Do I believe Appleinsider or Bloomberg that China is attempting to use every possible means to spy on Americans, steal our data and IP? Mmm. Even if the finer details are in question when I look at their spying on their own citizens, their murderous treatment of Uighurs, the suppression of democracy in Hong Kong etc. and the idea that China is not trying every possible means to subvert and steal from the US is laughable. And it sounds like Biden will continue Trump’s crackdown on them. It is time to take the pain and break off our business relationships with them and bring manufacturing back to the US and let them try become a superpower without stealing from us.
Bloomberg needs to be put in front of a committee hearing and put his to rest. If this did indeed happen, then let's see the evidence. So far, everyone that is mentioned in the article denies it. If Bloomberg is lying, then someone needs to be jailed. This kind of news can destroy a company like SuperMicro.
Why won’t SuperMicro take them to court? They should do it. But for some reason they don’t.
I think this is just a tendencious story, serving as a ground for future negation of something else.
When I use my iPhone to look up “tendencious” it give the meaning in Chinese. Not a commonly used English word! Try look up on your iPhone. Are their trolls are already here?
Edit: And within minutes of Tobian posting there is already someone who found the post “informative”. Mm
I think this is just a tendencious story, serving as a ground for future negation of something else.
When I use my iPhone to look up “tendencious” it give the meaning in Chinese. Not a commonly used English word! Try look up on your iPhone. Are their trolls are already here?
Edit: And within minutes of Tobian posting there is already someone who found the post “informative”. Mm
You seem paranoid no more than me (isn’t your post somehow informative?). and yes, I’m not english native, so I’m using dictionary from time to time. Simply imagine there’s “t” instead of “c” and think again what I wanted to tell. I’m not downplaying the possibility of China spying on others.
I think this is just a tendencious story, serving as a ground for future negation of something else.
When I use my iPhone to look up “tendencious” it give the meaning in Chinese. Not a commonly used English word! Try look up on your iPhone. Are their trolls are already here?
Edit: And within minutes of Tobian posting there is already someone who found the post “informative”. Mm
You seem paranoid no more than me (isn’t your post somehow informative?). and yes, I’m not english native, so I’m using dictionary from time to time. Simply imagine there’s “t” instead of “c” and think again what I wanted to tell. I’m not downplaying the possibility of China spying on others.
Your comment seems tendencious. And just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean China isn’t out to try destroy democracy, violate human rights, steal our intellectual property and murder Uighers and the people of Tibet.
Ignoring this particular story, all governments have the motive to plant bugs against hostile nations. Very few have the opportunity, since all motherboards are made in China. The gov't of China has both motive AND opportunity. It's obvious they also have the means to do so, including Chinese law and political system which permits the CCP to do this.
Does everyone agree that China has the motive, opportunity and means to perform this type of attack? This is my question for everyone here. Answer it. Don't evade the question.
I appreciate that they’ve brought it back up. It was being forgotten that they’d thrown out this unsubstantiated accusation and never followed up on the various debunking.
It’s important that they remind the world that they’ve discredited themselves.
Do I believe Appleinsider or Bloomberg that China is attempting to use every possible means to spy on Americans, steal our data and IP? Mmm. Even if the finer details are in question when I look at their spying on their own citizens, their murderous treatment of Uighurs, the suppression of democracy in Hong Kong etc. and the idea that China is not trying every possible means to subvert and steal from the US is laughable. And it sounds like Biden will continue Trump’s crackdown on them. It is time to take the pain and break off our business relationships with them and bring manufacturing back to the US and let them try become a superpower without stealing from us.
As horrible as china’s human rights violations are currently and have been historically, spy chips would be small potatoes for that government. Not hard to believe...
but is this particular story true? That’s beginning to seem less likely. Hopefully a true investigation is done as this is a serious issue.
So much of the USA has become dependent on a China. Not so great s thing when our moral values are so divergent.
That said, you still can’t publish something - about someone you strongly disagree with - if it isn’t true.
this is a tricky situation as the saying goes “where there’s smoke, there’s fire.” And if the intrusion is real and deep enough, customers would freak out. [tinfoil time...] Could there be an agreement with “big tech” and the US government to deny it while addressing the actual issue? Sure. Especially plausible after Obama’s dinner with big tech years ago. Who knows what that was about. [/tinfoil] However, we must in this country abide by the “innocent until PROVEN guilty mantra - even when it applies to those outside the USA.
Too much is happening in America where accusations get lobbed about and end up trashing lives and careers on a grand and public scale only to find out later that it wasn’t even true. It’s really sad. And it needs to stop. This either needs to be independently and thoroughly looked into or the accusation needs to be dropped. It’s completely backward from how justice is done.
Totally agreed that our corporations need to move away from such close ties and even reliance upon China. We are actually feeding that economy and need to switch that around - or move on in another direction. That includes Apple. Hopefully we find some stronger leadership that isn’t afraid to make that happen across the board - keeping the playing field level for American companies.
but is this particular story true? That’s beginning to seem less likely. Hopefully a true investigation is done as this is a serious issue
That said, you still can’t publish something - about someone you strongly disagree with - if it isn’t true.
we must in this country abide by the “innocent until PROVEN guilty mantra - even when it applies to those outside the USA.
Some of your points are interesting and agreeable. However since the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act (FSIA) of 1976 was passed, it's irrelevant to say that foreign governments are innocent until proven guilty because they can't be taken to court inside the US. There is no concept of innocent until proven guilty because you can't prove them guilty because they can't be taken to court.
