Lithium and Cobalt come from various sources around the world, I have no idea if all these mines regions use the most ethical methods, but Congo is not the only source.
Grant it Congo is number 1 for Cobalt, but there is lots of other sources. China is the largest investor in the Congo for mining keep this in mind.
There is no proof Apple or any of these company actually source out of the Congo. The problem is many time the minerals from many regions get combined during the entire supply chain process. Even if Apple required their supplier not to use Congo sources minerals it becomes very hard to isolate the Congo materials. One way Apple and many companies use to monitor if Congo minerals show up in their supply chain is to test material for radio isotopes since each region of the world have specific isotopes in their minerals. But if any supply chain at any time had Congo minerals or neighboring countries in there supply, it will contaminate the entire supply chain's isotopes. Using these markers is only good if the supply chain never had Congo minerals.
They are suing Apple since it get clicks and create outrage in the outrage culture. Since they would have to prove Apple supply chain specifically sources out of the Congo. I personally suspect Apple and other US companies requires its supply chain not to specifically source out the Congo due to the Current US required on the Conflict Mineral reports requirements each year. We know that Apple has been focused on responsible sourcing for many years even before the Conflict Mineral requirement came in 4 yrs ago.
The companies actually digging the cobalt out of the ground include Glencore (UK-based mining conglomerate) and a Chinese company. The cobalt is then sold to a Brussels-based company and then sold on to manufacturers. Apple and Google etc. are actually third in line... Now abusive practices are abusive practices but Apple is probably not responsible here any more than BAE Systems or the many 'defence' industries in the US can be sued for the killing done with the products they manufacture. Although the case would probably be stronger there - lithium batteries do have a 'peaceful' application whereas a Cruise missile or a military jet have little use outside the military whose core business is fighting and, inevitably, killing. Bizarrely, Glencore's website talks a lot about 'transparency' and 'responsible sourcing'. Its almost as if you couldn't trust them ...
Just to be clear this is article reporting on another article on this topic, it does not have first hand knowledge on the topic. On top of that its source is a Bloomberg article and we all know Bloomberg has serious biases towards Apple so read it with skepticism. Apple my be looking to direct source minerals going into its products to address the entire supply chain challenge I pointed out above. If that is the case they could be working around the world to find a source they trust which could be in the Congo as well since not all mines operate unethically. So the article could be write that apple is trying to solve the problem or its just part of the problem.
If this guy Terrence Collingsworth is so cared of younger people working and making living to feed themselves and family than he should give his own money to them. If he is lawyer than must not be making enough living.
You realize that child labor is banned in all western nations? I hope you consider sending your children to work in such conditions because you believes that its fine for others.
9to5Mac has a discussion thread/poll going asking the question what political position or line would Apple have to cross to make you stop buying their products.
Better vote they way they want you to or else they'll shadow ban you.
I'm sorry you were shadow banned, that should never happen to a white man in America.
There is a large problem with child labor and exploitive labor practices in many parts of the world and it extends far beyond Apple or high technology companies or the mining of cobalt.
There are expensive shoes, shirts, and other clothing sold in the US that is made in Vietnam by child labor working 12 hour shifts in factories without air conditioning fo wages well under $1 an hour. That simply should not be.
Consumers have been encouraged to never ask where does my $5 garment come from and how is it possible, The answer is slave labor.
No, not like kids on family run farms. Holy shit man...
Are you saying it is okay for kids to work on farms just because it is family run.
People need to stop being outrages, I worked since I was 5 in number of family businesses and today I have great work ethic and I have seen no harm from it. One of the benefits of working when I was kid I got paid, and had money to spend my friends could not say the same. I work not to help the family make ends meet so we did not have to pay someone else to do what us kids could do.
Also there are lots of kids working around doing lots of various things. Part of the reason kids work is due to family forcing their kids to work since its the only way the family can make enough money to survey.
BTW there are lots of kids working in mining all over the world, every watch Gold Rush, Parker was working in mine since he was 5, unclear he got paid until we ran the mine himself at 16. Tony Beets kids all work in his mining operations since they were teenagers. There is good and bad examples of kids working. Also all the Amish around the US have their kids working at the age of 16 and younger and they are not always family businesses. BTW when kids in the Amish communities work, they do not get paid it goes to the parents of the kids.
