Jury rules Apple must pay WiLAN $85M for patent infringement

AppleInsider · January 25, 2020 3:58PM

A jury in San Diego has ruled that Apple must pay Quarterhill Inc.'s WiLAN $85 million in royalties for infringing patents in a retrial of a case from 2018.

The case dates back to 2014, when WiLAN put Apple on notice for infringing on six patents with its iPhone and iPad products. The intellectual property included in WiLAN's accusation belonged to the same patent family as a separate patent at issue in a Florida case pending at the time, Apple argued in its bid for a finding of non-infringement.

Both patents, one for a "Method and Apparatus for Bandwidth Request/Grant Protocols in a Wireless Communication System" and another for "Adaptive Call Admission Control for Use in a Wireless Communication System," targeted Apple's iPhone.

In 2018, Apple had been ordered to pay WiLAN over $140 million for the infringements. In 2019, the payout had been slashed to $10M, after WiLAN and Apple could not agree on what damages were owed.

The court offered WiLAN a choice of either accepting reduced damages to the amount of $10 million, or to prepare for a new trial, one that would only determine the amount of damages owed, since the infringement has been upheld. WiLAN opted for a new trial, in which Apple was found to owe WiLAN $85 million in royalties -- significantly less than the $145 million of the 2018 trial.

According to Bloomberg, Licensing accounted for more than half of Quarterhill's sales in the first nine months of 2019.

Apple will likely appeal the verdict. AppleInsider has reached out to both Apple and parent company Quarterhill Inc. for comment.

sunman42 · January 25, 2020 5:10PM

If Apple still used paperclips, which I'm certain they don't, this would barely equal the noise on the paperclip budget.

edited January 2020

lkrupp · January 25, 2020 5:55PM

sunman42 said:

If Apple still used paperclips, which I'm certain they don't, this would barely equal the noise on the paperclip budget.

And if Apple DID still use paperclips a paperclip non practicing entity would be suing them over it.

dant · January 25, 2020 6:57PM

For once, it would be nice to see Apple try and not be the bully in the school yard and actually act responsibly and ethically for a change. These patents are used by all the phone providers. They are ground breaking patents. They have all signed licenses. The only one fighting was Apple. Now they have lost twice in court, to two jury's, and they still want to appeal? I mean, come on! The technology is not Apples, its been proven. Pay the damages of $85 million for the i phones 6 & 7 and then pony up for what you owe for iphones 8,9,10 and 11 too. (Yup, they now owe for the phones they have created since the case was initially filed, that they admitted ALSO infringed.) Then sign a license to 2023 to when the patents expire. And before anyone tries and spins the patent troll narrative, these patents were invented by the two guys who built the company Wilan, in the first place. They were never acquired from someone else. Just because you can tie things up endlessly in court doesn't mean you should. In fact its shameful and cowardly and arrogant. Apple has hundreds of billions of dollars stored off shore -- avoiding taxes -- and they still won't pony up for the technology they have used to build that mountain of cash. Time to do what is right. Pay for what you are responsible for. For a change.

strangedays · January 25, 2020 7:04PM

dant said:

For once, it would be nice to see Apple try and not be the bully in the school yard and actually act responsibly and ethically for a change. These patents are used by all the phone providers. They are ground breaking patents. They have all signed licenses. The only one fighting was Apple. Now they have lost twice in court, to two jury's, and they still want to appeal? I mean, come on! The technology is not Apples, its been proven. Pay the damages of $85 million for the i phones 6 & 7 and then pony up for what you owe for iphones 8,9,10 and 11 too. (Yup, they now owe for the phones they have created since the case was initially filed, that they admitted ALSO infringed.) Then sign a license to 2023 to when the patents expire. And before anyone tries and spins the patent troll narrative, these patents were invented by the two guys who built the company Wilan, in the first place. They were never acquired from someone else. Just because you can tie things up endlessly in court doesn't mean you should. In fact its shameful and cowardly and arrogant. Apple has hundreds of billions of dollars stored off shore -- avoiding taxes -- and they still won't pony up for the technology they have used to build that mountain of cash. Time to do what is right. Pay for what you are responsible for. For a change.

That’s just, like, your opinion, man.

