Authorities order Foxconn to keep Chinese facilities closed

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 33
    Don't believe those infection and fatality numbers - they're all a fantasy of the Chinese Communist Party. Although much more transparent than during the SARS outbreak, the CCP has grossly mishandled this outbreak and are trying to make things appear much better than they are by controlling the number of PCR test kits allocated to hospitals. While there are many steps on the road to an official nCoV diagnosis, the final requisite step is the PCR test which positively identifies the presence of nCoV RNA. By limiting the number of test kits, they keep the vast majority of infections out of the official infection pool count, and if you expire without an official diagnosis, your death is listed as something other than an nCoV infection. Wuhan crematoria normally run 4 hours per day; currently they are running 24x7. I sure do hope that Apple has a Plan B in place - one that doesn't involve parts sourced from or manufacturing in China.
    tmayelijahgblah64
  • Reply 22 of 33
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,311member
    larryjw said:
    elijahg said:
    When it comes to protecting their society, the Chinese don't mess around.   They are serious.   And they don't hesitate to enforce their rules --  Even if it means hurting their economy which is often their primary concern, they won't hesitate.

    Being an "authoritarian" government gives them a lot of latitude for doing good as well as bad -- and often the difference is in the eye of the beholder.  Right now, Foxconn likely thinks it sucks.
    The only thing they're trying to protect is their control of the citizens. Remember they were trying to hide the fact that this virus had emerged at all, going as far as arresting the doctor that originally spread the word. Universities across the world have also claimed that China is massively underreporting the number of cases to make it seem like they're more competent than they really are.

    This is a great opportunity for Jingping to get off on increasing control even more. Despite their increased control however, their efforts to contain the virus have obviously failed. If they were really concerned about their society, they wouldn't be putting people in concentration camps and the wildlife markets where the virus came from would have been closed down long ago.
    What BS! This coronavirus isn’t a fake problem. Given highly exponential infection rate, their only recourse is massive quarantine. This is scientifically based decision. The infection rate is not as high as measles and tb, but it needs to be controlled by quarantine at this point. 

    Population density is the big problem in China; stay-at-home isolation is nonsense there. Communicable diseases spread widely due to density. 

    Then, does no one want to attack Japan for quarantining a cruise ship with 3700 aboard? One person was sick with the virus, now 64 are testing positive for it. Everyone on board is confined to their rooms. Sure, the Japanese are quarantining these folks because of authoritarianism. 

    Pure BS!
    At what point exactly did I say the virus was a fake problem? Where did I say I disagree with the quarantine? I said they were trying to cover up the existence of the virus before quarantine came into effect. If they admitted it before - rather than trying to cover it up, it may have stayed under control. Reminds me of another communist dictatorship's attempted cover up: Russia and the Chernobyl disaster.
    tmaydanh
  • Reply 23 of 33
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,311member
    tmay said:
    larryjw said:
    elijahg said:
    When it comes to protecting their society, the Chinese don't mess around.   They are serious.   And they don't hesitate to enforce their rules --  Even if it means hurting their economy which is often their primary concern, they won't hesitate.

    Being an "authoritarian" government gives them a lot of latitude for doing good as well as bad -- and often the difference is in the eye of the beholder.  Right now, Foxconn likely thinks it sucks.
    The only thing they're trying to protect is their control of the citizens. Remember they were trying to hide the fact that this virus had emerged at all, going as far as arresting the doctor that originally spread the word. Universities across the world have also claimed that China is massively underreporting the number of cases to make it seem like they're more competent than they really are.

    This is a great opportunity for Jingping to get off on increasing control even more. Despite their increased control however, their efforts to contain the virus have obviously failed. If they were really concerned about their society, they wouldn't be putting people in concentration camps and the wildlife markets where the virus came from would have been closed down long ago.
    What BS! This coronavirus isn’t a fake problem. Given highly exponential infection rate, their only recourse is massive quarantine. This is scientifically based decision. The infection rate is not as high as measles and tb, but it needs to be controlled by quarantine at this point. 