No, not like kids on family run farms. Holy shit man...
My grandfather used to send his sons (my mother’s brothers, my uncles) out to other farms to work. The pay would come directly to him and my uncles never saw a dime. But they had room and board and also worked on the family farm so,,,
I personally suspect Apple and other US companies requires its supply chain not to specifically source out the Congo due to the Current US required on the Conflict Mineral reports requirements each year. We know that Apple has been focused on responsible sourcing for many years even before the Conflict Mineral requirement came in 4 yrs ago.
Cobalt is not one of the "conflict minerals" they are required to report on apparently. According to their latest Disclosure Form SD filed with the SEC only tantalum, tin,
and tungsten are addressed.
If this guy Terrence Collingsworth is so cared of younger people working and making living to feed themselves and family than he should give his own money to them. If he is lawyer than must not be making enough living.
The lawsuit may be a bunch of BS, but your position that lawyers should fix their clients' problems using their own money is utterly ridiculous.
I personally suspect Apple and other US companies requires its supply chain not to specifically source out the Congo due to the Current US required on the Conflict Mineral reports requirements each year. We know that Apple has been focused on responsible sourcing for many years even before the Conflict Mineral requirement came in 4 yrs ago.
Cobalt is not one of the "conflict minerals" they are required to report on apparently. According to their latest Disclosure Form SD filed with the SEC only tantalum, tin,
and tungsten are addressed.
I know that, and most companies I have worked with who have to deal with this due to the reporting required and learned of the issue have chosen to avoid any mineral coming from these regions because the government at any time can add additional minerals. It is no different with RoHS some company just collect the RoHS substances content and others choose to take it further and collect all the mineral in their products and report on all the content not just the current banded RoHS substances. Apple has the resources to track all this, so I suspect they not doing the minimal requirement they took it to the next level which is above the regulations.
If this guy Terrence Collingsworth is so cared of younger people working and making living to feed themselves and family than he should give his own money to them. If he is lawyer than must not be making enough living.
You realize that child labor is banned in all western nations? I hope you consider sending your children to work in such conditions because you believes that its fine for others.
Child labor is not "banned" in any western nation. In the US, children between 14 and 16 can work limited hours in certain occupations, and children over the age of 16 can work unlimited hours in certain occupations. A significant number of part time workers in fast food and retail are under the age of 18.
The US is one of the most restrictive, In Canada, children as young as 12 can work with similar restrictions on the nature of work and number of hours.
In the European Union, children over the age of 14 can work.
If this guy Terrence Collingsworth is so cared of younger people working and making living to feed themselves and family than he should give his own money to them. If he is lawyer than must not be making enough living.
You realize that child labor is banned in all western nations? I hope you consider sending your children to work in such conditions because you believes that its fine for others.
Child labor is not "banned" in any western nation. In the US, children between 14 and 16 can work limited hours in certain occupations, and children over the age of 16 can work unlimited hours in certain occupations. A significant number of part time workers in fast food and retail are under the age of 18.
The US is one of the most restrictive, In Canada, children as young as 12 can work with similar restrictions on the nature of work and number of hours.
In the European Union, children over the age of 14 can work.
Not all US Labor restriction apply to Family/small businesses as well as the Amish. There are many US laws and restriction that do not apply to the Amish in America and other similar communities. So there could be milk, meat and other food products people consume which have some level of child labor involved from these communities in the US.
Lithium and Cobalt come from various sources around the world, I have no idea if all these mines regions use the most ethical methods, but Congo is not the only source.
Grant it Congo is number 1 for Cobalt, but there is lots of other sources. China is the largest investor in the Congo for mining keep this in mind.
There is no proof Apple or any of these company actually source out of the Congo. The problem is many time the minerals from many regions get combined during the entire supply chain process. Even if Apple required their supplier not to use Congo sources minerals it becomes very hard to isolate the Congo materials. One way Apple and many companies use to monitor if Congo minerals show up in their supply chain is to test material for radio isotopes since each region of the world have specific isotopes in their minerals. But if any supply chain at any time had Congo minerals or neighboring countries in there supply, it will contaminate the entire supply chain's isotopes. Using these markers is only good if the supply chain never had Congo minerals.
