Samsung launches Galaxy Fold with new materials, tweaked design

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 97
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    MplsP said:

    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.
    Not really. If, say, Apple were to release a folding device, I very much doubt it will be based on this crap, and instead on their own internal R&D. But nice attempt at claiming are future products are beholden to your knockoffs. 

    And you people would blow your gaskets if Apple releases a $2,000 working prototype—I mean, first generation phone.
    So you’re trying to say that Apple is not looking at the Samsung Fold to see how Samsung implemented the technology, what works and what didn’t work? 

    If you’re right, than Apple is incredibly stupid. Fortunately I think Apple’s smarter than you are. 

    The original iPhone wasn’t revolutionary from a technology standpoint - there was nothing in it that hadn’t been done before. It was revolutionary in how it integrated the technology with the operating system to make it seem less and easy to use in a way no one had done before. The fact that Samsung was first (or among the first) to market with a folding phone is great. I don’t care about new, I care about good, well-designed and useful. 
    Seriously?  You don't think computer operating systems are technology?  Show me where the iPhone's original operating system was 'done before.'
    Palm -- which in many ways was superior.  The only thing iOS introduced was using your finger in place of a stylus.
    Uhm, that Apple created the operating system to do just that in an elegant way was in fact the innovation that became the disruption of all phones prior.


    LOL... isn't that (replacing a stylus with a finger) pretty much what I said?
  • Reply 62 of 97
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:

    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.
    Not really. If, say, Apple were to release a folding device, I very much doubt it will be based on this crap, and instead on their own internal R&D. But nice attempt at claiming are future products are beholden to your knockoffs. 

    And you people would blow your gaskets if Apple releases a $2,000 working prototype—I mean, first generation phone.
    So you’re trying to say that Apple is not looking at the Samsung Fold to see how Samsung implemented the technology, what works and what didn’t work? 

    If you’re right, than Apple is incredibly stupid. Fortunately I think Apple’s smarter than you are. 
    Somebody’s touchy this morning. 

    I mean what I said — Apple does its own R&D, has already filed patents, and if they find a reason to build such a device it will leverage their own work process and won’t owe a lick to the first failers who rush to market with junk. Just like the Watch doesn’t owe a thing to Samsung’s god awful first failures. 
    ...and I meant what I said. It doesn't matter if they are doing their own R&D, any company that ignores and fails to analyze competitors devices is stupid and blind. I don't think Apple is either - they will certainly be looking at the Fold to see how well it does or doesn't work. It doesn't matter if the competitors' devices are bad or good. You can learn from others' mistakes as well as their success.

    I still think Apple is smarter than you are, just not as smart as you think they are.


    Actually, I don't think that is relevant.   Apple has long been dependent on others like Samsung for advanced displays (such as OLED).   The ability to add a flexible display to OLED is again contingent on other innovative companies like Samsung and Huawei.   Apple will be following along with this in due time -- just as it did with OLED displays.
  • Reply 63 of 97
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,418member
    tmay said:
    MplsP said:

    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.
    Not really. If, say, Apple were to release a folding device, I very much doubt it will be based on this crap, and instead on their own internal R&D. But nice attempt at claiming are future products are beholden to your knockoffs. 

    And you people would blow your gaskets if Apple releases a $2,000 working prototype—I mean, first generation phone.
    So you’re trying to say that Apple is not looking at the Samsung Fold to see how Samsung implemented the technology, what works and what didn’t work? 

    If you’re right, than Apple is incredibly stupid. Fortunately I think Apple’s smarter than you are. 

    The original iPhone wasn’t revolutionary from a technology standpoint - there was nothing in it that hadn’t been done before. It was revolutionary in how it integrated the technology with the operating system to make it seem less and easy to use in a way no one had done before. The fact that Samsung was first (or among the first) to market with a folding phone is great. I don’t care about new, I care about good, well-designed and useful. 
    Seriously?  You don't think computer operating systems are technology?  Show me where the iPhone's original operating system was 'done before.'
    Palm -- which in many ways was superior.  The only thing iOS introduced was using your finger in place of a stylus.
    Uhm, that Apple created the operating system to do just that in an elegant way was in fact the innovation that became the disruption of all phones prior.


    LOL... isn't that (replacing a stylus with a finger) pretty much what I said?
    It's how Apple got there. 

    What ever happened to Palm anyway?

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2010/03/rip-palm-its-over-and-heres-why/

    You keep reiterating how Apple gets it wrong, yet your champion is dead. How can that be?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 64 of 97
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,418member
    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.


    It’s not a necessary first step. There has been almost no call for a large folding phone. This is simply a matter of prestige for Samsung, Huawei and others. They believe, wrongly, that whoever gets to be first will be on the historical record for that. But, in reality, what will happen is that the record will be talking instead about how the technology wasn’t ready, and how rash those companies were in their race for marketing purposes. These companies could have easily done more R&D to iron out these problems.

    If indeed these “fixes” improve the reliability and performance of this phone, it just shows that Samsung should have waited before attempting the first release. If, after some time, they do begin to fail again, it will show that they shouldn’t have released it at all, and should instead have continued R&D until these problems were completely resolved. If they found that they couldn’t completely resolve the issues, then they could have just not released the phone at all, and not embarrassed themselves for a second time since the first major blunder with the Note 7.

    while you continue to say that Huawei didn’t hold back their introduction in order to redesign some aspects of their phone, you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this. If their phone was spic and span, as you keep saying it is, without holding, or using one, of course, then Huawei would have had no reason to back out of their launch. But they did. They had the chance to be second, since another phone was at least shown, by, who was it again, Xiaomi? It doesn’t matter really, as all of them will fail in the marketplace, if not in your hand.

    and it’s not a matter of us giving it a chance. None of us here will be buying one, and that includes you. Giving it a chance means buying one.

    maybe some time from now, someone will get it right.
    This is where it all fell apart:

    "you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this"

    With hindsight we learn.

    The Mate X was delayed for these reasons:

    5G carrier calibration.
    Internal upgrades (as a result of the delay).

    Try as you might you cannot ignore these facts as they are straight from Huawei at an executive level.

    Also from an executive level was the affirmation that the time resulting from the delay would be used to improve some aspects of the initial model (mostly software related). The internal hardware upgrade was simply due to the model being released on a different point of the roadmap. Not due to 'problems'.

    On another level, Trump's interference also probably played a part.

    Now, I have already broken down your previous (completely unsubstantiated) claims in a previous thread where you went out on a limb to mention 'all' the problems the phone had had.

