VW chief 'not afraid' of 'Apple Car' entering the market

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware
Apple's entry into the electric vehicle market with the rumored "Apple Car" won't be a problem for VW, its CEO claims, with the well-established car producer "not afraid" of what the Cupertino tech giant can bring to the auto industry.




Apple has long been rumored to have a self-driving electric car in development, and recent reports claim Apple is looking to make it a reality by partnering with an existing car producer. In spite of Apple's size and potential innovation it can introduce to the sector, VW chief executive Herbert Diess doesn't believe Apple will pose a risk to the car producer.

"The car industry is not a typical tech-sector that you could take over at a single stroke," Deiss told Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagzeitung in an interview picked up by Reuters. "Apple will not manage that overnight."

While many rumors have hinted at the different ways the "Apple Car" could differentiate itself from other vehicles, Apple has so far been characteristically tight-lipped about its intentions. Still, Deiss believes the car is on the way, as it is a "logical" progression for Apple to take.

This includes its extensive experience in batteries and power management, software, and hardware design that it can draw on for the vehicle. It also has a considerable amount of resources and a hefty war chest to put the car into production in the future.

Even knowing this, Deiss is unrepentant. "Still, we are not afraid," the chief declared.

Though undaunted by Apple, Deiss previously offered comments welcoming firms like Apple that could disrupt the auto industry. In December, he said "We look forward to new competitors who will certainly accelerate the transformation of our industry and bring in new skills."

At the time, Deiss referred to Apple's "incredible valuation and thus the virtually unlimited access to resources," which "instills a lot of respect in us."

Though his stance is defiant in Apple's potential entry into the car market, VW is still a potential partner for Apple to work with on the car, according to a note to investors at Wedbush. VW was alongside Hyundai as the top two choices of automaker for Apple, but it is also reportedly looking into other avenues as well.

VW has also been linked to PAIL, the Palo Alto to Infinite Loop pilot program for ferrying Apple employees between offices. The project allegedly intended to use Volkswagen's T6 Transporter vans, modified to run on electric instead of gas and to use Apple's self-driving system.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 53
    These statements from VW CEO are very similar to what the CEOs of Nokia, Blackberry and Microsoft said about the iPhone when it was unveiled in 2007. time will tell if VW will be as forgotten as Nokia and Blackberry. 
    dk49badmonkfirelockwilliamlondonlolliverplastico23lkruppionicle
  • Reply 2 of 53
    oberpongo said:
    These statements from VW CEO are very similar to what the CEOs of Nokia, Blackberry and Microsoft said about the iPhone when it was unveiled in 2007. time will tell if VW will be as forgotten as Nokia and Blackberry. 
    It almost seems like he must be aware of the history of similar comments and is just trolling us to watch the reaction.
    retrogustowilliamlondonbageljoey
  • Reply 3 of 53
    oberpongo said:
    These statements from VW CEO are very similar to what the CEOs of Nokia, Blackberry and Microsoft said about the iPhone when it was unveiled in 2007. time will tell if VW will be as forgotten as Nokia and Blackberry. 
    Actually, VW has the best potential to be the best on the market if VW could rule their software issue and could generate a competitive OS system.

    Just imagine, VW could bring out an OS system, which work for VW, Audi, Skoda and other subsidiaries like Apple is doing with iPhone, iPad, Mac, watch etc. 

    This network effect will bring VW to the No. 1. 

    If you sell your VW and buy Audi, your data still exists and you do not have to start from zero because their OS system work for all subsidiaries. 

    In this case, Apple must speed up to make a common agreement with any other OEMs or Magna. 
    Apple has no time and time is ticking. 

    The automotive area is the most conservative sector, where you will never see another Foxconn. 

    Apple will have a difficulty to finde one car maker, who is willing to make cars for Apple. I highly doubt it. 
    elijahg
  • Reply 4 of 53
    dk49dk49 Posts: 156member
    oberpongo said:
    These statements from VW CEO are very similar to what the CEOs of Nokia, Blackberry and Microsoft said about the iPhone when it was unveiled in 2007. time will tell if VW will be as forgotten as Nokia and Blackberry. 
    Actually, VW has the best potential to be the best on the market if VW could rule their software issue and could generate a competitive OS system.

    Just imagine, VW could bring out an OS system, which work for VW, Audi, Skoda and other subsidiaries like Apple is doing with iPhone, iPad, Mac, watch etc. 