    Population density is the big problem in China; stay-at-home isolation is nonsense there. Communicable diseases spread widely due to density. 

    Then, does no one want to attack Japan for quarantining a cruise ship with 3700 aboard? One person was sick with the virus, now 64 are testing positive for it. Everyone on board is confined to their rooms. Sure, the Japanese are quarantining these folks because of authoritarianism. 

    Pure BS!
    elijah is absolutely correct.

    Given that the Chinese Government, at all levels, attempted to hide the problem, to the point of arresting 8 doctors who used proper channels, and given that other medical personnel were aware of SARS like symptoms of individuals since as early as late November,  "their only recourse is massive quarantine" is now certainly true, though only because the Government ignored the earlier warnings. It is certainly true that the Government has been ill prepared as well.


    https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-whistleblower-doctor-li-wenliang-in-critical-condition-2020-2

    "In the past five weeks, a new coronavirus has infected more than 28,000 people and killed at least 565 other people. Among those casualties is Li Wenliang, a 34-year-old doctor who was one of the first people to sound the alarm about the new outbreak.

    Li sent a message to his medical-school alumni group on December 30 warning that seven patients had been quarantined at Wuhan Central Hospital after coming down with a respiratory illness that seemed like the SARS coronavirus. The police in Wuhan then reprimanded and silenced Li, requiring him to sign a letter acknowledging that he was "making false comments."

    Li died of the coronavirus early on Friday at Wuhan Central Hospital, where he had been in intensive care for three weeks. The hospital confirmed his death at about 4 a.m. local time.

    "During the fight against the novel coronavirus outbreak, Li Wenliang, an ophthalmologist at our hospital, was infected. Efforts to save him were ineffective. He died at 2:58 a.m. on Feb. 7. We deeply regret and mourn his death,".

    Dr. Li Wenliang is widely recognized as a hero, and even a martyr in China.




    "Just a reminder, he was 1 of 8 medical personnel arrest and then returned to duty after threats of punishment for attempting to warn other medical personnel or contact higher authority after being ignored by local authorities. In an interview before his death he stated he was exposed after his arrest, before it was known to be an asymptotic contagion, from a patient he interacted without a mask due to shortages at that time. Another doctor of that group was the 1st confirmed infection via the eyes, he continued to treat patients when goggles ran out."


    The government arrested everyone in that group chat for "spreading rumours." They even tried to cover up Li's death, it was published by a state newspaper at 3am and then removed, and then mentions of it on Weibo started to vanish too. I don't know who Jingping thinks he's fooling, because the Chinese are well aware the government tries to cover things up. Once something like that is out, removing it from publications doesn't erase it from memory nor prevent people speaking about it (even if the consequences for these "rumours" is arrest.
    tmay
  • Reply 24 of 33
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,311member
    elijahg said:
    When it comes to protecting their society, the Chinese don't mess around.   They are serious.   And they don't hesitate to enforce their rules --  Even if it means hurting their economy which is often their primary concern, they won't hesitate.

    Being an "authoritarian" government gives them a lot of latitude for doing good as well as bad -- and often the difference is in the eye of the beholder.  Right now, Foxconn likely thinks it sucks.
    The only thing they're trying to protect is their control of the citizens. Remember they were trying to hide the fact that this virus had emerged at all, going as far as arresting the doctor that originally spread the word. Universities across the world have also claimed that China is massively underreporting the number of cases to make it seem like they're more competent than they really are.

    This is a great opportunity for Jingping to get off on increasing control even more. Despite their increased control however, their efforts to contain the virus have obviously failed. If they were really concerned about their society, they wouldn't be putting people in concentration camps and the wildlife markets where the virus came from would have been closed down long ago.

    That only makes no sense (they close a major factory to control their people????) -- but none of it has any factual basis.   Just hate.
    Not sure where I mentioned anything about closing the Foxconn factory. They know that if society breaks down, due to this, they will lose their control on society. They don't care about the health of the people, only that if enough people die, they will lose control.