They are suing Apple since it get clicks and create outrage in the outrage culture. Since they would have to prove Apple supply chain specifically sources out of the Congo. I personally suspect Apple and other US companies requires its supply chain not to specifically source out the Congo due to the Current US required on the Conflict Mineral reports requirements each year. We know that Apple has been focused on responsible sourcing for many years even before the Conflict Mineral requirement came in 4 yrs ago.
“Outrage culture”...? It’s all just the same to you? Child labor, sexual assault, slave wages, racism... It’s all just an undesirable irritation to you? We should all just allow every unethical and abusive act to go on and on, so that there’s none of this bothersome outrage for you to know about?
I’ve heard it said that “If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention”.
I’ll offer a variation: “If you’re not outraged, it’s because you’re too comfortable with your own unrecognized privilege, or you’re just plain callous.”
Then there’s this one: “All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.”
I’ll offer up this variation: “Nothing bad gets fixed when people are bullied into silence by contentment culture”.
Not sure what's sad about it. My first job was when I was 14. I learned the value of money and hard work.
Context matters. I’m sure you weren’t forced into hard labor, like toxic and accident-prone mining.
Then again, me standing among and directing cars in parking lots for an amusement park, in the sun, for hours at a time, at age 15 was probably dangerous and toxic (the rock dust I blew from my nose each evening, the car exhaust we all breathed in, the constant sun exposure, being on our feet mostly standing for 8 hours, and several of my coworkers getting hit by cars driven by patrons who didn’t want to go where we directed them).
It was perfectly legal.
As for the value of money and hard work, it paid poorly (part-time “summer help” work was below minimum wage), the work was meaningless (better lot management would’ve solved the need for us to point cars around), and we all knew we were being exploited as cheap labor and knew that management didn’t give a shit about us. It taught us that corporations were callous and indifferent to their employees.
This is all still not slavery. If I was forced to work, it was by my dad, not because I couldn’t live otherwise. I wasn’t under the gun of having to work to feed my family, as a child.
Lithium and Cobalt come from various sources around the world, I have no idea if all these mines regions use the most ethical methods, but Congo is not the only source.
Grant it Congo is number 1 for Cobalt, but there is lots of other sources. China is the largest investor in the Congo for mining keep this in mind.
There is no proof Apple or any of these company actually source out of the Congo. The problem is many time the minerals from many regions get combined during the entire supply chain process. Even if Apple required their supplier not to use Congo sources minerals it becomes very hard to isolate the Congo materials. One way Apple and many companies use to monitor if Congo minerals show up in their supply chain is to test material for radio isotopes since each region of the world have specific isotopes in their minerals. But if any supply chain at any time had Congo minerals or neighboring countries in there supply, it will contaminate the entire supply chain's isotopes. Using these markers is only good if the supply chain never had Congo minerals.
They are suing Apple since it get clicks and create outrage in the outrage culture. Since they would have to prove Apple supply chain specifically sources out of the Congo. I personally suspect Apple and other US companies requires its supply chain not to specifically source out the Congo due to the Current US required on the Conflict Mineral reports requirements each year. We know that Apple has been focused on responsible sourcing for many years even before the Conflict Mineral requirement came in 4 yrs ago.
“Outrage culture”...? It’s all just the same to you? Child labor, sexual assault, slave wages, racism... It’s all just an undesirable irritation to you? We should all just allow every unethical and abusive act to go on and on, so that there’s none of this bothersome outrage for you to know about?
I’ve heard it said that “If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention”.
I’ll offer a variation: “If you’re not outraged, it’s because you’re too comfortable with your own unrecognized privilege, or you’re just plain callous.”
Then there’s this one: “All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.”
I’ll offer up this variation: “Nothing bad gets fixed when people are bullied into silence by contentment culture”.