    This network effect will bring VW to the No. 1. 

    If you sell your VW and buy Audi, your data still exists and you do not have to start from zero because their OS system work for all subsidiaries. 

    In this case, Apple must speed up to make a common agreement with any other OEMs or Magna. 
    Apple has no time and time is ticking. 

    The automotive area is the most conservative sector, where you will never see another Foxconn. 

    Apple will have a difficulty to finde one car maker, who is willing to make cars for Apple. I highly doubt it. 
    That's the thing. Creating a brand new OS from scratch isn't a joke. It's even more difficult than building a car from scratch. So many companies have tried this and failed. All of the custom OS that you see like Huawei's Harmony OS are just forked versions of Android. The OS ecosystem is so matured and integrated that even Microsoft failed to make a dent in the mobile market and had to eventually close it's mobile plans. And platform (OS) is really everything. Even tech giants like Facebook had to bow down in front of the platform (iOS). That's why Apple and Google are in a very unique and lucrative position in the tech industry, that's unmatched.
    edited February 14 caladanianplastico23longpath
  • Reply 5 of 53
    dk49 said:
    oberpongo said:
    These statements from VW CEO are very similar to what the CEOs of Nokia, Blackberry and Microsoft said about the iPhone when it was unveiled in 2007. time will tell if VW will be as forgotten as Nokia and Blackberry. 
    Actually, VW has the best potential to be the best on the market if VW could rule their software issue and could generate a competitive OS system.

    Just imagine, VW could bring out an OS system, which work for VW, Audi, Skoda and other subsidiaries like Apple is doing with iPhone, iPad, Mac, watch etc. 

    This network effect will bring VW to the No. 1. 

    If you sell your VW and buy Audi, your data still exists and you do not have to start from zero because their OS system work for all subsidiaries. 

    In this case, Apple must speed up to make a common agreement with any other OEMs or Magna. 
    Apple has no time and time is ticking. 

    The automotive area is the most conservative sector, where you will never see another Foxconn. 

    Apple will have a difficulty to finde one car maker, who is willing to make cars for Apple. I highly doubt it. 
    That's the thing. Creating a brand new OS from scratch isn't a joke. It's even more difficult than building a car from scratch. So many companies have tried this and failed. All of the custom OS that you see like Huawei's Harmony OS are just forked versions of Android. The OS ecosystem is so matured and integrated that even Microsoft failed to make a dent in the mobile market and had to eventually close it's mobile plans. And platform (OS) is really everything. Even tech giants like Facebook had to bow down in front of the platform (iOS). That's why Apple and Google are in a very unique and lucrative position in the tech industry, that's unmatched.
    Totally agree with you.
    However, the strategy of OEMs would be to reject Apple as long as Apple gives up. 
    If they are not willing to make Apple cars, Apple would be out of the competition by assuming that Apple will not buy an OEM. 

    As I said, time is running and ticking at the moment. The time is against Apple. 

    I currently work in the automotive area and I cannot imagine that Apple will find one OEM, which is willing to make cars for Apple. 

    The automotive market is a completely different animal and there will be no next Foxconn. 

    I am excited to get some "official" news in the future how Apple would handle this challenge.
  • Reply 6 of 53
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,465member
    sdbryan said:
    oberpongo said:
    These statements from VW CEO are very similar to what the CEOs of Nokia, Blackberry and Microsoft said about the iPhone when it was unveiled in 2007. time will tell if VW will be as forgotten as Nokia and Blackberry. 
    It almost seems like he must be aware of the history of similar comments and is just trolling us to watch the reaction.
    It almost appears if Deiss actually understands the business of auto manufacturing, sales, and service.

    Oh wait. He would know what he is talking about.

    VW Group is one of the three largest auto manufacturing groups in the world, and will ship near 10 million vehicles this year. VW Group has made a very fast correction in their market to BEV, from diesel vehicles, and have the ability to match and exceed Tesla unit sales this year. That isn't what happened with Nokia or Blackberry in the smartphone market.

