Kuo: 'Apple Car' to use Hyundai's E-GMP platform, GM and PSA partnerships possible

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 73
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 2,737member
    I like the idea of GM. I doubt GM execs would have the brand insecurity that Hyundai apparently has. We like our Chevy Bolt, although it's becoming dated. I've also thought Cadillac has done a pretty good job for the last 20 years or so. Seems unlikely, though. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 73
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,186member
    DAalseth said:
    Kuo writes. "We believe that Apple will leverage current automakers' resources and focus on self-driving hardware and software, semiconductors, battery-related technologies, form factor and internal space designs, innovative user experience, and the integration with Apple's existing ecosystem."

    This makes the most sense. I never understood the idea that Apple would go it alone. It would be silly for Apple to reinvent the wheel, (and the suspension, and the door locks, and the wiper blades, and the...). This would let Apple do what Apple does best, and let a car company do the mundane stuff that they do best.
    Oh no.  Just no.  Using the E-GMP platform screams “ROKR” loudly.  I was hoping that Apple would revisit the whole concept of the automobile.  But this is too incremental, just too like everyone else is doing.

    And then there’s Tesla to contend with, which has superior batteries and motors and many millions of miles of autonomous driving data to work with.  Even then, is autonomous driving what everyone really wants?  Is that going to sell cars?  Or is it the thrill of putting the pedal to the metal?

    Han Solo - “I’ve got a bad feeling about this.”
    edited February 2021 byronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 73
    lkrupp said:
    Why would I pay a VERY  premium price for a Hyundai chassis with an Apple logo on it?
    Because people do this already when they buy a Porsche based on a VW Plattform.
    StrangeDaysfastasleepRayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 73
    hentaiboy said:
    Citroen not Citron
    Actually, it is Citroën ;-)
    Rayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 73
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 1,914member
    If so, Apple is treating a car like a phone; get the screen from Samsung, the cellular modem from Qualcomm, etc.

    That said - rumors! We don’t know anything for sure yet. 

    Just because Apple buys certain components from third-party supplies doesn't mean that they aren't involved in the design and implementation of those parts to Apple's high standards. An iPhone is not just a collection of third-party components slapped together. Never was, never will be. Nor will an Apple Car just be an "Apple-branded" car.
    roundaboutnowStrangeDaysrandominternetpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 73
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 1,914member

    DAalseth said:
    Kuo writes. "We believe that Apple will leverage current automakers' resources and focus on self-driving hardware and software, semiconductors, battery-related technologies, form factor and internal space designs, innovative user experience, and the integration with Apple's existing ecosystem."

    This makes the most sense. I never understood the idea that Apple would go it alone. It would be silly for Apple to reinvent the wheel, (and the suspension, and the door locks, and the wiper blades, and the...). This would let Apple do what Apple does best, and let a car company do the mundane stuff that they do best.

    Exactly, just like Apple didn't invent mobile phones, but took an established product and made a much (MUCH!) better version. The first iPhone may not have been the best "phone" on the market, but it was wrapped in stellar goodness that that competition couid not match for years. I see the car being the same... a car wrapped in Apple's magic user experience.
    roundaboutnowgregoriusmwatto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 73
    1348513485 Posts: 239member
    hentaiboy said:
    Citroen not Citron
    Or Citronella...in which case the car will suck but will have a delightful scent and keep mosquitos away.
    edited February 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 73
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,911member
    rcfa said:
    Kia and GM doesn’t inspire quality. 
    It’s not that these companies don’t know how to make things, but they have target markets and target price points in mind, the the resulting quality is a consequence thereof.

    Apple will have different segments and price points in mind, and correspondingly can make other design choices. The core platforms of major car companies are all decent quality these days.

    Times change, China is also no longer the country’s famous for cheap plastic crap.

    Should Apple have a breakthrough in autonomouss driving, other things matter anyway. While a driver’s car must handle, corner, drift; an autonomous vehicle must allow passengers to enjoy tea and champagne without being slung around the seat benches.