You're outrage because you are just finding out about this, because you did not have your eyes open all along. If you had a good history class, you would have learned child labor has been part of developing societies since the beginning of time and still exist today. For all you know your favorite Chinese restaurant most likely uses child labor. Most of what you have today in the US was build on the backs of lots of people doing what they had to do to get ahead including their kids. I feel sorry for you if you never works as kid, I did and had too it was not open to debate so I am far from privilege. Think about your privilege if you never had to work as kids. At least I recognize and experience what lots of people and families are doing to keep their heads above water.
There is also a saying do not get angry get even, otherwise, known as it is waste to be angry use the energy in productive ways. Stop being outrage, do something about it, attacking Apple is not the solution, get on the Plane and go to the Congo and change how families have to live that forces them to put their kids in a mine. You realize even if Apple does not source in the Congo the mines will continue to operate with kids in it, you may feel good since your iPhone is not contaminated with child labor, but kids continue to die in the mines. BTW I have been to third world countries and have been inside third world operations and I had been on the look out for things which are not ethical in a first world sense. In the third world they do not understand why we are trying to take the means of their surviving away. It is matter of perspective and not an easy problem to solve.
A year ago I walked in to a plant and definitely saw people under 18 working they were 14 to be exactly. I questioned it and was informed the parents signed the work wavier which is required by state law. These kids was working full time and was no longer in school since the parent pulled the kids out of school after completing 8th grade which again is allowed under US & State law, and these kids entire pay check goes to the parents. So do you force this company not to hire 14 yrs old and take the means away from these families to earn enough money or do you make sure the company does not take advantage of the kids. This company was following the laws.
You can take the business away from this company, they lay off the kids and the other workers than the entire family suffer. Which things do you want to be fell angry about, the fact kids work and learning a trade, or they fact father can not make enough to take care of the family and refuses government service or take things from others for free and has their kids working at 14.
I don't know whether including Google is valid or not. For Google's part they've acknowledged the serious child labor problem in the Congo and since at least 2016 have been monetarily assisting the effort to eradicate this issue in the mines there. https://sustainability.google/projects/children-out-of-mining/
But including Apple is valid?
But he found and posted a google link! That settles it, right?
Lithium and Cobalt come from various sources around the world, I have no idea if all these mines regions use the most ethical methods, but Congo is not the only source.
Grant it Congo is number 1 for Cobalt, but there is lots of other sources. China is the largest investor in the Congo for mining keep this in mind.
There is no proof Apple or any of these company actually source out of the Congo. The problem is many time the minerals from many regions get combined during the entire supply chain process. Even if Apple required their supplier not to use Congo sources minerals it becomes very hard to isolate the Congo materials. One way Apple and many companies use to monitor if Congo minerals show up in their supply chain is to test material for radio isotopes since each region of the world have specific isotopes in their minerals. But if any supply chain at any time had Congo minerals or neighboring countries in there supply, it will contaminate the entire supply chain's isotopes. Using these markers is only good if the supply chain never had Congo minerals.
They are suing Apple since it get clicks and create outrage in the outrage culture. Since they would have to prove Apple supply chain specifically sources out of the Congo. I personally suspect Apple and other US companies requires its supply chain not to specifically source out the Congo due to the Current US required on the Conflict Mineral reports requirements each year. We know that Apple has been focused on responsible sourcing for many years even before the Conflict Mineral requirement came in 4 yrs ago.
“Outrage culture”...? It’s all just the same to you? Child labor, sexual assault, slave wages, racism... It’s all just an undesirable irritation to you? We should all just allow every unethical and abusive act to go on and on, so that there’s none of this bothersome outrage for you to know about?
I’ve heard it said that “If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention”.
I’ll offer a variation: “If you’re not outraged, it’s because you’re too comfortable with your own unrecognized privilege, or you’re just plain callous.”
Then there’s this one: “All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.”
I’ll offer up this variation: “Nothing bad gets fixed when people are bullied into silence by contentment culture”.
You're outrage because you are just finding out about this, because you did not have your eyes open all along. Stop being outrage, do something about it...