    Apple has a chance for disruption in mobility, changing the focus of private ownership of cars to public use, and of autonomous vehicles. Pretty much what Waymo is doing, but with 1.6 B existing Apple users for those same vehicles and services. 
    edited February 14
  • Reply 7 of 53
    oberpongo said:
    These statements from VW CEO are very similar to what the CEOs of Nokia, Blackberry and Microsoft said about the iPhone when it was unveiled in 2007. time will tell if VW will be as forgotten as Nokia and Blackberry. 
    Unlike Blackberry, Volkswagen isn't a tiny company with a niche product. And it wasn't the iPhone's 15% market share that killed off Blackberry, Nokia or Windows Phone in the first place: it was Android. Had any of those three just swallowed their pride and adopted Android sooner - which they all wound up doing anyway! - they would have been fine with their share of the other 85%. 

    Also, please note that the only thing that you are able to do this with is the iPhone (even though it is FALSE). Why? Because Apple hasn't allegedly driven anyone out of business with anything else.
    PCs? Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer and Asus are still around. Had record years last year.
    Smartwatches? Samsung, Garmin, FitBit and Fossil are still around.
    Headphones? Sony, Bose, Samsung, JBL etc. still doing great despite competition from AirPods AND Beats.booksApple TV? Roku, Fire TV and - when smart TVs are included - Android TV crush it in market share.
    Apple TV+? Has fewer free signups in a year than Disney+ gets PAID signups in a month.
    Apple Arcade? Even if you argue that Stadia is a failure - due to Google being Google - Nvidia GeForce now is doing good and xCloud is doing great.
    iPad? Samsung sells more of them a year than Apple sells Macs. Despite claims otherwise, Apple has only 35% of the tablet market, and that doesn't even count 2-in-1 Chromebooks - which also outsold MacBooks last year - that people buy to use as tablets. 

    There has never been any evidence of Apple driving anyone out of markets because - apart from smartwatches - Apple never gets anywhere near the market share required to. Again, even with the iPhone, it was ANDROID that got the market share that drove everyone else out of business. Nokia had a 30% market share as late as 2010! But in 2011 when Samsung introduced the Galaxy Note - the device that the iPhone and all other modern smartphones copied - and the LeBron James ad campaign shortly after, it was all over. 
    FoodLoveranantksundarammuthuk_vanalingammike54
  • Reply 8 of 53

    The automotive area is the most conservative sector, where you will never see another Foxconn. 

    Apple will have a difficulty to finde one car maker, who is willing to make cars for Apple. I highly doubt it. 
    Not quite true. There are "white box" car manufacturers. There are plenty of "car models" where the only thing that distinguishes them is the brand sticker. The problem is Apple's terms. 

    1. Apple wants someone with real expertise to help them build a cutting edge car using difficult to get or even custom made components. White box car manufacturers make generic automobiles using standard parts. 

    2. Apple wants to pay their "car partners" the same that they pay their electronics partners: barely enough for them to eke out a profit even under the most ideal circumstances. As I mentioned earlier, that would be fine for Toyota, Kia and the rest if they were allowed to benefit from Apple's technology or marketing: if they could take things from the Apple Car and to use in their own vehicles to compete not so much against Apple but Ford, GM etc. But Apple won't allow that. 

    Apple could find a partner tomorrow if they were willing to either pay more money or share their tech. Otherwise, Apple's only takers will be desperate entities looking for any ray of hope to avoid going out of business. While such entities exist similar to 1. they would be unable to help Apple build the sort of car they want to make anyway.
    edited February 14
  • Reply 9 of 53
    dk49dk49 Posts: 156member
    dk49 said:
    oberpongo said:
    These statements from VW CEO are very similar to what the CEOs of Nokia, Blackberry and Microsoft said about the iPhone when it was unveiled in 2007. time will tell if VW will be as forgotten as Nokia and Blackberry. 
    Actually, VW has the best potential to be the best on the market if VW could rule their software issue and could generate a competitive OS system.

    Just imagine, VW could bring out an OS system, which work for VW, Audi, Skoda and other subsidiaries like Apple is doing with iPhone, iPad, Mac, watch etc. 

    This network effect will bring VW to the No. 1. 

    If you sell your VW and buy Audi, your data still exists and you do not have to start from zero because their OS system work for all subsidiaries. 

    In this case, Apple must speed up to make a common agreement with any other OEMs or Magna. 
    Apple has no time and time is ticking. 

    The automotive area is the most conservative sector, where you will never see another Foxconn. 