    How could you even possibly back that claim up for a phone that:

    1. Wasn't on the market
    2. Had had been subject to numerous hands on with zero problems reported.
    3. Has been the daily driver for numerous executives and engineers for the whole year.
    4. Has been in development for years.
    5. For which Richard Yu went on record as saying was market ready (if the market had been ready as planned - it wasn't due to carrier issues)

    I provided links for everything I said.

    You provided nothing.

    From 'all' the problems to zero problems. There's a big gap between those two.

    Huawei has no pressing desire to be first or second or third. It has a roadmap.

    The original roadmap was for an MWC reveal and a summer release. That couldn't happen as the carrier side wasn't ready. Then Trump waded in (some carriers weren't sure they would even be able to sell the phone) and with the resulting delay Huawei decided to majorly upgrade the internals of the phone (hence the tentative November release).

    I hope you can see that it is you who is wrong and not just a little wrong but utterly and soundly wrong.

    The Kirin 990 (the chip the phone will carry) will be presented tomorrow. At least one version of that chip will have an on-SoC 5G modem. This is major news. If all versions of the Kirin 990 have an on-board Balong 5G chip it will be even bigger news. We already know that the Huawei sub brand Honor will be launching a Kirin 990 5G chip before year end. That is going to represent A LOT of 5G equipped phones before year end from just one company. TSMC's 7mn/EUV output (Kirin 980/990/Ascend 910 etc plus A12/13 etc) may be a little stretched for a time.

    QC, MediaTek and Samsung will also be providing their own 5G solutions (QC has an IFA presentation just after Huawei) very soon (year end or shortly after).

    Right around these numerous 5G announcements Apple will present the iPhone 11 which (according to rumours) will not have a 5G capacity in any variant. 

    There are going to be a lot of marketing headwinds for Apple this year end and having not one but two foldable 5G phones released around the iPhone launch will simply serve to highlight Apple's lack of 5G options (if true, of course). Now if you were a regular iPhone purchaser on a three year upgrade cycle, looking at phones this Christmas, you would legitimately have some doubts. Just knowing that Apple is going to have an on SoC 5G in twelve of those 36 months (it is unthinkable they won't) will surely curb your desire to upgrade.

    I've said it before and will repeat it here. You can expect a marketing blitz for 5G that will make even the most fervent '5G meh!' proclaimers doubt. If the area where you live is earmarked for 5G, many will simply skip this upgrade.

    'Giving them a chance' has nothing to do with me or you in a market sense. On the hand and in a criticism sense it has everything to do with literally everyone. It means waiting for the phones to actually ship before proclaiming them "massive failures".

    That's just common sense. They mail fail or they may succeed but we just don't (can't) know until they hit the market.

    You really need to stop carrying water for Huawei and the CCP. All the Chinese Government had to do was make a few changes to how they dealt with foreign companies and intelectual property, and Trump would have likely had the trade deal in place months ago. 

    Oh, and I'm thinking that you can't even afford to eat your own 5G dogfood, so you might want to tone your rant down a notch.

    And for the record, there has been yet another delay;

    https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/huawei/148979-huawei-mate-x-delay-launch-date
    Pointing out facts, regardless of how inconvenient those facts are, is not "carrying water".

    As for Trump's demands -- it is increasingly apparent all he wants is for China to open up its country for unrestricted access to Wall Street sharks and he's holding Huawei and the founder's daughter hostage to help accomplish that.  Regardless, China said NO!   And, in fact, began to hit him back hard.   As a result, Trump is folding his cards because he realizes this victim packs a punch and, aside from promising to cost him the 2020 election, no bullies like to deal with a victim that hits back.  But, even after he signs the surrender papers he'll claim victory and the cult will believe....
    Who better to leverage in a trade war than the CCP's own champion Huawei, and it's not like Huawei hasn't earned that honor.

    Surely Trump wouldn't be aware of those very close ties that Ren and Huawei have to the CCP...

    Oh, and those Hong Kong protests are having an effect on China as well, but mostly in the backlash that is happening in the free world. Republicans and Democrats coming together to support Hong Kong's current freedoms.
    edited September 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 65 of 97
    bellsbells Posts: 140member



    In a clear case of user error, some reviewers attempted to remove a protective screen layer thinking it was a screen protector, causing the sensitive flexible panel below to malfunction.



    Apparently it wasn’t that clear.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 97
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    MplsP said:

    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.
    Not really. If, say, Apple were to release a folding device, I very much doubt it will be based on this crap, and instead on their own internal R&D. But nice attempt at claiming are future products are beholden to your knockoffs. 

    And you people would blow your gaskets if Apple releases a $2,000 working prototype—I mean, first generation phone.
    So you’re trying to say that Apple is not looking at the Samsung Fold to see how Samsung implemented the technology, what works and what didn’t work? 

    If you’re right, than Apple is incredibly stupid. Fortunately I think Apple’s smarter than you are. 

    The original iPhone wasn’t revolutionary from a technology standpoint - there was nothing in it that hadn’t been done before. It was revolutionary in how it integrated the technology with the operating system to make it seem less and easy to use in a way no one had done before. The fact that Samsung was first (or among the first) to market with a folding phone is great. I don’t care about new, I care about good, well-designed and useful. 
    Seriously?  You don't think computer operating systems are technology?  Show me where the iPhone's original operating system was 'done before.'
    Palm -- which in many ways was superior.  The only thing iOS introduced was using your finger in place of a stylus.
    Uhm, that Apple created the operating system to do just that in an elegant way was in fact the innovation that became the disruption of all phones prior.


    LOL... isn't that (replacing a stylus with a finger) pretty much what I said?
    It's how Apple got there. 

    What ever happened to Palm anyway?

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2010/03/rip-palm-its-over-and-heres-why/

    You keep reiterating how Apple gets it wrong, yet your champion is dead. How can that be?
    Again:
    "LOL... isn't that (replacing a stylus with a finger) pretty much what I said?"

    Why do you keep creating strawmen to shoot down?   Are those the only arguments you can win?
  • Reply 67 of 97
    tmay said:
    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.


    It’s not a necessary first step. There has been almost no call for a large folding phone. This is simply a matter of prestige for Samsung, Huawei and others. They believe, wrongly, that whoever gets to be first will be on the historical record for that. But, in reality, what will happen is that the record will be talking instead about how the technology wasn’t ready, and how rash those companies were in their race for marketing purposes. These companies could have easily done more R&D to iron out these problems.