    Apple’s first cars likely won’t be fully autonomous, unless they can surprise the world with a killer system that others don’t have, but given where this journey is heading, a BMW M3 won’t be the inspiration for Apple, more likely a luxurious Minivan with amenities: sound system, entertainment, etc.

    it’s going to be fun to see how Apple thinks it can be “10 times better” (if they stick to Jobs’ credo for entering a new market) than everyone else competing in that field…
    Thank you!


    rcfa said:
    mrr said:
    I don’t know. It doesn’t sound like Apple to slap a body and some tech on top of someone else’s platform. 
    In the Auto industry, platform is like the CPU is in the computer industry. Apple built for many years successfully computers with another company’s CPU; they can build cars, with another company’s platform.

    Parts sharing is a major thing in the auto industry: anything from wheels to suspension components, transmissions, ECUs, etc. are made by companies that don’t make their own cars for a variety of companies that do.

    Even the parts that are made by the car company itself, are shared amongst many models or even brands.

    Similarly, platforms are very versatile: same platform was used for Golf, R32, Jetta, Audi A3, Audi TT, some Volkswagen delivery vans, and some mini SUV.

    So the choice of a platform says relatively little about the car to be expected.
    Thank you!

    byronl said:
    310 miles?? 0-60 in 3.5?? how the f are they supposed to compete with tesla? they should just buy lucid already, who also has a factory and is really close to production of their luxury product.
    LOL.  0-60 in under 4 seconds is way more performance than anyone needs.  Are we expecting Joe Commuter to compete in F1 races now?
    right. I expect Apple to treat performance in cars a lot like they treat performance in phones; “It works great. Thwart more do you need to know?”

    lkrupp said:
    Why would I pay a VERY  premium price for a Hyundai chassis with an Apple logo on it?
    Dude. Not what’s going to happen at all.

    edited February 2021 roundaboutnowfastasleeprandominternetpersonRayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 73
    1348513485 Posts: 239member
    lkrupp said:
    Why would I pay a VERY  premium price for a Hyundai chassis with an Apple logo on it?
    If Kuo (eye roll) and others are to be believed, just because of the delightfully new HUD and other such things. And when Kuo mentions the tens of thousands more parts in a car vs. phone, he's demonstrating a serious lack of understanding of modern EVs and production methods Apple would use. This isn't a Kia with Apple on top, it's a brand new car from the wheels up.

    Apple just hired the chassis designer from Porsche--does that happen if they're just going to build a Kia with Apple doodads?
    edited February 2021 cornchiproundaboutnowfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 73
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,605member
    Just bought a new Santa Fe highlander. Very well built, good materials. All the driving, entertainment and safety fruit, I feel like I am in a fighter cockpit.  it drives well for a mid size SUV, but not like a fighter obviously.
    edited February 2021
  • Reply 51 of 73
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,208member
    Kia and GM doesn’t inspire quality. 
    And Foxconn makes devices for other brands. Point? It's Apple's design that makes its products special, not the contract manufacturer. 
    roundaboutnowfastasleepRayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 73
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,208member

    If so, Apple is treating a car like a phone; get the screen from Samsung, the cellular modem from Qualcomm, etc.

    In this case you’re not really getting an Apple Car, but a branded Kia with CarOS.

    I’m not saying this leads to a bad product at all, but it doesn’t make me excited for the brand and have respect for building a car company from the ground up, like Tesla has been doing. They’ve created their own factories, their own production tech and processes, their own battery tech, chips and software. 

    Feels like Apple tried to do this but failed and are now going for a different strategy, which is completely dull and uninspiring.

    That said - rumors! We don’t know anything for sure yet. 
    Entirely wrong take. Are you buying a Foxconn phone w/ iOS, or are you buying an iPhone? Don't quit your day job...
    edited February 2021 roundaboutnowfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 73
    Noted TF Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo weighed in on "Apple Car" on Monday, saying Apple will work in close cooperation with Hyundai on an initial model that could lead to new vehicles built in association with General Motors and European manufacturer PSA.