    Apple will have a difficulty to finde one car maker, who is willing to make cars for Apple. I highly doubt it. 
    That's the thing. Creating a brand new OS from scratch isn't a joke. It's even more difficult than building a car from scratch. So many companies have tried this and failed. All of the custom OS that you see like Huawei's Harmony OS are just forked versions of Android. The OS ecosystem is so matured and integrated that even Microsoft failed to make a dent in the mobile market and had to eventually close it's mobile plans. And platform (OS) is really everything. Even tech giants like Facebook had to bow down in front of the platform (iOS). That's why Apple and Google are in a very unique and lucrative position in the tech industry, that's unmatched.
    Totally agree with you.
    However, the strategy of OEMs would be to reject Apple as long as Apple gives up. 
    If they are not willing to make Apple cars, Apple would be out of the competition by assuming that Apple will not buy an OEM. 

    As I said, time is running and ticking at the moment. The time is against Apple. 

    I currently work in the automotive area and I cannot imagine that Apple will find one OEM, which is willing to make cars for Apple. 

    The automotive market is a completely different animal and there will be no next Foxconn. 

    I am excited to get some "official" news in the future how Apple would handle this challenge.
    Are saying that OEMs would boycott Apple just so that they can maintain their existing customers? Doesn't make sense! This is business, not a family show where companies care about each other. If any OEM sees money in doing business with Apple, they will do it! Sure, existing car manufacturers might not want to partner because that will dilute their brand image. Though I think someone will eventually do it. Automotive industry is a fierce industry, and not every car company is killing it. And even if no car manufacturer agrees to manufacture for Apple, contract manufacturers like Magna are always there.
    lolliver
  • Reply 10 of 53
    tmay said:
    sdbryan said:
    oberpongo said:
    These statements from VW CEO are very similar to what the CEOs of Nokia, Blackberry and Microsoft said about the iPhone when it was unveiled in 2007. time will tell if VW will be as forgotten as Nokia and Blackberry. 
    It almost seems like he must be aware of the history of similar comments and is just trolling us to watch the reaction.
    It almost appears if Deiss actually understands the business of auto manufacturing, sales, and service.

    Oh wait. He would know what he is talking about.

    VW Group is one of the three largest auto manufacturing groups in the world, and will ship near 10 million vehicles this year. VW Group has made a very fast correction in their market to BEV, from diesel vehicles, and have the ability to match and exceed Tesla unit sales this year. That isn't what happened with Nokia or Blackberry in the smartphone market.

    Apple has a chance for disruption in mobility, changing the focus of private ownership of cars to public use, and of autonomous vehicles. Pretty much what Waymo is doing, but with 1.6 B existing Apple users for those same vehicles and services. 
    Exactly. All Nokia and Blackberry had to do was switch to Android in 2010 or as late as 2011. Instead, Nokia didn't release an Android phone until 2014 (and even then it didn't have Google services). Blackberry didn't release an Android phone until 2015. They were proud and stubborn, especially since they could have sold both Android and Symbian/Windows (Nokia) or BlackberryOS (Blackberry) phones at the same time in order to see which one would stick and then drop the other. Apple - or more accurately Android - killed off Nokia and Blackberry because those companies were mismanaged (to be kind). The companies that Apple is trying to get to partner with them on the Apple Car aren't. If they were mismanaged Apple would have no interest in making an Apple Car with them in the first place. 

    At this rate you should wonder if Apple's best bet wouldn't be to just buy Tesla. The antitrust types shouldn't care: Tesla doesn't sell very many cars and have never turned a profit on automobile sales alone. They can just buy Tesla while leaving SpaceX, the battery stuff, the hyperloop idea and all of the other moonshot ventures with Musk. 
    FoodLover
  • Reply 11 of 53
    dk49 said:
    Are saying that OEMs would boycott Apple just so that they can maintain their existing customers? Doesn't make sense! This is business, not a family show where companies care about each other. If any OEM sees money in doing business with Apple, they will do it! Sure, existing car manufacturers might not want to partner because that will dilute their brand image. Though I think someone will eventually do it. Automotive industry is a fierce industry, and not every car company is killing it. And even if no car manufacturer agrees to manufacture for Apple, contract manufacturers like Magna are always there.
    Not at all. 
    1. It would be collusion, which is very illegal.
    2. They wouldn't boycott Apple just to maintain their existing customers. They would avoid a business relationship that would provide all the benefits to Apple while practically none to the OEMs.

