Kuo: 'Apple Car' to use Hyundai's E-GMP platform, GM and PSA partnerships possible

Posted:
in General Discussion edited February 2
Noted TF Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo weighed in on "Apple Car" on Monday, saying Apple will work in close cooperation with Hyundai on an initial model that could lead to new vehicles built in association with General Motors and European manufacturer PSA.

Hyundai E-GMP


In a note to investors, Kuo corroborated recent reports of a potential partnership with Hyundai, saying the first "Apple Car" will be built on that company's E-GMP electric vehicle platform. Hyundai Mobis is taking the lead in component design and production, while Hyundai subsidiary Kia will handle production in the U.S.

Unveiled in December, E-GMP is a dedicated battery electric vehicle (BEV) platform that consists of up to two motors, five-link rear suspension, integrated drive axle, battery cells, charging system and other rolling chassis components. According to the company, the system has a maximum range of about 310 miles on a full charge and be charged up to 80% within 18 minutes. Acceleration for a "high performance" configuration is quoted at 0-60 mph in less than 3.5 seconds, with a speed ceiling of 160 mph.

Hyundai intends to use E-GMP as a foundation for a variety of models set to debut under both its flagship and Kia brands this year.

Like past rumors, Kuo believes Apple will farm out parts manufacturing and assembly to established automakers. EVs contain about 40 to 50 times more parts than a smartphone, the analyst points out, suggesting Apple will need to rely on existing automaker resources if it hopes to create a functional car on time. The tech giant will not be able to build out its own automotive supply chain -- as it has done for devices like iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch -- without incurring significant delays.

"Apple's deep collaboration with current automakers (Hyundai Group, GM, and PSA) who have extensive development, production, and qualification experience will significantly shorten the Apple Car development time and create a time-to-market advantage," Kuo writes. "We believe that Apple will leverage current automakers' resources and focus on self-driving hardware and software, semiconductors, battery-related technologies, form factor and internal space designs, innovative user experience, and the integration with Apple's existing ecosystem."

Given a longer development lead time, higher validation requirements, more complex supply chain and "very different" sales and after-sales service, Kuo does not anticipate a so-called "Apple Car" to hit roads until 2025 at the earliest. That date is still considered aggressive for a tech company making its first foray into a new industry.

Apple will likely market the vehicle as a "very high-end" model, or "significantly higher" than a standard electric vehicle.

If the first "Apple Car" proves successful, Apple could court regional partners in GM and PSA, the latter of which produces cars under a variety of marques including Peugeot, Citron, and Opel.

Kuo throws cold water on rumblings that longtime manufacturing partner Hon Hai, which is entering the EV fray with its MIH platform, will secure "Apple Car" assembly or casing orders. Pan-International, Eson, Long Time Tech and G-Tech are also unlikely to enter the supply chain, the analyst says.

Kuo's predictions arrive amid a flurry of "Apple Car" gossip. In early January, Hyundai confirmed -- but subsequently walked back -- reports that it was in negotiations to produce Apple's long-rumored automotive project. Most recently, a report last week claims executives at the South Korean automaker are deliberating whether a collaboration with the world's largest tech company would be good for business.

"It is not like working with Apple would always produce great results," an unnamed executive told Reuters last week. "Apple is the boss. They do their marketing, they do their products, they do their brand. Hyundai is also the boss. That does not really work."
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 73
    Kia... pssshhh! Had higher expectations from Apple... by 2025 Tesla model z will fly... lmao 
    pulseimagesseanjlkruppJWSCwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 73
    Kia and GM doesn’t inspire quality. 
    caladanianrob53lkruppJWSCwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 73
    If so, Apple is treating a car like a phone; get the screen from Samsung, the cellular modem from Qualcomm, etc.

    In this case you’re not really getting an Apple Car, but a branded Kia with CarOS.

    I’m not saying this leads to a bad product at all, but it doesn’t make me excited for the brand and have respect for building a car company from the ground up, like Tesla has been doing. They’ve created their own factories, their own production tech and processes, their own battery tech, chips and software. 