    If indeed these “fixes” improve the reliability and performance of this phone, it just shows that Samsung should have waited before attempting the first release. If, after some time, they do begin to fail again, it will show that they shouldn’t have released it at all, and should instead have continued R&D until these problems were completely resolved. If they found that they couldn’t completely resolve the issues, then they could have just not released the phone at all, and not embarrassed themselves for a second time since the first major blunder with the Note 7.

    while you continue to say that Huawei didn’t hold back their introduction in order to redesign some aspects of their phone, you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this. If their phone was spic and span, as you keep saying it is, without holding, or using one, of course, then Huawei would have had no reason to back out of their launch. But they did. They had the chance to be second, since another phone was at least shown, by, who was it again, Xiaomi? It doesn’t matter really, as all of them will fail in the marketplace, if not in your hand.

    and it’s not a matter of us giving it a chance. None of us here will be buying one, and that includes you. Giving it a chance means buying one.

    maybe some time from now, someone will get it right.
    This is where it all fell apart:

    "you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this"

    With hindsight we learn.

    The Mate X was delayed for these reasons:

    5G carrier calibration.
    Internal upgrades (as a result of the delay).

    Try as you might you cannot ignore these facts as they are straight from Huawei at an executive level.

    Also from an executive level was the affirmation that the time resulting from the delay would be used to improve some aspects of the initial model (mostly software related). The internal hardware upgrade was simply due to the model being released on a different point of the roadmap. Not due to 'problems'.

    On another level, Trump's interference also probably played a part.

    Now, I have already broken down your previous (completely unsubstantiated) claims in a previous thread where you went out on a limb to mention 'all' the problems the phone had had.

    How could you even possibly back that claim up for a phone that:

    1. Wasn't on the market
    2. Had had been subject to numerous hands on with zero problems reported.
    3. Has been the daily driver for numerous executives and engineers for the whole year.
    4. Has been in development for years.
    5. For which Richard Yu went on record as saying was market ready (if the market had been ready as planned - it wasn't due to carrier issues)

    I provided links for everything I said.

    You provided nothing.

    From 'all' the problems to zero problems. There's a big gap between those two.

    Huawei has no pressing desire to be first or second or third. It has a roadmap.

    The original roadmap was for an MWC reveal and a summer release. That couldn't happen as the carrier side wasn't ready. Then Trump waded in (some carriers weren't sure they would even be able to sell the phone) and with the resulting delay Huawei decided to majorly upgrade the internals of the phone (hence the tentative November release).

    I hope you can see that it is you who is wrong and not just a little wrong but utterly and soundly wrong.

    The Kirin 990 (the chip the phone will carry) will be presented tomorrow. At least one version of that chip will have an on-SoC 5G modem. This is major news. If all versions of the Kirin 990 have an on-board Balong 5G chip it will be even bigger news. We already know that the Huawei sub brand Honor will be launching a Kirin 990 5G chip before year end. That is going to represent A LOT of 5G equipped phones before year end from just one company. TSMC's 7mn/EUV output (Kirin 980/990/Ascend 910 etc plus A12/13 etc) may be a little stretched for a time.

    QC, MediaTek and Samsung will also be providing their own 5G solutions (QC has an IFA presentation just after Huawei) very soon (year end or shortly after).

    Right around these numerous 5G announcements Apple will present the iPhone 11 which (according to rumours) will not have a 5G capacity in any variant. 

    There are going to be a lot of marketing headwinds for Apple this year end and having not one but two foldable 5G phones released around the iPhone launch will simply serve to highlight Apple's lack of 5G options (if true, of course). Now if you were a regular iPhone purchaser on a three year upgrade cycle, looking at phones this Christmas, you would legitimately have some doubts. Just knowing that Apple is going to have an on SoC 5G in twelve of those 36 months (it is unthinkable they won't) will surely curb your desire to upgrade.

    I've said it before and will repeat it here. You can expect a marketing blitz for 5G that will make even the most fervent '5G meh!' proclaimers doubt. If the area where you live is earmarked for 5G, many will simply skip this upgrade.

    'Giving them a chance' has nothing to do with me or you in a market sense. On the hand and in a criticism sense it has everything to do with literally everyone. It means waiting for the phones to actually ship before proclaiming them "massive failures".

    That's just common sense. They mail fail or they may succeed but we just don't (can't) know until they hit the market.

    You really need to stop carrying water for Huawei and the CCP. All the Chinese Government had to do was make a few changes to how they dealt with foreign companies and intelectual property, and Trump would have likely had the trade deal in place months ago. 

    Oh, and I'm thinking that you can't even afford to eat your own 5G dogfood, so you might want to tone your rant down a notch.

    And for the record, there has been yet another delay;

    https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/huawei/148979-huawei-mate-x-delay-launch-date
    Pointing out facts, regardless of how inconvenient those facts are, is not "carrying water".

    As for Trump's demands -- it is increasingly apparent all he wants is for China to open up its country for unrestricted access to Wall Street sharks and he's holding Huawei and the founder's daughter hostage to help accomplish that.  Regardless, China said NO!   And, in fact, began to hit him back hard.   As a result, Trump is folding his cards because he realizes this victim packs a punch and, aside from promising to cost him the 2020 election, no bullies like to deal with a victim that hits back.  But, even after he signs the surrender papers he'll claim victory and the cult will believe....
    Who better to leverage in a trade war than the CCP's own champion Huawei, and it's not like Huawei hasn't earned that honor.

    ....
    The only ones who believe that nonsense are Trump and his cult.
  • Reply 68 of 97
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,418member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    MplsP said:

    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.
    Not really. If, say, Apple were to release a folding device, I very much doubt it will be based on this crap, and instead on their own internal R&D. But nice attempt at claiming are future products are beholden to your knockoffs. 

    And you people would blow your gaskets if Apple releases a $2,000 working prototype—I mean, first generation phone.
    So you’re trying to say that Apple is not looking at the Samsung Fold to see how Samsung implemented the technology, what works and what didn’t work? 

    If you’re right, than Apple is incredibly stupid. Fortunately I think Apple’s smarter than you are. 

    The original iPhone wasn’t revolutionary from a technology standpoint - there was nothing in it that hadn’t been done before. It was revolutionary in how it integrated the technology with the operating system to make it seem less and easy to use in a way no one had done before. The fact that Samsung was first (or among the first) to market with a folding phone is great. I don’t care about new, I care about good, well-designed and useful. 
    Seriously?  You don't think computer operating systems are technology?  Show me where the iPhone's original operating system was 'done before.'
    Palm -- which in many ways was superior.  The only thing iOS introduced was using your finger in place of a stylus.
    Uhm, that Apple created the operating system to do just that in an elegant way was in fact the innovation that became the disruption of all phones prior.


    LOL... isn't that (replacing a stylus with a finger) pretty much what I said?
    It's how Apple got there. 