The patents sound like typical BS software patents — patents on ideas, rather than implementation, which is written code, which is protected by copyright. The notion that companies can patent abstract ideas in software is unsound to begin with, and will result in never-ending litigation. Ideas are free, written code is not. Seriously doubt Apple lifted their code.

dant · January 25, 2020 7:12PM

Actually no, strange days. Its the courts opinion. TWICE. It's also the opinion of all the other companies who have ALREADY signed licenses to the technology. Just because Steve Jobs said "we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas" doesnt mean its okay. In fact it puts Apple in a class by itself. And not a very good one.

normm · January 25, 2020 7:35PM

The main problem with software patents is that they're mostly obvious; it provides no societal benefit for someone to publish an obvious method and get a monopoly on it (a patent). In almost all cases, an "infringer" just wrote the software in the obvious way, and found out later that someone patented that.

dant · January 25, 2020 7:44PM

Point taken normm. But some patents are also ground breaking. Not just obvious add-ons to what is there already. They serve as the foundation or launching pad for something new. And they deserve the same protection -- and rewards -- as any such patent. These patents are in that realm. Take a look at the history of the company Wilan. http://www.wilan.com/company/wilanhistory/default.aspx The bottom line is that without what Wilan has invented, Apple and everyone else's products wouldn't even exist....or at least certainly not as far along in capability as they are now. Credit where credit us due. And that includes PAYING for it.

normm · January 25, 2020 9:15PM

dant said:

Point taken normm. But some patents are also ground breaking. Not just obvious add-ons to what is there already. They serve as the foundation or launching pad for something new. And they deserve the same protection -- and rewards -- as any such patent. These patents are in that realm. Take a look at the history of the company Wilan. http://www.wilan.com/company/wilanhistory/default.aspx The bottom line is that without what Wilan has invented, Apple and everyone else's products wouldn't even exist....or at least certainly not as far along in capability as they are now. Credit where credit us due. And that includes PAYING for it.

I'm glad Wilan made a lot of money from its important efforts. But patents only provide a 20 year monopoly (which is already much too long in the current fast moving tech world), so Wilan's innovations in the 1990's are not so relevant any longer. Once the ideas were picked up and advanced by the industry as a whole, it seems to me there is much less benefit to society to justify continued rent-seeking (to use an economic term).

chasm · January 25, 2020 9:22PM

Dant: so you're saying Apple should not use their full legal rights, given that they've stated (repeatedly) that they did NOT infringe these patents, and pursue the case through the full length of the court system?

If you're a lawyer commenting on this, you're a pretty bad one!

While it's possible that they just stole the patents are are willing to spend up to and possibly beyond many times the amount they've been ordered to pay to not admit this -- it would seem pretty unlikely to me.

What seems more likely is that given the various and wildly differing amounts awarded ($140M, $10M on appeal, then $85M) -- that to me sure looks like uneducated juries with no real idea of whether these patents are even valid let alone actually infringed are just figuring the one with deep pockets should pay the little guy a token amount (being aware, as they are, of how many billions Apple makes). Surely you'll admit that this is a factor in juried decisions when the juries are made up of non-technical people.

I bow to your opinion that the patents are still valid and non-obvious and important, but three trials later I think it is equally obvious that Apple doesn't believe it infringed the patents and is willing to spend the money to prove this and clear their name. Whether they are right about that or wrong about that, they have both the right and the ability to carry this all the way through the legal process, and I see zero harm in them exercising that right if they so choose.

dant · January 25, 2020 10:18PM

Normm. That's the point. They didnt make their entitled profits off their efforts. Not from Apple. Apple doesnt get a free ride just because the have the cash hord to endlessly try and bury obligations in the court system. Without what Wilan developed , Apple wouldnt have done what it did. Time to put on the big boy pants and pay up. The courts agree. Twice now. No need for a third try.

dant · January 25, 2020 10:33PM

Chasm, they can "say" til the cows come home they did not infringe. But they can't prove it. So? They have tried. In fact, its been proven already they DID infringe. Case closed. Its no longer up for discussion in the courts. All phone providers use this technology and have licensed it. Every. Single. One. Except Apple. Now they are just trying to bury the paying part in the court system too. They do it to everyone. Everyone knows it. In fact, the patent system and the courts are now under major review because companies like Apple have hijacked it. (The same way they dont pay taxes on their profits by shipping it offshore. Taxes that would go back into your community. Apple always find a way to NOT pay what they legitimately owe. It is shameful how they abuse the system and courts; not impressive.) They are being taken to Supreme Court right now for burying a case for ten years! TEN! Just because you can do something, doesnt make it right. https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2020/01/24/virnetx-urges-scotus-end-apple-gamesmanship-decade-long-patent-battle/id=118186/ Investors may like it but everyone else is being screwed by Apple. It amazes me sometimes how people don't care HOW they make money. Just that they DO. Is it any wonder the USA has completely fallen off a cliff and lost all respect globally? This is a perfect example -- a symptom -- of our spiral downwards as a country. (By the way, the amounts aren't so wide. The $10 million was an offer by Apple to settle. A ridiculous offer that was rejected. That's the only reason it exists on the record. It was utter nonsense.)