    So are you saying the widely reported abuse of Uighur muslims is fake too? Or is it just some fake "right wing" propaganda? You obviously have some connection to the CPP, because anyone with their own eyes can see what a terrible regime the CPP is.
    danhStrangeDays
  • Reply 25 of 33
    jdwjdw Posts: 993member
    Not sure why George is defending the CCP and bashing so-called right-wingers when what we all (Liberal or Conservative) should be doing is listening to people who have lived there for YEARS and know what they are talking about, whether they be Chinese or not.  I've lived in Japan 25 years, so when my father reads something about Japan, he comes to me to ask if it is legitimate.  In like manner, I tend to watch Winston Sterzel's YT channel to get the latest scoop on China.  His wife is Chinese and a doctor, which means he has strong connections to folks in the medical field in China.  His videos on Coronavirus are excellent. 
    elijahgboltsfan17StrangeDayschemengin1
  • Reply 28 of 33
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,566member
    tmay said:
    larryjw said:
    elijahg said:
    When it comes to protecting their society, the Chinese don't mess around.   They are serious.   And they don't hesitate to enforce their rules --  Even if it means hurting their economy which is often their primary concern, they won't hesitate.

    Being an "authoritarian" government gives them a lot of latitude for doing good as well as bad -- and often the difference is in the eye of the beholder.  Right now, Foxconn likely thinks it sucks.
    The only thing they're trying to protect is their control of the citizens. Remember they were trying to hide the fact that this virus had emerged at all, going as far as arresting the doctor that originally spread the word. Universities across the world have also claimed that China is massively underreporting the number of cases to make it seem like they're more competent than they really are.

    This is a great opportunity for Jingping to get off on increasing control even more. Despite their increased control however, their efforts to contain the virus have obviously failed. If they were really concerned about their society, they wouldn't be putting people in concentration camps and the wildlife markets where the virus came from would have been closed down long ago.
    What BS! This coronavirus isn’t a fake problem. Given highly exponential infection rate, their only recourse is massive quarantine. This is scientifically based decision. The infection rate is not as high as measles and tb, but it needs to be controlled by quarantine at this point. 

    Population density is the big problem in China; stay-at-home isolation is nonsense there. Communicable diseases spread widely due to density. 

    Then, does no one want to attack Japan for quarantining a cruise ship with 3700 aboard? One person was sick with the virus, now 64 are testing positive for it. Everyone on board is confined to their rooms. Sure, the Japanese are quarantining these folks because of authoritarianism. 

    Pure BS!
    elijah is absolutely correct.

    Given that the Chinese Government, at all levels, attempted to hide the problem, to the point of arresting 8 doctors who used proper channels, and given that other medical personnel were aware of SARS like symptoms of individuals since as early as late November,  "their only recourse is massive quarantine" is now certainly true, though only because the Government ignored the earlier warnings. It is certainly true that the Government has been ill prepared as well.


    https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-whistleblower-doctor-li-wenliang-in-critical-condition-2020-2

    "In the past five weeks, a new coronavirus has infected more than 28,000 people and killed at least 565 other people. Among those casualties is Li Wenliang, a 34-year-old doctor who was one of the first people to sound the alarm about the new outbreak.

    Li sent a message to his medical-school alumni group on December 30 warning that seven patients had been quarantined at Wuhan Central Hospital after coming down with a respiratory illness that seemed like the SARS coronavirus. The police in Wuhan then reprimanded and silenced Li, requiring him to sign a letter acknowledging that he was "making false comments."

    Li died of the coronavirus early on Friday at Wuhan Central Hospital, where he had been in intensive care for three weeks. The hospital confirmed his death at about 4 a.m. local time.

    "During the fight against the novel coronavirus outbreak, Li Wenliang, an ophthalmologist at our hospital, was infected. Efforts to save him were ineffective. He died at 2:58 a.m. on Feb. 7. We deeply regret and mourn his death,".

    Dr. Li Wenliang is widely recognized as a hero, and even a martyr in China.




