowledge of where things stand and how to think about the company and technology. I highly recommend reading both posts.
https://forum.waytools.com/t/waytools-what-s-the-latest-info-on-updates/5527/40
Everyone who has criticized you and ridiculed you is a customer or former customer that you lied to repeatedly.
Do you want to force refund me? Maybe you should force refund everybody. But you cant let go of all that money, can you? Thats what its all about.
I understand this is hard, with you being the victim and all. All you did was collect $1,000,000+ from 10,000+ people and lie to them for 4+ years. Why are you so persecuted?
What matters most is informing the public about the chief executive con artist at Waytools, Mark Knighton, and demonstrating how he engages with this customers.
Keep digging Mark. Everybody is watching.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
(Because if you don't you really concede the points of deflecting and obfuscating leveled at you by TBD, don't you see? Talking nonsense without talking ANY details of project status does not help you)
I repeat the request for the 3rd time. Hope you don't ignore it again:
Can you outline in broad strokes with potential "estimated" dates for completion of the new firmware and the rest of the hurdles to be overcome until GR ? That would convey a general sense of project status for everybody.
I appreciate your call for positivity and I've tried to model your stance -- taking some time to read through both this thread and WTF -- for anything positive uttered by Waytools recently. But you know, there's nothing, no saving grace. They may be great people in real life (I'll give them that, from what I've read from people who actually met them), but their actions and posts on WTF (and now, here) -- which is the only output general public sees -- are utter trash.
In just the above-said post, you can tell they're kicking and twitching, wanting to ban some accounts and close off some threads -- like Pavlov's dog. Quoting from the Terminator movie: This is what they do; this is ALL they do.
I don't want to be the Debbie-downer here, but I doubt you'll get any answer out of Waytools, if their 4 year-long history is any indication. Better people than us have tried, and got zip.
All I can do as now an ex-customer is to warn the general passerby what they can expect for their $99 + shipping fees.
Isn't it funny how they keep the shipping fees when they haven't delivered ANYTHING and there's no plan to deliver ANYTHING?
Do you have any mod privileges at the WayTools Forum? I'm assuming not, but on the off chance that you do, can you help me resolve this?
I know and agree. I have tried and failed too both here, at WTF until banned, and by email.
I am just trying to not give grounds for "confusion" where they seem to be able to address everything about the "style" of the posts, attack the posters, etc but absolutely zero on info on their own product / overall status of the project which I guess should their focus and not all this babbling of conspiracy theories, bad actors, secret cabals of nasty unnamed competitors, etc etc.
@WayTools_Support: PLEASE talk about the TB and the project status. That is all we need. Thanks
BTW, do you believe other (much, much bigger) companies in other forums address customers / ex-customers like this ? No, they don't.
They just say their piece about their product and services and answer specific questions.
I have never seen an Apple rep for example babble incoherent passive-aggressive accusations willy-nilly and avoid answering anything concrete. Just sayin'
Well, snarky is kind of a rude thing too. But not what I would call nasty. As for why I responded, well, there was the fact you were referencing a post I made on WTF. then there was the matter of evaluating why something may cause a poster to be banned - and thus I gave you some support based on what I read. I try to be fair.
I have no mod capabilities.
It fits my mental potential profile of him perfectly. But perhaps also the other not so positive aspects I mentioned in that post too that could explain quite a few posts here and at WTF that add no value to WT.
I have no doubt the TB is great piece of tech and most others who have ever placed their orders at one time might be in agreement.
I am now much more patient and willing to wait a bit longer than before given other experiences I outlined in other posts.
I do believe it will ship (sometime).
My issues summarized are:
- The banning: I (and many others) were unjustly banned. I could even post a link to a thread at WTF that got me banned for your to read (wouldlovetobuy at WTF) but besides the point.
- The "enforced" refunding: I can't believe that most if not all of posters at WTF need to clarity "please do not cancel my order" if they feel that what they point out is even marginally critical. People are afraid to talk even in the Rants section of WTF. That is nuts and I might say unprecedented.
- No Project Status Communication: Since early 2018 communication has degraded dramatically. They used to be frequent, then quarterly, the last in July 2018 after quite a few months gap and with not much new info, and since then we are not getting any updates. I started the "next updates post" at WTF, (quite popular with 374 posts and 25k views) because of the delay of WT posting an update. Now you can read a few others there in its place. People have been requesting updates and we are not getting them. Just a few comments here and there but nothing that outlines the overall project status and gives a sense of GR timing.
Even here, I have asked them quite a few times for a more comprehensive updates even on broad terms with tentative dates but no luck as of yet.
- Too much time invested by WT in calling out potential secret unnamed organizations working against it, bad actors, etc etc, instead of them talking about their product and project status updates.
First, you apologize on behalf of their bad behavior. 'Sorry.'
Then, 'If you dont stop hitting people, you concede the points that you are violent, dont you see?' (hope the obvious point is taken here, you are observing them doing something, but hesitating to concede that they are already doing it).
I am not leveling any new or speculative charges at Waytools here. Everything I am saying is based on 4+ years of their past behavior. Facts.
Mark Knighton is oblivious to that observation. He does not care. He does not care about his reputation.
He is not here to help you. He wants your money.
WAKE UP.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
The new infrastructure tech provides very exciting and powerful foundation to facilitate general release.
The job of anonymous posts here is to stay-on-message to disparage our work.
These repetitive posts clamp the topic to fud talk. By intent, that’s to thwart any meaningful discussion of the product.
So we’ll post all product news on our forum, and you’ll find it there.
Its not your non-existent 4 year old unfinished product that is disparaged. It is you. Liar. Scammer.
By 'news' Mark Knighton is referring to his many lies about updates (tomorrow, next week, next month) and lies about ship dates, 4+ years of those lies.
Go to his forum and challenge the sincerity of any of his lies, and you will be banned.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
And very curiously parallel to anon Rolanbek, anon TextBladeDenier also insists on keeping an order from these ‘lying’ scoundrels.
The same product he wants to ‘protect’ you from getting. You know - do as they say, not as they do.
Basically, buy their narrative, instead of the product.
The same product that never shipped, never to the author, who never wrote this article. You know, those ‘facts’.
Another way to stick to the truth would be to avoid equivocation on a word like 'shipped'. In a retail context it means shipping product to its new owners, not sending to testers review units which are explicitly declared not to be their property.
The facts of the Textblade development could have been an epic and heroic story of a great vision supported by people willing to give the benefit of the doubt, if only the nature of the process had been openly admitted all along; if only there had been the courage to play it straight, rather than the apparent belief that being disingenuous to persuade people to give and let you keep money is a means justified by an end, which no matter how innovative and perfected the final product turns out, will never be true.
I understand where you are coming from. But to clarify I was not apologizing just trying to convey my point a different way.
Where I disagree with you is that you believe there is ill intent from them and I don't think so. Maybe other issues at play but don't think it is a scam. (If I did I would have clicked the refund button quick and would not waste my time following up)
But, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.