On the other hand, if they upgrade the PBs to the 970 right away that would certainly upset some users who bought the new PBs on the expectation that that would be the best computer available for perhaps six months or so. Not to mention possible technical problems that they might enounter.
So Apple should turn it into a positive PR move - offer the option of a straight exchange for all those who received them, rewarding the early adopters and creating loads of good will, not to mention a rapid simultaneous field test of G4 vs 970 performance, resulting in lots of glowing anecdotal press.
We know the number of shipped 17" PBs is likely low so it won't impact the bottom line too radically (at least not in this quarter), and it will help to encourage sales of the premium priced beast once the more widely adopted 15" equipped with a 970 starts shipping.
Technical issues would be more stickey if you didn't offer the optional exchange as you'd have pissed off 970 users, and disgruntled G4 users. This way the onus is on the consumer - either stick with a known commodity in the G4 or live on the edge and go 970.
You have to imagine that wondering how to introduce a great chip like the 970 earlier than expected has to be a much happier problem than trying to explain that nothing faster than the 500MHz G4 will be available for the next year or so.
For those of you who are skeptical that Apple will put the 970 in the PowerBook first...what would you have said if I told you in December that the new, faster version of FireWire (firewire 800) would debut in the PowerBooks first? You would have all laughed me out of this forum. So anything's possible...
Didn't MacWhispers say that new mother boards were sent out for bid and one was longer than the other. Does the 17"PB have a longer board than the 15"PB?
For those of you who are skeptical that Apple will put the 970 in the PowerBook first...what would you have said if I told you in December that the new, faster version of FireWire (firewire 800) would debut in the PowerBooks first? You would have all laughed me out of this forum. So anything's possible...
Im certainly one of those - but as I have stated before, without being shot down in this forum and others, is the fact the 970 is cooler than the G4.
Of course you would need new MB, an OS update (not necessarily 10.3) to support the chip. Which will be much faster @ 32bit apps than the G4, no real problem - so yes its a possibility.
My assumptions are based on logic not SJ's own RDF, because it makes sense to release updated 970 PB's with a 64bit OS (10.3) with a huge marketing coup tied with 64bit.
Why introduce a G5?, say its 64bit, but not have anything at OS that will REALLY support it?, I could be totally wrong, but its for these reasons its a little different to something like firewire 800 or 802.11g, etc.
No this is HUGE!,
Ill stick with my 2yr old TiPB till then Ill hang tight.
I've been reading between the lines on this Centrino thing, and it looks like it might not be as good as percieved. Here I go:
The Dell Centrino based laptop, whatever its name is (it might be a member of the unInspiron family of laptops...or maybe a flatitude). The specs for the highest, most KICKASS model are as follows:
1.3ghz Centrino chip
Wi-Fi 802.11b
7hour battery life
teeny weeny display (10" or so)
AND...a $1800 price tag.
The 12" powerbook, for only 200 bucks more, is very competitive, even though the two laptops are not in the same denomination of size, etc. The 12" kicks the unInspiron's ass in speed, quality, wireless connectivity, and, um, looks. The only lack I see in the 12" PB is the 5 hour battery life.
Just my opinion the issue. (sorry. This probably should have gone in the Centrino thread)
As a couple of others have said in these forums, who cares about the 64-bitness of the 970...when it's twice as fast at the same clock speed as the G4 in 32-bit mode? Give me the 970!!! Worry about the 64-bit OS with Panther down the road. Give me the braun of a real processor now!
For those of you who are skeptical that Apple will put the 970 in the PowerBook first...what would you have said if I told you in December that the new, faster version of FireWire (firewire 800) would debut in the PowerBooks first? You would have all laughed me out of this forum. So anything's possible...
It was somewhat weird that FW800 was put into the 17" AlBook first. Keeping that in mind, it's weird that the PowerMacs shipped with FW800 first. But anyway, an interface is much different than a whole new motherboard architecture.
Perhaps some things will come up to further suggest a simultaneous PowerMac and PowerBook 970 debut. But right now there isn't any conclusive evidence of that let alone the PowerBook getting the 970 first. I'll believe it when I hear it come from Steve's mouth. This is all still wishful thinking.