    What ever happened to Palm anyway?

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2010/03/rip-palm-its-over-and-heres-why/

    You keep reiterating how Apple gets it wrong, yet your champion is dead. How can that be?
    Again:
    "LOL... isn't that (replacing a stylus with a finger) pretty much what I said?"

    Why do you keep creating strawmen to shoot down?   Are those the only arguments you can win?
    Gee, if that's all it was, why was it so hard for everyone else to do it first?

    I like how you oversimplify the difficulty of Apple implementing the multitouch feature, then have to come back and "Georgesplain" because other posters don't agree with that oversimplification, then complain when I note that Palm didn't survive much beyond the release of the iPhone, because the smartphone business is much more complicated than a single feature.

    In fact, the iPhone was such a disruption, that just about all of the existing smartphone leaders were killed off within a few years.
    edited September 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 69 of 97
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    edited September 2019 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 70 of 97
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,418member
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    "You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you"

    It's funny, but I had no specific troll in mind, yet you decided that you would cast yourself in the part.

    Bravo!

    Here's your statement, which belies critical thinking; "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6".

    Really? That's your "critical thinking"?

    Mostly, I don't give a shit about what goes on here, but I take exception to all of the posters who complain of Apple's lack of innovation, while also ignoring the facts of how much effort they put into their products, how well their business model works, and how much innovation Apple actually delivers to the customer. 

    For all of the "drang and sturm" that goes on here, it is easy to forget that Apple is extremely successful following its own path, and own pace.

    I would also note that I am a fan of a biological theory of evolution named "punctuated equilibrium", which I find suits Apple's evolution very well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    But of course, you will need "critical thinking" skills to figure out how that biological analog works for Apple.

    Oh, and for the record, dbad.
    edited September 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 71 of 97
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    MplsP said:

    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.
    Not really. If, say, Apple were to release a folding device, I very much doubt it will be based on this crap, and instead on their own internal R&D. But nice attempt at claiming are future products are beholden to your knockoffs. 

    And you people would blow your gaskets if Apple releases a $2,000 working prototype—I mean, first generation phone.
    So you’re trying to say that Apple is not looking at the Samsung Fold to see how Samsung implemented the technology, what works and what didn’t work? 

    If you’re right, than Apple is incredibly stupid. Fortunately I think Apple’s smarter than you are. 

    The original iPhone wasn’t revolutionary from a technology standpoint - there was nothing in it that hadn’t been done before. It was revolutionary in how it integrated the technology with the operating system to make it seem less and easy to use in a way no one had done before. The fact that Samsung was first (or among the first) to market with a folding phone is great. I don’t care about new, I care about good, well-designed and useful. 
    Seriously?  You don't think computer operating systems are technology?  Show me where the iPhone's original operating system was 'done before.'
    Palm -- which in many ways was superior.  The only thing iOS introduced was using your finger in place of a stylus.
    Uhm, that Apple created the operating system to do just that in an elegant way was in fact the innovation that became the disruption of all phones prior.


    LOL... isn't that (replacing a stylus with a finger) pretty much what I said?
    It's how Apple got there. 

    What ever happened to Palm anyway?

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2010/03/rip-palm-its-over-and-heres-why/

    You keep reiterating how Apple gets it wrong, yet your champion is dead. How can that be?
    Again:
    "LOL... isn't that (replacing a stylus with a finger) pretty much what I said?"

    Why do you keep creating strawmen to shoot down?   Are those the only arguments you can win?
    Gee, if that's all it was, why was it so hard for everyone else to do it first?

    I like how you oversimplify the difficulty of Apple implementing the multitouch feature, then have to come back and "Georgesplain" because other posters don't agree with that oversimplification, then complain when I note that Palm didn't survive much beyond the release of the iPhone, because the smartphone business is much more complicated than a single feature.

    In fact, the iPhone was such a disruption, that just about all of the existing smartphone leaders were killed off within a few years.
    You are still making stuff up that I supposedly said in order to prove you are right -- or maybe that I am wrong.

    So, let me try that!   You just said Apple is the most perfect company that ever existed or ever will.   And, YOU ARE WRONG!
    Hey!  That was easy!
    avon b7muthuk_vanalingamspice-boy
  • Reply 72 of 97
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,418member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    MplsP said:

    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.
    Not really. If, say, Apple were to release a folding device, I very much doubt it will be based on this crap, and instead on their own internal R&D. But nice attempt at claiming are future products are beholden to your knockoffs. 

    And you people would blow your gaskets if Apple releases a $2,000 working prototype—I mean, first generation phone.
    So you’re trying to say that Apple is not looking at the Samsung Fold to see how Samsung implemented the technology, what works and what didn’t work? 

    If you’re right, than Apple is incredibly stupid. Fortunately I think Apple’s smarter than you are. 

    The original iPhone wasn’t revolutionary from a technology standpoint - there was nothing in it that hadn’t been done before. It was revolutionary in how it integrated the technology with the operating system to make it seem less and easy to use in a way no one had done before. The fact that Samsung was first (or among the first) to market with a folding phone is great. I don’t care about new, I care about good, well-designed and useful. 
    Seriously?  You don't think computer operating systems are technology?  Show me where the iPhone's original operating system was 'done before.'
    Palm -- which in many ways was superior.  The only thing iOS introduced was using your finger in place of a stylus.
    Uhm, that Apple created the operating system to do just that in an elegant way was in fact the innovation that became the disruption of all phones prior.


    LOL... isn't that (replacing a stylus with a finger) pretty much what I said?
    It's how Apple got there. 

    What ever happened to Palm anyway?

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2010/03/rip-palm-its-over-and-heres-why/

    You keep reiterating how Apple gets it wrong, yet your champion is dead. How can that be?
    Again:
    "LOL... isn't that (replacing a stylus with a finger) pretty much what I said?"

    Why do you keep creating strawmen to shoot down?   Are those the only arguments you can win?
    Gee, if that's all it was, why was it so hard for everyone else to do it first?

    I like how you oversimplify the difficulty of Apple implementing the multitouch feature, then have to come back and "Georgesplain" because other posters don't agree with that oversimplification, then complain when I note that Palm didn't survive much beyond the release of the iPhone, because the smartphone business is much more complicated than a single feature.

    In fact, the iPhone was such a disruption, that just about all of the existing smartphone leaders were killed off within a few years.
    You are still making stuff up that I supposedly said in order to prove you are right -- or maybe that I am wrong.

    So, let me try that!   You just said Apple is the most perfect company that ever existed or ever will.   And, YOU ARE WRONG!
    Hey!  That was easy!
    Oh, you could have used your Sharpie for that retort...
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 73 of 97
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    "You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you"

    It's funny, but I had no specific troll in mind, yet you decided that you would cast yourself in the part.