jd_in_sb · January 25, 2020 10:47PM

Apple is like Disney, they fight everything, even if costs more in legal fees than it does to pay a claim, to discourage frivolous lawsuits.

eriamjh · January 25, 2020 10:58PM

I think that this fine of 0.085 billion dollars won’t hurt them too badly.

Pay it in cash. Ones.

soli · January 25, 2020 11:04PM

eriamjh said:

I think that this fine of 0.085 billion dollars won’t hurt them too badly.

Pay it in cash. Ones.

Or in trillions, as their market is most easily measured now: $0.000085 trillion

soli · January 25, 2020 11:07PM

lkrupp said:

sunman42 said:

If Apple still used paperclips, which I'm certain they don't, this would barely equal the noise on the paperclip budget.

And if Apple DID still use paperclips a paperclip non practicing entity would be suing them over it.

I always assumed after Apple started including Liquid Metal SIM card removers in some iPhones that a liquid metal Terminator lawyer would come from the future to sue them, but then I realized that it's silly to believe that such a thing would happen because the Terminator would be an actual product form a practicing entity.

normm · January 25, 2020 11:49PM

dant said:

Normm. That's the point. They didnt make their entitled profits off their efforts. Not from Apple. Apple doesnt get a free ride just because the have the cash hord to endlessly try and bury obligations in the court system. Without what Wilan developed , Apple wouldnt have done what it did. Time to put on the big boy pants and pay up. The courts agree. Twice now. No need for a third try.

I would prefer to worry about societal benefits, rather than "entitled profits". Apple is a giant target for patent trolls ("non-practicing entities"), and so really has no choice but to fight them in order to reduce their attacks. Wilan is a non-practicing entity, and a very prominent one, and has to back up its legal threats with action to keep them credible. It seems to me inevitable that the two companies would have lengthy ongoing lawsuits.

Incidentally, since all of your posts on this forum are from today, on this story, I assume you are a lawyer working for Wilan?

ktappe · January 26, 2020 12:31AM

Ideas are free

See, that's just YOUR opinion, "man". Trademark and copyright both very, very strongly disagree with you.

cy_starkman · January 26, 2020 12:41AM

StrangeDays said:

dant said:

For once, it would be nice to see Apple try and not be the bully in the school yard and actually act responsibly and ethically for a change. These patents are used by all the phone providers. They are ground breaking patents. They have all signed licenses. The only one fighting was Apple. Now they have lost twice in court, to two jury's, and they still want to appeal? I mean, come on! The technology is not Apples, its been proven. Pay the damages of $85 million for the i phones 6 & 7 and then pony up for what you owe for iphones 8,9,10 and 11 too. (Yup, they now owe for the phones they have created since the case was initially filed, that they admitted ALSO infringed.) Then sign a license to 2023 to when the patents expire. And before anyone tries and spins the patent troll narrative, these patents were invented by the two guys who built the company Wilan, in the first place. They were never acquired from someone else. Just because you can tie things up endlessly in court doesn't mean you should. In fact its shameful and cowardly and arrogant. Apple has hundreds of billions of dollars stored off shore -- avoiding taxes -- and they still won't pony up for the technology they have used to build that mountain of cash. Time to do what is right. Pay for what you are responsible for. For a change.

That’s just, like, your opinion, man.

The patents sound like typical BS software patents — patents on ideas, rather than implementation, which is written code, which is protected by copyright. The notion that companies can patent abstract ideas in software is unsound to begin with, and will result in never-ending litigation. Ideas are free, written code is not. Seriously doubt Apple lifted their code.

that is just your opinion man.

the patent system needs abolishing completely.

we all contribute to the creation of ideas; and even actual implemented methods of construction, manufacture, delivery or presentation.

it is the group effort of humanity. not company x with enough $$$$ to patent every navel gazing.

