Don't expect the 'Apple Car' to have a steering wheel, analyst says

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 44
    My iPhone has physical buttons, a switch, and is very often connected to the wall by a rubber cord.  This guy obviously isn't paying attention.
    JWSCwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 44
    mpantonempantone Posts: 1,931member
    There will not be cars without steering wheels for a very long time. The technology is not close to making this a reasonable option.
    Incorrect.

    There is already precedence.

    The Waymo Firefly "bubble car" employed a joystick like a fighter aircraft. This autonomous vehicle test fleet was retired a couple of years ago but there was never a traditional steering wheel.

    Note that people have been driving automobiles with gamepad stick controls in videogames for decades. And that doesn't even begin to touch the aircraft industry.

    Joysticks were good enough for Chuck Yeager. They're good enough for Waymo. They've been good enough for 30+ years of videogamers (both console and arcade).

    They'll be good enough for the general public.
    edited February 2021 slprescott
  • Reply 23 of 44
    mpantonempantone Posts: 1,931member
    DoomFreak said:
    I would not want this car, personally.  I see it as a huge liability.
    Autonomous vehicle testing has been going on for many years on public roads, not just in the USA but in other countries.

    Here in Silicon Valley there are probably 30+ companies with autonomous test vehicles on the roads of western Santa Clara County (Mountain View, Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, Cupertino, Los Altos). Even the big traditional auto manufacturers have R&D teams in this area.

    The autonomous vehicles even in the current test status are safer than teenaged drivers. Those kids are far more scary.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 44
    If it’s using some alternate controller, such as a joystick, fine; but if it’s just a posh robotoxi, as seems to be the implication, I fail to see this competing with any established BEVs. Such a design is a corporate or industrial capital investment, not a consumer product.
  • Reply 25 of 44
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    This is an excellent example of why you should never listen to analysts -- unless you want to know what analysts and other fools are saying.
  • Reply 26 of 44
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    dk49 said:
    Technical and legal challenges aside, a car without a steering wheel will be a bit boring for many people like me who enjoy driving. While I am all for autonomous driving, and I think it's really cool, I wouldn't want to use it all the time. Sometimes you just want to enjoy the pleasure of driving. It gives you a sense of excitement and adrenaline rush. Though I am sure there will be enough items in the Apple car to keep me entertained and busy, but I would still like to have the option to drive it sometimes. 

    It wasn't long ago that people said the same about 4 speeds (now 6 speeds).   Actually i still prefer driving them -- except, unless I spend a fortune on a specialty car or antique, I can't.
  • Reply 27 of 44
    M68000M68000 Posts: 511member
    Ha Ha Ha ...  “don’t expect that Apple car to have a steering wheel”.  LOL..  I guess it won’t need any human beings in it either.  Ha Ha.   Anybody remember the movie Total Recall ? I think they had some robot taxi called a “Johnny cab” with a stupid talking robot driver..  so THIS is the future LOL.. as somebody who enjoys driving I will say NO THANKS. (I also enjoy cars that have real exhaust notes\sounds,   But this is going away with the Apple car and other new vehicles,  sadly.) Cars will just be bland computerized vehicles connected to internet and who knows what the privacy concerns will bring and location and data sharing.  Absolutely scary.
    edited February 2021
  • Reply 28 of 44
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,073member
    bill42 said:
    You guys are all missing the point I think.

    Of course the $50,000 Apple Car won't come with a steering wheel. To use it, you will have to buy the separate Apple Steering Wheel for $27,999. 
    Yes, that is expensive, but wait until you see how the solid aluminum wheel was forged out of a giant disk of solid metal, before the rare white walnut inlays were set in place!
    The mythical Apple Car will be more like $150,000 if it shows up.    you want wheels with that car - It's only a $5,000 per wheel option.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 29 of 44
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,076member
    wood1208 said:
    it's ok to drive a vehicle without steering wheel on the open surface of Mars or Moon but not on earth. I need my control over car.
    Agreed. Electric cars are fun to drive. Took my brother in law’s Tesla for a spin around the block, and it was a blast. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 44
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    k2kw said:
    bill42 said:
    You guys are all missing the point I think.