    "Just a reminder, he was 1 of 8 medical personnel arrest and then returned to duty after threats of punishment for attempting to warn other medical personnel or contact higher authority after being ignored by local authorities. In an interview before his death he stated he was exposed after his arrest, before it was known to be an asymptotic contagion, from a patient he interacted without a mask due to shortages at that time. Another doctor of that group was the 1st confirmed infection via the eyes, he continued to treat patients when goggles ran out."
    Standard propaganda:  over stated to make a point.
    Nobody was trying to cover up anything.   But, like somebody shouting FIRE in a crowded theater when there is none, he was told to STFU.   Unfortunately, he turned out to be right.  And, when that was proven, the government stepped in and took dramatic and drastic measures to contain the virus -- even though it will cause a major hit to their economy and to their citizen's lives.   The World's infection control experts have repeatedly commended China for their strong response to the virus.   Except for America's far right, the world is grateful.
    What the fuck are you talking about? How do you claim to know this? What qualifies you to state there was no cover up despite the accounts of people in China? Nothing. Nothing is what qualifies you. 

    Please disclose your China interests. 
    elijahgmacgui
  • Reply 29 of 33
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,259administrator
    Everybody dial it back a bit, and take a minute to re-read the commenting guidelines.
  • Reply 30 of 33
    M68000M68000 Posts: 366member
    It seems likely that Apple will be looking at alternate production facilities around the world.  Places were 100% production can happen and not rely on components being available from another area to complete that production.  It reminds me of "Disaster recovery" efforts and preparations in the IT world.  You don't want to have such a day but you are prepared.  Like keeping multiple data centers in very different geographic locations.   It would not surprise me if the SLT at Apple has already been having top secret discussions on how to do this.  Would it take years to fully have alternate production areas ??   Also, I appreciate the forum allowing the discussion of the issues, this may not be a world news forum, but clearly this situation impacts Apple and many others too, so it's relevant.
    edited February 2020
  • Reply 31 of 33
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,262member
    tmay said:
    larryjw said:
    elijahg said:
    When it comes to protecting their society, the Chinese don't mess around.   They are serious.   And they don't hesitate to enforce their rules --  Even if it means hurting their economy which is often their primary concern, they won't hesitate.

    Being an "authoritarian" government gives them a lot of latitude for doing good as well as bad -- and often the difference is in the eye of the beholder.  Right now, Foxconn likely thinks it sucks.
    The only thing they're trying to protect is their control of the citizens. Remember they were trying to hide the fact that this virus had emerged at all, going as far as arresting the doctor that originally spread the word. Universities across the world have also claimed that China is massively underreporting the number of cases to make it seem like they're more competent than they really are.

    This is a great opportunity for Jingping to get off on increasing control even more. Despite their increased control however, their efforts to contain the virus have obviously failed. If they were really concerned about their society, they wouldn't be putting people in concentration camps and the wildlife markets where the virus came from would have been closed down long ago.
    What BS! This coronavirus isn’t a fake problem. Given highly exponential infection rate, their only recourse is massive quarantine. This is scientifically based decision. The infection rate is not as high as measles and tb, but it needs to be controlled by quarantine at this point. 

    Population density is the big problem in China; stay-at-home isolation is nonsense there. Communicable diseases spread widely due to density. 

    Then, does no one want to attack Japan for quarantining a cruise ship with 3700 aboard? One person was sick with the virus, now 64 are testing positive for it. Everyone on board is confined to their rooms. Sure, the Japanese are quarantining these folks because of authoritarianism. 

    Pure BS!
    elijah is absolutely correct.

    Given that the Chinese Government, at all levels, attempted to hide the problem, to the point of arresting 8 doctors who used proper channels, and given that other medical personnel were aware of SARS like symptoms of individuals since as early as late November,  "their only recourse is massive quarantine" is now certainly true, though only because the Government ignored the earlier warnings. It is certainly true that the Government has been ill prepared as well.


    https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-whistleblower-doctor-li-wenliang-in-critical-condition-2020-2

    "In the past five weeks, a new coronavirus has infected more than 28,000 people and killed at least 565 other people. Among those casualties is Li Wenliang, a 34-year-old doctor who was one of the first people to sound the alarm about the new outbreak.