    I will state it again: the car industry is not the electronics industry. While the electronics manufacturing industry has shifted almost entirely to Asia, automobile companies still make most of their cars in their country of origin. That means profit margins, supply chains, economics, labor union issues, environmental regulation issues, local politics and even nationalism/national pride are totally different for the automobile industry than they are for the electronics one. Where it is easy to find a ton of foreign partners willing to put up with Apple's treatment in electronics - which often are only possible because the workers get very low wages AND the foreign partners get significant government subsidies - that doesn't happen in automotives. The only way to get automobile companies on board is to give them money. Lots of it. 

    Another thing: electronics companies are able to operate on low margins to make it up on volume. Remember: this was literally Apple's "defense" against Qualcomm ... we sell 200 million iPhones a year so you should be making plenty of money off us no matter what licensing rate we choose to pay you. Would even 1 million Apple Cars sell a year? Not every car company killing it ... that is all the more reason to avoid arrangements where you have to expend a ton of resources and effort in return for peanuts. As for contract manufacturers ... the issue is that none of them have the expertise required to help build an automonous electric car that is totally reliant on Apple hardware, software and services. You need to have SOME background in AVs, EVs and smart car platforms, including but not limited to some of your own products or patents in the area. Otherwise, Apple would wind up having to R&D, license and build everything from scratch, which would delay things by years and cost a ton of money. Apple was able to take the core of what they accomplished with the iPhone and reuse it for the iPad, Apple TV, Apple Watch and M1 Mac. Imagine how much time and money it would have taken if they had to do all those products separately. 

    Apple will eventually get this done but only when they realize that it is only going to happen when they come around to the carmakers' terms. Of course, when it happens they will spin it as "carmaker X knew that it was either get behind or get left behind" ... and you guys will believe that spin as always (and because the terms will be kept secret). 
    MassiveAttackFoodLover
  • Reply 12 of 53
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,927member
    oberpongo said:
    These statements from VW CEO are very similar to what the CEOs of Nokia, Blackberry and Microsoft said about the iPhone when it was unveiled in 2007. time will tell if VW will be as forgotten as Nokia and Blackberry. 
    That isn't applicable here. Cars are a far more 'open' environment with far more external control over users and dependency on infrastructure. 

    The core features of cars are well established and fully covered by all manufacturers. 

    Anything Apple or anyone else can bring to market will sit above the core functionality. As you move into the self driving capacity, certification will be required and that (in time) will also become a core feature but anyone with certification will also have exactly the same baseline capacity. 

    The differentiation will be in line with what we have now. More features (but non-core) and at a higher price. The higher the price, the smaller the potential market. 

    The article mentions extensive experience in batteries and power management but I haven't seen much evidence of this, much less in the car realm. I can say there are plenty of car manufacturers already shipping battery and power management systems and they aren't sitting still either. Then there are specialist battery makers also developing and bringing new technologies to market. 

    As a new entrant to the car market Apple would have a ton of inconvenients to overcome. They can cut out a niche but in the current market the big players (there are a lot of them too) will hold all the cards. 

    If Apple were to try a different business model that might be different but it would still have an uphill struggle ahead of it. 


    FoodLovermuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 13 of 53
    Apple Car is no threat to VW because it is a service not a product. The Apple Car will cost far too much for the average person to buy, however as a service anyone can afford to have one pull up in front of their home and take them where they want to go in style. Because you called the Apple Car on your iPhone (probably with Siri) it will arrive already set up for you with your play lists loaded and with Apple TV ready to continue playing your movie where you left off and already paired with your iPhone.
    The real threat to VW is that consumers will stop buying automobiles entirely.
    tmayFoodLovermac_dogstevenoz
  • Reply 14 of 53
    In the case of cars, I’d say that Tesla was the disruptor in the automobile space. (You don’t have to like Tesla cars or Elon Musk to see that this is true.) About the only thing that could possibly disrupt automobiles more than Tesla has already done is to have a breakthrough self-driving AI that is orders of magnitude better than what the other manufacturers offer, or some new battery technology that allows charging in minutes rather than hours. I’m not sure that anyone believes that Apple has anything revolutionary ready in these two areas. But I guess we’ll see.
    FoodLoveranantksundaram
  • Reply 15 of 53
    He seems generally smarter, more humble, and more aware than other ICE carmakers on EVs. He’s reached out to Musk a few times as a friendly competitor, has acknowledged past VW missteps and is candid about his efforts to address the resulting challenges (there was a great story in the WSJ a few weeks ago). Also, he doesn’t at all seem to be defensive. 