    Bravo!

    Here's your statement, which belies critical thinking; "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6".

    Really? That's your "critical thinking"?

    Mostly, I don't give a shit about what goes on here, but I take exception to all of the posters who complain of Apple's lack of innovation, while also ignoring the facts of how much effort they put into their products, how well their business model works, and how much innovation Apple actually delivers to the customer. 

    For all of the "drang and sturm" that goes on here, it is easy to forget that Apple is extremely successful following its own path, and own pace.

    I would also note that I am a fan of a biological theory of evolution named "punctuated equilibrium", which I find suits Apple's evolution very well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    But of course, you will need "critical thinking" skills to figure out how that biological analog works for Apple.

    Oh, and for the record, dbad.
    Massive failure.
    "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6" This comment was a reply to "ericthehalfbee" after he called Samsungs not ready for primetime folding phone a "massive failure" Apple has given up on industrial design using the same form factor from the iPhone 6, the worst design ever for an iPhone. Ive left from due to Tim telling him to just change the colors and make room for another camera lens. The iMac form....... 8 or 9 year old? Everything Apple makes looks like they used the same recipe, rounded corners, slippery slick easy to drop and button sunk into rounded edges. 

    I'm in the design field (30 years) and I'm telling you outside appearances matter with consumer products, Apple has dropped the ball and it won't be too long before someone takes their crown. 
  • Reply 74 of 97
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,418member
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    "You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you"

    It's funny, but I had no specific troll in mind, yet you decided that you would cast yourself in the part.

    Bravo!

    Here's your statement, which belies critical thinking; "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6".

    Really? That's your "critical thinking"?

    Mostly, I don't give a shit about what goes on here, but I take exception to all of the posters who complain of Apple's lack of innovation, while also ignoring the facts of how much effort they put into their products, how well their business model works, and how much innovation Apple actually delivers to the customer. 

    For all of the "drang and sturm" that goes on here, it is easy to forget that Apple is extremely successful following its own path, and own pace.

    I would also note that I am a fan of a biological theory of evolution named "punctuated equilibrium", which I find suits Apple's evolution very well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    But of course, you will need "critical thinking" skills to figure out how that biological analog works for Apple.

    Oh, and for the record, dbad.
    Massive failure.
    "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6" This comment was a reply to "ericthehalfbee" after he called Samsungs not ready for primetime folding phone a "massive failure" Apple has given up on industrial design using the same form factor from the iPhone 6, the worst design ever for an iPhone. Ive left from due to Tim telling him to just change the colors and make room for another camera lens. The iMac form....... 8 or 9 year old? Everything Apple makes looks like they used the same recipe, rounded corners, slippery slick easy to drop and button sunk into rounded edges. 

    I'm in the design field (30 years) and I'm telling you outside appearances matter with consumer products, Apple has dropped the ball and it won't be too long before someone takes their crown. 
    So, you're an Industrial Designer? Then you would understand why Apple would be generating its product designs around a number of design themes. But you aren't an Industrial Designer.

    I'm trained as a Mechanical Engineer, but I earn my income manufacturing for other people. I agree with ericthehalfbee's take on Samsung's foldable not being ready for primetime, and version one was in fact a massive failure. Version two will likely be better, but I'm not seeing any of these foldable as robust in design as any smartphone. What's the rush?

    Your comments are certainly "provocative" for someone with 30 years "in the design field", but your comments don't actually demonstrate what you state.
    edited September 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 75 of 97
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,836member
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    "You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you"

    It's funny, but I had no specific troll in mind, yet you decided that you would cast yourself in the part.

    Bravo!

    Here's your statement, which belies critical thinking; "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6".

    Really? That's your "critical thinking"?

    Mostly, I don't give a shit about what goes on here, but I take exception to all of the posters who complain of Apple's lack of innovation, while also ignoring the facts of how much effort they put into their products, how well their business model works, and how much innovation Apple actually delivers to the customer. 

    For all of the "drang and sturm" that goes on here, it is easy to forget that Apple is extremely successful following its own path, and own pace.

    I would also note that I am a fan of a biological theory of evolution named "punctuated equilibrium", which I find suits Apple's evolution very well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    But of course, you will need "critical thinking" skills to figure out how that biological analog works for Apple.

    Oh, and for the record, dbad.
    Massive failure.
    "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6" This comment was a reply to "ericthehalfbee" after he called Samsungs not ready for primetime folding phone a "massive failure" Apple has given up on industrial design using the same form factor from the iPhone 6, the worst design ever for an iPhone. Ive left from due to Tim telling him to just change the colors and make room for another camera lens. The iMac form....... 8 or 9 year old? Everything Apple makes looks like they used the same recipe, rounded corners, slippery slick easy to drop and button sunk into rounded edges. 

    I'm in the design field (30 years) and I'm telling you outside appearances matter with consumer products, Apple has dropped the ball and it won't be too long before someone takes their crown. 
    So, you're an Industrial Designer? Then you would understand why Apple would be generating its product designs around a number of design themes. But you aren't an Industrial Designer.

    I'm trained as a Mechanical Engineer, but I earn my income manufacturing for other people. I agree with ericthehalfbee's take on Samsung's foldable not being ready for primetime, and version one was in fact a massive failure. Version two will likely be better, but I'm not seeing any of these foldable as robust in design as any smartphone. What's the rush?

    Your comments are certainly "provocative" for someone with 30 years "in the design field", but your comments don't actually demonstrate what you state.
    The rush? Huawei thinks that perhaps Samsung jumped the gun in rushing to announce their device first (ahead of Huawei) but other than that, there is no rush. That is now obvious to all.

    It was a PR disaster but it didn't reach the general public so, apart from the PR side, they got off lightly.

    Huawei was waiting on carriers, who ended up just a little slower than expected but there was no 'rush'. They both think the time is right. We will see.

    Eric was talking about the - revised - version (that is what the article is about) and it is a very premature comment. Until it gets into the hands of users we simply can't make those kinds of affirmations and fire them off as absolutes.

    As for Apple, yes, it has been pretty boring with designs since the iPhone 6. Like it or not, exterior design is important (or have you forgotten all the drooling over the jet black iPhone)? Rumours point to an attempt to be a little more daring this year. Last year they opened up the colour pallette again but, by and large, they lacked what their major competitors were delivering. These aspects count. Unfortunately, we may get a frosted finish but on a truly ugly camera bump, but I'm reserving final judgement for the actual release and not calling it a 'massive failure' prematurely. From what I've seen it is hideous but it is still only a mock-up.