    Li sent a message to his medical-school alumni group on December 30 warning that seven patients had been quarantined at Wuhan Central Hospital after coming down with a respiratory illness that seemed like the SARS coronavirus. The police in Wuhan then reprimanded and silenced Li, requiring him to sign a letter acknowledging that he was "making false comments."

    Li died of the coronavirus early on Friday at Wuhan Central Hospital, where he had been in intensive care for three weeks. The hospital confirmed his death at about 4 a.m. local time.

    "During the fight against the novel coronavirus outbreak, Li Wenliang, an ophthalmologist at our hospital, was infected. Efforts to save him were ineffective. He died at 2:58 a.m. on Feb. 7. We deeply regret and mourn his death,".

    Dr. Li Wenliang is widely recognized as a hero, and even a martyr in China.




    "Just a reminder, he was 1 of 8 medical personnel arrest and then returned to duty after threats of punishment for attempting to warn other medical personnel or contact higher authority after being ignored by local authorities. In an interview before his death he stated he was exposed after his arrest, before it was known to be an asymptotic contagion, from a patient he interacted without a mask due to shortages at that time. Another doctor of that group was the 1st confirmed infection via the eyes, he continued to treat patients when goggles ran out."
    Standard propaganda:  over stated to make a point.
    Nobody was trying to cover up anything.   But, like somebody shouting FIRE in a crowded theater when there is none, he was told to STFU.   Unfortunately, he turned out to be right.  And, when that was proven, the government stepped in and took dramatic and drastic measures to contain the virus -- even though it will cause a major hit to their economy and to their citizen's lives.   The World's infection control experts have repeatedly commended China for their strong response to the virus.   Except for America's far right, the world is grateful.
    What the fuck are you talking about? How do you claim to know this? What qualifies you to state there was no cover up despite the accounts of people in China? Nothing. Nothing is what qualifies you. 

    Please disclose your China interests. 

    Just going be the facts.   The real ones.
    Unfortunately, in today's America, just as you are thought to be far left if you aren't far right, you are deemed to be a China lover if you aren't a China hater.
    ... In truth, I am none of those.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 32 of 33
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,045member
    GeorgeBMac said:
    Just going be the facts.   The real ones.
    Do you have links for the "real" ones you're referring to?
    tmayelijahg
  • Reply 33 of 33
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    RonnnieO said:
    Our son lives in the south of China and just informed me that the country has been put on lockdown. One person per dwelling is allowed to leave once every two days to get supplies- that's it.
    This is interesting. The world will have a chance to evaluate how tactics like this work in reducing the spread of the virus when applied at a large scale.

    A lot of WHO and Chinese protocols can be reviewed for effectiveness and new ideas can be brought to the table.
    So far the best technology available is thermal imaging and non contact thermometers, culling people for fever faster than any other technology. AI surveillance strategies fail as people are required to wear masks in public in the effected areas, and masks are in short supply.
    Huawei gave up on trying to identify mask wearers as there are not enough analysis points to focus on. There are other factors such as shape and the way people walk to look at but they aren't that well developed yet. In these cases the goal is not to identify the person for authenticating purposes but as a fallback option which would be very useful in cases like this if a 100% positive result cannot be obtained.

    However, AI is very much an important part of tracking this and other viruses and is not limited to facial recognition. That is just one option out of many and AFAIK, masks are only required in two provinces.

    In fact this particular virus was actually detected first by AI (BlueDot) and is being used in many fields to track its expansion.

    Basically anywhere where huge datasets need to be analysed. Flight records, transport systems, social media references etc.

    The models need to be re-trained but that isn't such a big deal and more and more compute power is coming online to help with processing the data.

    https://www.wired.com/story/how-ai-tracking-coronavirus-outbreak/
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