    And his company does know how to make VWs, Audis, and Porsches... That said, unlike Apple or Tesla, software will be an issue for them, as it will for all incumbent ICE carmakers. 
    GG1muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 16 of 53
    M68000M68000 Posts: 373member
    oberpongo said:
    These statements from VW CEO are very similar to what the CEOs of Nokia, Blackberry and Microsoft said about the iPhone when it was unveiled in 2007. time will tell if VW will be as forgotten as Nokia and Blackberry. 
    So,  your comments are based on the idea that because Apple has a huge hit with the iPhone,  that must mean that Apple will know how to build a great car and apparently current auto manufacturers have no idea at all what they are doing?   I do enjoy my iPhones but does that mean that I want an Apple car?   Not necessarily.  It’s truly amazing to read some of the comments here and elsewhere that imply that only Apple knows how to make great things and that apparently nobody else knows what they are doing.  I have been a fan of Apple computers for many years but do I think that everything in my house or driveway should have an Apple logo on it?  No.
    tmayelijahgFoodLover
  • Reply 17 of 53
    I have four questions.

    1. If Apple is successful, in some measure, at making cars, will Google join the party and follow-up with their own car? (Maybe calling it "Andrive"?)

    2. Would Apple need to create some sort of third party service network, or would it set up its own service shops? Service is important and expensive/profitable.

    3. Would Apple be able to sell its cars in its existing Apple stores? Or online? Even Tesla has faced many legal challenges selling online since most US states have strict laws that cars must be sold through dealerships and not directly to customers. Tesla is still engaged in legal battles trying to get free speech laws to overturn local economic laws which promote local sales retailers. It's not clear Tesla will win.

    4. Will Apple manufacture its cars before they are ordered, like most auto manufacturers do, or will they only manufacture after a customer orders one? Will customers tolerate a 30-day delivery for Apple cars? (Tesla builds your car after your order arrives, and it usually takes 6 weeks to get your car. But Tesla has a generous return policy if you don't like it. Will Apple have a generous return policy?)

    For those who don't know, Samsung tried and failed in the 1990s to make a business of manufacturing cars. Their slogan was "Discover the Difference." They sold 81% of their company to Renault in 2000, although Samsung still has a 19% stake in it, so technically Samsung is still making cars. Here's an actual photo of one of the Samsung branded cars from 1999. The logo is an oval with a small outward notch at the top and bottom, making it look a little bit like a hurricane. You can still buy the cars made by this company, with this logo, although the underlying tech appears to be 100% Renault now. Some of these cars are still sold in Korea and are still branded as "Renault Samsung". https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/tech/2021/01/419_299895.html <--


    firelockgregoriusmelijahgFoodLoverxav3
  • Reply 18 of 53
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,465member
    firelock said:
    In the case of cars, I’d say that Tesla was the disruptor in the automobile space. (You don’t have to like Tesla cars or Elon Musk to see that this is true.) About the only thing that could possibly disrupt automobiles more than Tesla has already done is to have a breakthrough self-driving AI that is orders of magnitude better than what the other manufacturers offer, or some new battery technology that allows charging in minutes rather than hours. I’m not sure that anyone believes that Apple has anything revolutionary ready in these two areas. But I guess we’ll see.
    I would agree with that, except add that Tesla likely won't continue to benefit from that disruption. Tesla is notably poor at building cars, has few models in the pipeline, and as of today, the Model 3 is their bestseller, and frankly, the Model 3 design looks tired.
  • Reply 19 of 53
    firelock said:
    ... is to have a breakthrough self-driving AI that is orders of magnitude better than what the other manufacturers offer,
    It's not the quality of AI that we should speak about. It's the six official levels of autonomy. Tesla is only at level 2. The chief researcher of IIHS says that "it's important to note that none of these vehicles is capable of driving safely on its own..."

    Three car companies are introducing level 3 cars in 2021: Daimler, Honda, & BMW. Note that Tesla isn't even listed there.

    Each of the six levels (five if you don't count level zero) is useful. I think it starts to get fairly helpful at level 3, where you could probably read a book while driving, but level 4 and up is required if you want to be able to be in the back seat while driving.

    In 2019 Tesla promised that they would have level 5 autonomy by the end of 2019. But they still aren't at level 3. I wish someone would hold Musk responsible for breaking this promise.
    tmay
  • Reply 20 of 53
    The fact that he even felt the need to SAY that says something. 
    lolliver
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