    Of course the $50,000 Apple Car won't come with a steering wheel. To use it, you will have to buy the separate Apple Steering Wheel for $27,999. 
    Yes, that is expensive, but wait until you see how the solid aluminum wheel was forged out of a giant disk of solid metal, before the rare white walnut inlays were set in place!
    The mythical Apple Car will be more like $150,000 if it shows up.    you want wheels with that car - It's only a $5,000 per wheel option.
    Yeh, I suspect you are right:   they'll end up going head to head against Musk -- which will be an interesting match up.

    But, in the end, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai -- even GM & Ford -- as well as a few (likely Chinese) newbies will be pumping out very nice affordable EVs but without all the high tech like self driving options.

    The last thing I would want to do right now is drop tens of thousands of dollars into a new car that'll soon be (to paraphrase Musk) As Obsolete as a horse

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 44
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,811member
    k2kw said:
    bill42 said:
    You guys are all missing the point I think.

    Of course the $50,000 Apple Car won't come with a steering wheel. To use it, you will have to buy the separate Apple Steering Wheel for $27,999. 
    Yes, that is expensive, but wait until you see how the solid aluminum wheel was forged out of a giant disk of solid metal, before the rare white walnut inlays were set in place!
    The mythical Apple Car will be more like $150,000 if it shows up.    you want wheels with that car - It's only a $5,000 per wheel option.
    Yeh, I suspect you are right:   they'll end up going head to head against Musk -- which will be an interesting match up.

    But, in the end, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai -- even GM & Ford -- as well as a few (likely Chinese) newbies will be pumping out very nice affordable EVs but without all the high tech like self driving options.

    The last thing I would want to do right now is drop tens of thousands of dollars into a new car that'll soon be (to paraphrase Musk) As Obsolete as a horse

    LOL.

    Keep up on current events;

    https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-02-04/news-analysis-federal-auto-safety-agency-left-a-massive-pile-for-biden

    "Maybe you’ve seen this viral TikTok video: A young man lies in the back seat of his Tesla, covered in blankets, as the car cruises down the highway. The driver’s seat is empty. 

    If you haven’t, perhaps you’ve seen another like it. Videos of Tesla owners gleefully abusing the Autopilot system, a set of driver-assist technologies including adaptive cruise control, have become something of a genre across social media over the last few years, even as drivers have been killed while trusting it to operate their vehicles for them.

    Officially, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration discourages such behavior, running a public awareness campaign last fall with the hashtag #YourCarNeedsYou. But its messaging competes with marketing of Tesla itself, which recently said it will begin selling a software package for “Full Self Driving” — a term it has used since 2016 despite objections from critics and the caveats in the company’s own fine print — on a subscription basis starting this quarter. 

    That NHTSA has so far declined to confront Tesla directly on the issue is firmly in character for an agency that took a hands-off approach to a wide range of matters under the Trump administration."

    Elon will certainly see more scrutiny from the Biden administration, just as the Chinese Government has had to scrutinize Tesla;

    "

    Tesla to recall 36,126 Model S and X vehicles in China over touch-screen failures


    • The latest recall represents Tesla’s third in China since the fourth quarter of 2020.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-recall/tesla-to-recall-135000-u-s-vehicles-under-pressure-from-auto-safety-regulators-idUSKBN2A21FC


  • Reply 32 of 44
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,426member
    Without a steering wheel it's impossible to be a major competitor to Tesla or anyone else.

    All fully autonomous cars will have to 'communicate' with their environment. For that to happen, road infrastructure will have to be massively updated. That is actually happening now in some areas but it will be a very long time until everywhere you might want to go is ready for a car without a manual steering option.