A year ago I walked in to a plant and definitely saw people under 18 working they were 14 to be exactly. I questioned it and was informed the parents signed the work wavier which is required by state law. These kids was working full time and was no longer in school since the parent pulled the kids out of school after completing 8th grade which again is allowed under US & State law, and these kids entire pay check goes to the parents. So do you force this company not to hire 14 yrs old and take the means away from these families to earn enough money or do you make sure the company does not take advantage of the kids. This company was following the laws.
Then as a responsible adult YOU should take action.
If what you say is true then the factory was acting illegally and you're letting them get by it. Period.
Working full-time in a factory at the age of 14 is illegal in every US State, no question. So I'll suggest that what you are claiming did not happen, at best you were mistaken, and if not you are being complicit with your silence. Robbing children of an education thus almost ensuring that the poverty cycle will continue in return for a pittance minimum wage paycheck now is not acceptable. https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/youthlabor/agerequirements
Not sure what's sad about it. My first job was when I was 14. I learned the value of money and hard work.
Were you deep underground mining minerals with next to no safety precautions? Because that’s what we’re talking about here, not working at the family restaurant or farm.
If this guy Terrence Collingsworth is so cared of younger people working and making living to feed themselves and family than he should give his own money to them. If he is lawyer than must not be making enough living.
You realize that child labor is banned in all western nations? I hope you consider sending your children to work in such conditions because you believes that its fine for others.
So is it them working at such a young age or the conditions that make it wrong? Once upon a time kids had to work here and other countries out of necessity. Father dies suddenly oldest brother goes to work to help the family survive.
Family earnings from quarrying may be barely sufficient to cover basic
needs and money earned by children can be an important part of a
household’s income. It may even mean the difference between eating and
not eating on a given day.
Do I agree with kids having to risk their lives to work long hours and risk being exposed to god know what in the air absolutely not.. These big companies should be using their influence and make a HUGE effort to not use anything that comes from these children's blood, sweat and tears . but unfortunately there is still a need for families to survive so I think this practice will never end. It's a sad vicious cycle. Some people even see it as imposing western will in places that we shouldn't. Make the conditions safe, but allow kids to still earn and help their family.
It all seems INSANE to me, Kids should learn and relax and have fun whenever possible... but I have also come to realize the whole planet doesn't operate the same or have the same morals as we do here in the USA or other Westernized countries.
Do parents whose offspring work love their kids any less? No. Many of
these children work simply to make their families’ ends meet, poor
families whose income is around the subsistence level often have little
choice. We easily forget that child labour was commonplace in western
societies before they were affluent. For instance, nearly half of the workforce in British cotton mills in the early 19th century consisted of children.
Comments
Lithium and Cobalt come from various sources around the world, I have no idea if all these mines regions use the most ethical methods, but Congo is not the only source.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-top-lithium-producing-countries-in-the-world.html
https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/battery-metals-investing/cobalt-investing/top-cobalt-producing-countries-congo-china-canada-russia-australia/
Grant it Congo is number 1 for Cobalt, but there is lots of other sources. China is the largest investor in the Congo for mining keep this in mind.
There is no proof Apple or any of these company actually source out of the Congo. The problem is many time the minerals from many regions get combined during the entire supply chain process. Even if Apple required their supplier not to use Congo sources minerals it becomes very hard to isolate the Congo materials. One way Apple and many companies use to monitor if Congo minerals show up in their supply chain is to test material for radio isotopes since each region of the world have specific isotopes in their minerals. But if any supply chain at any time had Congo minerals or neighboring countries in there supply, it will contaminate the entire supply chain's isotopes. Using these markers is only good if the supply chain never had Congo minerals.
They are suing Apple since it get clicks and create outrage in the outrage culture. Since they would have to prove Apple supply chain specifically sources out of the Congo. I personally suspect Apple and other US companies requires its supply chain not to specifically source out the Congo due to the Current US required on the Conflict Mineral reports requirements each year. We know that Apple has been focused on responsible sourcing for many years even before the Conflict Mineral requirement came in 4 yrs ago.
I'm sorry you were shadow banned, that should never happen to a white man in America.
Consumers have been encouraged to never ask where does my $5 garment come from and how is it possible, The answer is slave labor.
Are you saying it is okay for kids to work on farms just because it is family run.