    Hyundai E-GMP


    In a note to investors, Kuo corroborated recent reports of a potential partnership with Hyundai, saying the first "Apple Car" will be built on that company's E-GMP electric vehicle platform. Hyundai Mobis is taking the lead in component design and production, while Hyundai subsidiary Kia will handle production in the U.S.

    Unveiled in December, E-GMP is a dedicated battery electric vehicle (BEV) platform that consists of up to two motors, five-link rear suspension, integrated drive axle, battery cells, charging system and other rolling chassis components. According to the company, the system has a maximum range of about 310 miles on a full charge and be charged up to 80% within 18 minutes. Acceleration for a "high performance" configuration is quoted at 0-60 mph in less than 3.5 seconds, with a speed ceiling of 160 mph.

    Hyundai intends to use E-GMP as a foundation for a variety of models set to debut under both its flagship and Kia brands this year.

    ...
    The generic or universal EV platform concept seems to be the way things are going:
    https://www.automotive-iq.com/chassis-systems/articles/top-five-global-ev-platforms

    Even Foxconn wants in: 
    https://www.foxconn.com/en-us/mih-ev-open-platform

    Also, the fact that it is not just Hyundai/Kia being mentioned here, but GM and PSA is significant (yes, I know still just a rumor). Add to this any number of specialist component suppliers--maybe even some secret component design/source that Apple might have up its sleeve, then include Apple QC oversight, and there could be quite a thing here.
    edited February 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 73
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,208member
    If so, Apple is treating a car like a phone; get the screen from Samsung, the cellular modem from Qualcomm, etc.

    That said - rumors! We don’t know anything for sure yet. 

    Just because Apple buys certain components from third-party supplies doesn't mean that they aren't involved in the design and implementation of those parts to Apple's high standards. An iPhone is not just a collection of third-party components slapped together. Never was, never will be. Nor will an Apple Car just be an "Apple-branded" car.
    This guy gets it. Take that "screen from Samsung" -- Samsung manufactured it, but Apple designed it unique for iPhone. Why people struggle with this I dunno.
    roundaboutnowwatto_cobraJWSC
  • Reply 55 of 73
    Kia and GM doesn’t inspire quality. 
    And Foxconn makes devices for other brands. Point? It's Apple's design that makes its products special, not the contract manufacturer. 
    It's amazing how many commenters are missing this point. 
    rcomeaufastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 73
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,363member
    lkrupp said:
    Why would I pay a VERY  premium price for a Hyundai chassis with an Apple logo on it?
    You shouldn't. But such a product does not exist, and never will do; the actual product will be a lot more than a logo on a pre-existing car.  What that is and whether it's worth its price-tag is something yet to be seen, so in the meatime please don't ask stupid questions.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 57 of 73
    byronlbyronl Posts: 246member
    flydog said:
    byronl said:
    310 miles?? 0-60 in 3.5?? how the f are they supposed to compete with tesla? they should just buy lucid already, who also has a factory and is really close to production of their luxury product
    The average person drives 30 miles per day, and couldn't care less about 0-60 times.  

    And you're high if you think buying Lucid is a good idea. Lucid has not mass-produced a single car in its entire existence. Might as well have proposed that Apple buy Nikola.
    This car will not be intended for the average person, “very high-end”.

    Also, that’s a completely false comparison. Nikola has no tech. No powertrain, nothing. They only got some 3d renders and a car sliding on a slope. And it’s ram by clowns.