    Feels like Apple tried to do this but failed and are now going for a different strategy, which is completely dull and uninspiring.

    That said - rumors! We don’t know anything for sure yet. 
    edited February 2 dk49rcfacaladanianllamarob53pulseimagesJWSC
  • Reply 4 of 73
    Prior to the new M1 Macs, there was little functional differents between a Mac and a PC. What really made the difference was external design and Mac OS? Apple's defining difference in the computer market was user experience. How different is that from what they are rumored to do for cars? Most people only care about what they can touch, see and feel. Only geeks and gear heads are going to care about performance specs. And cars are worse than computers. With computers, users will often hit the peak the performance of there computers. I have never driven faster than my car go.
    edited February 2 randominternetpersoncornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 73
    mrrmrr Posts: 68member
    I don’t know. It doesn’t sound like Apple to slap a body and some tech on top of someone else’s platform. 
    dk49JWSCwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 73
    Although I'm not a fan of Hyundai or Kia, they are in the end just a manufacturer that has to make a car according to Apple's requirements. But it's likely that Apple will have less control over hardware and design
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 73
    dk49dk49 Posts: 185member
    There were rumors earlier that Apple will be using a novel battery tech it developed in house. But if they use Hyundai's platform, they will also use Hyundai's battery tech? This doesn't make sense, unless the platform allows swapping of the batteries. 
    JWSCwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 73
    byronlbyronl Posts: 187member
    310 miles?? 0-60 in 3.5?? how the f are they supposed to compete with tesla? they should just buy lucid already, who also has a factory and is really close to production of their luxury product.
    edited February 2 JWSCcornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 73
    hentaiboyhentaiboy Posts: 1,245member
    Citroen not Citron
    qwerty52rcfallamacornchip
  • Reply 10 of 73
    rezwitsrezwits Posts: 762member
    Safe Self Driving will be the KEY SELLING point.

    Oh and they are not going to do everything on their own from day 1.
    Member the ole Mac? and that took them 30+ years to "almost" do everything in house/by themselves.

    I think Apple has learned from the past.

    Laters...
    cornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 73
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    Kia and GM doesn’t inspire quality. 
    It’s not that these companies don’t know how to make things, but they have target markets and target price points in mind, the the resulting quality is a consequence thereof.

    Apple will have different segments and price points in mind, and correspondingly can make other design choices. The core platforms of major car companies are all decent quality these days.

    Times change, China is also no longer the country’s famous for cheap plastic crap.

    Should Apple have a breakthrough in autonomouss driving, other things matter anyway. While a driver’s car must handle, corner, drift; an autonomous vehicle must allow passengers to enjoy tea and champagne without being slung around the seat benches.

    Apple’s first cars likely won’t be fully autonomous, unless they can surprise the world with a killer system that others don’t have, but given where this journey is heading, a BMW M3 won’t be the inspiration for Apple, more likely a luxurious Minivan with amenities: sound system, entertainment, etc.

    it’s going to be fun to see how Apple thinks it can be “10 times better” (if they stick to Jobs’ credo for entering a new market) than everyone else competing in that field…
    randominternetpersonthtcornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 73
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,819member
    Kuo writes. "We believe that Apple will leverage current automakers' resources and focus on self-driving hardware and software, semiconductors, battery-related technologies, form factor and internal space designs, innovative user experience, and the integration with Apple's existing ecosystem."

    This makes the most sense. I never understood the idea that Apple would go it alone. It would be silly for Apple to reinvent the wheel, (and the suspension, and the door locks, and the wiper blades, and the...). This would let Apple do what Apple does best, and let a car company do the mundane stuff that they do best.
    caladanianlongpathrandominternetpersoncoolfactorStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 73
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,819member
    Unveiled in December, E-GMP is a dedicated battery electric vehicle (BEV) platform that consists of up to two motors, five-link rear suspension, integrated drive axle, battery cells, charging system and other rolling chassis components. According to the company, the system has a maximum range of about 310 miles on a full charge and be charged up to 80% within 18 minutes. Acceleration for a "high performance" configuration is quoted at 0-60 mph in less than 3.5 seconds, with a speed ceiling of 160 mph.
    Actually I found this to be the most exciting part of the article. the specs on the E-GMP are really good. Mind you I suspect the Apple version will be WAY out of my price range, but I'll be interested in the Hyundai or Kia version. 

    longpathrandominternetpersoncornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 73
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    mrr said:
    I don’t know. It doesn’t sound like Apple to slap a body and some tech on top of someone else’s platform. 
    In the Auto industry, platform is like the CPU is in the computer industry. Apple built for many years successfully computers with another company’s CPU; they can build cars, with another company’s platform.

    Parts sharing is a major thing in the auto industry: anything from wheels to suspension components, transmissions, ECUs, etc. are made by companies that don’t make their own cars for a variety of companies that do.

    Even the parts that are made by the car company itself, are shared amongst many models or even brands.

    Similarly, platforms are very versatile: same platform was used for Golf, R32, Jetta, Audi A3, Audi TT, some Volkswagen delivery vans, and some mini SUV.

    So the choice of a platform says relatively little about the car to be expected.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 73
    My hope has long been that Apple would use more corrosion resistant materials in any car they ever produce, and the hot rolled steel mentioned in the battery structure portion of the article doesn’t inspire confidence in New England dwelling me.

    One of the key selling points, to me, regarding obvious competitor, Tesla, is their use of aluminum in their S3XY line and their use of 30X stainless in their upcoming pickup. I’ve lost too many fun and mechanically viable vehicles to salt rot/metal cancer for this to be a small issue.
    DAalsethn2itivguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 73
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,031member
    byronl said:
    310 miles?? 0-60 in 3.5?? how the f are they supposed to compete with tesla? they should just buy lucid already, who also has a factory and is really close to production of their luxury product
    The average person drives 30 miles per day, and couldn't care less about 0-60 times.  

    And you're high if you think buying Lucid is a good idea. Lucid has not mass-produced a single car in its entire existence. Might as well have proposed that Apple buy Nikola.
    edited February 2 tmaymike1watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 73
    The new BEV platforms are nicknamed “skateboards” because they are a flat platform with 4 wheels, battery and motors upon which almost any style of vehicle can be built. Apple doesn’t want to design a new platform from scratch. Though they could probably substitute a unique battery technology into the structure Hyundai designed. What will make this unique will be the exterior and interior design and technology integration. Apple doesn’t want to be in the business of designing and operating assembly lines. Look at how long it has taken Tesla to get the basics of car manufacturing (ie panel gaps/alignment) up to industry standards. Apple will design the car. Hyundai will build it. Hyundai also builds upscale models in its Genesis line, so for the snobs out there who equate an Apple car built by Hyundai to a Kia, you are off base. Working with Hyundai is a good and logical starting point that offers Apple speed and quality and allows Apple to focus on design and tech and not nuts and bolts.
    longpathrandominternetpersonentropysgregoriusmwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 73
    AI_liasAI_lias Posts: 410member
    Auto reliability ratings are not what they used to be. Buick scores consistently high, while Honda slipped. I think Toyota is still at the top. I'm a Honda man, but I think Hyundai cars are good, when I had to rent one, and I think they're reliable also. You have to think about Honda and Toyota, they might cost too much for Apple to partner with, wiping out percentages of profits. Who knows...
    gregoriusm
  • Reply 19 of 73
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,429member
    longpath said:
    My hope has long been that Apple would use more corrosion resistant materials in any car they ever produce...
    Had Jony still been involved I can just imagine the rollout.

    Jony Ive:  "Each car is beautifully and exquisitely individually milled from a solid block of Titanium..."   ;)
    edited February 2 longpathwatto_cobraJWSC
  • Reply 20 of 73
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,429member
    I still suspect all four wheels will turn and the car will be bi-direction as will be the seats as it will be aimed at the urban rental market for Apple ecosystem users only.
    n2itivguywatto_cobra
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