People need to stop being outrages, I worked since I was 5 in number of family businesses and today I have great work ethic and I have seen no harm from it. One of the benefits of working when I was kid I got paid, and had money to spend my friends could not say the same. I work not to help the family make ends meet so we did not have to pay someone else to do what us kids could do.
Also there are lots of kids working around doing lots of various things. Part of the reason kids work is due to family forcing their kids to work since its the only way the family can make enough money to survey.
BTW there are lots of kids working in mining all over the world, every watch Gold Rush, Parker was working in mine since he was 5, unclear he got paid until we ran the mine himself at 16. Tony Beets kids all work in his mining operations since they were teenagers. There is good and bad examples of kids working. Also all the Amish around the US have their kids working at the age of 16 and younger and they are not always family businesses. BTW when kids in the Amish communities work, they do not get paid it goes to the parents of the kids.
https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple-Conflict-Minerals-Report.pdf
Not sure what's sad about it. My first job was when I was 14. I learned the value of money and hard work.
The US is one of the most restrictive, In Canada, children as young as 12 can work with similar restrictions on the nature of work and number of hours.
In the European Union, children over the age of 14 can work.
I’ve heard it said that “If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention”.
I’ll offer a variation: “If you’re not outraged, it’s because you’re too comfortable with your own unrecognized privilege, or you’re just plain callous.”
Then there’s this one: “All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.”
I’ll offer up this variation: “Nothing bad gets fixed when people are bullied into silence by contentment culture”.
Context matters. I’m sure you weren’t forced into hard labor, like toxic and accident-prone mining.
Then again, me standing among and directing cars in parking lots for an amusement park, in the sun, for hours at a time, at age 15 was probably dangerous and toxic (the rock dust I blew from my nose each evening, the car exhaust we all breathed in, the constant sun exposure, being on our feet mostly standing for 8 hours, and several of my coworkers getting hit by cars driven by patrons who didn’t want to go where we directed them).
It was perfectly legal.
As for the value of money and hard work, it paid poorly (part-time “summer help” work was below minimum wage), the work was meaningless (better lot management would’ve solved the need for us to point cars around), and we all knew we were being exploited as cheap labor and knew that management didn’t give a shit about us. It taught us that corporations were callous and indifferent to their employees.
This is all still not slavery. If I was forced to work, it was by my dad, not because I couldn’t live otherwise. I wasn’t under the gun of having to work to feed my family, as a child.
There is also a saying do not get angry get even, otherwise, known as it is waste to be angry use the energy in productive ways. Stop being outrage, do something about it, attacking Apple is not the solution, get on the Plane and go to the Congo and change how families have to live that forces them to put their kids in a mine. You realize even if Apple does not source in the Congo the mines will continue to operate with kids in it, you may feel good since your iPhone is not contaminated with child labor, but kids continue to die in the mines. BTW I have been to third world countries and have been inside third world operations and I had been on the look out for things which are not ethical in a first world sense. In the third world they do not understand why we are trying to take the means of their surviving away. It is matter of perspective and not an easy problem to solve.
A year ago I walked in to a plant and definitely saw people under 18 working they were 14 to be exactly. I questioned it and was informed the parents signed the work wavier which is required by state law. These kids was working full time and was no longer in school since the parent pulled the kids out of school after completing 8th grade which again is allowed under US & State law, and these kids entire pay check goes to the parents. So do you force this company not to hire 14 yrs old and take the means away from these families to earn enough money or do you make sure the company does not take advantage of the kids. This company was following the laws.
You can take the business away from this company, they lay off the kids and the other workers than the entire family suffer. Which things do you want to be fell angry about, the fact kids work and learning a trade, or they fact father can not make enough to take care of the family and refuses government service or take things from others for free and has their kids working at 14.
If what you say is true then the factory was acting illegally and you're letting them get by it. Period.
Working full-time in a factory at the age of 14 is illegal in every US State, no question. So I'll suggest that what you are claiming did not happen, at best you were mistaken, and if not you are being complicit with your silence. Robbing children of an education thus almost ensuring that the poverty cycle will continue in return for a pittance minimum wage paycheck now is not acceptable.
https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/youthlabor/agerequirements