    When compared to what Samsung and Huawei are doing, the basic same iPhone design looks dated and in part that is also due the lack of real change. I thought the new P30 Pro looked weird when I saw renders. I saw it live today and it looks beautiful with the Pixel styled two tone tone finish. The Mate 30 Pro renders (supposedly official) also look stunning. As do the S10 and Note 10.

    You may say styling is unimportant but we all know it is a key part of the package. Ironically, I think the Fold is also lacking in style but as Meatloaf might say 'two out of three ain't bad'.

    spice-boymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 76 of 97
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    "You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you"

    It's funny, but I had no specific troll in mind, yet you decided that you would cast yourself in the part.

    Bravo!

    Here's your statement, which belies critical thinking; "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6".

    Really? That's your "critical thinking"?

    Mostly, I don't give a shit about what goes on here, but I take exception to all of the posters who complain of Apple's lack of innovation, while also ignoring the facts of how much effort they put into their products, how well their business model works, and how much innovation Apple actually delivers to the customer. 

    For all of the "drang and sturm" that goes on here, it is easy to forget that Apple is extremely successful following its own path, and own pace.

    I would also note that I am a fan of a biological theory of evolution named "punctuated equilibrium", which I find suits Apple's evolution very well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    But of course, you will need "critical thinking" skills to figure out how that biological analog works for Apple.

    Oh, and for the record, dbad.
    Massive failure.
    "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6" This comment was a reply to "ericthehalfbee" after he called Samsungs not ready for primetime folding phone a "massive failure" Apple has given up on industrial design using the same form factor from the iPhone 6, the worst design ever for an iPhone. Ive left from due to Tim telling him to just change the colors and make room for another camera lens. The iMac form....... 8 or 9 year old? Everything Apple makes looks like they used the same recipe, rounded corners, slippery slick easy to drop and button sunk into rounded edges. 

    I'm in the design field (30 years) and I'm telling you outside appearances matter with consumer products, Apple has dropped the ball and it won't be too long before someone takes their crown. 
    So, you're an Industrial Designer? Then you would understand why Apple would be generating its product designs around a number of design themes. But you aren't an Industrial Designer.

    I'm trained as a Mechanical Engineer, but I earn my income manufacturing for other people. I agree with ericthehalfbee's take on Samsung's foldable not being ready for primetime, and version one was in fact a massive failure. Version two will likely be better, but I'm not seeing any of these foldable as robust in design as any smartphone. What's the rush?

    Your comments are certainly "provocative" for someone with 30 years "in the design field", but your comments don't actually demonstrate what you state.
    First off I said the Samsung phone were not ready for prime time not ericthehalfbee. Sorry my comments are "provocative" and perhaps they "triggered" you. My point with Samsung (look I never bought one of their products and most likely will never) is they are creating some interest by dragging out prototypes for everyone to see. It's the opposite of Apple's clenched asscheeks  tactic it also get's attention some people excited about that brand. 

    If you are a industrial designer you must see what I see that Apple's great design years are behind it now. How can you consider the last iPhone models since 6 as not being poorly designed. It has become quite apparent some years after Jobs that Apple no longer makes inspired designs but just good enough assembly line stuff. 
  • Reply 77 of 97
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,418member
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:
    spice-boy said:
    tmay said:

    spice-boy said:

    Massive failure.
    Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6
    What drugs are you on? Their A-series SoC are dramatically evolved since the 6. Computational photography, Low light video. TruTone. Underwater rated. OIS in the non-plus/max. Power efficiency. FaceID. Etc...

    Oh but it’s still a rectangle. Uh huh. 
    Completely missing from troll conversations is how Apple is the acknowledged leader in wearables, which are in fact, the alternatives to the current and future iPhone phone factor.
    Please identify who you are calling a "troll"?
    If you think that I am speaking of you specifically, then you might want to spend some time in self reflection, as to why I might think that.

    Some people here and I will include you are narrow minded and can only resort to name calling when they don't want to hear an opinion that challenges their undying love and devotion for all things Apple. Critical thinking will get you somewhere in life meaning outside of this cozy "Apple cultish" forum for starters. I will pay particular attention to you comments and monitor how much cool aid you drink daily. 
    "You're so vain, you probably think that post was about you"

    It's funny, but I had no specific troll in mind, yet you decided that you would cast yourself in the part.

    Bravo!

    Here's your statement, which belies critical thinking; "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6".

    Really? That's your "critical thinking"?

    Mostly, I don't give a shit about what goes on here, but I take exception to all of the posters who complain of Apple's lack of innovation, while also ignoring the facts of how much effort they put into their products, how well their business model works, and how much innovation Apple actually delivers to the customer. 

    For all of the "drang and sturm" that goes on here, it is easy to forget that Apple is extremely successful following its own path, and own pace.

    I would also note that I am a fan of a biological theory of evolution named "punctuated equilibrium", which I find suits Apple's evolution very well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    But of course, you will need "critical thinking" skills to figure out how that biological analog works for Apple.

    Oh, and for the record, dbad.
    Massive failure.
    "Yes they should stop innovating like Apple did after the iPhone 6" This comment was a reply to "ericthehalfbee" after he called Samsungs not ready for primetime folding phone a "massive failure" Apple has given up on industrial design using the same form factor from the iPhone 6, the worst design ever for an iPhone. Ive left from due to Tim telling him to just change the colors and make room for another camera lens. The iMac form....... 8 or 9 year old? Everything Apple makes looks like they used the same recipe, rounded corners, slippery slick easy to drop and button sunk into rounded edges. 

    I'm in the design field (30 years) and I'm telling you outside appearances matter with consumer products, Apple has dropped the ball and it won't be too long before someone takes their crown. 
    So, you're an Industrial Designer? Then you would understand why Apple would be generating its product designs around a number of design themes. But you aren't an Industrial Designer.

    I'm trained as a Mechanical Engineer, but I earn my income manufacturing for other people. I agree with ericthehalfbee's take on Samsung's foldable not being ready for primetime, and version one was in fact a massive failure. Version two will likely be better, but I'm not seeing any of these foldable as robust in design as any smartphone. What's the rush?

    Your comments are certainly "provocative" for someone with 30 years "in the design field", but your comments don't actually demonstrate what you state.
    First off I said the Samsung phone were not ready for prime time not ericthehalfbee. Sorry my comments are "provocative" and perhaps they "triggered" you. My point with Samsung (look I never bought one of their products and most likely will never) is they are creating some interest by dragging out prototypes for everyone to see. It's the opposite of Apple's clenched asscheeks  tactic it also get's attention some people excited about that brand. 