    Lucid is ran by automotive veterans, they have a great, scalable factory and are working hard to come closer to final production. they have been making the powertrains for formula e for years. They are on track to begin production of the Air this spring. They got great technologies and a beautiful luxury product. How does that compare to Nikola???? it doesn’t! your comparison is irrelevant. also, lucid’s powertrain is a lot better than Hyundai’s.
  • Reply 58 of 73
    byronlbyronl Posts: 246member
    byronl said:
    310 miles?? 0-60 in 3.5?? how the f are they supposed to compete with tesla? they
     should just buy lucid already, who also has a factory and is really close to production of their luxury product.
    LOL.  0-60 in under 4 seconds is way more performance than anyone needs.  Are we expecting Joe Commuter to compete in F1 races now?
    well they wouldn’t come out with a car that’s worse than tesla’s in every way... (strictly talking about specs, i know the apple car will be beautiful and luxurious and will have a great experience and blah blah blah). also, what about the range??? 310 is really average. tesla and lucid will soon have cars with ~520 miles... a “very high end” ev cant have the range of a 40-50k ev...
    edited February 2021
  • Reply 59 of 73
    byronlbyronl Posts: 246member
    cornchip said:
    rcfa said:
    Kia and GM doesn’t inspire quality. 
    It’s not that these companies don’t know how to make things, but they have target markets and target price points in mind, the the resulting quality is a consequence thereof.

    Apple will have different segments and price points in mind, and correspondingly can make other design choices. The core platforms of major car companies are all decent quality these days.

    Times change, China is also no longer the country’s famous for cheap plastic crap.

    Should Apple have a breakthrough in autonomouss driving, other things matter anyway. While a driver’s car must handle, corner, drift; an autonomous vehicle must allow passengers to enjoy tea and champagne without being slung around the seat benches.

    Apple’s first cars likely won’t be fully autonomous, unless they can surprise the world with a killer system that others don’t have, but given where this journey is heading, a BMW M3 won’t be the inspiration for Apple, more likely a luxurious Minivan with amenities: sound system, entertainment, etc.

    it’s going to be fun to see how Apple thinks it can be “10 times better” (if they stick to Jobs’ credo for entering a new market) than everyone else competing in that field…
    Thank you!


    rcfa said:
    mrr said:
    I don’t know. It doesn’t sound like Apple to slap a body and some tech on top of someone else’s platform. 
    In the Auto industry, platform is like the CPU is in the computer industry. Apple built for many years successfully computers with another company’s CPU; they can build cars, with another company’s platform.

    Parts sharing is a major thing in the auto industry: anything from wheels to suspension components, transmissions, ECUs, etc. are made by companies that don’t make their own cars for a variety of companies that do.

    Even the parts that are made by the car company itself, are shared amongst many models or even brands.

    Similarly, platforms are very versatile: same platform was used for Golf, R32, Jetta, Audi A3, Audi TT, some Volkswagen delivery vans, and some mini SUV.

    So the choice of a platform says relatively little about the car to be expected.
    Thank you!

    byronl said:
    310 miles?? 0-60 in 3.5?? how the f are they supposed to compete with tesla? they should just buy lucid already, who also has a factory and is really close to production of their luxury product.
    LOL.  0-60 in under 4 seconds is way more performance than anyone needs.  Are we expecting Joe Commuter to compete in F1 races now?
    right. I expect Apple to treat performance in cars a lot like they treat performance in phones; “It works great. Thwart more do you need to know?”

    lkrupp said:
    Why would I pay a VERY  premium price for a Hyundai chassis with an Apple logo on it?
    Dude. Not what’s going to happen at all.

    i’m not only talking about the performance, but the range??? 40-50k ev’s have 310 miles of range. a “very high end”  ev cant have that... 
  • Reply 60 of 73
    emcnair said:
    Prior to the new M1 Macs, there was little functional differents between a Mac and a PC. What really made the difference was external design and Mac OS? Apple's defining difference in the computer market was user experience. How different is that from what they are rumored to do for cars? Most people only care about what they can touch, see and feel. Only geeks and gear heads are going to care about performance specs. And cars are worse than computers. With computers, users will often hit the peak the performance of there computers. I have never driven faster than my car go.
    Actually, when Apple made beige boxes that looked like a PC with MacOS running they almost went under. Only when they looked at all aspects of design (the chassis, motherboard design, keyboard, mouse etc...) did they get back to being unique and able to charge a premium for it (and the Intel part was unimportant). If all they are going to to is re-skin a Kia and have some Apple software in the dash screen, they are going to make the beige box mistake. No one is going to pay a premium for a re-skinned Kia.
    watto_cobra
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