    And this is without touching on the legislative angle.

    There is a place right now for vehicles without any kind of manual steering option but that place is in closed circuit environments (and in those environments the goal is getting something done repetitively - not somewhere you'd see a regular free market car because functionality is the key).
  • Reply 33 of 44
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    k2kw said:
    bill42 said:
    You guys are all missing the point I think.

    Of course the $50,000 Apple Car won't come with a steering wheel. To use it, you will have to buy the separate Apple Steering Wheel for $27,999. 
    Yes, that is expensive, but wait until you see how the solid aluminum wheel was forged out of a giant disk of solid metal, before the rare white walnut inlays were set in place!
    The mythical Apple Car will be more like $150,000 if it shows up.    you want wheels with that car - It's only a $5,000 per wheel option.
    Yeh, I suspect you are right:   they'll end up going head to head against Musk -- which will be an interesting match up.

    But, in the end, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai -- even GM & Ford -- as well as a few (likely Chinese) newbies will be pumping out very nice affordable EVs but without all the high tech like self driving options.

    The last thing I would want to do right now is drop tens of thousands of dollars into a new car that'll soon be (to paraphrase Musk) As Obsolete as a horse

    LOL.

    Keep up on current events;

    https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-02-04/news-analysis-federal-auto-safety-agency-left-a-massive-pile-for-biden

    "Maybe you’ve seen this viral TikTok video: A young man lies in the back seat of his Tesla, covered in blankets, as the car cruises down the highway. The driver’s seat is empty. 

    If you haven’t, perhaps you’ve seen another like it. Videos of Tesla owners gleefully abusing the Autopilot system, a set of driver-assist technologies including adaptive cruise control, have become something of a genre across social media over the last few years, even as drivers have been killed while trusting it to operate their vehicles for them.

    Officially, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration discourages such behavior, running a public awareness campaign last fall with the hashtag #YourCarNeedsYou. But its messaging competes with marketing of Tesla itself, which recently said it will begin selling a software package for “Full Self Driving” — a term it has used since 2016 despite objections from critics and the caveats in the company’s own fine print — on a subscription basis starting this quarter. 

    That NHTSA has so far declined to confront Tesla directly on the issue is firmly in character for an agency that took a hands-off approach to a wide range of matters under the Trump administration."

    Elon will certainly see more scrutiny from the Biden administration, just as the Chinese Government has had to scrutinize Tesla;

    "

    Tesla to recall 36,126 Model S and X vehicles in China over touch-screen failures


    • The latest recall represents Tesla’s third in China since the fourth quarter of 2020.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-recall/tesla-to-recall-135000-u-s-vehicles-under-pressure-from-auto-safety-regulators-idUSKBN2A21FC



    OMG !!!! 
    ... they had a recall!   A whole recall!   That never happened to GM!  (They never recalled the Corvair not did Ford recall the Pinto).
  • Reply 34 of 44
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    avon b7 said:
    Without a steering wheel it's impossible to be a major competitor to Tesla or anyone else.

    All fully autonomous cars will have to 'communicate' with their environment. For that to happen, road infrastructure will have to be massively updated. That is actually happening now in some areas but it will be a very long time until everywhere you might want to go is ready for a car without a manual steering option.

    And this is without touching on the legislative angle.

    There is a place right now for vehicles without any kind of manual steering option but that place is in closed circuit environments (and in those environments the goal is getting something done repetitively - not somewhere you'd see a regular free market car because functionality is the key).

    I am thinking that, even with fully mature self driving that there will still be a place for manual controls --- say you want to park the car in your back yard -- how would you tell an automated module to do that?   "Drive up the front yard, around the garden, through the side yard and park under the tree"....

    Or, maybe that is why Musk is working on Neuralink?
    anonconformist
  • Reply 35 of 44
    k2kw said:
    bill42 said:
    You guys are all missing the point I think.