Placebo, I went to Dell and saw a large range of options for Centrino laptops, including 14" screens and up to 1.6Ghz CPUs with a price tag of over $2,700. I'm not sure where you found a 10" Dell model. Were you just looking at a notebook comparable to the 12"?
Again, the 7 hour battery life comes only when you buy another battery and run with dual batteries. That probably means swapping out the optical drive for the second battery.
Placebo, I went to Dell and saw a large range of options for Centrino laptops, including 14" screens and up to 1.6Ghz CPUs with a price tag of over $2,700. I'm not sure where you found a 10" Dell model. Were you just looking at a notebook comparable to the 12"?
Again, the 7 hour battery life comes only when you buy another battery and run with dual batteries. That probably means swapping out the optical drive for the second battery.
Exactly. What is keeping you from buying an extra battery for the PowerBook? You don't even have to put it to sleep to change the battery!
That will give you about 8 hours battry life for the PowerBook without removing the optical drive.
I've been reading between the lines on this Centrino thing, and it looks like it might not be as good as percieved. Here I go:
The Dell Centrino based laptop, whatever its name is (it might be a member of the unInspiron family of laptops...or maybe a flatitude). The specs for the highest, most KICKASS model are as follows:
1.3ghz Centrino chip
Wi-Fi 802.11b
7hour battery life
teeny weeny display (10" or so)
AND...a $1800 price tag.
The 12" powerbook, for only 200 bucks more, is very competitive, even though the two laptops are not in the same denomination of size, etc. The 12" kicks the unInspiron's ass in speed, quality, wireless connectivity, and, um, looks. The only lack I see in the 12" PB is the 5 hour battery life.
Just my opinion the issue. (sorry. This probably should have gone in the Centrino thread)
You're kidding, right? I don't think Delll even makes a 10" Notebook.
Let's try a more fair comparison... from Dell SB, the Latitiude D600
Latitude D600
$1,867
Latitude D600: Pentium® M Processor 1.40GHz with 14.1in SXGA+ Display D614S [221-2641]
Memory: 256MB,2 DIMMS,DDR SDRAM 256M [311-1872]
Hard Drive: 40GHDD,9.5MM,5400RPM 40D [340-7879]
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional Service Pack 1 XPPRO1 [420-1946]
Modem: Internal 56K Modem I56 [313-1535]
Module Bay Devices: 8-24-10-24X SWDVD/CDRW Combo Drive 24XCMBO [313-1533]
Hardware Support Services: 3Yr Mail-In Service T3YRR [950-8540][950-8542]
For a notebook that's about the same price as the 12" PB, you have a bigger/higher res screen, still around 5.3 lbs, a processor that should easily best the 867 G4 (1.4 centrino is probably close to a 2 GHz P4), same memory, hard drive, a combo drive, included wireless, and a 3 year warranty. Battery life according to C|Net is around 4 hrs, which is pretty good.
For a notebook that's about the same price as the 12" PB, you have a bigger/higher res screen, still around 5.3 lbs, a processor that should easily best the 867 G4 (1.4 centrino is probably close to a 2 GHz P4), same memory, hard drive, a combo drive, included wireless, and a 3 year warranty. Battery life according to C|Net is around 4 hrs, which is pretty good.
You know the Centrino is't a new chip don't you? Its a chip SET, and uses a good old P4-M, a P4-M will be SLOWER than a desktop P4 due to the power saving measures built into the chip. Your comparison is hereby demolished with prejudice due to poor fact checking.
You know the Centrino isn't a chip SET don't you? It's a set of 3 technologies: the aforementioned chipset, a wireless module, and a brand new CPU: the Pentium-M, formerly known as Banias. The Pentium-M isn't a P4-M. The Pentium-M does run at a lower clockspeed than the P4-M, although we all know that you can't compare performance based on clockspeed alone. Manufacturers are free to incorporate any or all of the 3 technologies that comprise Centrino, but they're not allowed to call their product Centrino unless it includes all 3. Your hubris is hereby demolished with prejudice due to even worse fact checking.