    If you are a industrial designer you must see what I see that Apple's great design years are behind it now. How can you consider the last iPhone models since 6 as not being poorly designed. It has become quite apparent some years after Jobs that Apple no longer makes inspired designs but just good enough assembly line stuff. 
    I'm not an Industrial Designer. I am trained as a mechanical engineer, and as an engineer I don't see that any of the iPhones since the 6 as poorly designed. What I see is that Apple is not the type of company that creates interest by dragging out a prototype, nor do they create Industrial Designs that are not synergistic with function.

    More to the point, your comments did not "trigger" me, a term you use as if you have some power over me. What I did see is that you haven't yet given details of why iPhones are so poorly designed, and it's quite obvious that you really don't even know why you don't like the iPhone. I'd guess that you are the type of person that wants change for change sake, not for any underlying benefit. You would be best off shopping in the Android OS device world as I'm sure you'll find exactly what you are lookkng for.

    Frankly, having a conversation with you is a huge waste of time.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 78 of 97
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,384member
    ivanh said:
    Disappointed by Apple in the last few years for minor tech improvement as “upgrades” each year but at total lost “replacement” costs, I’ll take a glimpse at this new Samsung device and consider to jump over to an Android machine.
    The upgrades to the iPhone over the years have been and continue to be huge and industry-leading, but if you don't use them they might seem "minor" to you, so I guess you think everyone else should feel the same way. Isn't that the definition of fake news? The improvements in the camera alone have been more than enough for me.

    So let me make sure I have this correct: you think the upgrades have been minor and you have broken your iPhone badly enough to need total replacement at least once out of warranty, BUT you'll spend $2,000+ on a experimental plastic-screen folding phone with known defects inherent to the material (like the creasing) even if they've managed to fix the myriad other issues (which nobody has confirmed)?

    Ooooo-kaaaayyy ...
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 79 of 97
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,573member
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.


    It’s not a necessary first step. There has been almost no call for a large folding phone. This is simply a matter of prestige for Samsung, Huawei and others. They believe, wrongly, that whoever gets to be first will be on the historical record for that. But, in reality, what will happen is that the record will be talking instead about how the technology wasn’t ready, and how rash those companies were in their race for marketing purposes. These companies could have easily done more R&D to iron out these problems.

    If indeed these “fixes” improve the reliability and performance of this phone, it just shows that Samsung should have waited before attempting the first release. If, after some time, they do begin to fail again, it will show that they shouldn’t have released it at all, and should instead have continued R&D until these problems were completely resolved. If they found that they couldn’t completely resolve the issues, then they could have just not released the phone at all, and not embarrassed themselves for a second time since the first major blunder with the Note 7.

    while you continue to say that Huawei didn’t hold back their introduction in order to redesign some aspects of their phone, you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this. If their phone was spic and span, as you keep saying it is, without holding, or using one, of course, then Huawei would have had no reason to back out of their launch. But they did. They had the chance to be second, since another phone was at least shown, by, who was it again, Xiaomi? It doesn’t matter really, as all of them will fail in the marketplace, if not in your hand.

    and it’s not a matter of us giving it a chance. None of us here will be buying one, and that includes you. Giving it a chance means buying one.

    maybe some time from now, someone will get it right.
    This is where it all fell apart:

    "you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this"

    With hindsight we learn.

    The Mate X was delayed for these reasons:

    5G carrier calibration.
    Internal upgrades (as a result of the delay).

    Try as you might you cannot ignore these facts as they are straight from Huawei at an executive level.

    Also from an executive level was the affirmation that the time resulting from the delay would be used to improve some aspects of the initial model (mostly software related). The internal hardware upgrade was simply due to the model being released on a different point of the roadmap. Not due to 'problems'.

    On another level, Trump's interference also probably played a part.

    Now, I have already broken down your previous (completely unsubstantiated) claims in a previous thread where you went out on a limb to mention 'all' the problems the phone had had.

    How could you even possibly back that claim up for a phone that:

    1. Wasn't on the market
    2. Had had been subject to numerous hands on with zero problems reported.
    3. Has been the daily driver for numerous executives and engineers for the whole year.
    4. Has been in development for years.
    5. For which Richard Yu went on record as saying was market ready (if the market had been ready as planned - it wasn't due to carrier issues)

    I provided links for everything I said.

    You provided nothing.

    From 'all' the problems to zero problems. There's a big gap between those two.

    Huawei has no pressing desire to be first or second or third. It has a roadmap.

    The original roadmap was for an MWC reveal and a summer release. That couldn't happen as the carrier side wasn't ready. Then Trump waded in (some carriers weren't sure they would even be able to sell the phone) and with the resulting delay Huawei decided to majorly upgrade the internals of the phone (hence the tentative November release).

    I hope you can see that it is you who is wrong and not just a little wrong but utterly and soundly wrong.

    The Kirin 990 (the chip the phone will carry) will be presented tomorrow. At least one version of that chip will have an on-SoC 5G modem. This is major news. If all versions of the Kirin 990 have an on-board Balong 5G chip it will be even bigger news. We already know that the Huawei sub brand Honor will be launching a Kirin 990 5G chip before year end. That is going to represent A LOT of 5G equipped phones before year end from just one company. TSMC's 7mn/EUV output (Kirin 980/990/Ascend 910 etc plus A12/13 etc) may be a little stretched for a time.

    QC, MediaTek and Samsung will also be providing their own 5G solutions (QC has an IFA presentation just after Huawei) very soon (year end or shortly after).

    Right around these numerous 5G announcements Apple will present the iPhone 11 which (according to rumours) will not have a 5G capacity in any variant. 

    There are going to be a lot of marketing headwinds for Apple this year end and having not one but two foldable 5G phones released around the iPhone launch will simply serve to highlight Apple's lack of 5G options (if true, of course). Now if you were a regular iPhone purchaser on a three year upgrade cycle, looking at phones this Christmas, you would legitimately have some doubts. Just knowing that Apple is going to have an on SoC 5G in twelve of those 36 months (it is unthinkable they won't) will surely curb your desire to upgrade.

    I've said it before and will repeat it here. You can expect a marketing blitz for 5G that will make even the most fervent '5G meh!' proclaimers doubt. If the area where you live is earmarked for 5G, many will simply skip this upgrade.

    'Giving them a chance' has nothing to do with me or you in a market sense. On the hand and in a criticism sense it has everything to do with literally everyone. It means waiting for the phones to actually ship before proclaiming them "massive failures".

    That's just common sense. They mail fail or they may succeed but we just don't (can't) know until they hit the market.