Apple is a patent troll, every week they patent shit they never make.

patenting is being a troll, to collect a toll.

get off the horse of “my selective company does no wrong”

soli · January 26, 2020 1:03AM

cy_starkman said:

StrangeDays said:

dant said:

For once, it would be nice to see Apple try and not be the bully in the school yard and actually act responsibly and ethically for a change. These patents are used by all the phone providers. They are ground breaking patents. They have all signed licenses. The only one fighting was Apple. Now they have lost twice in court, to two jury's, and they still want to appeal? I mean, come on! The technology is not Apples, its been proven. Pay the damages of $85 million for the i phones 6 & 7 and then pony up for what you owe for iphones 8,9,10 and 11 too. (Yup, they now owe for the phones they have created since the case was initially filed, that they admitted ALSO infringed.) Then sign a license to 2023 to when the patents expire. And before anyone tries and spins the patent troll narrative, these patents were invented by the two guys who built the company Wilan, in the first place. They were never acquired from someone else. Just because you can tie things up endlessly in court doesn't mean you should. In fact its shameful and cowardly and arrogant. Apple has hundreds of billions of dollars stored off shore -- avoiding taxes -- and they still won't pony up for the technology they have used to build that mountain of cash. Time to do what is right. Pay for what you are responsible for. For a change.

That’s just, like, your opinion, man.

The patents sound like typical BS software patents — patents on ideas, rather than implementation, which is written code, which is protected by copyright. The notion that companies can patent abstract ideas in software is unsound to begin with, and will result in never-ending litigation. Ideas are free, written code is not. Seriously doubt Apple lifted their code.

that is just your opinion man.

the patent system needs abolishing completely.

we all contribute to the creation of ideas; and even actual implemented methods of construction, manufacture, delivery or presentation.

it is the group effort of humanity. not company x with enough $$$$ to patent every navel gazing.

Apple is a patent troll, every week they patent shit they never make.

patenting is being a troll, to collect a toll.

get off the horse of “my selective company does no wrong”

You really believe that if Apple creates a new paradigm for mobile computing that a company from South Korea or China should be able to come in and steal all their IP with years of R&D to make near duplicate knockoffs of what they perfected and figured out what worked in a market?

If not, then I have no idea what you could possibly mean by the extreme statement of "the patent system needs abolishing completely." Reform I get, but to remove any way in which an invention can be protected sounds absolutely bonkers. What motivation does one have to spend a lifetime and countless costs inventing if it can stolen without any recourse of recovery of one's efforts and brilliance? I'd think that would greatly hinder real industry achievements.

edited January 2020

cloudtalkin · January 26, 2020 1:13AM

chasm said:

Dant: so you're saying Apple should not use their full legal rights, given that they've stated (repeatedly) that they did NOT infringe these patents, and pursue the case through the full length of the court system?

If you're a lawyer commenting on this, you're a pretty bad one!

While it's possible that they just stole the patents are are willing to spend up to and possibly beyond many times the amount they've been ordered to pay to not admit this -- it would seem pretty unlikely to me.

What seems more likely is that given the various and wildly differing amounts awarded ($140M, $10M on appeal, then $85M) -- that to me sure looks like uneducated juries with no real idea of whether these patents are even valid let alone actually infringed are just figuring the one with deep pockets should pay the little guy a token amount (being aware, as they are, of how many billions Apple makes). Surely you'll admit that this is a factor in juried decisions when the juries are made up of non-technical people.

I bow to your opinion that the patents are still valid and non-obvious and important, but three trials later I think it is equally obvious that Apple doesn't believe it infringed the patents and is willing to spend the money to prove this and clear their name. Whether they are right about that or wrong about that, they have both the right and the ability to carry this all the way through the legal process, and I see zero harm in them exercising that right if they so choose.

Yours is a fairly unique take on this situation. Seems like you've taken a fair amount of liberties with your interpretation of Apple's position in this case. Afaict, Apple hasn't repeatedly stated they didn't infringe on the patents. Infringement was adjudicated in the first trial in 2018. Based on the article, Apple hasn't appealed the infringement verdict. The only thing they appealed was the award. $140M - Apple said nope. They calculated that incorrectly. We ain't payin' it. Court offers a $10M or go back to trial deal(for award amount only-not infringement) - WiLan said nope, going to trial. We ain't takin' 10. $85M is the new amount. As Appleinsider pointed out, they got significantly less (-$60M) than the $145M original verdict. But glass half full says they got helluva better deal by going back to trial (+75M) instead of taking the offer of $10M.

If Apple appeals as AI suggests, I think the only thing they can appeal is the award amount. Similar to their situation with VirnetX. IANAL but I think I have a fair understanding of the details in this article.

Jury rules Apple must pay WiLAN $85M for patent infringement

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