What is a chip set, a set of chips--CPU, 855 MB set and network interface components (more chips here as well as connectors.) There may be many technologies involved but if it looks, talks and smells like a chip set, it is a chip set despite what a marketing department might have you believe.
My hubris is well intact, not being an Intel afficianado I oversimplified a bit after checking out Intel, Toms Hardware and 80211-planet. So I did do my fact checking, but admit to being hertofore caught adjusting my package in public.
All in all though, the basic analysis still holds even if I wasn't painfully correct on identifying the processor. 8)
For clarification:
In the computer world, the definition of "chipset" does not include the CPU. These days a chipset normally includes a memory controller, a clock, a PCI bridge, an ethernet controller, a USB controller, a DMA controller, an IDE controller or two, etc. Chipsets may include graphics and sound controllers as well. Things they don't include are CPU, memory (except for a bit of non-volatile memory for things like BIOS settings), and anything on a card (PCI, ISA, PCMCIA, AGP, etc).
In the case of the Centrino, the chipset is the Intel 855PM or 855GM. The CPU is the Pentium-M. The wireless component is handled by the Intel Pro/Wireless 2100 Network Connection, which resides on a Mini-PCI card. Even though a computer (including CPU, graphics card, SCSI card, etc) might look to you like a bit set of chips, the word "chipset" has a very specific meaning. This isn't some term that Intel marketing foisted on the world, it's a very real thing.
And if you're going to argue that "chip set" is different than "chipset"...don't.
Had an interesting thought this morning about using the 970 in portables. The GX bus operates at a multiple (half) the processor speed, right? So there's no fundamental barrier to a 970-based mobo operating at a range of clockspeeds. It would certainly be very handy for the end-user to be able to adjust clockspeeds through a standard control panel.
For a desktop, you'd just run the mobo at the top clockspeed most of the time, unless you're conscious of power consumption. But in portables (and perhaps restricted desktop enclosures like iMacs and Cubes) you might be able to adjust the clockspeed to the heat and power requirements of the time.
This puts the arguments about the power consumption & heat output of the 970 in a different light. Perhaps the power consumption of an actual 970-based portable would be a broad range of figures, not a single one. If conditions are cool and you're connected to mains power, you could just bump up the clockspeed to the max. But when you're on the road or working in the tropics, you might underclock your PB to get usable performance while keeping power and heat at tolerable levels.
Comments
Originally posted by neutrino23
On the other hand, if they upgrade the PBs to the 970 right away that would certainly upset some users who bought the new PBs on the expectation that that would be the best computer available for perhaps six months or so. Not to mention possible technical problems that they might enounter.
So Apple should turn it into a positive PR move - offer the option of a straight exchange for all those who received them, rewarding the early adopters and creating loads of good will, not to mention a rapid simultaneous field test of G4 vs 970 performance, resulting in lots of glowing anecdotal press.
We know the number of shipped 17" PBs is likely low so it won't impact the bottom line too radically (at least not in this quarter), and it will help to encourage sales of the premium priced beast once the more widely adopted 15" equipped with a 970 starts shipping.
Technical issues would be more stickey if you didn't offer the optional exchange as you'd have pissed off 970 users, and disgruntled G4 users. This way the onus is on the consumer - either stick with a known commodity in the G4 or live on the edge and go 970.
Just a thought...
Originally posted by DHagan4755
For those of you who are skeptical that Apple will put the 970 in the PowerBook first...what would you have said if I told you in December that the new, faster version of FireWire (firewire 800) would debut in the PowerBooks first? You would have all laughed me out of this forum. So anything's possible...
Im certainly one of those - but as I have stated before, without being shot down in this forum and others, is the fact the 970 is cooler than the G4.
Of course you would need new MB, an OS update (not necessarily 10.3) to support the chip. Which will be much faster @ 32bit apps than the G4, no real problem - so yes its a possibility.
My assumptions are based on logic not SJ's own RDF, because it makes sense to release updated 970 PB's with a 64bit OS (10.3) with a huge marketing coup tied with 64bit.