    Of course the $50,000 Apple Car won't come with a steering wheel. To use it, you will have to buy the separate Apple Steering Wheel for $27,999. 
    Yes, that is expensive, but wait until you see how the solid aluminum wheel was forged out of a giant disk of solid metal, before the rare white walnut inlays were set in place!
    The mythical Apple Car will be more like $150,000 if it shows up.    you want wheels with that car - It's only a $5,000 per wheel option.
    Only if you get the Pro model. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 36 of 44
    How about a nice Apple TV remote where the steering wheel used to be. You’ll need to swipe left or right to turn. Or maybe a nice joystick like this guy is using. 



    /s
    avon b7tmay
  • Reply 37 of 44
    Kuyangkoh said:
    Removable steering wheel perhaps? Or dummy inflatable one
    It will be rechargeable, but can’t be used while charging.
  • Reply 38 of 44
    tmay said:
    k2kw said:
    bill42 said:
    You guys are all missing the point I think.

    Of course the $50,000 Apple Car won't come with a steering wheel. To use it, you will have to buy the separate Apple Steering Wheel for $27,999. 
    Yes, that is expensive, but wait until you see how the solid aluminum wheel was forged out of a giant disk of solid metal, before the rare white walnut inlays were set in place!
    The mythical Apple Car will be more like $150,000 if it shows up.    you want wheels with that car - It's only a $5,000 per wheel option.
    Yeh, I suspect you are right:   they'll end up going head to head against Musk -- which will be an interesting match up.

    But, in the end, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai -- even GM & Ford -- as well as a few (likely Chinese) newbies will be pumping out very nice affordable EVs but without all the high tech like self driving options.

    The last thing I would want to do right now is drop tens of thousands of dollars into a new car that'll soon be (to paraphrase Musk) As Obsolete as a horse

    LOL.

    Keep up on current events;

    https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-02-04/news-analysis-federal-auto-safety-agency-left-a-massive-pile-for-biden

    "Maybe you’ve seen this viral TikTok video: A young man lies in the back seat of his Tesla, covered in blankets, as the car cruises down the highway. The driver’s seat is empty. 

    If you haven’t, perhaps you’ve seen another like it. Videos of Tesla owners gleefully abusing the Autopilot system, a set of driver-assist technologies including adaptive cruise control, have become something of a genre across social media over the last few years, even as drivers have been killed while trusting it to operate their vehicles for them.

    Officially, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration discourages such behavior, running a public awareness campaign last fall with the hashtag #YourCarNeedsYou. But its messaging competes with marketing of Tesla itself, which recently said it will begin selling a software package for “Full Self Driving” — a term it has used since 2016 despite objections from critics and the caveats in the company’s own fine print — on a subscription basis starting this quarter. 

    That NHTSA has so far declined to confront Tesla directly on the issue is firmly in character for an agency that took a hands-off approach to a wide range of matters under the Trump administration."

    Elon will certainly see more scrutiny from the Biden administration, just as the Chinese Government has had to scrutinize Tesla;

    "

    Tesla to recall 36,126 Model S and X vehicles in China over touch-screen failures


    • The latest recall represents Tesla’s third in China since the fourth quarter of 2020.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-recall/tesla-to-recall-135000-u-s-vehicles-under-pressure-from-auto-safety-regulators-idUSKBN2A21FC


    Lol. Is this a joke post? Trying to make Tesla’s seem dangerous when they’re by far the safest cars.. cheering on the onerous China CCP and expected biden clampdowns on innovation with further regulation. Embarrassing. 
  • Reply 39 of 44
    irelandireland Posts: 17,793member
    A mass produced Apple Car without a steering wheel in 15+ years away.
  • Reply 40 of 44
    irelandireland Posts: 17,793member
    Kuyangkoh said:
    Removable steering wheel perhaps? Or dummy inflatable one
    Dummy analyst, more like.
    edited February 2021
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