    You haven’t actually broken anything down other than you own claims. Yes indeed, hardware modifications.  Explain it away as much as you like.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 80 of 97
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,836member
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    There's no getting away from it. This is cutting edge technology and it doesn't matter how it plays out - today - from a technology perspective. This is first generation. A necessary first step. If there are to be more steps in this area, it will be thanks to these phones, both in terms of technology improvements and for price.

    Lessons will be learnt and we will all benefit. 

    Right now, these phones are only for those who have $2,000 of readily disposable income and I mean truly disposable. I very much doubt that any of the first gen Fold buyers are looking at a two year upgrade. They will upgrade as soon as there is a new one.

    Many of the people in this thread are almost willing it to fail. I prefer to at least give the thing a chance. I think we all should.


    It’s not a necessary first step. There has been almost no call for a large folding phone. This is simply a matter of prestige for Samsung, Huawei and others. They believe, wrongly, that whoever gets to be first will be on the historical record for that. But, in reality, what will happen is that the record will be talking instead about how the technology wasn’t ready, and how rash those companies were in their race for marketing purposes. These companies could have easily done more R&D to iron out these problems.

    If indeed these “fixes” improve the reliability and performance of this phone, it just shows that Samsung should have waited before attempting the first release. If, after some time, they do begin to fail again, it will show that they shouldn’t have released it at all, and should instead have continued R&D until these problems were completely resolved. If they found that they couldn’t completely resolve the issues, then they could have just not released the phone at all, and not embarrassed themselves for a second time since the first major blunder with the Note 7.

    while you continue to say that Huawei didn’t hold back their introduction in order to redesign some aspects of their phone, you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this. If their phone was spic and span, as you keep saying it is, without holding, or using one, of course, then Huawei would have had no reason to back out of their launch. But they did. They had the chance to be second, since another phone was at least shown, by, who was it again, Xiaomi? It doesn’t matter really, as all of them will fail in the marketplace, if not in your hand.

    and it’s not a matter of us giving it a chance. None of us here will be buying one, and that includes you. Giving it a chance means buying one.

    maybe some time from now, someone will get it right.
    This is where it all fell apart:

    "you’re just wrong. You’re not even thinking clearly on this"

    With hindsight we learn.

    The Mate X was delayed for these reasons:

    5G carrier calibration.
    Internal upgrades (as a result of the delay).

    Try as you might you cannot ignore these facts as they are straight from Huawei at an executive level.

    Also from an executive level was the affirmation that the time resulting from the delay would be used to improve some aspects of the initial model (mostly software related). The internal hardware upgrade was simply due to the model being released on a different point of the roadmap. Not due to 'problems'.

    On another level, Trump's interference also probably played a part.

    Now, I have already broken down your previous (completely unsubstantiated) claims in a previous thread where you went out on a limb to mention 'all' the problems the phone had had.

    How could you even possibly back that claim up for a phone that:

    1. Wasn't on the market
    2. Had had been subject to numerous hands on with zero problems reported.
    3. Has been the daily driver for numerous executives and engineers for the whole year.
    4. Has been in development for years.
    5. For which Richard Yu went on record as saying was market ready (if the market had been ready as planned - it wasn't due to carrier issues)

    I provided links for everything I said.

    You provided nothing.

    From 'all' the problems to zero problems. There's a big gap between those two.

    Huawei has no pressing desire to be first or second or third. It has a roadmap.

    The original roadmap was for an MWC reveal and a summer release. That couldn't happen as the carrier side wasn't ready. Then Trump waded in (some carriers weren't sure they would even be able to sell the phone) and with the resulting delay Huawei decided to majorly upgrade the internals of the phone (hence the tentative November release).

    I hope you can see that it is you who is wrong and not just a little wrong but utterly and soundly wrong.

    The Kirin 990 (the chip the phone will carry) will be presented tomorrow. At least one version of that chip will have an on-SoC 5G modem. This is major news. If all versions of the Kirin 990 have an on-board Balong 5G chip it will be even bigger news. We already know that the Huawei sub brand Honor will be launching a Kirin 990 5G chip before year end. That is going to represent A LOT of 5G equipped phones before year end from just one company. TSMC's 7mn/EUV output (Kirin 980/990/Ascend 910 etc plus A12/13 etc) may be a little stretched for a time.

    QC, MediaTek and Samsung will also be providing their own 5G solutions (QC has an IFA presentation just after Huawei) very soon (year end or shortly after).

    Right around these numerous 5G announcements Apple will present the iPhone 11 which (according to rumours) will not have a 5G capacity in any variant. 

    There are going to be a lot of marketing headwinds for Apple this year end and having not one but two foldable 5G phones released around the iPhone launch will simply serve to highlight Apple's lack of 5G options (if true, of course). Now if you were a regular iPhone purchaser on a three year upgrade cycle, looking at phones this Christmas, you would legitimately have some doubts. Just knowing that Apple is going to have an on SoC 5G in twelve of those 36 months (it is unthinkable they won't) will surely curb your desire to upgrade.

    I've said it before and will repeat it here. You can expect a marketing blitz for 5G that will make even the most fervent '5G meh!' proclaimers doubt. If the area where you live is earmarked for 5G, many will simply skip this upgrade.

    'Giving them a chance' has nothing to do with me or you in a market sense. On the hand and in a criticism sense it has everything to do with literally everyone. It means waiting for the phones to actually ship before proclaiming them "massive failures".

    That's just common sense. They mail fail or they may succeed but we just don't (can't) know until they hit the market.

    You haven’t actually broken anything down other than you own claims. Yes indeed, hardware modifications.  Explain it away as much as you like.
    Because what I said reflects reality as stated by Huawei executives.

    That's why I can support what I say with links to their quoted statements.

    Where are 'all' the problems you spoke about last time? You even claimed the Mate X was thicker than the fold.

    You are telling someone they are 'clearly wrong' without providing a shred of supporting documentation when you have already been given a raft of links proving otherwise.

    As for 'explaining away', that's what you tried to do with the claim that the Mate X was thicker than the Fold, eventually trying to justify the incorrect claim by saying it was thicker 'on average'.

    And 'yes indeed, hardware modifications' is quoting yourself out of context. You claimed that Huawei had delayed the release to make hardware modifications. That is wrong. The delay itself was the cause of those hardware modifications. As I mentioned in the other thread, another Mate X variant was on the
    cards for next year. With the original release slipping, they chose to upgrade the
     phone with some aspects from the coming phone (Kirin 990 included) which resulted in a slightly longer delay (November). There was little point releasing only a Kirin 980 Mate X in the same month that the Kirin 990 was released.
    edited September 2019
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