Why introduce a G5?, say its 64bit, but not have anything at OS that will REALLY support it?, I could be totally wrong, but its for these reasons its a little different to something like firewire 800 or 802.11g, etc.
No this is HUGE!,
Ill stick with my 2yr old TiPB till then Ill hang tight.
The Dell Centrino based laptop, whatever its name is (it might be a member of the unInspiron family of laptops...or maybe a flatitude). The specs for the highest, most KICKASS model are as follows:
1.3ghz Centrino chip
Wi-Fi 802.11b
7hour battery life
teeny weeny display (10" or so)
AND...a $1800 price tag.
The 12" powerbook, for only 200 bucks more, is very competitive, even though the two laptops are not in the same denomination of size, etc. The 12" kicks the unInspiron's ass in speed, quality, wireless connectivity, and, um, looks.
Just my opinion the issue. (sorry. This probably should have gone in the Centrino thread)
For those of you who are skeptical that Apple will put the 970 in the PowerBook first...what would you have said if I told you in December that the new, faster version of FireWire (firewire 800) would debut in the PowerBooks first? You would have all laughed me out of this forum. So anything's possible...
It was somewhat weird that FW800 was put into the 17" AlBook first. Keeping that in mind, it's weird that the PowerMacs shipped with FW800 first. But anyway, an interface is much different than a whole new motherboard architecture.
Perhaps some things will come up to further suggest a simultaneous PowerMac and PowerBook 970 debut. But right now there isn't any conclusive evidence of that let alone the PowerBook getting the 970 first. I'll believe it when I hear it come from Steve's mouth. This is all still wishful thinking.
Again, the 7 hour battery life comes only when you buy another battery and run with dual batteries. That probably means swapping out the optical drive for the second battery.
Originally posted by FrostyMMB
Placebo, I went to Dell and saw a large range of options for Centrino laptops, including 14" screens and up to 1.6Ghz CPUs with a price tag of over $2,700. I'm not sure where you found a 10" Dell model. Were you just looking at a notebook comparable to the 12"?
Again, the 7 hour battery life comes only when you buy another battery and run with dual batteries. That probably means swapping out the optical drive for the second battery.
Exactly. What is keeping you from buying an extra battery for the PowerBook? You don't even have to put it to sleep to change the battery!
That will give you about 8 hours battry life for the PowerBook without removing the optical drive.
Originally posted by Placebo
I've been reading between the lines on this Centrino thing, and it looks like it might not be as good as percieved. Here I go:
The Dell Centrino based laptop, whatever its name is (it might be a member of the unInspiron family of laptops...or maybe a flatitude). The specs for the highest, most KICKASS model are as follows:
1.3ghz Centrino chip
Wi-Fi 802.11b
7hour battery life
teeny weeny display (10" or so)
AND...a $1800 price tag.
The 12" powerbook, for only 200 bucks more, is very competitive, even though the two laptops are not in the same denomination of size, etc. The 12" kicks the unInspiron's ass in speed, quality, wireless connectivity, and, um, looks.
Just my opinion the issue. (sorry. This probably should have gone in the Centrino thread)
You're kidding, right? I don't think Delll even makes a 10" Notebook.
Let's try a more fair comparison... from Dell SB, the Latitiude D600
Latitude D600
$1,867
Latitude D600: Pentium® M Processor 1.40GHz with 14.1in SXGA+ Display D614S [221-2641]
Memory: 256MB,2 DIMMS,DDR SDRAM 256M [311-1872]
Hard Drive: 40GHDD,9.5MM,5400RPM 40D [340-7879]
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional Service Pack 1 XPPRO1 [420-1946]
Modem: Internal 56K Modem I56 [313-1535]
Module Bay Devices: 8-24-10-24X SWDVD/CDRW Combo Drive 24XCMBO [313-1533]
Wireless Networking Options: Intel® PRO/Wireless 2100 WLAN (802.11b, 11Mbps) miniPCI Card IPW21 [430-0483]
Bundle: Dell Latitude Notebook NOMSBE [461-8702]
Batteries: 6 CELL PRIMARY BATTERY 6C [312-0054]
Hardware Support Services: 3Yr Mail-In Service T3YRR [950-8540][950-8542]
For a notebook that's about the same price as the 12" PB, you have a bigger/higher res screen, still around 5.3 lbs, a processor that should easily best the 867 G4 (1.4 centrino is probably close to a 2 GHz P4), same memory, hard drive, a combo drive, included wireless, and a 3 year warranty. Battery life according to C|Net is around 4 hrs, which is pretty good.