There was a small amendment in the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act of 2016 which allowed foreign governments to be sued in US courts if said government committed an act of terror on US soil.
However it's worth noting that the government of China has every right to sue Bloomberg in US courts. In fact, China can also sue the US government if it wants to. I wonder why it doesn't sue Bloomberg this case. Bloomberg blames the PLA from China for the crime, not SuperMicro.
Since terrorism is an exception, I wonder if a physical bug planted in a motherboard could be considered an act of terrorism since it's an obvious tool for supporting future terrorism or war by the Chinese government. In that case SuperMicro could sue the government of China in any US jurisdiction, but we know they won't, because their leaders back in China would be jailed.
To be clear, the original report never said that Apple Servers were impacted by this.
Instead it said that Apple may have been impacted because they were operating off of Amazon's AWS servers which may have been impacted.
So, it's not clear how Tim Cook could state categorically that Apple was not impacted since he had no control over or knowledge of Amazon's servers -- except from what Amazon told him. Hopefully they told him correctly.
This may or may not have happened. But regardless, its 10 years old and time to let it go.
We know who the real, confirmed enemy is: R U S S I A
Russia has not only interfered or attempted to interfere in the last three U.S. elections but successfully conducted the world's largest hack of U.S. government and private servers. In fact, we do not yet know the full extent of that hack and whether or not the servers are still infected. But further, we don't even know whether we will ever be able to clean all the servers since the hack went so deep that it can spread like a cancer throughout the systems used in the U.S.
But yeh, let's ignore and forget about all of that and focus on unproven allegation against China.
Does everyone agree that China has the motive, opportunity and means to perform this type of attack? This is my question for everyone here. Answer it. Don't evade the question.
No
Like Apple and others, China and its manufacturers value their long term profitability over some imagined short term gain. The motive is not there.
Because we hate China does not mean that China hates us.
On the other hand, after multiple serious attacks, we do know that Russia has the motive, opportunity and means to attack and disrupt our nation
Do I believe Appleinsider or Bloomberg that China is attempting to use every possible means to spy on Americans, steal our data and IP? Mmm. Even if the finer details are in question when I look at their spying on their own citizens, their murderous treatment of Uighurs, the suppression of democracy in Hong Kong etc. and the idea that China is not trying every possible means to subvert and steal from the US is laughable. And it sounds like Biden will continue Trump’s crackdown on them. It is time to take the pain and break off our business relationships with them and bring manufacturing back to the US and let them try become a superpower without stealing from us.
Which assumes that the smear campaigns against them were actually true.
I'll wait for factual evidence rather than smear campaigns, and unproven allegations.
I think this is just a tendencious story, serving as a ground for future negation of something else.
When I use my iPhone to look up “tendencious” it give the meaning in Chinese. Not a commonly used English word! Try look up on your iPhone. Are their trolls are already here?
Edit: And within minutes of Tobian posting there is already someone who found the post “informative”. Mm
You seem paranoid no more than me (isn’t your post somehow informative?). and yes, I’m not english native, so I’m using dictionary from time to time. Simply imagine there’s “t” instead of “c” and think again what I wanted to tell. I’m not downplaying the possibility of China spying on others.
Your comment seems tendencious. And just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean China isn’t out to try destroy democracy, violate human rights, steal our intellectual property and murder Uighers and the people of Tibet.
And just because you hate them doesn't prove that they are or have done any of that.
I think this is just a tendencious story, serving as a ground for future negation of something else.
When I use my iPhone to look up “tendencious” it give the meaning in Chinese. Not a commonly used English word! Try look up on your iPhone. Are their trolls are already here?
Edit: And within minutes of Tobian posting there is already someone who found the post “informative”. Mm
You seem paranoid no more than me (isn’t your post somehow informative?). and yes, I’m not english native, so I’m using dictionary from time to time. Simply imagine there’s “t” instead of “c” and think again what I wanted to tell. I’m not downplaying the possibility of China spying on others.
Your comment seems tendencious. And just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean China isn’t out to try destroy democracy, violate human rights, steal our intellectual property and murder Uighers and the people of Tibet.
And just because you hate them doesn't prove that they are or have done any of that.
Oh please. Stop shilling for a murderous regime! Very few in the West believe that!
Comments
Edit: And within minutes of Tobian posting there is already someone who found the post “informative”. Mm
but is this particular story true? That’s beginning to seem less likely. Hopefully a true investigation is done as this is a serious issue.
this is a tricky situation as the saying goes “where there’s smoke, there’s fire.” And if the intrusion is real and deep enough, customers would freak out. [tinfoil time...] Could there be an agreement with “big tech” and the US government to deny it while addressing the actual issue? Sure. Especially plausible after Obama’s dinner with big tech years ago. Who knows what that was about. [/tinfoil] However, we must in this country abide by the “innocent until PROVEN guilty mantra - even when it applies to those outside the USA.
There was a small amendment in the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act of 2016 which allowed foreign governments to be sued in US courts if said government committed an act of terror on US soil.
However it's worth noting that the government of China has every right to sue Bloomberg in US courts. In fact, China can also sue the US government if it wants to. I wonder why it doesn't sue Bloomberg this case. Bloomberg blames the PLA from China for the crime, not SuperMicro.
Since terrorism is an exception, I wonder if a physical bug planted in a motherboard could be considered an act of terrorism since it's an obvious tool for supporting future terrorism or war by the Chinese government. In that case SuperMicro could sue the government of China in any US jurisdiction, but we know they won't, because their leaders back in China would be jailed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index <--
And just because you hate them doesn't prove that they are or have done any of that.