Originally posted by MCQ
For a notebook that's about the same price as the 12" PB, you have a bigger/higher res screen, still around 5.3 lbs, a processor that should easily best the 867 G4 (1.4 centrino is probably close to a 2 GHz P4), same memory, hard drive, a combo drive, included wireless, and a 3 year warranty. Battery life according to C|Net is around 4 hrs, which is pretty good.
I'm not sure what the point of the discussion.
No firewire = no iPod
Bigger screen = bigger box
centrino "easily best"
Originally posted by AirSluf
You know the Centrino is't a new chip don't you? Its a chip SET, and uses a good old P4-M, a P4-M will be SLOWER than a desktop P4 due to the power saving measures built into the chip. Your comparison is hereby demolished with prejudice due to poor fact checking.
You know the Centrino isn't a chip SET don't you? It's a set of 3 technologies: the aforementioned chipset, a wireless module, and a brand new CPU: the Pentium-M, formerly known as Banias. The Pentium-M isn't a P4-M. The Pentium-M does run at a lower clockspeed than the P4-M, although we all know that you can't compare performance based on clockspeed alone. Manufacturers are free to incorporate any or all of the 3 technologies that comprise Centrino, but they're not allowed to call their product Centrino unless it includes all 3. Your hubris is hereby demolished with prejudice due to even worse fact checking.
correct me if i'm wrong
Originally posted by AirSluf
What is a chip set, a set of chips--CPU, 855 MB set and network interface components (more chips here as well as connectors.) There may be many technologies involved but if it looks, talks and smells like a chip set, it is a chip set despite what a marketing department might have you believe.
My hubris is well intact, not being an Intel afficianado I oversimplified a bit after checking out Intel, Toms Hardware and 80211-planet. So I did do my fact checking, but admit to being hertofore caught adjusting my package in public.
All in all though, the basic analysis still holds even if I wasn't painfully correct on identifying the processor. 8)
For clarification:
In the computer world, the definition of "chipset" does not include the CPU. These days a chipset normally includes a memory controller, a clock, a PCI bridge, an ethernet controller, a USB controller, a DMA controller, an IDE controller or two, etc. Chipsets may include graphics and sound controllers as well. Things they don't include are CPU, memory (except for a bit of non-volatile memory for things like BIOS settings), and anything on a card (PCI, ISA, PCMCIA, AGP, etc).
In the case of the Centrino, the chipset is the Intel 855PM or 855GM. The CPU is the Pentium-M. The wireless component is handled by the Intel Pro/Wireless 2100 Network Connection, which resides on a Mini-PCI card. Even though a computer (including CPU, graphics card, SCSI card, etc) might look to you like a bit set of chips, the word "chipset" has a very specific meaning. This isn't some term that Intel marketing foisted on the world, it's a very real thing.
And if you're going to argue that "chip set" is different than "chipset"...don't.
For a desktop, you'd just run the mobo at the top clockspeed most of the time, unless you're conscious of power consumption. But in portables (and perhaps restricted desktop enclosures like iMacs and Cubes) you might be able to adjust the clockspeed to the heat and power requirements of the time.
This puts the arguments about the power consumption & heat output of the 970 in a different light. Perhaps the power consumption of an actual 970-based portable would be a broad range of figures, not a single one. If conditions are cool and you're connected to mains power, you could just bump up the clockspeed to the max. But when you're on the road or working in the tropics, you might underclock your PB to get usable performance while keeping power and heat at tolerable levels.